What ever happend to the SOBs?

[sdlm_]

Did they jump ship with another company? quit playing paintball? Break up? if you don't know who I am talking about this should help:
<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i168.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid168.photobucket.com/albums/u167/sdlm/20070902_104045.flv"></embed>

[RogueFactor]

Some of them post here on AO

Beemer......paging Beemer....

[skipdogg]

I believe they 'turned into' AGD Lions in about 2001. Basically though they 'went away' in the 90's. Some of the original members post on here once in a while.

[Old S.O.B.]

Most of the original team began to drop off in 97, when the team considered dropping our field sponsor of 11 years - Paint Ball Sams in Racine. Apparently they thought the grass would be greener at BadLandz. Those of us loyal to our old sponsor, walked. In fact, that video looks to be after 97. I don't remember that logo on our backs. I still have all of my uniforms going back to 86 and the team I played on never wore that logo.

[mr doo doo]

wow, did they rock those other guys. i never really knew that there was an automag team...

[Old S.O.B.]

wow, did they rock those other guys. i never really knew that there was an automag team...

The team started in '86 at Paint Ball Sam's, in Racine, Wisconsin. Tom Kaye was a regular at the field, as was Jeff Perlmutter from PMI. Both of them helped spearhead the game forward. In the late 80s, Tom was working on the design for what would become the AutoMag and the S.O.B.s tested the prototypes for him for a year or two. In 1990 we were the first team to use the markers at (I think) Nashville's Music City Open. Beemer's gun went ballistic at the chrono and Jim Lively and Sam Caldwell were considering banning it. They, and Tom, Budd Orr and others sat up all night at the hotel and discovered the problem was with Beemer's siphon tank and not the marker. The Mags were allowed to remain in the game. The team, however, missed the semi finals. Our sister team, Swarm, from Aurora, Illinois asked to use our Mags in combination with their Enforcers. We gave them 5 of our Mags for their front guys and they had 5 back guys using the Enforcers. They won the event and their team's name went on the Automag box, instead of ours. But, Tom was a loyal sponsor and never gave up on the S.O.B.s - the longest running amateur team in the circuit. Jacksonville Warriors joined in the exclusive sponsorship a couple years later. Tom presented their case and Swarm and the S.O.B.s voted unanimously to accept Jacksonville.

I think I got the basics down, here. But, it has been a while and I did a lot of drugs in the 60s. So, I could be wrong.

[mr doo doo]

haha, wow, that must have been a journey. and to be the first team using automags, dang, thats pretty darn cool. i wish i was a live back then to know what was happening. long life AGD! :cheers:

[Old S.O.B.]

haha, wow, that must have been a journey. and to be the first team using automags, dang, thats pretty darn cool. i wish i was a live back then to know what was happening. long life AGD! :cheers:

We were also one of only 2 amateur teams involved in the formation of the NPPL in November 1992 at the Holiday Inn in Lansing. That is where I met Steve Davidson, who created the NPPL - a league of the players and for the players. 5 years later, the NPPL was in shambles and we split off to try our luck with GTO and later the USPL. Both had great potential, as did the original NPPL. But, politics and money destroyed all of that.

[sdlm_]

Most of the original team began to drop off in 97, when the team considered dropping our field sponsor of 11 years - Paint Ball Sams in Racine. Apparently they thought the grass would be greener at BadLandz. Those of us loyal to our old sponsor, walked. In fact, that video looks to be after 97. I don't remember that logo on our backs. I still have all of my uniforms going back to 86 and the team I played on never wore that logo.
Yes, that video is from the 1999 World Cup.

[Old S.O.B.]

Yes, that video is from the 1999 World Cup.
I still see some of the original guys at Sam's Big Games off and on, and I recognized a couple playing in the video that had left and then clearly returned. I don't know any of the new guys at AGD Lions or if they still play. I think Steve and Harry would still be there, if that is the case and maybe Jay. My last game was World Cup 2000. Swarm needed a couple of pick-ups and they flew me to Orlando and put me up at the hotel. We had a great time and got our asses smoked.

When I started in '81, I was 32 and that was the median age for players. The game was much slower (1 hour typically) and we hid in the bushes most of the time. But, it was my partner, Steve Davidson, who created the format that was copied and is X-ball, today. Our format was faster and demanded offensive play. We designed it around TV, by asking ESPN what they needed. Money and politics entered the picture, again, and shot that potential to the ground, also.

I think that if Steve and I had had more money and supporters like Tom Kaye, the game could have become the sport it deserves to be, today.

[Beemer]

Ya that is team S.O.B.s. NOT to be confused with The original S.O.B.s, Sams Omega Blasters. They needed the name recognition so went with that name. Thing was it wasnt the same team any more. They didnt make it to beating up on some of the pros like we did. :D

Those originals that didnt retire went on to AGD Lions, with AGD and PaintBall Sams support.



But, politics and money destroyed all of that

And still is today.

Most but not all of the original Sams Omega Blasters.

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/92AmOpensmall.jpg


Hey Old SOB you forgot to say who one of the go to guys was on the chrono after that little issue. Hey Beemer whats your gun at? 299, 298, 299, for real.

[mr doo doo]

wow, we are talking to a veteran here huh? i can imagine that paintball has really evolved into something different, and probably something that people who played long ago wouldnt really like, and people who just started really liking it.

are you in the video Old S.O.B?

[Old S.O.B.]

wow, we are talking to a veteran here huh? i can imagine that paintball has really evolved into something different, and probably something that people who played long ago wouldnt really like, and people who just started really liking it.

are you in the video Old S.O.B?

No. Like I said I was gone in late 97 and the video was World Cup 99. But, I am in the photo that Beemer posted. The blond guy in the front is an attorney at the firm that developed Arena football. I am just to the right behind him in the black AGD hat. Beemer is second from the left in the front row.

[Old S.O.B.]

Ya that is team S.O.B.s. NOT to be confused with The original S.O.B.s, Sams Omega Blasters. They needed the name recognition so called themselves that.

Those originals that didnt retire went on to AGD Lions, with AGD and PainBall Sams support.




And still is today.

Most but not all of the original Sams Omega Blasters.

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/92AmOpensmall.jpg


Yeah. By the time Beemer and I and others left in 97, there had been between 65 and 70 players who were on our team since 86.

[Beemer]

Now those were the days playing with doctors, laywers, trade journey men and others on our team. HEY Doc fix me up......... :rofl: For real we had a doctor on the team. His nick was Doc. First on left back

[Old S.O.B.]

No. Like I said I was gone in late 97 and the video was World Cup 99. But, I am in the photo that Beemer posted. The blond guy in the front is an attorney at the firm that developed Arena football. I am just to the right behind him in the black AGD hat. Beemer is second from the left in the front row.


Beemer, that pic looks like the year we took second at the Pittsburgh Amateur. Of course, we always took second at the Amateur. Poor Debra Dion and Tom Kaye. They always prayed we would win it.

[Beemer]

Beemer, that pic looks like the year we took second at the Pittsburgh Amateur. Of course, we always took second at the Amateur. Poor Debra Dion and Tom Kaye. They always prayed we would win it.

That pic is from 92 Am open. The Wizard never cared as long as he saw us having fun and that he did. I still remember Mike Lauterborn telling us we were all discombobulated. :spit_take Wonder if "The Lady Tree Dancers" are still pissed at us. :(

[Old S.O.B.]

That pic is from 92 Am open. The Wizard never cared as long as he saw us having fun and that he did. I still remember Mike Lauterborn telling us we were all discombobulated. :spit_take

Yeah. What ever happened to Mike? After he and Cathy were on the cover of Paintball Sports or Paintcheck magazine with the DOUBLE MAG, I never heard from them, again. Likely still in Vegas. They had a nice place out there. That Mag was so awesome - 2 mainbodies and 2 barrels with 2 ViewLoaders that Dave made special for the gun and a special double trigger that Tommy and (I think) Howdy designed. That was something.

We had so many requests at AGD to produce that gun, after that.

[mr doo doo]

hehe, out of the whole picture, the first person that caught my eye was the guy in the first row, second to the left. coincidently, its beemer, haha. man did AGD go way back.

[Old S.O.B.]

hehe, out of the whole picture, the first person that caught my eye was the guy in the first row, second to the left. coincidently, its beemer, haha. man did AGD go way back.

Yeah. Looking at the banner, it was before we changed to a black banner and there is no J&J Barrels or Unique Sporting logos and no Duck for our air suppliers. I think we were still using 12 oz aluminium tanks. And Billy and Greek were still around, but Gil, Ted and Snoopy are gone. No Ronnie or Toby in the photo, but I am sure Ronnie was there teching for Tom. So, 92 sounds about right.

[skipdogg]

Old SOB - You probably don't remember, but we (Psycho Cows) kept you guys from making the finals at the 1991 IPO at Fox River. It was the only game we almost won all day. Man we got it handed to us at that one. We never did play a 10 man again. BEST TIME EVER though. The majority of us were 16 then :). (if I remeber correctly you had to be 18 to play) Oh well, back then if SWARM says it's ok, then it's ok :)

[Old S.O.B.]

Yeah. Looking at the banner, it was before we changed to a black banner and there is no J&J Barrels or Unique Sporting logos and no Duck for our air suppliers. I think we were still using 12 oz aluminium tanks. And Billy and Greek were still around, but Gil, Ted and Snoopy are gone. No Ronnie or Toby in the photo, but I am sure Ronnie was there teching for Tom. So, 92 sounds about right.

I remember in 91 we had an event in Texas and Tommy was counting guns coming off the field (I think it was John Kirkpatrick's team field for the Black Diamonds.) That was one year after we first debuted with the Mags. 97% of the players were shooting AutoMags. And there were teams from Australia, the UK and Brazil. Even the Ton Tons from France were there. Tom was so impressed. He did not know what to make of it, when I told him there were Mags only out there. That was what prompted him to go count for himself. I remember the teams were so impressed with AGD providing tech teams to repair guns. Teams quickly discovered that Quality Always Shoots Straight was not just a logo on the box.

[Old S.O.B.]

Old SOB - You probably don't remember, but we (Psycho Cows) kept you guys from making the finals at the 1991 IPO at Fox River. It was the only game we almost won all day. Man we got it handed to us at that one. We never did play a 10 man again. BEST TIME EVER though. The majority of us were 16 then :). (if I remeber correctly you had to be 18 to play) Oh well, back then if SWARM says it's ok, then it's ok :)


I do remember Psycho Cows.

[Old S.O.B.]

I do remember Psycho Cows.

Swarm was one of the pioneers to let youngsters play. A lot of fields tried, but insurance was the big issue and companies would not take the risk.

[tasker89]

The home field of SWARM, Fox River Games, was letting people as young as 16 play all the way back in 1990-91. I started playing there as a 15 year old right after SWARM won the 1990 Line SI Masters (using Automags). I lied to the owners and pretended I was 16 for two years. :D

I later became a field ref and then played with SWARM in the early NPPL circuit from 1993-1997. I judged my share of IPO tourneys as well. Lots of good midwest teams came through that tournament in its heyday.

SOBS
Scream
Lords of Discipline
and later both in the Aftershock incarnation
Arch Angels (from STL)
the various Wacky Warriors teams
Mohican Mad Dogs

and the list goes on....

At one point those IPO tourneys had a pretty nice prize kitty for an independent regional tournament. Cash and/or 10 brand spanking new Automags to the winners.

[spectre184]

asked to use our Mags in combination with their Enforcers.

*EDIT* link doesn't work right. Go up and hit LIST ALL and scroll down till you see Combat Connection -Enforcer Is this the enforcer you were talking about? (http://www.mcarterbrown.com/collection3.0/collection.cgi?action=list2)
If so I've never heard of it. I've been playing since '89 and bought APG's religously till late '90's when I quit playing for while.

[Old S.O.B.]

*EDIT* link doesn't work right. Go up and hit LIST ALL and scroll down till you see Combat Connection -Enforcer Is this the enforcer you were talking about? (http://www.mcarterbrown.com/collection3.0/collection.cgi?action=list2)
If so I've never heard of it. I've been playing since '89 and bought APG's religously till late '90's when I quit playing for while.

That's the one. You have heard of it now. They were good for long ballin.

[tasker89]

The Enforcer series of guns were a great family of Benjamin-Sheridan based pump guns. The guns were almost entirely brass construction. They had some great features for the time including: Cooper-T internals, quick strip slots, adjustable valve chambers, removable feed necks, etc.

The Enforcer was also very pretty when properly Brasso'd. Fox River Games originally used them as their rental fleet and you used to occasionally see an old SWARMie playing with one. Players complain about the weight of guns now...try lugging around a solid brass Enforcer with a 16" barrel powered by a steel 9oz CAM bottle. :wow:

To my recollection, Combat Connection sold guns regionally in the Midwest (though I think that Gramps and Grizzly sold the gun via mail-order and on the west coast). One of the principals in CC was Kent Carrol; (who later went to work at Air America) and the other's last name was Howerton. If I remember correctly, Howerton's death was the primary reason behind the disappearance of Combat Connection.

[Old S.O.B.]

Wow!! Kent Carroll. That is a name I haven't heard in a few years. I don't think he is still at Air America. In fact, I don't know if Air America is still around and I am only 10 miles from their last address in Des Plaines. Out of the loop too long, I guess?

[sdlm_]

Air America was either bought by someone else or decided to get rid of the quality in recent years. In any case they still sell tanks but, no longer honor my lifetime warranty, nor do they make anything adjustable anymore.

And, yes they really have started selling Air America at Walmart: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4324529

[Old S.O.B.]

Air America was either bought by someone else or decided to get rid of the quality in recent years. In any case they still sell tanks but, no longer honor my lifetime warranty, nor do they make anything adjustable anymore.

And, yes they really have started selling Air America at Walmart: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4324529

I heard that Debby took over the business from Dan and his father. I am not surprised about the quality issues. I was at Dan's field only a few times in the late 80s and they touted safety, but enforced none of the rules. He told me it was a business and that he was in it for the money. I reminded him that the money would disappear as soon as someone got seriously hurt. But, it just was not a priority. The field (Paintball Blitz) still sits just north of Milwaukee Road and Rt 41 in Gurnee, but I believe they closed because the land was designated a wet land.

[93civiccpe]

Maybe I shouldn't post this because it is hearsay, but one of the shop owners in town had told me that Air America had been bought out and when that happened several of the original guys behind those regs created Guerilla Air, who now makes the Myth. Not sure how much truth is behind that but the shop owner is one of the few intelligent ones in the area who typically has his facts straight.

[Old S.O.B.]

Maybe I shouldn't post this because it is hearsay, but one of the shop owners in town had told me that Air America had been bought out and when that happened several of the original guys behind those regs created Guerilla Air, who now makes the Myth. Not sure how much truth is behind that but the shop owner is one of the few intelligent ones in the area who typically has his facts straight.

I think I heard that, as well, except that Debby Colby was the new owner as I heard it. Could be both stories are correct.

[tasker89]

Maybe I shouldn't post this because it is hearsay, but one of the shop owners in town had told me that Air America had been bought out and when that happened several of the original guys behind those regs created Guerilla Air, who now makes the Myth. Not sure how much truth is behind that but the shop owner is one of the few intelligent ones in the area who typically has his facts straight.

I can't speak to who the principals are behind Guerrilla Air...but I can confirm your hearsay with my first hand knowledge. The new regs being sold by Guerrilla are designs from the same gentleman who created all of CenterFlag's regulators.

Most, and in fact all, of the HPA products and the HyperFrames sold by Centerflag were designed by the same guy. As CenterFlag was fading out of the US market they tried to put out a rebuildable screw-in called the 4CE. That reg ended up being brought under the stable of products sold by Guerrilla. The Ambush series is virtually identical to the 400/420 series. The 4CE became the Assault and the Myth was a newer design that Guerrilla was given the opportunity to manufacture.

I apologize....cause this is some MASSIVE thread drift. LOL! :D

I'll bring it back on track by saying that as a former SWARM player...I always enjoyed working with and playing against the guys on the SOBs...and many of us considered them a sister team. The transition from 15 and 10 man woodsball to the arenaball formats pushed out one kind of competitive player in favor of another...and teams like the SOBs, SWARM and others eventually faded...so it goes.

[Old S.O.B.]

I can't speak to who the principals are behind Guerrilla Air...but I can confirm your hearsay with my first hand knowledge. The new regs being sold by Guerrilla are designs from the same gentleman who created all of CenterFlag's regulators.

Most, and in fact all, of the HPA products and the HyperFrames sold by Centerflag were designed by the same guy. As CenterFlag was fading out of the US market they tried to put out a rebuildable screw-in called the 4CE. That reg ended up being brought under the stable of products sold by Guerrilla. The Ambush series is virtually identical to the 400/420 series. The 4CE became the Assault and the Myth was a newer design that Guerrilla was given the opportunity to manufacture.

I apologize....cause this is some MASSIVE thread drift. LOL! :D

I'll bring it back on track by saying that as a former SWARM player...I always enjoyed working with and playing against the guys on the SOBs...and many of us considered them a sister team. The transition from 15 and 10 man woodsball to the arenaball formats pushed out one kind of competitive player in favor of another...and teams like the SOBs, SWARM and others eventually faded...so it goes.

Well, now!!! CenterFlag was started up by one of your teammates, Dennis Ashley, wasn't it? He and Chip Kuhrt and Sandman (Tim Glavin) were all partners in Fox River Games for a number of years. Sandman still runs that field and the store, now, as well... I think.

And of course we were sister teams - even before AGD came into the picture. If you remember an S.O.B. named Biff, that is who you got here. But, yeah, we played with you guys, After Shock and Thunderstruck every other week.

As for getting off topic, this is the topic - What ever happened to the SOBs?

[tasker89]

Well, now!!! CenterFlag was started up by one of your teammates, Dennis Ashley, wasn't it? He and Chip Kuhrt and Sandman (Tim Glavin) were all partners in Fox River Games for a number of years. Sandman still runs that field and the store, now, as well... I think.

Correct on all counts. Dennis did found CenterFlag, but he wasn't the primary designer on the technology. Chip sold his share of Fox years ago, and Sandman does still run both the field and the store.

I do remember you Biff...though you may not remember me. My name is Adam. I was a young whippersnapper (15) in 1990-91 when I started playing down at Fox River. I worked for Tim, Chip and Dennis for years while in high school and junior college and joined SWARM in 1993, playing three years or so in the NPPL with SWARM before I left to finish my BA downstate.

I basically grew up playing paintball down at Fox River and as a result I know all the old names.

Actually one of my better memories of you was at the Chicago Open in '96 (I think). You were head judge on one of the spectator fields (the one with the plexiglass window in the bunker). You were standing right over me when I shot myself in the hand while trying to clear the ports in my barrel. Possibly my biggest bone-head move ever. I looked up at you, shook my head and called myself out. I think you said, "that sucks" or something similar.

[Old S.O.B.]

Correct on all counts. Dennis did found CenterFlag, but he wasn't the primary designer on the technology. Chip sold his share of Fox years ago, and Sandman does still run both the field and the store.

I do remember you Biff...though you may not remember me. My name is Adam. I was a young whippersnapper (15) in 1990-91 when I started playing down at Fox River. I worked for Tim, Chip and Dennis for years while in high school and junior college and joined SWARM in 1993, playing three years or so in the NPPL with SWARM before I left to finish my BA downstate.

I basically grew up playing paintball down at Fox River and as a result I know all the old names.

Actually one of my better memories of you was at the Chicago Open in '96 (I think). You were head judge on one of the spectator fields (the one with the plexiglass window in the bunker). You were standing right over me when I shot myself in the hand while trying to clear the ports in my barrel. Possibly my biggest bone-head move ever. I looked up at you, shook my head and called myself out. I think you said, "that sucks" or something similar.

Adam, didn't you also work at the store? Yeah, I remember you and the shot in the hand, altho I did not know who the player was behind the mask, until now. That plexiglass bunker was pretty cool. But, of course, the other team painted it within seconds of the game starting, making it pretty useless. That window probably earned Rennick Miller $500 additional in paint sales.

[tasker89]

Biff,

At one time or another I worked at FRG as a ref and at their store as a manager/sales guy. (I'm not to be confused with Big Adam who I believe is currently working in Aurora) I've also worked at Bad Boyz and I even put in some time at CenterFlag before things went south there.

That hand shot stung.

[Old S.O.B.]

Biff,

At one time or another I worked at FRG as a ref and at their store as a manager/sales guy. (I'm not to be confused with Big Adam who I believe is currently working in Aurora) I've also worked at Bad Boyz and I even put in some time at CenterFlag before things went south there.

That hand shot stung.


Yeah, I can still feel it. And I know which Adam you are.