How Old to Play?

[SlartyBartFast]

I know, a discussion that has been done before.

But, the topic has become a hot button topic here as another child has been seriously injured playing paintball:

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=7e4c6f44-7420-47b4-8e70-5966edfb67a6&k=93388

I did manage to get on a local radio talk show and say that I believed for open play 16 yr minimum would be good. But that in no way should play be banned for well supervised groups of younger kids.

I also got in the bit about paintball being safer statistically than golf. But the idjit hung up on me and went into an on air rant about how he doubts many 11 year olds take up golf and shoot balls at each other. :mad:

I was going to add if it needs regulated, the insurance industry will step up very quickly to enforce an age limit at commercial fields if the risk is really too high.

I fin it ridiculous that because of the gun stigma, only two accidents spaced two years apart starts calls for laws. How many children have been injured or killed riding a bicycle? Why aren't there calls for minimum ages on them?

[Cow123]

Man, someone should invent a mask lock so less knowledgeable people can't take their masks off without someone else helping them.

The age limit thing is ridiculous. I've seen 20 and 30 year old guys take their mask off on the field, and I had to be the voice of reason. Heck, I've been playing since I was twelve, and I was always safe. Age has nothing to do with it. They needed better supervision and saftey lessons.

[shartley]

I know, a discussion that has been done before.

But, the topic has become a hot button topic here as another child has been seriously injured playing paintball:

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=7e4c6f44-7420-47b4-8e70-5966edfb67a6&k=93388

I did manage to get on a local radio talk show and say that I believed for open play 16 yr minimum would be good. But that in no way should play be banned for well supervised groups of younger kids.

I also got in the bit about paintball being safer statistically than golf. But the idjit hung up on me and went into an on air rant about how he doubts many 11 year olds take up golf and shoot balls at each other. :mad:

I was going to add if it needs regulated, the insurance industry will step up very quickly to enforce an age limit at commercial fields if the risk is really too high.

I fin it ridiculous that because of the gun stigma, only two accidents spaced two years apart starts calls for laws. How many children have been injured or killed riding a bicycle? Why aren't there calls for minimum ages on them?
This is a serious topic and one that should be discussed often.

I personally think that a child is old enough to play when they are large enough to wear the standard safety equipment properly, can operate the markers correctly and follow safety rules, and when their parents realize that paintball is not “playing jacks”, a babysitter, and that markers are not “toys”. And no child should be left unattended or out of direct adult supervision when they play paintball, period.

Once the child gets older (teens-older teens) the amount of “direct” supervision can be reduced but a responsible adult should still be “in charge” and supervising the overall activity.

I do however feel that a minimum age to play at commercial fields is a good thing in spite of whether the child meets all of the requirements I listed. I don’t think it is a good idea to put young inexperienced players on a “walk on” day field with other older kids or adults. I think your 16 year limit for commercial fields is not too out of line, but I tend to think that anywhere from 14-16 should be considered. Private games, sure, but not just tossed in the mix.

So depending on the child you can see ages from 8 on up with no issues given the correct situation. My kids stated playing at that age although they were introduced to the sport younger than that.

I have not seen a single “accident” on the news that could not have easily been avoided concerning paintball. Yet we see the “sport” blamed and not the parents or individuals themselves. Any activity can be dangerous if you don’t use the equipment correctly, or the thing between your ears.

[DevilMan]

"After removing his mask" Well there ya have it... What the cause was....

12-13??? 16???? I think 7-8 personally. Hell I killed, gutted, skinned my first deer when I was 8!!! With a REAL gun. Been shooting since I was 5....

The issue is that people don't LISTEN!!!! GOGGLES ON is said for a very VERY valid reason... I mean come on already...

And lets see.... I know that baseball is soooooo much safer... and soccer... hell even football is safer than paintball.... Face it.... if you follow the rules you don't get injured.

Really the face/neck area is the ONLY place on the body that you could suffer serious injury. Perhaps the nads, but if you're that nutty to play nude then you don't need to be usin em anyway.

So if you keep your head covered/protected there is nowhere else that you could suffer a major injury from getting shot with a small ball of liquid.

Perhaps some demo's of what happens to your eye when it gets hit with a ball would help... you know set up a water balloon or apple or peach something that's similar to your eye, get a sharpy and paint an eyeball on it and have everyone see what happens when it gets hit...

If that don't teach ya then maybe you're better off not gettin on the field.

Must my .02

DM

[tech-chan]

My younger brother plays, and he is eight. Cute as a button and steals all my girls... Hell, I can't complain, him and his shortness on the feild is what makes them come up too me. But seriously, I have two rules that if he breaks them, he dos'nt play for two months.
1: Mask is on always while you are touching your marker.
2:Don't touch my mag.
There you have it. And he hasn't gotten hurt once.
-Jeremiah

[d4m4don3]

Actually I would advocate for the safety equipment and marker being usable by the person playing. An 8 or even a 10 year old might not be able to use a mask safely depending on the size of their head. If the mask can fit tightly and comfortably on their head, and they can pick up the marker they're firing without putting up a herculean effort to do so then I would say it is safe. Parents need to decide when their children can play too, since the safety of their child ultimately resides with them.

[turbo chicken]

what stood out to me is this ...

"In May 2005, the hospital sent out an earlier warning to parents about the dangers of paintball after Daniel Romagnolo, 10, was injured at the same facility under similar circumstances."

at the same facility ... there has to be a connection here ....


sure the kid took off his mask ... but i'd be willing to bet that the rules aren't being enforced very strict either...

At my home field Hit and Run in Texas ...(haven't played there in a long time but it's still my home field) The goggle rule is strictly enforced ... when i reffed i made it known that there were no warnings for a goggle infraction ... i catch you once and your sitting out a game ...

[AZ_09]

This is another reason why I hate little kids, except these kids are a bit older than the normal obnoxious ones.

[Eurochris]

Rant:

It is not about age its maturity. If you can't follow the rules you shouldn't be allowed play. If you can, have a nice day and start playing. Also, you have to be able fit the equipment.

Rant off:

-Eurochris

[Chronobreak]

age cab vary greatly.

ive seen 10 year olds that go out there balls out, get lit up and are ready to go at it again the next game with some nice sized welts.

ive also seen some 15-17 year olds take a ball and curl up into the featul(spl) position and or cry bloody murder.

generaly i would like to think that parents would know if their kid should be playing or not but that isnt always the case. If the kid seems unprepared i may mention to the parents they might want to wait before bringing him back or to another field for safety purposes.

as a ref if you dont know the individual its near impossible to judge the severity of the situation or the individuals tolerance for pain.

insurance companies are always eager to stick their fist into another industry, theyl go up to their elbows if they can or have to in some cases.

this case also only goes to re inforce proper safety equipment and guidlines. Mask on at all times no exceptions. Thats why fields and refs more importantly need to step up and be strict on the rules. Feel free to give examples to help the kids or parents understand IE playing footbal or baseball without a helmet(what would the ump do) or see if you can go test drive a car without a seatbelt.

i would also like to add in my opinion the astm standards are out of date(greatly, not that theyr followed) but probly 90% of paintball goggles and safety equipment is not what it should be or allowed to be used.

/end rant for now so i can drink another energy drink

--edit, if i HAD to pick an age for EVERYONE , i would suggest 14

[Kloki1971]

Is paintball truly dangerous?

You know those 1,234 people who suffered an eye injury playing paintball in 2000? Seems like everyone knows about them. This study has been quoted many, many times lately by numerous sources.

It may surprise you, as it did me, to discover that those 1234 people don't really exist. Take a look at the statistics from the report. That figure is an estimate extrapolated from 25 injuries reported by facilities that report to the National Electronic Injury Surveillance System (NEISS).

And all those children who lost an eye playing paintball in their backyards without proper protection? In reality, there were so few, that it's not possible to come up with a statistically valid estimate.

I'm not kidding you. At the bottom of the chart it says the CV is too large to be reliable, and that some of the other figures also cannot be considered reliable.
So let's talk about REAL eye injuries to children, with statistically valid estimates. I got them from here.

Eye Injuries in other sports:

Basketball: 8,320
Water & pool activities: 4,991
Baseball & Softball: 3,856
Soccer: 2,153
Football: 2,137
Raquet sports: 1,480
Bicycles: 1,365
Paintball: 1,234 (I plugged that in from the report)
Golf: 1,155
According to the U.S. Eye Injury Registry, 38 percent of all sports-related eye injuries are baseball or softball injuries and 40 percent of those injuries required surgery.

Hold on to your socks, because here comes the big shocker. Let's look at the number of eye injuries in children caused by other things:
Household Eye Injuries in Children 0-14 years old

Would you worry about your child playing with pens and pencils? 3,645 eye injuries a year.
Water and pool activities? 2,029 eye injuries a year.
Paper products? 1,373 eye injuries a year.
Desk supplies? 1,145 eye injuries a year.
TOYS?? A whopping 9.850 eye injuries a year.
Keep in mind that the report that claims that paintballs are a MAJOR threat to kids' eyes can't even come up with a statistically valid estimate of how many children are injured a year because their sample was too small! Even if I were to guess, from looking at the chart, it must be around 500.

But let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that the estimated 1,234 eye injuries WERE all children, which they were not. According to preventblindness.org, they'd trumped by the number of children who injure themselves with paper products!
Now, I'm not saying that it's safe to play paintball without protection. It's colossally stupid, and their parents should be ashamed of letting them use a paintball marker without supervision. The marker should be kept locked, unassembled and unloaded, and the parents should have the only key. What I am saying is that the "paintball menace" appears to have been blown completely out of proportion, to a degree that is absolutely unbelievable!

I think it's very good that this report has been blown out of proportion. Parents should realize the safety risk posed not only by playing rogue paintball, but also the risk for eye injury in other sports that are so common that they don't make for tantalizing headlines.

It seems that many people SO want to believe that paintball, even when played on an insured field staffed by judges, is dangerous. But no one can come up with valid proof, because it's simply not true.

Why didn't any of these journalists do their homework?



This is from About.com very interesting reading on the subject of paintball and eye injuries....

[Tao]

Well there are worse sports out there. What about in the suthern US where people get their 5 year old kids to ride small dirt bikes in a race against each other???? :wow:

[TnDeathInc]

My brother in law plays he's 13 he bunkers many and loves the snake. He has been playing since 10. He now plays tourneys and scenario ball.

Depends on level of supervision. He is the first person to speak up if someones barrel condom isnt on or someone lifts their mask.

[Chronobreak]

also im sure its agreed as stated most or nearly all of these injuries happen when kids are playing unsupervise or during "renegade ball" as safety can become very lax or non existent.

emphasis needs to be put only on safety gear but on playing at insured fields that enforce safety

[ThePixelGuru]

This stuff comes up all the time and it pisses me off. Would you play football or lacrosse without pads? Or go mountain biking or kayaking without a helmet? Then why do people think that kids getting hurt when they take off their masks is somehow the fault of the sport itself? And I always thought it was stupid for the mask packages to say that a mask can't protect you if it's not on. Wear your damn masks, people, it's not that hard. And if you see people not wearing theirs, scream your head off until they do.

The only time these things ever make the news is when some idiot takes a mask off and gets shot in the eye. Stupidity hurts only as much as it should.

[blizpaintball42]

Rant:

It is not about age its maturity. If you can't follow the rules you shouldn't be allowed play. If you can, have a nice day and start playing. Also, you have to be able fit the equipment.

Rant off:

-Eurochris

Agreed.

At my field, if your ten year old is mature, respectful and follows my rules, great, we absolutely ask him or her to come back and play anytime.

If you're 33 year old friend is retarded, we will toss him and ask that he/she doesn't return.

[Cold Steel]

I find it hard to believe that a public field, that's ran as a business, could even still get liability insurance after the first catastrophic eye injury. What is even more hard to believe is the fact that obviously the field owner and the field staff have yet to learn and enforce proper safety measures.

I'd like to think that accidents can happen to everyone, but 2 incidences like this, that could have/should have been prevented, that's just sad.

CS

[SlartyBartFast]

Is paintball truly dangerous?

Unfortunately, all the numbers supplied are absolutely and totally meaningless.

The defense of paintball by comparing it to paper product injuries is so flawed that using it risks harming the case for promoting paintball as a safe sport. Why?

Well without even knowing absolute specifics we can make the following two assumptions:
- millions of people play paintball.
- hundreds of millions of people use paper products.

So, at a minimum, the risk of eye injury from playing paintball is hundreds of times greater than using a paper product.

Add to that the fact that a paper product even approaching the eyes can undoubtedly be described “not the intended use”, where-as having paintballs fired in the direction of your head is “intended use”.

After being discredited with the first argument, total versus statistical, there is no way to recover in the eye of public opinion from the second, intended versus un-intended use. Explaining that the overwhelming majority of the injuries, despite occuring during the intended use, occurred mostly due to player error then followed far behind by failure of safety equipment wont convince anyone worried about the sport to change their mind.

You have to lead with calm explanation of player error and failure of safety equipment.

Then, locally I'd bring high emphasis on the fact the injuries occurred at the same location. Comparing the clients, how many and what age distribution, of that location with others in the region.

Then, you need the same data from the NEISS report but calculated to represent player participation, age distribution of injuries, and overall injury rates not just eye injuries.

Only then can you effectively counter concerns and effectively promote paintball as a safe sport.

Does such comprehensive information exist? I would assume it does somewhere. How else do insurance companies evaluate the risks for providing coverage?

[paullus99]

My biggest concern with the age question is not necessarily about the maturity of an individual (which we all know varies wildly from person to person), but their size - i.e. most paintball safety equipment (primarily masks & googles) are not made for smaller individuals.

I would be concerned about hits that might get through a mask that is not fitted properly. So, like the amusement parks, you must be "this high" to ride...

[madcrisis]

Rant:

It is not about age its maturity. If you can't follow the rules you shouldn't be allowed play. If you can, have a nice day and start playing. Also, you have to be able fit the equipment.

Rant off:

-Eurochris


i beleive this says it best


im younger than 16 but i firmly beleive in safety. im not dumbass who taes off their masks in the middle of battle but i have seen adults do it. so if age comes before maturity it doesnt make much sense. i think if you can follow the rules and be respectful you can play

[psychowarden]

According to the U.S. Eye Injury Registry, 38 percent of all sports-related eye injuries are baseball or softball injuries and 40 percent of those injuries required surgery.

I can vouch for that one. I've got a nice scar right about my right eye from getting nailed by a baseball 8 years ago. Lets not forget the dwindleing amount of cartalidge in my knees, my two broken fingers, my dislocated elbow, and my twice broken nose. All from baseball.

[mostpeople]

I hate playing with little kids, they dont follow the rules and things like this happens.

I think, that if you are a little kid (under 18) you need to be accompanied by your parent on the field at all times. Whether or not he is standing right with you doesnt matter. But you must have 1 parent watching 1 kid at all times. And he will be in the field, with a mask watching.

Therefore, if 2 14 y.o. want to play they need 2 parents to watch them. Because this is serious, this is an extreme sport and these kids need to understand that the only different between seeing your dinner that night and having fun, or lying in a hostpital bed hoping you will regain your vision is THAT MASK YOU ARE WEARING.

Contrary to popular belief, paintball is one of the safest sports out there, ironic I know. But assuming that you are big enough (old enough) to wear the mask properly, and you are old enough to be mature enough to follow the safety rules, i.e. mask on when on the field, also barrel plugs in before you leave the field then it really is one of the safest sports there is!

God I almost blasted a 12 y.o. last month who I got out on a run but didnt know it, he popped out behind the can he ran to with his mask up as he was the last one; I had the gun drawn and ready to lay a rope.. good thing I noticed it in time. He got reamed for his actions..

[hopwheels]

Well, my 9-year old plays, only twice so far, but he digs it. I think it really depends on the level of personal responsibility you've engrained in your kid from the get go, and their willingness to actually accept it. And as their parent, of course you have to be on top of them to make sure they're following the rules and being safe at all times despite what you think they know. We got pretty lucky though in that we were introduced to the sport by a friend that organizes family/group paintball days (private group play) and we started out this way. I think that if you want to get your kid into paintball this is a great way to do it. That way, there's a bunch of other parents there with kids too, who can help supervise play.

[RogueFactor]

As long as the parent is present to supervise their child and the use of the marker they are using, any age is fine. Because the parent is/can be held responsible for their childs actions.

If a parent/guardian is not present, the age should be restricted to the legal age required to purchase the marker they are using.

[athomas]

As long as the parent is present to supervise their child and the use of the marker they are using, any age is fine. Because the parent is/can be held responsible for their childs actions.

If a parent/guardian is not present, the age should be restricted to the legal age required to purchase the marker they are using.Great point. How many times have we seen parents drop their kid off at a field and come back after a couple of hours to pick him/her up. The other scenario is a party where there is 1 or 2 adults supervising 15 kids. It is hard to be vigilant with a large pack of kids.

A more direct amount of supervision is required for younger players.