Being talked out of a Mag...why do people do this?

[Anjin3515]

I was at the local paintball store today to pick up some stuff for my wifes b-day. The guy asked what kind of marker I had.
Told him I have an A-5 and was going to get a Tac-One Automag.
He kind of smirked and said...."hummm...Mags are sort of old school...no upgrades, not much on the market for them".
I replied.."yeah, but its about the best mech gun you can get"....
then he went in to "the talk"...."well Mags are fine and all...but no one buys them anymore, thats why we don't carry them. They are heavy and take a lot of oil. Have you thought about an Autococker??"
I said " well...Mags arent that heavy with the ULE body the Autococker I hear has to be really taken care of, sort of hard to maintian"
....he came back with " but the valve is still steel on the Mag making it heavy....and Autococker is more accurate and lighter...and you can get it electronic if you want...if you don't tinker with them then they shoot awesome and don't need much maintenance...all the problems I see are from people trying to tinker with the AUtococker, if you don't disassemble it then it will work like a dream ...plus they are cheaper...here look at this Superstock 05 for $166.00"

Im not against anyone trying to sell their stuff...thats fine. But why does it seem when I mention to anyone that I want to get a Mag they sort of role their eyes and have that...look....the one that says "oh you really don't know much about markers do you".....

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....sorry just venting!

[RogueFactor]

Simple reason why...he doesnt carry it.

Obviously, he doesnt want to lose a sale, and will tell you misinformation to do so. You knew more than he did about the product...why buy from a guy like that?

[warpig13]

if you don't disassemble it then it will work like a dream


And then when it has internal problems you have to pay someone to fix it, instead of popping out a srcew :rolleyes:

Con't get me wrong, I have some Ecockers and a Mag.
My mag is a mech with XValve and goodies. And I can put more paint on target with chopping than I have with any other gun using my Hammerhead kit.

[Anjin3515]

people say AGD is dead, its a niche marker for a niche market.....

maybe thats true....but from the research I have done....as far as a mech marker goes....Automag is the best you can get. If I am wrong..please someone let me know...for the next marker I get I want it to be the top mech out there....the only other mech that I have heard of that is in the class of the AGD's is a Plamer....but if there are more out there please tell me and why... all the info I can get will only lead to me getting the best marker I can get. I dont mind buying a niche marker if its the best.
Thanks.

[ß?µ£ §mµ®ƒ]

Just get mags and parts from rogue and magsmith and tuna and jay. Its the safest way to go and the best way imho. for me, the only place that had mag parts of the 10 paintball stores far and wide across my area was 2 hrs away and they had a ule black body and a rt valve parts. both of which i bought so they didnt have any mag parts left. heh

[Spider-TW]

But 5 drops of oil per game day really cramps my paint budget. :cry:

[russc]

Well...you just ran into a cocker guy. Don't let it screw with you. I love Autocockers and Blazers but as far as mechanical guns go, nothing comes close to Automags.

[pepple84]

i've been shooting cockers for a number of years and i can say mine has never really "shot like a dream" everytime i picked it up. numerous times it would be off for no reason, leaving me to troubleshoot taking away from playing time. even some timmys i shot acted up. so far since i've got a mag i've adjusted the velocity once and haven't needed to do anything else. i bought it for a mech backup and found myself wanting to play with it over some of my other electros. buy a marker that makes you feel comfortable, you'll play better that way. whether it's a mag, an ion, a cocker, etc, as long as your happy that's what counts

[Sumthinwicked]

lol 5 a day only when i need to break it down do i oil :ninja: all these years cant be wrong playing for 123 and its just oil like 2.50 a bottle

[dstud2000]

Well I am new to mags, since I just got my first one recently, but not cockers or Palmer guns. If you want an autococking type gun that will hold up with no more than cleaning and oiling, then a Palmer Blazer all the way, cockers are fine too, but in my opinion only if you feel like being a tinkerer. The mag so far seems the easiest gun to just pick up and use. I still need to put more time on the field with it, but it has met and exceeded my expectations. :hail:

[teufelhunden]

Because they're closed bolt, 'Cockers shoot straighter.

And farther.

[punkncat]

This was like an open invitation for the mag guys to bash the storer owner pushing a cocker instead.... :rolleyes:

Mags and cockers are what they are. Neither one is better persay, both accomplish the same thing in different ways. Cockers are not mysterious or even hard to work on if you simply take the time to learn how it works. Certainly no more a tinkers marker than trying to figure out how to properly tune LX or ULT the first time......

Look at it this way. Cockers have NO resale at all, can't give one away. At this time and for some time Mags have brought excellent resale, especially parted. So either way, a used cocker can be had cheap, and a mag is easy to get a return on if you don't like it.

[OneUp]

Because they're closed bolt, 'Cockers shoot straighter.

And farther.

Yeah, have fun with your inaacurate peashooting mag while the closed bolt gnomes position the paintball by hand and the fairy sprinkles some pixie dust in the air to make the ball go straighter while the bolt installs an anti-gravity device in the paintball to make it go further. :rofl:

[SCpoloRicker]

Because they're closed bolt, 'Cockers shoot straighter.

And farther.

Win.

[Rudz]

ran into a shop like that once when i was younger, the tech told me that the mech cockers could shoot faster and farther than my spyder e99 and there was nothing i could do to my e99 to make it shoot as fast or as far as a cocker..that techs gone, theres an old school mag guy there now..lol :rofl:

[zipity_Bop]

I was at the local paintball store today to pick up some stuff for my wifes b-day. The guy asked what kind of marker I had.
Told him I have an A-5 and was going to get a Tac-One Automag.
He kind of smirked and said...."hummm...Mags are sort of old school...no upgrades, not much on the market for them".
I replied.."yeah, but its about the best mech gun you can get"....
then he went in to "the talk"...."well Mags are fine and all...but no one buys them anymore, thats why we don't carry them. They are heavy and take a lot of oil. Have you thought about an Autococker??"
I said " well...Mags arent that heavy with the ULE body the Autococker I hear has to be really taken care of, sort of hard to maintian"
....he came back with " but the valve is still steel on the Mag making it heavy....and Autococker is more accurate and lighter...and you can get it electronic if you want...if you don't tinker with them then they shoot awesome and don't need much maintenance...all the problems I see are from people trying to tinker with the AUtococker, if you don't disassemble it then it will work like a dream ...plus they are cheaper...here look at this Superstock 05 for $166.00"

Im not against anyone trying to sell their stuff...thats fine. But why does it seem when I mention to anyone that I want to get a Mag they sort of role their eyes and have that...look....the one that says "oh you really don't know much about markers do you".....

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....sorry just venting!

you should of gone into a rebutle over every claim her made....
steel valves......
non-electric mags......
accurate and lighter........

this shop owner apparently hasn't sen an Automag since the early 90's...

[drg]

I will say this though, the current blowout prices on WGP guns is amazing. $166 for that superstock is ... ridiculous really. You can barely buy a level 10 classic for that.

[OneUp]

The local proshop had a guy that's been there for 10 years and knows how good mags can be.


Too bad he quit for a better job.

[pump]

They are heavy and take a lot of oil. Have you thought about an Autococker??"
....he came back with " but the valve is still steel on the Mag making it heavy....and Autococker is more accurate and lighter...
when he said this, you should if just said....dude you dont know what your talking about, either you are ignorant or lying.....are you ignorant?


man now i just want to shop at that store and shut him down


also thats why i love my local shop......they get old school tinkering bugs all the time

they get stoked when you bring mech guns in!

[nathanjones008]

I do not think it is so much of losing a sell, its just the guy does not know much about mags. You cant blame him.after all it has been 4 = years since AGD has put out any makers. I am sure there are thousands of paintballers like this guy.

Its a good thing you educated him.

AGD is still alive and kicking. :shooting:

[Chronobreak]

an all ule mag is lighter than a mini...

:rolleyes:

[Anjin3515]

I have heard good things about cockers....but I am not very mechanically inclined...a marker to "tinker with" would not be too good for me.

I was seriously interested in the Palmer Blazer....but the Mag keeps calling me back!!!!..and its from an Illinois company (buy local :) )

The guy couldn't have talked me out of the mag...but its sort of dishearting to hear people like that...I admit it makes me question if I am doing the right thing.

Someone on another forum said that mags were just niche markers now...but I don't care...as long as there are parts for it, it can be serviced....then I want the best I can get...niche or not.
Mag owners remind me of Apple computer owners....very loyal! I don't think a product would have such a rabid (even if it is small or niche) following if it weren't good.

[mr doo doo]

the people i have ran into who looks down on mags either:

1) Does not know what an Automag is.
2) Its not electric (mine isnt)
3) they favor other guns then mags

i mean, i really dont care if they hate mags or not since the majority of the people who say something non-positive about it just doesnt know what a mag is. But sometimes its funny because i usually slip a little comment to the same person after getting shot by my mag ;)

[Zone Drifter]

an all ule mag is lighter than a mini...

:rolleyes:
Heck yes it is. i just built one and the guy at my local store was shocked when i had him hold it.

I love how automags are though, not mainstream enough to have everyone using them, but known enough that when i play at a field and people ask what i use, i tell them automag and to them its like a ledgendary gun that nobody has ever seen in person. XD

[OneUp]

Someone on another forum said that mags were just niche markers now.
I'd say its for the niche of players who shop carefully and aren't susceptible to hype.

[robnix]

I'd say its for the niche of players who shop carefully and aren't susceptible to hype.

That's a good niche to be in!

[Sumthinwicked]

:ninja: i have owned around 50 guns in the years i have played id say over half were or are mags they have a goof profit margin :headbang: i currantly traded a shocker for a longbow i own 2 of those and a tib 8 thats it now and one is for my gf

[DvS21]

I just bought my first mag from classicmagger A nice x valved piece of secks. I can't wait till it gets here but I just want to know, are you guys serious about a ULE'd mag can be lighter than a mini? I have a mini and it's under 2 pounds. I mean I did research and shopped around for my mag and made sure I was making a good buy, but I've never heard that you can get a mag lighter than a mini. My cousin has one (which is what sparked my intrest) and it's even in my opinion kinda heavy! I dunno..... Please enlighten me (without flaming lol).

Back on track, why do people always push autocokers? Theres always one guy at like every proshop I've ever been to who scoffs at my gun (be it an A 5 an SP8 or a Mini) and tells me I need to get an Autococker. They aren't even that much more accurate! I dunno its kinda weird.

[robnix]

I just bought my first mag from classicmagger A nice x valved piece of secks. I can't wait till it gets here but I just want to know, are you guys serious about a ULE'd mag can be lighter than a mini? I have a mini and it's under 2 pounds. I mean I did research and shopped around for my mag and made sure I was making a good buy, but I've never heard that you can get a mag lighter than a mini. My cousin has one (which is what sparked my intrest) and it's even in my opinion kinda heavy! I dunno..... Please enlighten me (without flaming lol).

Back on track, why do people always push autocokers? Theres always one guy at like every proshop I've ever been to who scoffs at my gun (be it an A 5 an SP8 or a Mini) and tells me I need to get an Autococker. They aren't even that much more accurate! I dunno its kinda weird.

I had a mag with a Shadow Rail, CF Foregrip, XValve, Hyperframe, Stiffi, and Exile Body that weighed 1lb 13 oz.

[DvS21]

wow I'm impressed!

[pyrodragon]

i love pulling out my primary gun, RT ULE Pro Custom with a Z-Grip. i get a ton of looks and questions about it. i get some of the vets saying you damn mag guys love your guns to death. yeah it's call the magness disease. but i love it when i take it to get my tank filled and have the owners and workers calling each other to look at it.

[robnix]

wow I'm impressed!

The Karta project I have in the works should come in right under 2lbs. People don't get just how light a mag can be, and how small a profile it has. That mag I just told you about surprised people when they saw it had a smaller profile than a Schlocker.

[Jaan]

I love 'Mags, my primary semi has been a 'Mag for 12 years. With that being said, I wouldn't recommend a 'Mag these days. They are a niche marker now. Parts aren't that easy to find anymore for one thing. When you have to send e-mail after e-mail to one of the very few people who still have parts, practically begging them to sell you stuff and you get no reply, it pretty much sours you on the whole thing.

For the guy who wants to go out and play, not spend too much money on a gun, and be able to find parts at their local store, they're just not practical anymore. There are several nice electro guns for $400 or less these days; try putting together an electro 'Mag for that price...without having to spend the next 10 months scouring e-bay.

[RogueFactor]

I love 'Mags, my primary semi has been a 'Mag for 12 years. With that being said, I wouldn't recommend a 'Mag these days. They are a niche marker now. Parts aren't that easy to find anymore for one thing. When you have to send e-mail after e-mail to one of the very few people who still have parts, practically begging them to sell you stuff and you get no reply, it pretty much sours you on the whole thing.

For the guy who wants to go out and play, not spend too much money on a gun, and be able to find parts at their local store, they're just not practical anymore. There are several nice electro guns for $400 or less these days; try putting together an electro 'Mag for that price...without having to spend the next 10 months scouring e-bay.

Parts are easy to find. My e-mail is rogue@roguesportz.com . Im not hard to get a hold of, and if I dont have the parts, I can find them if they are available. Just because you cant get a hold of 1 dealer, doesnt mean the parts cant be had or found.

[Anjin3515]

I love 'Mags, my primary semi has been a 'Mag for 12 years. With that being said, I wouldn't recommend a 'Mag these days. They are a niche marker now. Parts aren't that easy to find anymore for one thing. When you have to send e-mail after e-mail to one of the very few people who still have parts, practically begging them to sell you stuff and you get no reply, it pretty much sours you on the whole thing.

For the guy who wants to go out and play, not spend too much money on a gun, and be able to find parts at their local store, they're just not practical anymore. There are several nice electro guns for $400 or less these days; try putting together an electro 'Mag for that price...without having to spend the next 10 months scouring e-bay.

Doing research into my next marker this issue came up. I pretty much settled on the Tac-One...but was worried about parts..etc. However it seems to me there are a number of options to get parts (at least for that mag)....AGD being one, and a number of independent guys like Rogue. I agree that the E-Mag is expensive and maybe not worth the price and time it takes to get one together....but I am not looking for electro anyhow. I want the best mech marker I can get. I think you have valid points...but from what I can see...at least for the Tac-One...there is no problem in having it serviced or parts being available.

[djellum]

I've always judged on whether a tech or pb'r gives actual positive info on the marker they are pushing (for lack of a better word). Every marker brings something to the table, and if they promote the good it speaks for itself. It makes me laugh that ppl still say that one gun is better than the next because its more accurate and gives less problems (most common i get). I rarely hear the true defining attrributes from ppl such as gas effeciency, how quiet/loud it is, cost, warranty, ergonomics and fit, the list goes on.

166 bucks is still a steal for a superstock (and prostocks are $90 in my area). I'd never sell my Xtra, but if cockers were a hundred bucks when I bought my spyders....

[NoLifeLeft]

Dude, I've had mech cockers and mags. The cockers ALWAYS required more oil that the mags. At least in my experience. Hell, my mags hate over-oiling.

[LK-13]

"SELLING" is talking someone into buying something they don't want or need for a price they can not afford just to increase the bottom line.

when i had my Paintball shop in operation, i provided people with information and a place to get the things they wanted with one exception, safety.
there were masks i would not support because i didn't feel a person was safe wearing it.

i hate "SELLING" people on anything.

and at this shop you were being "SOLD" on something you did not want.

[Anjin3515]

"SELLING" is talking someone into buying something they don't want or need for a price they can not afford just to increase the bottom line.

when i had my Paintball shop in operation, i provided people with information and a place to get the things they wanted with one exception, safety.
there were masks i would not support because i didn't feel a person was safe wearing it.

i hate "SELLING" people on anything.

and at this shop you were being "SOLD" on something you did not want.

very true!

The good thing is that i wasnt buying :)

[jetgirl86]

I think it's also a matter of what a player is comfortable with, their playing style, and their budget. Oddly enough, most of the walk-ons I play with happen to have fairly high-end electronic markers. I'm the only female in my state that plays with an Automag, and fortunately the paintball stores are quite respectful of brand name markers. The downside to being an Automag owner here is finding someone who knows how to properly work on one. So far, I haven't had the need to have anything done to my ULE marker, and it's been about 4 years.

[mr doo doo]

i love mags :)

[WSCopic]

Some of what he said was true. Most of the troubles people have with Cockers is from not knowing what the heck they are doing.

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it....works every time.

There are pluses and minuses to everything. Both guns can be fun, and both require a little bit of knowledge to work on them. Some people still think Cockers require some sacrifices and worship to a dark lord to time. :rolleyes:

The dude was misinformed about somethings, but the responses here are from the other side of the debate. Either of these can be good guns, truth be told. It really just depends on what you want to do, and what you are looking for.

Heck, I watched a guy turn the allen screw on the back of the bolt in his Cocker to "adjust the speed" for 10 minutes before I saw it pop out and realized what he was doing this weekend. READ THE DAMN MANUAL!!! :rofl:

I have also watched people put in a Mag valve with no on/off and ***** about what a POS it was.

All things being equal...stupid people trump good markers.

[OneUp]

I think it's also a matter of what a player is comfortable with, their playing style, and their budget. Oddly enough, most of the walk-ons I play with happen to have fairly high-end electronic markers. I'm the only female in my state that plays with an Automag, and fortunately the paintball stores are quite respectful of brand name markers. The downside to being an Automag owner here is finding someone who knows how to properly work on one. So far, I haven't had the need to have anything done to my ULE marker, and it's been about 4 years.

lies, girls don't play paintball. ;)

[AirAssault]

Mags suck!!

They are heavy, shoot slow, you can't find parts to fix em when they break, and I heard its what terrorists train with.

Viva la VM68!

That is all.

[DBC]

I bought my first marker a year ago. I did a lot of research before I decided on the Tac-One. I almost bought a Palmer, but since the AutoMag was a bit less expensive, I went with it. I have not regretted my decision. I could tell that the guy in the shop I bought it from did not think I was doing the right thing. He (and everyone else I talked to) said I should buy an electronic marker or if I really wanted a mechanical marker, I should get a Tippman.

I play woods ball and speed ball with my Tac-One. While playing speed ball, I don’t have any problem holding my own against the electros. Of course, most speed ball players don’t know what an AutoMag is. I can shoot it fast enough that most think it is electronic.

My feeling is that players who are use to electronic markers think shooting a mechanical marker is hard, even if it has the ULT. They short stroke it and can’t pull the trigger that fast, so I think that is part of the reason why AutoMags are not taken seriously.

[athomas]

Mags just work and work and work.

I love all of mine and never have problems with maintenance. I also have an Angel that is great too. I only buy quality guns. I love playing and it seams like everyone else is always working on their guns while I'm playing. I take my guns apart once a year and that is it. Mags are simple and easy to maintain.

I have no problems playing games against electros when using my retromag.

[jetgirl86]

lies, girls don't play paintball. ;)

LOL

What does that make Bea Youngs, then? Oh yeah, one killer distraction! LOL

[z1p101]

Ahh, the mag vs. cocker debate rages on.

All I can say is that I've owned both and liked them both for different reasons, but.....

I bought my first cocker in 93 and I have no idea where it is now.

I bought my first mag in 92, I still own it and it shoots better than the day I bought it.

Draw your own conclusions if you would like. :rolleyes:

[pump]

Ahh, the mag vs. cocker debate rages on.

All I can say is that I've owned both and liked them both for different reasons, but.....

I bought my first cocker in 93 and I have no idea where it is now.

I bought my first mag in 92, I still own it and it shoots better than the day I bought it.

Draw your own conclusions if you would like. :rolleyes:
man we need another mag vs. cocker debate!!!!!!

i love both guns and recent developments make for great discussions

[Anjin3515]

man we need another mag vs. cocker debate!!!!!!

i love both guns and recent developments make for great discussions


what recent developments are you talking about?

[z1p101]

what recent developments are you talking about?
Must be the WGP fire sale that is going on at every on line store now (05 Super Stock cheaper than an Ion :eek: ) or the new guns they are coming out with. Can't tell.

[pump]

well not that recent.....but its good info to fan the flames of WAR!!!

classic valves can do 20 bps
cockers and mqs


just fun stuff to argue about


but again not suitable for this thread

[z1p101]

well not that recent.....but its good info to fan the flames of WAR!!!

classic valves can do 20 bps
cockers and mqs


just fun stuff to argue about


but again not suitable for this thread
lol :spit_take

PBN is a better place for that.

[OneUp]

LOL

What does that make Bea Youngs, then? Oh yeah, one killer distraction! LOL

Well I know if I played her I'd still be pointing my barrel and balls her way, and shooting some paint....



wait..... :tard:




ahem but what's causing cocker prices to go down tho.

[Anjin3515]

Well I know if I played her I'd still be pointing my barrel and balls her way, and shooting some paint....



wait..... :tard:




ahem but what's causing cocker prices to go down tho.


not sure...best guess is new lineup coming....

[Beemer]

classic valves can do 20 bps

Shhh no they cant. :ninja: Dont need 1000psi to do it either.

Next time just ask the guy if he wants to see the vid of the Classic at 20bps FA. :eek:

[Anjin3515]

LOL....it happened again today....

At the shop to pick up some new Profilers (had to get them after my wife got hers s :) )

There is a guy buying a PM7....he is asking the store guy and another customer if he should get the PM7 or an Ion. :confused:
All of us start talking guns, upgrades, hoppers....the whole thing.....

The other customer (not the one buying) asked what I shot.....
told him I had an A-5 and was getting an Automag soon............then came the rolled eyes and the typical statement of..."wow...aren't they out of business...didn't they stop making stuff 5 years ago?"

No...I said they are still in business, and doing fine....still make some of the best stuff out there......
"man I thought they were long dead" was his only response......


I think that this is a battle that may never be won, I think people will just have this sort of response....oh well so be it.....I dont care if the whole world think's AGD is dead.....as long as I get my Tac-One.....then all is well :clap:

[RogueFactor]

I think that this is a battle that may never be won, I think people will just have this sort of response....oh well so be it.....I dont care if the whole world think's AGD is dead.....as long as I get my Tac-One.....then all is well :clap:

The strange part about that in your area, is that your in AGD's backyard(IL).

[pyrodragon]

dude, don't let them get you down, mow them down with your mag. somehow while playing the last scenario game, one of the refs was amazed that i stilled played with a mag and then was shocked that i was willing to jump in and learn to build an autococker. needless to say that ref prety much followed me around with the camera taking photos of me that morning. here's one of the pics.
http://www.shaggybrotherspaintball.com/Articles_Pics/IwoJima2/DSCF1061.jpg

[Argelmcgee]

I hate to go off topic... but...

I see you have the Battlestickxx, do you like how it shoots, Pyrodragon? I have the 5-fin kit, but I have yet to shoot it (trial by fire tomorrow).

Also, the .688 and .690 bores had these really small scratches in the fins, I'm pretty sure they'll affect accuracy, so I'm going to send them in to Hammerhead under the warranty. Everything else looks excellent.

Back on topic...

It's sorta funny, I see very few mags at my home field, but at the scenarios I go to, I usually see quite a few. At NJ Nam, there were mags right and left, and at EMR's Apocalypse Now, same thing, mags were everywhere. Now I'm joining the gang... :shooting:

[Ninjeff]

The peopel at my field have lots of respect for the automag. Maybe they are just smart, or maybe they've learned form seeing me every weekend.


Funny thing happened a few weeks ago: I was using my prostock just for giggles and one of the refs asked
"Hey jeff, where is the mag?"
"oh, its in my bag...why?" i said

"Oh well, thats a relief. I thought something broke on it....and that thing NEVER breaks.".

[pyrodragon]

I hate to go off topic... but...

I see you have the Battlestickxx, do you like how it shoots, Pyrodragon? I have the 5-fin kit, but I have yet to shoot it (trial by fire tomorrow).

Actually i borrowed the battlestickxx from the tank driver to test it out. i have a twistlock armson stleath and loved it and always wanted something like it. i love the hammerhead barrels. looking to buy a kit myself. i'm sold on it. especially when you do this while borrowing a barrel:

http://www.shaggybrotherspaintball.com/Articles_Pics/IwoJima2/DSCF1066.jpg

look at his chest.

[MichaelMcKen]

I will say this though, the current blowout prices on WGP guns is amazing. $166 for that superstock is ... ridiculous really. You can barely buy a level 10 classic for that.

I saw WGP Pro Stocks on a website the other day for $99 each. It's kinda crazy isn't it?

Mike