Mother of all drug busts???

[druid]

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=49750&cl=3810206&ch=61492&src=news

$352 million, 5 metric tons of drugs(11,023 pounds)

wow....and GOOD!!!

[Glickman]

good time to have put stock in coca-...

i mean...

government bonds?

[AirAssault]

When are people going to realize, drugs are not the problem, people that do them are. Legalize it, tax it and let responsible people consume it in a responsible way. If you take away the criminal part of all drugs, the drug related crimes will drop like a stone. Other countries with either legal or relaxed laws regarding drugs do not have the same crime issues related to them as we do here in the US. The billions spent on the so called "war on drugs" is a joke. It wastes tax payer dollars that could be used on other needed projects.

[KC]

When are people going to realize, drugs are not the problem, people that do them are. Legalize it, tax it and let responsible people consume it in a responsible way. If you take away the criminal part of all drugs, the drug related crimes will drop like a stone. Other countries with either legal or relaxed laws regarding drugs do not have the same crime issues related to them as we do here in the US. The billions spent on the so called "war on drugs" is a joke. It wastes tax payer dollars that could be used on other needed projects.

:cheers:

[bornl33t]

When are people going to realize, drugs are not the problem, people that do them are. Legalize it, tax it and let responsible people consume it in a responsible way. If you take away the criminal part of all drugs, the drug related crimes will drop like a stone. Other countries with either legal or relaxed laws regarding drugs do not have the same crime issues related to them as we do here in the US. The billions spent on the so called "war on drugs" is a joke. It wastes tax payer dollars that could be used on other needed projects.

You're not ahead anymore but it's time you not say anything for a while. :tard:

[AirAssault]

You're not ahead anymore but it's time you not say anything for a while. :tard:


I shouldn't say anything for a while because YOU don't agree with what I have to say? LOL, sure, Ill be quiet. :spit_take

I know my way of thinking is hard for some, such as yourself, to handle. It's ok to have your head barried in the sand, heck most of America is doing the same thing. Pull it on out and look around, it's ok, give it a try you may discover a few things.


Or is it another place people have their head?

[Madmarx]

AA for President!!! :hail:

[iambored]

When are people going to realize, drugs are not the problem, people that do them are. Legalize it, tax it and let responsible people consume it in a responsible way. If you take away the criminal part of all drugs, the drug related crimes will drop like a stone. Other countries with either legal or relaxed laws regarding drugs do not have the same crime issues related to them as we do here in the US. The billions spent on the so called "war on drugs" is a joke. It wastes tax payer dollars that could be used on other needed projects.
I support this opinion. And if not this, lets join Canada and the Netherlands in there drug policy. (Though I think hard drug/soft drug thing is stupid. All things carry possibility of addiction in one form or another.)

[Glickman]

I shouldn't say anything for a while because YOU don't agree with what I have to say? LOL, sure, Ill be quiet. :spit_take

I know my way of thinking is hard for some, such as yourself, to handle. It's ok to have your head barried in the sand, heck most of America is doing the same thing. Pull it on out and look around, it's ok, give it a try you may discover a few things.


Or is it another place people have their head?

"drugs" like ganga are only illegal due to lobbying, and should be legalized (imo)

the drugs that ARE illegal because of their destructive properties are (duh) really dangerous. and you must be really, really dumb if you think that the overall nation would benefit from legalizing stuff like meth, or cocaine.

addiction carries only a little weight compared to how easily narcotics can destroy your body...

the "taboo" factor obviously applies to everything illegal, but by decriminalizing hard drugs, your saying yes, it might not be "cool" anymore to do drugs, but you ARE saying the FDA finds it ok to ingest.

[AirAssault]

"drugs" like ganga are only illegal due to lobbying, and should be legalized (imo)

the drugs that ARE illegal because of their destructive properties are (duh) really dangerous. and you must be really, really dumb if you think that the overall nation would benefit from legalizing stuff like meth, or cocaine.

addiction carries only a little weight compared to how easily narcotics can destroy your body...

the "taboo" factor obviously applies to everything illegal, but by decriminalizing hard drugs, your saying yes, it might not be "cool" anymore to do drugs, but you ARE saying the FDA finds it ok to ingest.

Again, it is not the drugs fault someone can't handle it, do it without being out of control and so forth. Alcohol causes WAY more issues than any other drug and for some reason I can still go buy that. I have never done heroin or PCP and making it legal will not "make" me want to do it. I have had the chance many many times to do both, but really had no desire. Those inclined to do drugs will do them, those that are not wont, simple fact. You may get a small part of the population that will try it if it is legalized, but not very many IMHO.

[Hexis]

the drugs that ARE illegal because of their destructive properties are (duh) really dangerous. and you must be really, really dumb if you think that the overall nation would benefit from legalizing stuff like meth, or cocaine.

addiction carries only a little weight compared to how easily narcotics can destroy your body...


In the scientific context neither cocaine nor methamphetamine are narcotics.

In the US Legal sense, cocaine is, but only by wordage.

Both are heavy stimulants and do not act like opioid substances.

[rkjunior303]

"drugs" like ganga are only illegal due to lobbying, and should be legalized (imo)

the drugs that ARE illegal because of their destructive properties are (duh) really dangerous. and you must be really, really dumb if you think that the overall nation would benefit from legalizing stuff like meth, or cocaine.

addiction carries only a little weight compared to how easily narcotics can destroy your body...

the "taboo" factor obviously applies to everything illegal, but by decriminalizing hard drugs, your saying yes, it might not be "cool" anymore to do drugs, but you ARE saying the FDA finds it ok to ingest.

what about cigarettes or alcohol? one could argue they are just as destructive to the body if ABUSED.

[Muzikman]

When are people going to realize, drugs are not the problem, people that do them are. Legalize it, tax it and let responsible people consume it in a responsible way. If you take away the criminal part of all drugs, the drug related crimes will drop like a stone. Other countries with either legal or relaxed laws regarding drugs do not have the same crime issues related to them as we do here in the US. The billions spent on the so called "war on drugs" is a joke. It wastes tax payer dollars that could be used on other needed projects.


I assume you are not a drug user, never have been a drug user and do not know any one who has died from drug use.

There are some drugs that wouldn't hurt anyone to be legalized and there are plenty more that would. It's those drugs that cause the most problem.

You never hear about a pot deal gone bad. It's the hard core drugs, the drugs that you can do once and die. They are the drugs people are willing to kill to get.

And ok, so you leaglize and tax those drugs. Do you think it's going to make them cheaper? hell no, it's going to raise the cost because now instead of making them in your basement, they are going to have to be federaly regulated and made by drug companies. So your $15 rock of crack just went up to $50. So now you need to rob more people to get more money so you can buy the same (or less) amounts of drugs.

Think a little.

[AirAssault]

I assume you are not a drug user, never have been a drug user and do not know any one who has died from drug use.

There are some drugs that wouldn't hurt anyone to be legalized and there are plenty more that would. It's those drugs that cause the most problem.

You never hear about a pot deal gone bad. It's the hard core drugs, the drugs that you can do once and die. They are the drugs people are willing to kill to get.

And ok, so you leaglize and tax those drugs. Do you think it's going to make them cheaper? hell no, it's going to raise the cost because now instead of making them in your basement, they are going to have to be federaly regulated and made by drug companies. So your $15 rock of crack just went up to $50. So now you need to rob more people to get more money so you can buy the same (or less) amounts of drugs.

Think a little.

I don't know any one that has died from drug use. The fact that they died while using drugs simply proves my point. It's not the drug but the people that do them. I have been a casual user of many different drugs at different times in my life. Yet was able to go to college, serve time in the military, and hold a job without robbing the local 7-11 to get my next "fix". Responsible use of any drug (cigs, alcohol, meth, cocaine, mary J, and so forth) in no way keeps the user from living a productive life. I don't see how legalizing a drug will cause the price to go up significantly. If anything take away the criminal aspect and it is most likely going to lower the cost. What happened when the 18th amendment was put in effect? Then the 21st? There is your model right there.

[Established420]

40,000 Pounds of cocaine seized.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3c0_1187906928

[warpig13]

Being a former addict of various drugs and substances myself, I mostly agree with AirAssualt, but also with Muzikman.

The fact that anyone does drugs is the problem. But the way the United States handles the war on drugs creates a higher sence of "rush" while doing drugs. Hate to do it, but the way Amsterdam (and yes, I've been there) is arranged it allows havens for drug use where people can get their fix, but then go to work. I have seen countless interviews and had first hand conversations with people that Pot, however, said these havens allowed them to hold jobs and suport a family simply by being able to go by once a day and getting their needs taken care of.

HOWEVER, the fact that people have to view drugs as a need is completely and utterly sad. Hardcore drugsare the man focus here. They are highly addictive and usually hook people on their first try. A drug known as "cheese", a mixture of heroin and Tylenol(sp?) PM killed 26 teens in Dallas their first time using it!

Pot, however, could be legalized, taxed, and controlled and benefit the midwest. States like Iowa could crop it and maybe get some population back to the withered state. This will infact never happen, complete fantasy, but it would be nice....or cool.

Experiencing first hand the physical and emotion toll of more hardcore drugs, there is no need for drugs like heroin, crack, cocaine or meth to be around. Mushrooms, acid, and X also have no purpose....but I won't lie....it is quite an experience :p ....until a bad trip :(

[Muzikman]

I don't know any one that has died from drug use. The fact that they died while using drugs simply proves my point. It's not the drug but the people that do them. I have been a casual user of many different drugs at different times in my life. Yet was able to go to college, serve time in the military, and hold a job without robbing the local 7-11 to get my next "fix". Responsible use of any drug (cigs, alcohol, meth, cocaine, mary J, and so forth) in no way keeps the user from living a productive life. I don't see how legalizing a drug will cause the price to go up significantly. If anything take away the criminal aspect and it is most likely going to lower the cost. What happened when the 18th amendment was put in effect? Then the 21st? There is your model right there.


No, it has nothing to do with the people, it's the drugs. They would be alive today if it wasn't for them. Heroin can kill you the first time you use it. Has nothing to do with the person and if you think so you are ignorant. Just because you smoked a little pot, popped a few pills and came out alive doesn't make you any better of a person than they were.

Your words and thoughts are those of an immature person.

[maxama10]

http://www.esse.ou.edu/~cwaller/204_mkaymackey.JPG

[AirAssault]

No, it has nothing to do with the people, it's the drugs. They would be alive today if it wasn't for them. Heroin can kill you the first time you use it. Has nothing to do with the person and if you think so you are ignorant. Just because you smoked a little pot, popped a few pills and came out alive doesn't make you any better of a person than they were.

Your words and thoughts are those of an immature person.


Well opinions are like a certain part of the body, every one has one and they all stink.

So how many people have used the drug and NOT died the first time? You can drink to much and die too. So the fact that a person decides to shoot heroin and OD's is not the drugs fault. The person USED the drug, the drug didn't just jump up and enter their body. Yeah, the PERSON did it, not the drug.

[AirAssault]

http://www.esse.ou.edu/~cwaller/204_mkaymackey.JPG


mmmmmkay

[Lohman446]

Again, it is not the drugs fault someone can't handle it, do it without being out of control and so forth. Alcohol causes WAY more issues than any other drug and for some reason I can still go buy that. I have never done heroin or PCP and making it legal will not "make" me want to do it. I have had the chance many many times to do both, but really had no desire. Those inclined to do drugs will do them, those that are not wont, simple fact. You may get a small part of the population that will try it if it is legalized, but not very many IMHO.

You don't honestly beleive the affects and issues of meth (for instance) are less than that of alchohol do you?

Keep your argument away from effects. For instance - I don't beleive the federal government has the authority or right to regulate drugs ACCEPT when they directly cross state lines. As such I beleive all federal drug laws should be found unconstiutional based on the simple fact drug regulation is not one of the federal governments enumerated powers.

When your argument gets into "there not as dangerous as...." it becomes idiotic.

[warpig13]

You don't honestly beleive the affects and issues of meth (for instance) are less than that of alchohol do you?



100% true.

I speak to adults in local rehab centers about this stuff. Alcohol is no where near dangerous as any hardcore drug. People are too incapacitated from drugs to even drive, that's why you rarely hear about drug related driving deaths.

[Muzikman]

I personally do not know anyone who has died from drinking one beer. I do however know people who have died from one fix. If you serious want to make hardcore drugs legal and don't think there would be issues with it, you sir have a problem...and it very well might be a drug problem.

[Steelrat]

When are people going to realize, drugs are not the problem, people that do them are. Legalize it, tax it and let responsible people consume it in a responsible way. If you take away the criminal part of all drugs, the drug related crimes will drop like a stone. Other countries with either legal or relaxed laws regarding drugs do not have the same crime issues related to them as we do here in the US. The billions spent on the so called "war on drugs" is a joke. It wastes tax payer dollars that could be used on other needed projects.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Pot is one thing, but do you really think legalized meth, heroin, and crack is a good idea? If so, you must not deal with people who use it. I do, all the time, and the physical effects, as well as the addiction issues, make those people unable to function for long, or at all, in normal society.

Plus, you assume people will use it in a "responsible" way. How do you use it responsibly when there are issues with dependancy and addiction? Have you EVER met a "responsible" meth user? There is no such thing.

[PyRo]

I say we make all drugs legal. Their will however be no free or reduced cost health care for any ailment resulting from drug use. You go to a hospital with an overdose, you pay the bill, your assets are seized, or if you have no money or assets you either get thrown out on the street street with no treatment or sent to a labor camp until your medical bill is paid in full. Their will also be no government aid whatsoever for anyone found to be using drugs. No welfare, housing, soup kitchens, etc.

My taxes are high enough without paying for some broke junkies care (although the government supports plenty of them already).

[bornl33t]

My taxes are high enough without paying for some broke junkies care (although the government supports plenty of them already).

That's my point right there. I support drugs, I think that everyone should have the right to overdose and solve our over population problem. I think that our government is limiting the concept of survival of the fittest by supporting all the trash in this world who are not by any means entitled to welfare,...with my money none the less.

But that's exactly the reason drugs need to stay banned, because if it were legalized then my taxes would go up to cover the medical bills and well inability to support one self.

[MANN]

My stance is legalize everything

Drugs... Hey if people are stupid enought to use them surly they wont be stupid enought to get addictided, have crack babies, kill people while driving, abuse their spouses and kids.

Prostitution... Hey if someone wants to get paid to screw then who cares. Shortly we can rape anyone we want, and give them 20 bucks for their time.

Murder... Hey some people should just be killed IMO. Lets tax it so only the wealthy can afford to kill others. Heck it would be easier then helping them with healthcare.

Theft... Why should someone be able to horde all of the money. Share the wealth.

:dodgy:

Come on guys. Please tell me that you are smart enough to keep drugs from being legalized.

[MANN]

My taxes are high enough without paying for some broke junkies care (although the government supports plenty of them already).

Vote against Barak Osoma, John Whatever his last name is, and Bill Clinton in 08

[AirAssault]

Vote against Barak Osoma, John Whatever his last name is, and Bill Clinton in 08

Yeah because starting wars to put money in your buddies pockets is SUCH a better alternative. Where do you think the money to pay for it is gonna come from? You can't cut taxes and fight a feakin 177 MILLION a DAY war. Yeah, THAT'S gonna help America.

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/Cost-of-War/Cost-of-War-3.html

For all you freakin out, I never said legalizing drugs would make people stop overdosing and killing themselves on drugs. Guess what it is already happening NOW. I am saying taking the criminal element out of it will reduce the freakin crime associated with it.

[maxama10]

http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/901/9012_im_gay.jpg

Jesus Christ you guys. Let's keep this on topic.

[Steelrat]

For all you freakin out, I never said legalizing drugs would make people stop overdosing and killing themselves on drugs. Guess what it is already happening NOW. I am saying taking the criminal element out of it will reduce the freakin crime associated with it.

How will it reduce the crime associated with it? If you have to steal to pay for your drugs now, how will you do it if it's legal? Plus, there is a certain amount of deterance just in having the drugs be illegal. Would you prefer that everyone give it a try? You know, a hit or two of meth, just to see what it's like?

[MANN]

Yeah because starting wars to put money in your buddies pockets is SUCH a better alternative. Where do you think the money to pay for it is gonna come from? You can't cut taxes and fight a feakin 177 MILLION a DAY war. Yeah, THAT'S gonna help America.

Didnt you know that the mob really runs everything. He is the one who tells Bush what to do.

Seriously you dont say that in public do you? :D

[paintballfiend]

Mushrooms, acid also have no purpose

O RLY? :spit_take

The general rule people should follow is. "If it's white it ain't right".

If everyone just got over their fear we could all have a good time.

[billybob_81067]

Blah blah drugs blah blah...

On a related note, I read an article yesterday that adding calcium nitrate to anhydrous ammonia used for fertilizer makes it practically impossible to make meth with it. It said that untreated anhydrous ammonia makes about a 42% yield of meth whereas a with a treated anhydrous yields drop to %2 or less.

I sense that meth will soon be rare :p

[MANN]

Blah blah drugs blah blah...

On a related note, I read an article yesterday that adding calcium nitrate to anhydrous ammonia used for fertilizer makes it practically impossible to make meth with it. It said that untreated anhydrous ammonia makes about a 42% yield of meth whereas a with a treated anhydrous yields drop to %2 or less.

I sense that meth will soon be rare :p

On my way to get more un calcium nitrate anhydrous ammonia right now. :ninja:

[AirAssault]

O RLY? :spit_take

The general rule people should follow is. "If it's white it ain't right".

If everyone just got over their fear we could all have a good time.

:cheers:

[Steelrat]

Blah blah drugs blah blah...

On a related note, I read an article yesterday that adding calcium nitrate to anhydrous ammonia used for fertilizer makes it practically impossible to make meth with it. It said that untreated anhydrous ammonia makes about a 42% yield of meth whereas a with a treated anhydrous yields drop to %2 or less.

I sense that meth will soon be rare :p

Forget it. Most of it's made in Mexico now, where there are chemical companies that are very happy to make whatever chemicals are needed for the large meth labs there.

[Steelrat]

O RLY? :spit_take

The general rule people should follow is. "If it's white it ain't right".

If everyone just got over their fear we could all have a good time.

I've got a good one for the pro-drug crowd. You can use as much of it as you like, but if you're caught operating a motor vehicle while high, or engaging in any other activity that places people OTHER than you at risk while under the influence of drugs, you go to jail for at least 10 years, automatically. Sound fair?

[beam]

To support legalizing something like meth is insane. People with that stance have NO idea what that drug can and WILL do. If you want to say it's the people and not the drugs...well, meth can kill you with one hit, but even if it doesn't, it can so warp your physiology that a person really has no control over the addiction anymore. It is one nasty drug...but then again, it was invented by the Nazis...so what would you expect?

[paintballfiend]

I've got a good one for the pro-drug crowd. You can use as much of it as you like, but if you're caught operating a motor vehicle while high, or engaging in any other activity that places people OTHER than you at risk while under the influence of drugs, you go to jail for at least 10 years, automatically. Sound fair?
Duh, whoever decides to drive high should be in jail. It's called being responsible. If you have to drive then don't get intoxicated.

[PyRo]

I've got a good one for the pro-drug crowd. You can use as much of it as you like, but if you're caught operating a motor vehicle while high, or engaging in any other activity that places people OTHER than you at risk while under the influence of drugs, you go to jail for at least 10 years, automatically. Sound fair?
That doesn't sound fair. Guess whose shoulders financing all the new jails is going to fall on? I like my labor camp idea. You get to do some lousy work, make $10/hr, pay income taxes, and your salary is garnished to cover room & board as well as pay the guards salaries and any other costs associated with running the place.

[kenndogg]

That doesn't sound fair. Guess whose shoulders financing all the new jails is going to fall on? I like my labor camp idea. You get to do some lousy work, make $10/hr, pay income taxes, and your salary is garnished to cover room & board as well as pay the guards salaries and any other costs associated with running the place.

PyRo for president :cheers:

[Steelrat]

That doesn't sound fair. Guess whose shoulders financing all the new jails is going to fall on? I like my labor camp idea. You get to do some lousy work, make $10/hr, pay income taxes, and your salary is garnished to cover room & board as well as pay the guards salaries and any other costs associated with running the place.

Then just shoot 'em.

[iambored]

Do I believe in the legalization of Drugs: Yes. Do I believe everyone should access to them: Yes. Do I believe Alcohol is extremely dangerous: Yes, people put up the argument one beer can't kill you; but then again 15mg's of Heroin can't kill you either. And for those who say it's insanity to legalize Meth, It is legal. You want some? Fake extreme ADHD or get fat. the doc will give you round pills with an "m" on them. Over the last few years many of the drugs that the government said would kill you have suddenly became legal in some form or another. Ecstasy? Legal for PTSS. GHB: Alcoholism. Amphetamines in general: ADD/ADHD. THC (The main chemical in Cannabis): chemotherapy related nausea. If your local high school drop out can make these "illegal" substances, then a large company can make them very cheaply. Oh, wait that's done in some parts of India already (small businesses making huge amounts of these substances). Legalization of these drugs would get rid of "cutting." And before any of that, "My facts are from the anti-drug commercials" its been proven that most of the fact in them are questionable, at the very least.

[iambored]

That doesn't sound fair. Guess whose shoulders financing all the new jails is going to fall on? I like my labor camp idea. You get to do some lousy work, make $10/hr, pay income taxes, and your salary is garnished to cover room & board as well as pay the guards salaries and any other costs associated with running the place.
Sounds like the City farm in VA. they do most of the road side lawn mowing.
//Sorry for double posting.

[teufelhunden]

You can't cut taxes and fight a feakin 177 MILLION a DAY war.


Actually, quite the opposite occurs. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18595849/

Since Bush's tax cuts, the IRS keeps collecting more and more money. Hm. Is it because supply side economics really do work? Perhaps?

Now we get your "spend it like we stole it" Democrats [hm they kinda did] away from anything of importance, kill spending, lower the taxes to a point where the government has enough to run off of while paying back our national debt at a pace that will get us out of the hole in X number of years and all is well.

[FiXeL]

When are people going to realize, drugs are not the problem, people that do them are. Legalize it, tax it and let responsible people consume it in a responsible way. If you take away the criminal part of all drugs, the drug related crimes will drop like a stone. Other countries with either legal or relaxed laws regarding drugs do not have the same crime issues related to them as we do here in the US. The billions spent on the so called "war on drugs" is a joke. It wastes tax payer dollars that could be used on other needed projects.

No, you are making it sound like it's ok to use drugs and it's not. Alot of hard substances cannot be consumed in a responsible way due to their addictive properties. Heroin, Crack, Cocaine are very addictive, and even pot can be addictive.

Let's just say legalise everything. Drug related crimes would drop, sure. But the cost for medical attention would skyrocket.


Other countries with either legal or relaxed laws regarding drugs do not have the same crime issues related to them as we do here in the US.

I come from the Netherlands and we have the very same problems with drugs. Only over here they don't inprison you for possesion. Sure you are allowed to buy and consume small quantities of weed over here in coffeshops, but those shops are a breeding ground for juvile delinqents and some shops sell other illegal substances under the counter. Also alot of people that go to coffeshops also use other drugs and are often criminals, or have criminal records. The kids that come there are between 16-20yrs and are very likely to experiment with other drugs. Then you have "house dealers" officially they only sell weed or hashish, but alot of them also will eagerly sell you something else.

The thing with drugs is you try it and if you like it you will do it again. After a while you try something else. And there's your problem.

Weed looks very harmless but they grow some very potent weed that has so much THC in it, it should be classified as hard drugs and usually it's a stepping stone to try something else. And strangely enough you can buy it legally in the netherlands. The production is illegal tho, but most of the people that produce it are more or less involved in a criminal organisation, depending on the scale of their operation. Sometimes weed farms are so big that they use old warehouses and huge green houses to grow the stuff. Electricity is offcourse illegally tapped.

Drugs are not the cause of the problem, but is a result. Why do people use drugs? Most people i've known using drugs are under class, no education, criminal records, unemployed, poor, no perspective in life.

If you could change that, drug usage would drop.

[druid]

tl;dr all the other responses. I will later when I get home from working a double shift...


When are people going to realize, drugs are not the problem, people that do them are. Legalize it, tax it and let responsible people consume it in a responsible way. If you take away the criminal part of all drugs, the drug related crimes will drop like a stone. Other countries with either legal or relaxed laws regarding drugs do not have the same crime issues related to them as we do here in the US. The billions spent on the so called "war on drugs" is a joke. It wastes tax payer dollars that could be used on other needed projects.

When are you going to realize that society n general will never cater to this desire? Kalifornia has been trying it for decades...the most progressive and tolerent State my ***. Look at it's major cities...the largest populations of freaks in any city of comparable size, 2nd highest murder rate in the Nation (surpassed only by DC), largest prison system of all the States (and not for 'just' drug use per se), largest gang populations, seconded by New York and why? Prevenelce of drugs/sales and usage. Support that?....yer living in your own little pipe dream.


I shouldn't say anything for a while because YOU don't agree with what I have to say? LOL, sure, Ill be quiet. :spit_take
Nope...everyone's entitled to their opinion...even when they are wrong
I know my way of thinking is hard for some, such as yourself, to handle. It's ok to have your head barried in the sand, heck most of America is doing the same thing.
Wrong. Most of America ISN'T doing the same thing - only the rebellious juveniles that ::awwwwwww::...has so much pressure to deal with ::awwwwwwwwwww:: at the ripe old age of 14...please - Spare us the Liberal diatribe of lame excuses to run against the grain of societal "normality." The only head that's buried in the sand is the one thinking that taxing this crap is going to make life 'better'.
Pull it on out and look around, it's ok, give it a try you may discover a few things.
I'm sure he'd like to but sand is one of the best ways to protect one from getting mired in cow flops...
Or is it another place people have their head?

From a Law Enforcement perspective:
1. You cannot allow the numbing/dumbing of people who are in control of others...bus drivers, truckers hauling chemicals/explosives, et al, teachers, babysitters, police, firefighters, military personnel....etc etc
2. You cannot allow the rapist or diaper sniper (sexual child predator) easier access to additional "party favors" for their crimes of choice
3. People are already idiots...they don't need any more snorted/injected retard powder or moron juice...
4. When their health fails, the burden of the health care costs will fall on the rest of society...to which I already pay too much for the millions on welfare that refuse to go to work. You don't think they are going to pay for it themselves, do you? People already abuse the healthcare system by running to the emergency room for a snotty nose...instead of going to their family doctor where they might have to put some money down...
5. Sure....let everyone get stoned. Let them party until they black out for a few years. Let them wake out of their drug induced stupor, only to fnd out that we've been wiped out or overrun by some 2nd or 3rd world country with an attitude against our Nation...

You sir, only care about yourself and what's "in it for you". You need to leave our country until you are able to remove your own cramium from your own rectum...

[paintballfiend]

These drugs will never be legal because the government doesn't want any competition. They want you to use drugs, as long as it's their drugs. Why do you think there are so many people taking antidepressants? They make life more tolerable and keep people comfortable to the fact that our country is really messed up right now.
Another reason these drugs won't be legal is because people are too stupid to use them properly. I think coke, meth, heroine, etc. are horrible, but other drugs are meant to be tools to be used to get a better understanding of what the hell is going on.

[Steelrat]

These drugs will never be legal because the government doesn't want any competition. They want you to use drugs, as long as it's their drugs. Why do you think there are so many people taking antidepressants? They make life more tolerable and keep people comfortable to the fact that our country is really messed up right now.
Another reason these drugs won't be legal is because people are too stupid to use them properly. I think coke, meth, heroine, etc. are horrible, but other drugs are meant to be tools to be used to get a better understanding of what the hell is going on.

Conspiracytheory much? Watch out, the UN choppers are coming!

[paintballfiend]

Conspiracytheory much? Watch out, the UN choppers are coming!
If you say so. But don't worry about it man, think what you want to think. Leave the critical thinking to the people who have their head out their butt.
The problem is people are too caught up with what their neighbors are doing. If everyone first worried about what they are doing and worked on it, then they can worry about the people aroung them.

[Steelrat]

If you say so. But don't worry about it man, think what you want to think. Leave the critical thinking to the people who have their head out their butt.
The problem is people are too caught up with what their neighbors are doing. If everyone first worried about what they are doing and worked on it, then they can worry about the people aroung them.

I worry about the methhead who can't hold a job ripping off my crap to feed his habit. Know many hardcore drug users? If you could absolutely guarantee that legal drug users would stay in their house, not use public health care, not use public assistance, not go out in public while using drugs (including operating a motor vehicle), don't have kids, and wouldn't commit crime to fund their habit, then I'm all for it. Let 'em rot in their own stupidity. Otherwise, I gotta say no.

What about life is so bad that people need to take drugs to escape it?

[Steelrat]

If you say so. But don't worry about it man, think what you want to think. Leave the critical thinking to the people who have their head out their butt.
The problem is people are too caught up with what their neighbors are doing. If everyone first worried about what they are doing and worked on it, then they can worry about the people aroung them.

I also like how you think that because I don't believe your theory, I must not be a critical thinker. Do you even know my political beliefs?

[zipity_Bop]

When are people going to realize, drugs are not the problem, people that do them are. Legalize it, tax it and let responsible people consume it in a responsible way. If you take away the criminal part of all drugs, the drug related crimes will drop like a stone. Other countries with either legal or relaxed laws regarding drugs do not have the same crime issues related to them as we do here in the US. The billions spent on the so called "war on drugs" is a joke. It wastes tax payer dollars that could be used on other needed projects.
waste of tax dollars........ keeping drugs out of schools is a bad idea your right...

and how do you expect to eliminate the criminal side of drugs? I assume your talking about the dealers being the criminals... well since consuming the drugs is still illegal then its impossible to eliminate the criminal side..... and I hope you don't think there is such a thing as a responsible adult who consumes drugs.... And your right the relaxed laws in Jamaica have totally changed it, it's not like there is rampant poverty and underground crime... And there is no responsible way to consume a drug...

[FiXeL]

These drugs will never be legal because the government doesn't want any competition. They want you to use drugs, as long as it's their drugs. Why do you think there are so many people taking antidepressants? They make life more tolerable and keep people comfortable to the fact that our country is really messed up right now.
Another reason these drugs won't be legal is because people are too stupid to use them properly. I think coke, meth, heroine, etc. are horrible, but other drugs are meant to be tools to be used to get a better understanding of what the hell is going on.

Hah, Thou shall not steal - The goverment does not tolerate competition. But if this is planned? Well, i'm not the one to say it is. I do not live in the states, but i can give some examples of legal "drugs" in the netherlands. Cigarettes for example. Let's say i go out to buy a pack of marlboro... The price i pay for it consists of nearly 50% "Accijns" a fancy word for TAX. They say it is to prevent people from smoking, but every now and then they raise the tax. When i started to smoke 15 years ago, a pack of cigarettes was maybe $3. Nowadays its closer to $7. But people still smoke and pay the price anyways. A few years ago you could get cheap cigarettes from Zwitserland for like $3 the pack. (all the brands, no bootleg stuff) The loophole in the law was that you could ship 5 packs per time without paying tax. When the goverment got news of this, they ordered the post offices to hold your shipments until there was enough to pay taxes.

Another legal "drug" is alcohol. Also this is taxed for some reason. People like it, same as gasoline for their cars. Oh and guess what? They tax that too over here!! Gas prices are rediculous over here.


They make life more tolerable and keep people comfortable to the fact that our country is really messed up right now.

That's called running away from your problems. Drugs won't help you a darn bit from easing your problems, or what messed up country you think you live in.


I think coke, meth, heroine, etc. are horrible, but other drugs are meant to be tools to be used to get a better understanding of what the hell is going on.

Now you are talking out of your behind. Drugs are not a tool to get better understanding, they are a tool to flee your problems. Any drug is bad for you if you use it regulary, alcohol, tabacco, weed, medication, cocain, everything. Eventually you will come to a point where you get dependant on the substance to feel good. This will come sneaking in the night like a spider and you will not realise it before its too late. You will drop out of school, loose your job, loose your friends, your home. First stage is denial, you think everything is ok and you can deal with it. Well, the reality is often that you start to slip into a habit of slacking downward into a vicious circle. The hardest thing for a addict is to admit he is addicted, if you can't? Well good luck - You will need it.

If you think this is a load of BS, keep in mind that i have had my own little run in with drugs and done some terrible things. Nowadays i am staying as far away from drugs as i can.

[paintballfiend]

I worry about the methhead who can't hold a job ripping off my crap to feed his habit. Know many hardcore drug users? If you could absolutely guarantee that legal drug users would stay in their house, not use public health care, not use public assistance, not go out in public while using drugs (including operating a motor vehicle), don't have kids, and wouldn't commit crime to fund their habit, then I'm all for it. Let 'em rot in their own stupidity. Otherwise, I gotta say no.

What about life is so bad that people need to take drugs to escape it?
I do know may drug users, they hold jobs like anyone else and are pretty decent people all around. Keep in mind they don't use any "hardcore" drugs like meth, speed, coke, etc. because you would be stoopid to do so. I don't like those kinds of drugs, they do horrible things. Drugs don't make people do anything because in the end it's all about choice.

What I meant is not for people to escape their problems, but to view them from a different prospective. Weak minded people use drugs to escape their "reality", and not all drug users are weak minded.

[paintballfiend]

I also like how you think that because I don't believe your theory, I must not be a critical thinker. Do you even know my political beliefs?
All I'm saying is those who get it do and those who don't don't. This issue goes deeper than political beliefs sir.

[paintballfiend]

Hah, Thou shall not steal - The goverment does not tolerate competition. But if this is planned? Well, i'm not the one to say it is. I do not live in the states, but i can give some examples of legal "drugs" in the netherlands. Cigarettes for example. Let's say i go out to buy a pack of marlboro... The price i pay for it consists of nearly 50% "Accijns" a fancy word for TAX. They say it is to prevent people from smoking, but every now and then they raise the tax. When i started to smoke 15 years ago, a pack of cigarettes was maybe $3. Nowadays its closer to $7. But people still smoke and pay the price anyways. A few years ago you could get cheap cigarettes from Zwitserland for like $3 the pack. (all the brands, no bootleg stuff) The loophole in the law was that you could ship 5 packs per time without paying tax. When the goverment got news of this, they ordered the post offices to hold your shipments until there was enough to pay taxes.

Another legal "drug" is alcohol. Also this is taxed for some reason. People like it, same as gasoline for their cars. Oh and guess what? They tax that too over here!! Gas prices are rediculous over here.


That's called running away from your problems. Drugs won't help you a darn bit from easing your problems, or what messed up country you think you live in.


Now you are talking out of your behind. Drugs are not a tool to get better understanding, they are a tool to flee your problems. Any drug is bad for you if you use it regulary, alcohol, tabacco, weed, medication, cocain, everything. Eventually you will come to a point where you get dependant on the substance to feel good. This will come sneaking in the night like a spider and you will not realise it before its too late. You will drop out of school, loose your job, loose your friends, your home. First stage is denial, you think everything is ok and you can deal with it. Well, the reality is often that you start to slip into a habit of slacking downward into a vicious circle. The hardest thing for a addict is to admit he is addicted, if you can't? Well good luck - You will need it.

If you think this is a load of BS, keep in mind that i have had my own little run in with drugs and done some terrible things. Nowadays i am staying as far away from drugs as i can.
What I meant is they don't want competition on the "feel good" drug market. What would happen to the antideprresant market if you made weed legal?

Again, I'm not for using drugs to get away from your problrms, that is what the "white drugs" do to you. Aks anyone who has used Acid or Shrooms, either they really liked them or they really don't. Ha, I have dropped out of school and quit my job WAY before I did anything. I already depend of different kinds of stimulators to fight my boredom and to "escape" reality for a couple hours i.e. computer, iPod, television. These are the things doing harm. Also, drugs don't make you do anything, because it is always your choice when it comes down to it. You chose to lie, cheat, and steal to get what you wanted, another hit. We all desire to point the finger, but all you have to do is look in the mirror to find the one responsible.

[Lohman446]

For all you freakin out, I never said legalizing drugs would make people stop overdosing and killing themselves on drugs. Guess what it is already happening NOW. I am saying taking the criminal element out of it will reduce the freakin crime associated with it.

You did say that alchohol had more issues than all other drugs. When you did so you lost credibility.

Personally I think it should be legalized. My stance though is that consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want that does not directly hurt anyone else. If we are legislating health (OMG - drugs are bad for you) don't we need to legislate health. Where does it end? OMG, you don't meet the height / weight ratio, jail for you.

Our system of dealing with the drug "problem" through the punitive judicial system does not work. Other countries that have successfully dealt with it have focused on rehabilitation over punishment. Not that I think our government should have to deal with it at all personally, at least on a federal level.

Make drugs legal, remove the incredible amount of money spent on the war on drugs. Tax drugs heavily and use the money saved and earned to fund a national health care system for everyone of some type. Turn the DEA agents into border patrol agents and secure our borders.

[FiXeL]

What I meant is they don't want competition on the "feel good" drug market. What would happen to the antideprresant market if you made weed legal?

My guess would be that the antideprresant market would plummit, and the chocolade bar market would go up. (THC eats alot of calories and the effect can be remedied with sugar)

Again, I'm not for using drugs to get away from your problrms, that is what the "white drugs" do to you.

Wrong, all drugs do that. It just depends on the fact if you use it recreationally or to run away from your problems.

Aks anyone who has used Acid or Shrooms, either they really liked them or they really don't. Ha, I have dropped out of school and quit my job WAY before I did anything.

Never was a person for the halucinetic stuff, but i did drop out of school because i smoked too much weed and did not care.

I already depend of different kinds of stimulators to fight my boredom and to "escape" reality for a couple hours i.e. computer, iPod, television. These are the things doing harm.

These things can also be addictive, and yes they can do harm.

Also, drugs don't make you do anything, because it is always your choice when it comes down to it. You chose to lie, cheat, and steal to get what you wanted, another hit. We all desire to point the finger, but all you have to do is look in the mirror to find the one responsible.

Drugs can make you do very stupid things, because you think you can do anything when high. Been there, done that and luckily survived. Look in the mirror you say? Unfortunatly that is something addicts are not capable of.


See my added text in your quote. You should look into the mirror yourself because i sence some denial in your post. I've come clean, so should you. You are cheating on your own life, and will regret it afterwards. Maybe you arent at a point that it's out of control, but eventually it will.

Before i got help, i was stoned every day. I smoked atleast a gram of weed a day and more in the weekends. And at rave parties i used coke, speed and xtc. I stole to pay for that life and now i regret even doing so. My american uncle was a alcoholic, he drank half a bottle of whiskey just before he got married. He got into a program, and helped me out when i had this problem, convincing me to do rehab. Now i am 10 years further, and i have a home, a job and a good life. But i've could have owned a house instead of renting one, and my short term memory is still not that great.

Drugs are bad, and unfortunatly i know. Please don't make the mistakes i did.

[Steelrat]

See my added text in your quote. You should look into the mirror yourself because i sence some denial in your post. I've come clean, so should you. You are cheating on your own life, and will regret it afterwards. Maybe you arent at a point that it's out of control, but eventually it will.

Before i got help, i was stoned every day. I smoked atleast a gram of weed a day and more in the weekends. And at rave parties i used coke, speed and xtc. I stole to pay for that life and now i regret even doing so. My american uncle was a alcoholic, he drank half a bottle of whiskey just before he got married. He got into a program, and helped me out when i had this problem, convincing me to do rehab. Now i am 10 years further, and i have a home, a job and a good life. But i've could have owned a house instead of renting one, and my short term memory is still not that great.

Drugs are bad, and unfortunatly i know. Please don't make the mistakes i did.

Straight from the horse's mouth. If anyone should be listened to, it's FiXel apparently. He's been there and done that.

[Steelrat]

Drugs don't make people do anything because in the end it's all about choice.



Do you understand the concept of addiction? I mean the severe addiction that some drugs cause.

[paintballfiend]

See my added text in your quote. You should look into the mirror yourself because i sence some denial in your post. I've come clean, so should you. You are cheating on your own life, and will regret it afterwards. Maybe you arent at a point that it's out of control, but eventually it will.

Before i got help, i was stoned every day. I smoked atleast a gram of weed a day and more in the weekends. And at rave parties i used coke, speed and xtc. I stole to pay for that life and now i regret even doing so. My american uncle was a alcoholic, he drank half a bottle of whiskey just before he got married. He got into a program, and helped me out when i had this problem, convincing me to do rehab. Now i am 10 years further, and i have a home, a job and a good life. But i've could have owned a house instead of renting one, and my short term memory is still not that great.

Drugs are bad, and unfortunatly i know. Please don't make the mistakes i did.

I know certain drugs are just plain horrible and stupid to do. That is why I refuse to do coke, meth, speed, heroine, ecstacy, etc. I have had these drugs offered to me. All I could think of when it was presented to me was< " I know what you are and what you do, and the crap you are made out of, I don't want you, i don't even wnt to look at you, I am better than that, I am too strong for you". It's been weeks since I have done anything, and what I did was only enough to quiet the mental noise that is always going on in my head. To be honest mj is kids stuff, the "white stuff" is for the weak minded, and Acid/Shrooms are for those who seek more than other drugs.

[paintballfiend]

Do you understand the concept of addiction? I mean the severe addiction that some drugs cause.
All I'm saying is if you can choose what's for lunch you can still choose to get clean, continue the path you are on, or just end it and bite the bullet.

[warpig13]

All I'm saying is if you can choose what's for lunch you can still choose to get clean, continue the path you are on, or just end it and bite the bullet.

Been there.
Got clean.


Now I can't complain about a damn thing.

[AirAssault]

Do I believe in the legalization of Drugs: Yes. Do I believe everyone should access to them: Yes. Do I believe Alcohol is extremely dangerous: Yes, people put up the argument one beer can't kill you; but then again 15mg's of Heroin can't kill you either. And for those who say it's insanity to legalize Meth, It is legal. You want some? Fake extreme ADHD or get fat. the doc will give you round pills with an "m" on them. Over the last few years many of the drugs that the government said would kill you have suddenly became legal in some form or another. Ecstasy? Legal for PTSS. GHB: Alcoholism. Amphetamines in general: ADD/ADHD. THC (The main chemical in Cannabis): chemotherapy related nausea. If your local high school drop out can make these "illegal" substances, then a large company can make them very cheaply. Oh, wait that's done in some parts of India already (small businesses making huge amounts of these substances). Legalization of these drugs would get rid of "cutting." And before any of that, "My facts are from the anti-drug commercials" its been proven that most of the fact in them are questionable, at the very least.

:cheers: :cheers:


Had to go with 2 cheers on that one. I wasn't even GOING to get into this, glad you did.

[AirAssault]

One little side note. They don't include the spending in Iraq in the budget, so kinda blows
that to poo......


Didn't we have a budget surplus when one of those "spend it like we stole it" dems was in the white house?


Actually, quite the opposite occurs. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18595849/

Since Bush's tax cuts, the IRS keeps collecting more and more money. Hm. Is it because supply side economics really do work? Perhaps?

Now we get your "spend it like we stole it" Democrats [hm they kinda did] away from anything of importance, kill spending, lower the taxes to a point where the government has enough to run off of while paying back our national debt at a pace that will get us out of the hole in X number of years and all is well.

[Lohman446]

The "its not that bad for you" argument is BS. Many of meth problems come from the very dirty way in which it is made on the street. It can be lab made and be far far safer (it is, in very controlled forms). That being said even that is dangerous enough and has very destructive properties.

I know for a fact that people can use meth in a controlled fashion and wean themselves off of it. I also know many very very smart / controlled people who could not. This is not like making a choice for lunch, those who used it in a controlled fashion built a lifestyle around it, and there is a very distinct physical addiction.

THat being said - I support the concept of severe penalties for breaking the law and FAR less federal laws. The doom and gloom outlook - well it does not hold, we can look at the historical context of drugs, as well as other countries that do not regulate as much, and see that. However, a lot of people on the fringes will be hurt. Not to be harsh, but thats how it is. Let me have my gun, let people use drugs, and give me very clear self defense laws. Trust me, in ten years a lot of the people who simply "cannot handle" making there own decisions will be dead, over it, or in jail.

[Lohman446]

One little side note. They don't include the spending in Iraq in the budget, so kinda blows
that to poo......


Didn't we have a budget surplus when one of those "spend it like we stole it" dems was in the white house?

If you can't understand the concept of a cyclic economy don't post things like this. Surely you do not expect (with the war being an exception) that today's economic policies have an effect, well today.

[Bolter]

When are people going to realize, drugs are not the problem, people that do them are. Legalize it, tax it and let responsible people consume it in a responsible way. If you take away the criminal part of all drugs, the drug related crimes will drop like a stone. Other countries with either legal or relaxed laws regarding drugs do not have the same crime issues related to them as we do here in the US. The billions spent on the so called "war on drugs" is a joke. It wastes tax payer dollars that could be used on other needed projects.

Name a country that has legalized or relaxed the drug laws, that isnt funked up.

[Lohman446]

Name a country that has legalized or relaxed the drug laws, that isnt funked up.

The Netherlands, Canada (if you want to consider marijuana), Brazil....


Of course, there are counterexamples where strict enforcement of very strict laws has worked too.

[Bolter]

Drugs are illegal in the Netherlands. I don't know about Canada. It is against the law to do any drugs in the Netherlands. They tolerate you smoking weed in coffee shops in Amsterdam, but not anywhere else. Of course, if you cause no trouble, you can get away with it, but thats the same the world over. Are hard drugs legal in Canada?

Edit: sorry I guess you meant weed in Canada. Im interested to hear more about Brazil.

[AirAssault]

If you can't understand the concept of a cyclic economy don't post things like this. Surely you do not expect (with the war being an exception) that today's economic policies have an effect, well today.


He posted numbers about the budget, I let him know the billions spent on the war are not part of the budget, that is all. If you can't read maybe YOU shouldn't post.

[Lohman446]

Drugs are illegal in the Netherlands. I don't know about Canada. It is against the law to do any drugs in the Netherlands. They tolerate you smoking weed in coffee shops in Amsterdam, but not anywhere else. Of course, if you cause no trouble, you can get away with it, but thats the same the world over. Are hard drugs legal in Canada?

Edit: sorry I guess you meant weed in Canada. Im interested to hear more about Brazil.

Brazil would be the ideal case study. My understanding of it is they switched from a punitive system to a rehabilitory system, which was also my understanding of the Netherlands. And I meant weed in Canada, it was a stretch but Im not of the "weed isn't harmful" crowd.

[druid]

rehab only works when the victim of addiction wants to be rehabbed and without self control or personal desire to stop, the victim won't....

[teufelhunden]

He posted numbers about the budget, I let him know the billions spent on the war are not part of the budget, that is all. If you can't read maybe YOU shouldn't post.

However, the numbers to fall into the same bucket of national debt. Which, provided some democrat doesn't come and much it up, should be gone within a decade [I believe that was the forecast] if Bush's policies are left alone.

[ahellers]

Hey FiXeL,
dont you love how people who dont really know anything about holland use it as an example for how drugs are ok.
t

[Glickman]

However, the numbers to fall into the same bucket of national debt. Which, provided some democrat doesn't come and much it up, should be gone within a decade [I believe that was the forecast] if Bush's policies are left alone.

im gonna assume this is pending on the 9 trillion dollar debt freeze. did congress ever approve the bill to stop any more budgeting once the debt gets to 9 trillion?

i dont know how bush's policies would decrease the debt, let alone kill it in 10 years.

http://www.whitehouse.org/policy/images/bushonomics-chart.gif



trickle down = fail

[bleachit]

That doesn't sound fair. Guess whose shoulders financing all the new jails is going to fall on? I like my labor camp idea. You get to do some lousy work, make $10/hr, pay income taxes, and your salary is garnished to cover room & board as well as pay the guards salaries and any other costs associated with running the place.


worst idea ever.

I have been working at the same retail job for 6 years, no way in hell some criminal is going to get paid more than I.

at the very most, minimum wage. even that is a gift, the are freaking criminals for crying out loud...

[bleachit]

trickle down = fail[/B]


you, sir, are no economist.

you should probably replace Northop Grumman and McDonnel Douglas with Lockheed Martin and Boeing, as they are the big aviation companies, hell McDonnel Douglas isn't even around anymore...absorbed by Boeing a while ago.



Govt lowers taxes

businesses pay less taxes

people pay less taxes

businesses make more stuff

businesses expand

businesses hire people

unemployment is below 5% forever (5% being "full employment")

People have jobs, make money

people buy lots of crap

government takes in taxes on all the crap you just bought

government kills terrorists because they have tons of cash to throw at the destruction of evil people

democrats dont like it so they try to throw tons of earmarks into budgets despite running on a campaign of "removing corruption and earmarks"

President Bush has a higher approval rating then Congress


the end

[Lohman446]

The "error" in trickle down

Businesses have more money

Businesses invest said money into technology to make current workers more efficient and or better products

Less workers produce more products and/or better products last longer needing less "new"

With machinery doing the very technical aspect of the job and being built to be as simple to operate as possible work is shipped to the lowest bidder for labor and equipment is built there.

[Glickman]

you, sir, are no economist.

Govt lowers taxes

businesses pay less taxes

people pay less taxes

businesses make more stuff

businesses expand

businesses hire people

unemployment is below 5% forever (5% being "full employment")

People have jobs, make money

people buy lots of crap

government takes in taxes on all the crap you just bought

government kills terrorists because they have tons of cash to throw at the destruction of evil people

democrats dont like it so they try to throw tons of earmarks into budgets despite running on a campaign of "removing corruption and earmarks"

President Bush has a higher approval rating then Congress


the end


except...

trickle down does NOT work (atleast face-value wise). and any economist can tell you that.

lets name the only instance of trickle down "REALLY" working, that would be reagan right?

http://www.faireconomy.org/images/TopTaxRateGraphs/tax_gdp.gif
*note there is no definitive effect of trickle down on the overall economy*

http://www.faireconomy.org/images/TopTaxRateGraphs/tax_emp.gif
*note there is no definitive effect of trickle down helping create jobs*

unlike bush, reagan did not only focus mainly on cutting taxes. he made a lot of special policies for corporations. reagan pushed for not only wealthy spending, but for corporate growth, something bush has failed at.

truth is, the trickle down "theory" is just a conservative way of putting more money into the upper echelons.



bush SHOULD stop focusing on cutting taxes for the rich, and focus on business incentives.

[ProX9]

If it were up to me, I would end the drug war and legalize all the drugs. I think no one would argue that there are going to be drug addicts and irresponsible drug users regardless of the legal status of drugs. I also think everyone would agree that if one of those drug users did something illegal as a result of the drugs they would still be punished accordingly. So why should we punish those who use drugs responsibly or those who are too addicted to stop? The responsible users would continue to be responsible and wouldn't hurt anyone. But maybe if drugs were legal it would incite more addicts to seek treatment, knowing that they wouldn't risk imprisonment for something they lost control of a long time ago, and in the end we could have less addicts. But, then there would be the problem of someone just trying meth or coke because its legal and becoming addicted, what would we say to that? I don't know, it seems like there would be no way to stop someone from doing that, but there are a lot of harmful paths out there and having a free society means leaving a lot of them open. I could see that being a problem right as soon as drugs were legalized, when the new thing to do becomes trying all the cool drugs, but I think that people would be smart enough to see the risks of using highly addictive substances and decide not to use them despite them being legal and eventually their use would go down again, eventually leading to a better situation than we have now.

I know people will say that could never work but I say to them, how well has prohibition worked in this case and in the past?

[Steelrat]

I know people will say that could never work but I say to them, how well has prohibition worked in this case and in the past?

Hey Matt,

I hope you aren't comparing the prohibition against drugs to the old prohibition against alcohol. Two totally different things.

[Lohman446]

I am going to maintain that we, as a nation, do not have the right or responsibility to legislate responsible choices in regards to health.

[kruger]

I am going to maintain that we, as a nation, do not have the right or responsibility to legislate responsible choices in regards to health.


And, I agree with this 100%.

It all comes down to choice. And taking responsibility for your choices. If you choose to play around with drugs, then you should also (by default) choose to take responsibility for any actions that you are a part of while under the influence of said drugs. This includes while you are high, and any actions that you are involved in in your search/desire to obtain more of the stuff.

There are laready laws that deal with driving under the influence. Try driving thru Georgia drunk or High. It aint pretty. And, I see no difference between alchohol or drugs. They both can be bad for you. They both can be addictive. Both are mood changers. And, that is why you do drugs, or drink, to change your mood.

If it was just a health issue, then beer, whiskey, ect. ect would have been gone a long time ago. Its more of a social engineering thing than anything else that I can see, not to mention the money that is made by the Gov'ment and the liquor business.

I used to think that we should leagalize everything, then let Darwinism run its course.

If drugs were leagal today, then you would have three groups of people.

One that would never try any drug, just like they dont drink.
One that would try it, just to see what its like, and either be a casual user, or not do anything ever again.
And, one group that would do drugs regularly. This last group is the one that would thin out pretty quickly. Either thru Darwinism, or thru the legal system. Breaking other laws and getting good "friends" in the Penal system (pun intended)

You already have these three groups now, but, the difference is that if drugs were legal, then you really do take most of the criminal element out of the mix. You have to be 21 to drink, apply this same law to drugs. At 21, you are a legal, thinking adult, able to take responibility for you own actions, and thus able to make decisions for your self.
Think carefully and use wisely.

Oh, and just for the record, I never experimented with drugs, I was in full research mode. :cool:

[AirAssault]

rehab only works when the victim of addiction wants to be rehabbed and without self control or personal desire to stop, the victim won't....

Rehab is for quitters!! :rofl:



Hey Matt,

I hope you aren't comparing the prohibition against drugs to the old prohibition against alcohol. Two totally different things.

yeah, how?



Of course what all you economic smarties are not saying is this. bush signs a bill that makes it easier (and cheaper) for an employer to send jobs over seas, giving it to some guy in India that I can't understand when I have a question about my CC statement. Yeah, THAT helps us out here in the US.

Some of you keep bringing up the evil dems, Again, didn't we have a budget SURPLUS when one of those money wasting dems was in office? I honestly don't know much about economics, call me crazy, but isn't a budget surplus (have money) better than a growing budget debt (no money)? Ohhh this is where you tell me it IS better that way :tard: :rofl:

[Lomarandil]

When are people going to realize, drugs are not the problem, people that do them are. Legalize it, tax it and let responsible people consume it in a responsible way. If you take away the criminal part of all drugs, the drug related crimes will drop like a stone. Other countries with either legal or relaxed laws regarding drugs do not have the same crime issues related to them as we do here in the US. The billions spent on the so called "war on drugs" is a joke. It wastes tax payer dollars that could be used on other needed projects.

Crime may have gone down, but do you know how much money the European governments that have relaxed drug laws have paid to do that?

They have government trucks that go around the streets of nearly every major European city to distribute "rationed" cocaine, heroin, etc to the druggies with new needles, etc. Keeps the drug addicts happy, less crime, sure, but it creates slum districts and costs a fortune.

I work seasonally for a company that is one of the largest drug rehabilitation center organizations in Europe. I know.

Lo

[druid]

you are arguing 'entitlements' with the dems vs reps stereotypical propaganda. Historically speaking, dems tax the **** out of everyone and everything...then 'provide' this and that program to make the people think they are 'doing their job'. Reps tax less and tell you do do this and that for yourself...and no one likes that. People want the 'easy road' through life and it just doesn't happen that way (barring you hit the Lottery or something)...

No one is 'entitled' to anything that the Constitution doesn't guarantee. In fact, if Congress followed the letter of the Constitutional outlines, they'd only be in office about 1/4 of the year and have to work at another job for the other 3/4...

The debate is not a dem vs rep debate...it's not even "tax the drugs to make $$ off them" debate...it the simple fact that these drugs ruin lives.
The drug addict is financially and morally bankrupt...their family members are destroyed by their addictions...society is in danger because of them...

[Lomarandil]

you are arguing
The debate is not a dem vs rep debate...it's not even "tax the drugs to make $$ off them" debate...it the simple fact that these drugs ruin lives.
The drug addict is financially and morally bankrupt...their family members are destroyed by their addictions...society is in danger because of them...

Hear Hear!

Lo