Dirty CO2 Fills

[ThePixelGuru]

So I got my 12oz and 3.5oz tanks filled at a store last week (I won't name the store until after this is resolved, but suffice to say it's a large chain). I first noticed a problem when my 3.5oz tank wouldn't work in any of my four markers. Then I went to shoot Autolube through my two 'mags. Neither leaked when first gassed up, but from the first shot both developed a leak which got worse with each subsequent shot. I field stripped both, and when I unscrewed the reg I could see a significant amount of grime in each, more than should be there from the 20-30 shots I put through each.

I went in to the store, and the guy there (different guy than the one who did the fills) confirmed that the 3.5oz tank was empty, but that the pin valve is somehow jammed (can't push it down with a finger). He also confirmed that there is no filtration on their CO2 fill station. They said that there was nothing they could do for me in the store. I've emailed corporate, but they seem to be ignoring me.

So now I've got one tank full of grime, one tank with a jammed valve, and two leaking Automags. 2 tanks + 2 parts kits = about $80 of damage to my equipment. I'm pretty angry with them right now.
:cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

So my question to you all is: anyone ever have anything like this happen? Did you get results by talking to the company, or did they just say you couldn't prove anything? What did/would you say? Thanks for reading, folks.

[neppo1345]

I was going to try and think of something witty to say...but I figured I'll give you a straight answer.

Save the 80 dollars and buy a compressed air tank.

I doubt you need to buy rebuild kits for the mags. Just run some clean air through them with some lube until the gunk clears.

However, in your defense: I'd be pissed too.

[ThePixelGuru]

I've got compressed air, but the only local place that fills it only fills to 3000psi, charges $10 per fill, and doesn't filter. Way more dangerous than unfiltered CO2. Plus I can't afford compressed air for all my markers, and having only one tank would really limit their use as loaners.

I'm not sure if I'll need rebuild kits for the 'mags, though. There was a ridiculous amount of gunk inside, and without a tank to test them I'm not sure if any of the o-rings have been cut.

[onedude36]

bob long makes a filtered fill nipple for compressed air tanks, and there were some oldschool air america filters that could be put in your gun.

im sorry, that sucks. :(

[Cow123]

I recieved a 20oz CO2 tank as a gift. When I got it, it was empty, so I said I was going to the store to get it filled. My buddy told be he got it filled when he was there. I went to the store and got it filled, got home shot about 100 paintballs and then put the tank away. I grabbed the tank about an hour later and it was much lighter. I put some soapy water on the valve and sure enough bubbles were coming from the burst cap. I went to the store and told them about it and they had the nerve to tell me that it was made so the consumer can tighten it when they need to. Of course it says right on the valve that only a qualified air-tech should adjust the burst cap.

That happened at a galayans, now bought out by dick's sporting goods. I went to a dedicated paintball store that was a little farther away and they fixed the leak and filled my tank.

[insixdays777]

Go back to the store and demand to file a liability claim. By law they have to process your request and turn your claim over to their insurance carrier or TPA.

A claims examiner (like myself) will call you and investigate incident and if you are dealing with a decent human being and TPA/ insurance carrier they should/could replace your damaged property i.e tanks, and depending how much work you want to put into it, you could argue for new marker oring kits.

If you have to deal with an anti-customer bunch It will likely take some documents/articles about dirty/unfiltered co2. I am sure some can be found on www.warpig.com. Unless you happen to luck out an get a cool paintball addict claims adjuster like myself who would agree to replace your tanks and buy new oring kits.

you are not going to get anywhere emailing corporate.

I handle liability claims for a LARGE nationwide retailer. We would pay you 80.00 just to go away.

Good luck!

[Tunaman]

CO2 is INHERENTLY dirty. EVERYONE knows that. But...the store would have no control over what the gas supplier puts in the tanks they lease. Just clean them out and get some filters for your gun. They really do work.

[Dewok82]

Definitely get a filter. Several companies make a good inline version that will help keep some of the crud out of your makers.

One thing I've noticed about the big box sporting goods stores (Dick's, Dunham's, etc..) is that their employees generally have NO idea how to fill a co2 tank. I've kept a running tab on what kind of co2 fills I get from them and Dick's is absolutely terrible. They are either way over or way under. It's very frustrating because they take the tanks behind closed doors and you can't see what they're doing. At least at Dunham's I can watch them and make sure I get a a full fill.

Yet another reason to support your local ProShop.

[SR_matt]

CO2 is INHERENTLY dirty. EVERYONE knows that. But...the store would have no control over what the gas supplier puts in the tanks they lease. Just clean them out and get some filters for your gun. They really do work.
how is it inherently dirty? co2 should be pure co2 and be very clean, if the gas company doesnt clean/ check the tanks then it will be dirty but it is no dirtier than HPA will be


the fills are messed up and you should be compensated for it.


the burst disk not being adjusted by anyone but an air smith, from what i have seen, the style where disks are a separate piece need to be adjusted by certified people, but the ones that are all one piece do not require X torque to work correctly. i could be wrong on this but as far as i know thats how it works.

-matt

[ThePixelGuru]

insixdays777: That's good to know. My plan was to call corporate tomorrow and if that doesn't work go in to the store with the damaged equipment and a couple people and start making a lot of noise at the busiest time I can find. The more I know the more it'll convince them that it's worth the $80 to shut me up.

Tunaman: Yeah, but this is excessively dirty. I've never had a single problem with dirty CO2 anywhere else, and this problem's more severe than I've ever heard about. When I ran a field we got fills from Merriam-Graves, same as this store. I'd rather get cleaner fills than four filters.

Dework82: Yeah, this place fills behind closed doors, pretty sketchy. And if I had a local proshop I'd support it.

SR_matt: That's my thinking, with any luck I can make them agree.



In any event, I'm gonna be getting filters for my 'mags... Thanks for the support and information, everyone.

[deathstalker]

CO2 itself is not dirty, but most of the tanks are filthy on the inside. This one is a tough call for me. On one hand, I say caveat emptor. On the other hand, most large retailers have a "satisfaction guaranteed" type of policy. This type of situation could easily occur at your local field or proshop, though it might also be easier to demand satisfaction from them.

[txaggie08]

We don't run any filtration on ANY of our stations at work, We've never had a problem(and he's been running that field for several years...

[SR_matt]

a friend that worked at a local field hat got tanks through the field i worked at had pulled a valve off an empty bulk tank and he said it was pretty dirty and rusty inside, but if all the tanks that we got were that bad this tank must have been pure sludge to give you this


you should also be able to report it as a DOT violation because if the tank is that dirty it is not in "proper condition" as far as i know

-matt

[Pneumagger]

CO2 is INHERENTLY dirty. EVERYONE knows that. But...the store would have no control over what the gas supplier puts in the tanks they lease. Just clean them out and get some filters for your gun. They really do work.

That's like saying the Ion is inherently crappy. They are "sub-standard" because SP builds them on a budget and cheap usually equates to crappy parts. Likewise, distributers such as AIRgas her in ohio offer several grades of compressed air ranging from unfiltered bulk to less than 5ppm impurity. Naturally, the unfiltered will have a lot more dirt, condensation, and oil from the compressors. The store has every bit of control of what grade gas they buy.

Filters for gas compressors can cost thousands of dollars and many paintball fields neglect filter replacement or useage to cut costs. They also tend to buy bulk grade CO2 since the application is not of critical requirements. That's where the bad rep for CO2 emerged and it is slightly dodged by HPA tanks because many modern ones have the filters infront of the regs internally.

Pixel, get a 10 or 20 pound bulk tank for like $40 on ebay. Clean it out with some spirits and soap and water. Then take it to a distributer and haev it filled with high purity CO2, it should last nearly a year. ;)

[luke]

It's true, CO2 is dirty. But, in reality it's the tank not the air itself. CO2 tanks tend to rust on the bottom. Most of the players that played in the pre-nitrogen era knew this. Remember the screens AGD used to provide with the valve elbow? Ever wonder why? ;)

[ThePixelGuru]

you should also be able to report it as a DOT violation because if the tank is that dirty it is not in "proper condition" as far as i know

How do I go about doing this? The more of a pain in the butt I can be the more likely it is they'll replace my stuff just to get me to go away.

[SR_matt]

you should be able to just call the Mass. DOT and report it through them, i am almost positive it is a violation because, as i understand it, each tank is supposed to have the valve removed and inspected before the gas company refills and ships it.

-matt

[latches109]

CO2 is INHERENTLY dirty. EVERYONE knows that. But...the store would have no control over what the gas supplier puts in the tanks they lease. Just clean them out and get some filters for your gun. They really do work.


Tunaman is right!

Two things you should know:
CO2 likes to bind to stuff, like water to make acid.
CO2 likes to freeze orings

More specifically, when the carbon dioxide becomes moist through wet gas supply or mixing with entrapped liquid in the cylinders, the carbonic acid that is formed will corrode a steel cylinder. Rust develops that will contaminate the carbon dioxide gas dispensed to the marker, and can lead to cylinder failure if undetected.

Aluminum cylinders, on the other hand, are not affected by carbonic acid, and no corrosion will occur.

In the very rare event of highly caustic (alkaline) or acidic washing solutions being accidentally introduced into the cylinder, both aluminum and steel cylinders will corrode. The corrosion pits formed in an aluminium cylinder will be self-limiting, and often look worse than they really are.

The shop will most likely have steel tanks and are serviced by a third party. i.e. not their fault. The third party company, wheels out the empty tanks and brings in the full tanks.

Soo sack up. treat your mag right, and buy a compressed air tank!

More crap goes in guns because of dirty asa's and fill nipples.

[ThePixelGuru]

[late night rant] latches109, none of those things should happen if they're taking care of their equipment. I've never had a problem like this, nor even a single leak in the Minimag in all the years I've owned it. I do own a compressed air tank, and if you'd read the thread before you replied you'd know all that. And I don't care who's ultimately responsible, as a customer at their store I have a right not to have them damage my equipment. If you buy a broken appliance from a store, you take it back to the store even though it was probably broken from the factory. This is no different. They should reimburse me and take it up with Merriam-Graves, and if they've got a problem fixing their messes they should stop making them.

Really, it surprises me how many people here apparently don't believe in quality control or consumer protection. If you paid someone to dry clean your clothes and he stained the hell out of 'em would you be happy? Or what if you paid a guy to fix your car's brakes and he filled it with bad brake fluid? If there's a distinction here that I'm missing I really wish someone would enlighten me. [/late night rant]

In other news, anyone know where I can pick up some good filters for my 'mags? Both run short lines with quick disconnects from the valve to the vert ASA, if that matters.

[ThePixelGuru]

So here's the end to all this in case anyone was curious. The place was the Dick's Sporting Goods in Hadley, MA (I really wish there was a proshop anywhere around here), and they just called me back. They're going to hook me up with two new CO2 tanks and give me $40 store credit since they can't get the parts kits. I'll probably pick up some paint.

If anyone knows where I can get some inline filters for my 'mags, though, shoot me a PM. Cheers.