what ya think about those damn lasers...

[Hop Hop]

I have seem and use a laser pointer in a wood game during the years of paintball, and my question is.. is it fair? would people on the other team get piss off?

I did it about 10 years ago... on a spider. since I join AO.. haven't had it since. I just like to know if this is fair to use in a public view?

I remember back then.. I just point the light to the other side.. and I saw people running for their lives... so damn funny.

thanks for your feedback.

HopHop

[onedude36]

I definately think that would be funny to see people freak out, though i really doubt they would. You might get some crazy people yellin at you like your gona blind somone or something. I think it would be cool unless you get the powerful kind that can start fires and pop balloons, etc :tard:

[Smoothice]

I think it would be fine. I have contemplated that as well. Only problem is they usually work better (in my experience) when it is not very bright out.

[kruger]

one problem with using a laser is that it is not very good for the eyes. Its all fun and games until you put an eye out. ;)

[druid]

I agree with Kruger...there's a reason why there's a sticker on them that says:

WARNING: CLASS IIIA LASER PRODUCT.
LASER RADIATION, AVOID DIRECT EYE CONTACT.
Wavelength 630~680 nm
Max output < 5mw

intentionally or not, shined into an eye or magnified through a goggle lense can and will cause perminant damage. Don't believe me? Read for yourself...

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=2057
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlaserpoint.html

[Pacifist_Farmer]

I love it when people on the other team use lasers.

You see, the light sent out by the laser travels in essentially a straight line, a paintball does not. So it really is a rare case when the paintball hits where the laser is pointed.

And for some one on the other team looking for you, theres a bright red dot on the end of your gun to shoot at.

I never had a problem with others using them, but most of the people I played with did, so people stopped.

[Warwitch]

Most fields will not allow the use of lasers due to the risk of loss of eyesight. Ask around, I havent seen anyone use them in a looooooong time.

[rawbutter]

I've used lasers playing night games. But then again... we ALL had lasers (some people just bought the cheap pen lasers and taped them to their barrels), so no one was making a fuss.

But I would never use them during the day. If you can see where your paintballs are going, then what's the point of a laser? It's only really useful at night because you can't even see your own gun clearly. It helps you send shots in the right direction.

[Toll]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chicane-uk/thegoggles.gif


People can use them all they want. Most times people who use them in a serious fashion quickly figure out they are next to worthless. The people that contend that they make them better shots generally can't hold their aim over my face at 100 feet for .025 seconds.

[Dend78]

its kinda like sticking a scope on a marker kinda useless but looks cool, they do give you a point of aim though kinda like a ghost ring. my buddy actually used a pen laser pointer and duct taped it on his barrel :rofl:

[athomas]

I never liked the lazer sights. I did like the occluded sights and the nonmagnified red dot sites. They can be sighted for specific distances and can be extremely useful for aquiring a target quickly.

[Jaan]

...or magnified through a goggle lense...
The lens in a goggle is magnified? I would think it would diffuse the light somewhat.

I've played against people with laser sights a few times. They make great aiming points.

[druid]

The lens in a goggle is magnified? I would think it would diffuse the light somewhat.



I would think so too...but do you want to be the one to find out by losing an eye? I don't...

[Hop Hop]

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WoW... thanks for all the feedbacks...

To respond few of the posts here, ( honestly, I was thinking of using it in my next wood game, that's why I ask... ) here is my take on it.

If you are in close combat ( 10 ft to 15 ft )... why use laser? ( I think that’s about the rang to really hurt someone's eyes)
You can close your eyes and spray away the paint.

From a 20 ft to 35 ft distance... laser is a better guide to help you aim better...

( this brings up another question, I saw a lot of you has scope sight mounted on your gun.. dose that really work? between the mask and the foggy lens... what can you really see with out spending few hundred dollars to by a big scope?)

Now back the laser... yes... you can't see laser in daylight, but in woods, where there are trees and shadows to dime down the bright light.

Someone also said cheap leaser is always on... so that makes you a target. That’s true and very stupid to use. I would spend few dollars more to get the laser with on/off switch on eBay. ( that saves the money on buying more batteries)

I have a center feed mag with a hopper on top... so it's kinda hard to aim.. I have to till a bit to get a visual... very uncomfortable. That’s why I believe a laser sign can help me aim better with one or fewer shots to pick someone off…. Fewer shots help me stay in stealth longer, and I think that’s major difference between woodball and speedball.

Again, I haven’t used any types of sight for 10 years... so... please don't flame me.


HopHop



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[tebo]

I couldnt say anything about lazers im a tried and true speedballer.

[DaFin]

Lazer... Kinda worthless IMO.. maybe just something to lose.

I have never used a sight on any of my mags or other semi auto guns but have sights on both my pump gun and primary stock class gun. When you are going to take ONE shot it's better to know where that shot is going. That being said there may be instances where you want to aim where you think someone is going to be not where they are now and there might not be anything to shine the lazer on.

As for the center feed getting in the way, look for an occluded eye sight. That's where one eye picks up the dot and the other picks up the target picture. They've also been called Armson sights.

For you that say I need to work on my snap shooting so that I don't need a sight, you are right. I just need to play more anyway.

[rawbutter]

this brings up another question, I saw a lot of you has scope sight mounted on your gun.. dose that really work? between the mask and the foggy lens... what can you really see with out spending few hundred dollars to by a big scope?)


For speedball, I don't think sights of any kind are really worth anything. You make so many snap shots and quick moves... if you take a half-second to line up your shot through a sight, you'll often miss your opportunity or get shot out in the process.

Now, for woodsball (which I play primarily), sights can be a little more helpful, especially red-dot sights. I use a red-dot sight on my gun (http://www.rawbutter.com/images/twister7.JPG), and I must say that it really helps with long distance kills. I've made a few converts among my friends as well.

There are three main advatanges of red-dots sights, in my mind.

First, red-dot sights (even though they don't magnify) can be used with both eyes open, so you don't lose your field of sight.

Secondly, as athomas already said, red-dot sights do help you line up your shot very quickly. You just point and shoot.

Third (and most importantly), a red-dot sight provides a fixed point of reference. Most people aim by watching the first paintball and then adjusting their gun to compensate. But this system (especially at long range) is inherently flawed because paintballs never go 100% perfectly straight because of wind and tiny inperfections in the paintball and barrel. With a red-dot sight, you can beat this flawed system.

(And call me a geek, but I made a little diagram to help illustrate this point.)
http://www.rawbutter.com/images/temp.JPG
Let's pretend that you're aiming for a cross-target fifty feet away, and let's suppose that you have your gun aimed DIRECTLY for the center cross. But then you shoot and your paintball hits low and left. What are you going to do? Well, without a red-dot sight, you'll assume that your first shot was accurate, and so you'll move your gun up and to the right to compensate for the next shot. So then, if your next shot shoots perfectly straight, you'll hit top right, and you'll adjust again.

Now, if you had a red-dot dialed in for that range, you would aim and shoot right at the center cross, and if your shot hits low and left, you wouldn't adjust your shot. You would just assume that the paintball missed by a standard deviation caused by the imperfections of the system. When you fired again, therefore, you would be much for likely to hit the bullseye the second time.

There's a fourth point too... kinda connected to the third. With a red-dot, you can hit your target the FIRST time. You don't have to shoot once to make sure your gun is pointed in the right direction. This is especially useful when you're firing from a concealed location.


Sorry that this is really long. I got a little carried away. I do speak from personal experience, though. I play woodsball once a month or so, and I always use a red-dot that I have dialed in at 100ft or so. And it helps. I have one-balled more people that I care to count (at extreme range, too), and I can provide precise cover fire without just spraying a tree.

If you're interested, this (http://www.shortyusa.com/airsoft.html?http://www.shortyusa.com/cart/viewitem.html?II=795&UID=1188413025-208.6.1.42&OldLoc=/cart/listcategory.html&RID=1&NL=&CA=5&kiosk=) is one of the best red-dot sights I've ever found, at least for $30. It has red/green settings, and it has wind/elevation adjustments.
http://www.shortyusa.com/cart/images/795.jpg

[cadams]

I got nothing against them. I think they are pointless in real life paintball though. The effecive range of a paintabll marker is such that the laser dot really adds nothing to your accuracy (other than telling you where your shot will NOT be landing). Furthermore, if you ARE watching your little red dot, that you are NOT watching your angles.

A scope at least has some usefulness to it in woods ball. Not so much for aiming, but if you can't tell if that shape off in the distance is a gun barrel or a branch, the magnification is nice to have. (I use a cheap monocular).

I play woods ball with a guy who has the laser dot scope. Its only useful if your camping. In the heat of the fight, you rarely get to position your gun at the necessary angle to properly see through the scope. The most effective posture with a paintball is totally different than that of a rifle.

[Jaan]

I would think so too...but do you want to be the one to find out by losing an eye? I don't...Actually, I would prefer hard facts, one way or the other. I did do a cursory search for information on the subject, but apart from some anecdotes I didn't find much there saying that people do "loose an eye" on occasion.

[druid]

Actually, I would prefer hard facts, one way or the other. I did do a cursory search for information on the subject, but apart from some anecdotes I didn't find much there saying that people do "loose an eye" on occasion.

"Losing an eye" is a relative term meaning blindness...not a literal one, meaning their eye will melt out of their socket...Jeeze...

The point is...there's a reason why there's a warning label on all Class III and IV lasers. There's also a reason why most (if not all) fields banned their use.

They do damage to the human eye. Whether it's "flash" blindness or permanent damage - the severity of the malady is irrelevant to the totality of the situation. If a laser is shined in an eye, there will be blindness...possibly temporary, possibly permanent...who wants to risk that? After having my own eye surgery (for a completely unrelated reason), I can tell you that a person's eyesight is the one thing they should not take for granted...or forsaken on an un(der?)educated whim.

Anyone who says "Meh...just do it" is irresponsible and feels no burden of fault if something happens to some other "unknown" person on some public forum. What do they care? They don't have to live with the consequences of someone else's mistake or misfortune...now do they?

Back to the subject of red-dot sights....

The Leapers shown above is a good example of "cheap and useful." The Leapers brand is almost the same as the BSA brand but a tad better. I use the BSA's on my AK, Armalite and my 2 SKS rifles and have to say they are outstanding performers for their cost.

Now, paintballs hold the same basic trajectory as a standard bullet with obvious differences. The [lack of] speed in the paintball, the fact that it's a sphere and not conical and the profile size/shape is affected more easily by 20 bazzillion factors greater than a bullet (like wind, humidity, swelling, etc) make it almost impossible to "zero-in" any kind of red dot or scope with 100% accuracy. If you sight the red dot at a specific distance, say 50 feet, the paintball is going to hit within a 6" area of that "zero"...perhaps a bit better, possibly worse...but that's going to be the average. A 6" target area isn't really that bad considering all possibilities and the fact you only need to hit a human-sized target.

A Vertical feed will present you a problem in that it's going to be in the way of a top-mounted sight. Mounting it on a side rail would be another option or "In Yo Face" made an "offset sight" that attached to the top sight and moved it left or right of center. HERE (http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=ina4A_pkk8C4v7yy3Vp4q_CtLzYN3yMuwj4=?Pro ductID=rmusFAY70hsAAAD6CNSW4NAj) is one in blue...It clamps onto a top sight rail and the Leapers will mount onto the one on top of the platform. It's angled at just the right amount to help center the sight for you around the vertical feedneck.

[dstud2000]

never used a laser myself, but I could see them as a possible point of reference for your team to use in a night game.

other than that, I just sight down the side of the gun to the tip of the barrel. I have hard sights on one of my pumps and I find them useful when I get the opportunity to use them.

[OneUp]

here in sunny cali i doubt you can use a laser....

[athomas]

A Vertical feed will present you a problem in that it's going to be in the way of a top-mounted sight. For vertical feed guns, the occluded site is probably the best bet. It sits behind the feed tube directly above the gun for perfect alignment. You aim with both eyes, one looking into the site and the other looking at the target. The occluded site superimposes a red dot onto the target that the free eye sees. These sites are available in both light gathering types or battery operated.

[mostpeople]

I saw someone get royally F'd up in the eye from a lazer, so I will not play when someone uses one.

As far as the gameplay of it though I have no problem, I just wont put my eyes at that risk.

[doc_Zox]

http://www.scenariopaintball.com/rules/GSRPv302.htm

GENERAL
SCENARIO RULES OF PLAY
Version 3.02 © 1996-2007

PROHIBITED EQUIPMENT:

Heavy clothing which is designed to promote bounces; shields of any kind; unbreakable trip wires; air horns; cylumes; knives; ropes; whistles; hot-burning smoke; pyrotechnics; firearms; laser sights; crossbows; sling shots; BB guns. When in doubt, ask the game management. Any device designed to raise or lower the velocity of a paint marker (tools, adjustable barrels without locking caps) are prohibited on the field of play. NO predominantly yellow or orange shirts, jerseys allowed. This is reserved for field staff and referees only. If this is in doubt check with event management.

[BigEvil]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chicane-uk/thegoggles.gif



^
^^
^^^
^
^


One of the greatest Simpsons episodes EVER.

[warbeak2099]

Laser sights should be banned on all fields no matter what. I can't believe there are fields that actually allow them. It is a fact that they will damage the retina if shined at a person's goggles, period. There is no reason that in a game of paintball, any dickface should be allowed to put other people's eyesight in danger because he thinks he's Rambo. Other than that they are tactically useless just like scopes.

/thread

[Smoothice]

\ thread

I guess if we are assuming that anybody that would have a laser sight on his gun is stupid enough to aim it at someones face then I change my original post.

Hopefully if anybody does use a laser sight on their gun they will use some common sense and aim for the body.

[Lohman446]

\ thread

I guess if we are assuming that anybody that would have a laser sight on his gun is stupid enough to aim it at someones face then I change my original post.

Hopefully if anybody does use a laser sight on their gun they will use some common sense and aim for the body.

When you fire a marker is it ever exactly where you thought it would be? Same with a laser... might be an accident

[Warwitch]

When you fire a marker is it ever exactly where you thought it would be? Same with a laser... might be an accident


exactly. The fact that there is a chance for loss of vision should make this one a no-brainer, and so it is :rolleyes:

[athomas]

\ thread

I guess if we are assuming that anybody that would have a laser sight on his gun is stupid enough to aim it at someones face then I change my original post.

Hopefully if anybody does use a laser sight on their gun they will use some common sense and aim for the body.That is like saying, "I'm gonna use a real grenade, but I'm only ever gonna throw it just out of range of the players so they don't get hurt".

[XMAG-XT00125]

At the field where i play we have one person who uses a laser sight. He plays pump with a long barreled PGP cut back to the end of the pump arm. Having been hit twice in the goggles(JT Spectra thermals[2 lenses]) with the lazer I found that the laser hit the lens and deflected across it as opposed to going thru it. No problems with my eyesight. What it would do on a single lens, i have no idea. We were playing the bush field on both occasions and yes, i was shot out both times...the first one in the goggs, the second one in my hopper as i tried to turn away when the laser hit my goggs. A number of ppl have commented that sights/lasers are a waste of time. Anything set up correctly to your paintball marker and your style of play will improve your play..Its all about knowing the distance to your target(roughly) and the flight path of the paintball in relation to the red dot sight/target reticle or laser on your gat...Do I use one ..No..but i do use a PGP on the bush field...last game i got 6 kills for 4 outs..not bad for 25 paintballs :shooting:

[Toll]

Red dots are fine. It's projection and a point of reference.

I don't even think I could see a laser on a clear day on a target more than 20 feet away from me.

[warbeak2099]

That is like saying, "I'm gonna use a real grenade, but I'm only ever gonna throw it just out of range of the players so they don't get hurt".

Lol, yea. Saying, "oh I just won't aim for your face" is about the most retarded justification I can think of. Maybe, "no that's a myth they don't hurt your eyes, they make them better." But that's about it.

[Lohman446]

We won't wear goggles and just won't take head shots, that will be safe too :rolleyes:

[warbeak2099]

We won't wear goggles and just won't take head shots, that will be safe too :rolleyes:

lol

[Ninjeff]

wonder how a laser range finder would work....

Just thinking out loud....

[Toll]

it'd probably work alright, but most games are really too fast to sit there and calibrate.

[athomas]

Having been hit twice in the goggles(JT Spectra thermals[2 lenses]) with the lazer I found that the laser hit the lens and deflected across it as opposed to going thru it. No problems with my eyesight. The problem with lazers, is you may not notice the loss of sight for 10 - 20 years or more. I had an eye injury when I was 11. I was 35 before it started to affect my sight (that I noticed). It probably affects things that you don't notice right away.

[Jaasper]

Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but the lasers are only harmful if projected into the eye for an extend time. I.e. Pointing it at your face and staring at it is dangerous. Getting hit with it from 20 feet away is not unless someones hand is a lot steadier than mine is at that distant.

I've seen them put to good use, (laser Pointers) in combination with nightvision goggles. Someone would have a pair of NVG and use the laser pointer to point out targets for the rest of us. We use to put them up in the tower of our base at night for perimenter defense. They would scan the area and then use the laser pointer to point out objects of interest. Instead of doing the same thing with a spot light scanning and losing your nightvision. You can also put out listening posts with radios to acomplish the same thing and instead of giving away your position by opening fire, you get someone behind you with a radio to point out the target with a pointer.

Red Dot sights come in handy for the same reasons already stated. Plus if you learn how your markers shoot in reference to your sight in day light , it will better allow you to hit targets at night that your normal would not have a chance in heck of hitting, because of a known reference point for distance and generally shot area.

This all comes from personal expierence playing scenario games with one side having certain teams on it that are NVG heavy and having to defend against them. To use a military term, laser pointers can be a great force multiplier.

-Jaasper

[dstud2000]

What about Lazer tag.....been hit in the eye a few times while going to a zap zone :confused: