trigger pull lighter and shorter 1mm ...sweet!

[bubba]

ok if you want it to be shorter then follow these instructions there hard but well worth it i got like around a 2mm pull and a friend has around a 1mm pull its sick..i wanted it shorter, turns out it sure made it short. first thing, is the powertube spacers, they arent major, but find a spacer that makes the gun leak a lil down the barrel, and then, put the next size below that in, that will make the guns reacting time quicker, its not major, but it helps. the next thing, u must be careful with, its sanding down the trigger sear, u over do it, the bolt wont catch and it will fire out of control, this is the major one, so sand a lil bit, and i mean a lil bit, then put it back together and gas it up. get it to ur likings, then leave it alone. dont go very short, cuz u cant go backwards, u can only buy a new sear if it gets messed up. also, the length of the pin behind the trigger, just make sure it pushes the trigger all the way back, so there is no wiggling in the trigger, dont over do it, or the gun wont fire right. last thing, make some sort of stopper behind the trigger, so once it fires, the trigger doesnt move nemore. i found that putting something in the safety, like a screw, stopped the trigger right on time. it all depends on the pull of ur trigger.that u will hafta put together urself. with all that, my trigger became 1mm and incredibly snappy, as in, it bounced back like the RT, so all u need to do is touch the trigger and it will start ripping off rounds. well, thats how i did it.

[PB700]

ADG is this true....:confused:

[BlackVCG]

No. You can't make it bounce like an RT because of the valve design. You also can't shorten the actual length of pull without causing problems that will occur immediately or in the future after it's used awhile in its modified state.

Shortening the trigger pull does two things. It doesn't let the on/off valve pin open all the way and shootdown occurs and the sear isn't able to drop down far enough when you pull the trigger all the way back, so the bolt rides on the top of the sear when it's being pushed back by the bolt spring causing it to wear down the top of the bolt latching surface.

The best trigger job anyone can do is put the gun through regular use and let the parts wear in, or if it still doesn't satisfy you, get a double trigger.

[Army]

These are right off Ravi Chopra's website. DON'T DO IT!

Ravi has been proven time and again, that he does NOT know what the heck he is doing around Automags.

Put your guns back to stock specs, all you are doing now is breaking your gun.

[bubba]

well i tried it and it works i sanded the top of the sear just a alittle at a time and it worked it doesnt rub or nothing dont mess with the trigger rod just sand the sear if you want to do it then do it its not my choice to tell sorry if i upset some people thx

[LaW]

sanding the sear isn't good either...don't do this guys...

[vaypourus]

Isn't the outside of the sear hardened anyways?? Wouldn't sanding this hard anodizing (or whatever it is) expose the softer metal?

[Shaft]

Originally posted by vaypourus
Isn't the outside of the sear hardened anyways?? Wouldn't sanding this hard anodizing (or whatever it is) expose the softer metal?

BINGO!!!

Aside from the PT spacer - Bubba just described what not to do with a Mag.

Now I have been told that one can remove .005" from the bottom of the on/off pin - no more! In the same breath it was suggested to do this only on a new on/off assembly as to not destroy the perfectly working on/off assembly you should already have.

[Edit] Wording

[Cha0tic]

haha ravi has no clue with mags. if you look through his review on mags, he says how he chops like mad. he can't even pull the trigger right.

the sear is hard ano'd to be stronger. sanding takes this off and weakens it. shortening the pull also causes problems like blackvcg said.

[Butterfingers]

Just clearing things up...

You can't anodize steel. Anodizing is what we do with aluminum. It creates aluminum oxides that coat the surface of aluminum to protect it. Although very hard, anodizing is very thin and can be easily scratched off.

If you try to anodize steel the reaction will be VERY violent and will dissolve your part in minutes if not seconds, and possibly cause a small fire. So for future reference don't try to fade anodize your stainless mag body.

Steel is hardened by heat treatments called tempering, or chemical treatments like nitriding, or case hardening by carbonization.

That being said, don't mess with your sear it will cause problems in the future. If in fact the steel has a surface treatment you will sand it right off. Ill give it a month or two of hard play before his gun stops working, leaking down the barrel, chopping balls, and other such fun stuff.

[Cha0tic]

i think it wa case hardening.....i say ano b/c someone else said it before me :)

[vaypourus]

Sorry! I didn't mean it! I am an engineering student...I used the word anodize simply to get my point across. I know you can't anodize steel..they made us see why in our mech tech class. it was pretty cool to see what happens when you try.

[HyperSnyper]

AGD sears are case hardened, which means that the outside is harder than the inside. This is why I dont believe in touching the sear in anyway (other than maybe scraping rust off the sear). If you file or sand down the sear, you are just wearing down the sear prematurely.

As for filing down the pin, I filed down my Z valve pin, I admit, but only to make it the exact length of the stock AGD one. I am still happy with it, and it is NOT creating any problems with the bolt.

There is alot people that dont fully understand about what filing/shortening the pin on the On/Off does in terms of Bolt/Sear tolerances. This will explain why shortening the pin shorter than Stock specs will wear the bolt and sear faster (I got all this info from both Centerflags and Booyah over 2 months ago before my choice to try and go electro).

The sear pin is the fulcrum point where the sear pivots back and forth. The sear in operation is exactly like a see-saw. Its operation is to turn on thing on while shutting another off. When one end goes up the other end goes down. While the sear goes down to release the bolt, the on/off pin goes up to seal the on/off cavity. When you release the trigger, the pressure automatically pushes the on/off pin down which resets the gun and places the sear up again to catch the bolt.

But what happens when you shorten the pin? It throws off the tolerances. Since the pin is shorter, after an initial shot, the pin wont push the rear end of the sear down as far, beacuse of this, the front of the sear will not fully reset to its proper height. Because of this this, the whole "face" of the sear will not catch the entire "face" of the bolt. Instead, the edges will catch each other. Since the only the edges are catching each other, this will lead to increased wear, this will go on until finally the bolt face becomes rounded as well as the sear until finally the sear tip breaks off.

This is a problem that the electro frames have on the Mags, which is why they want their consumers to have it sent in to have it properly fitted. Too short a pin, and this will increase bolt wear but make a shoter pull. Too long a pin, and this will increase pull length and harden the pull.

Hope this littl bit of 411 helps.

-Hyper

[banzaimf]

Originally posted by BlackVCG
No. You can't make it bounce like an RT because of the valve design. You also can't shorten the actual length of pull without causing problems that will occur immediately or in the future after it's used awhile in its modified state.

Shortening the trigger pull does two things. It doesn't let the on/off valve pin open all the way and shootdown occurs and the sear isn't able to drop down far enough when you pull the trigger all the way back, so the bolt rides on the top of the sear when it's being pushed back by the bolt spring causing it to wear down the top of the bolt latching surface.

The best trigger job anyone can do is put the gun through regular use and let the parts wear in, or if it still doesn't satisfy you, get a double trigger.

Hate to argue with you BlackVCG, but it you can do a sear job that will bounce like an RT, it will not run for crap but it will have the bounce.

As for Ravi's mod's to the trigger pull. He did not invent these to kill mags or make the mags look bad when they fail. He merely put on the web, info that was already going around on how to do mag triggers. This was around 95 I think. I have done a half dozen sear jobs for SnG's. The one I got in now is beveled to one side, the lowered in the middle. I have got about 100,000 shots through it on that sear. Still works great.

Note to people who have never done this sear grinds before... You will screw one up. Take your current sear and keep it in a warm safe place. Then buy 2 more sears.


banzaimf

[Butterfingers]

You really cant. The RT valve design is what makes the trigger bounce. There is no way for a classic valve to bounce like an RT because you are pushing against regulated pressure and the regulator pressure pushes back with the same force.

Ask RobAGD and other AGD techs how many guns they have repaired or got sent back to the factory as a result of ravi's trigger job.

[HyperSnyper]

Technically,

All Mag triggers can bounce... to a certain extent.

Right before the sear trips, the on/off pin seals the Air chamber. Both pressures are equal ontop of the on/off and below. After the sear is tripped though, and the bolt fligs forward and discharges the Air chambers volume of air, there will then be a pressure difference. This pressure difference is what creates a return force for the trigger to reset.

So there in actuality, all Mag triggers have a bounce. However, since the RT uses actual input pressure (~850 psi) to act on the pin for return as opposed to a classic valves regulated pressure (~400 psi) its obvious to see how an RT can have an entirely more forceful bounce and return force.


-Hyper

[fenris69]

couple things. You CAN mess with your trigger, adjust your rod and pin...people have been doing it for years.banzaimf is right, it's old news, and anyone whos been around more than a few years can confirm that. naturally everyone at AGD hates 'em because when someone decides to tinker and bugger up their piece they send it in. Theres nothing wrong with these mods IF you're willing to accept the results, and most likely replace the parts you've just wrecked. not like thats a difficult task...it is a mag. :)

basically do this only if you are capable of putting things back the way they were.
one has to wonder tho...why the hell would you? the pull is plenty good. I prefer the single trigger myself, although I currently have a double. The only people who might want this are the tinkerers.

[Butterfingers]

im not saying you cant do it its just not reccomended. A lot of people who dont know what they are doing will screw it up then send it back to AGD to be repaired. Or will be unhappy with the reuslts and blame the gun for somthing that they did.

[MajorDamage]

Sure you can give it a trigerjob...and I can also drill "speedholes" in my valve and mess that up too, but like you said, I will need to buy more parts :D

ENDO!

[Restola]

i put "speedholes" in my barrel Homer Simpson style...with a pick-axe

[MajorDamage]

Oh yeah, thats the way you gotta do it. With a pick axe or with bullets :D

ENDO!

[Xzion]

I'f I'm not mistaken, the sears are carbide tipped. and I wouldnt do these mods... personally my mags work fine without em, and I already have a 2mm trigger pull with my Z-Grip.... but if you wanna try it and ruin your sears by sanding away the carbide, and wecking the careful machining of the sear so it matches up with the bolt, more power to you, you should have seen all the horror pics of hacked up sears at AGD Super Tour, ah well, to each their own I suppose. *shrugs*

[Army]

The older serial numbers of RTs had the Carbide tips and roller bearings, no more though.

The normal sear is simply surface hardened for long life. When you take away the hard surface by sanding or grinding, wear is accelerated at unpredictable levels.

BTW, you wouldn't be able to sand down Carbide anyway, way to hard of material. Carbide blades are used to cut stainless steel with little to no wear to the cutting tip.