Slight Tac Problems

[Needmorepaintball]

Ok guys, I am here to take advantage of your superior knowledge of these guns :)

Got my Tac One off of here in May. Before it came I did a ton of research on the Lvl 10 and tuning it, so when it got here I had it tuned within 2 hrs I would say. Ever since I have had not a big problem, but very small annoying ones that I seem to fix, then something else happens. So my intentions here is to get help fixing everything so I will be the happiest paintballer in the world again lol

For the record, I have a Warp Right Tac One with a Qloader Setup and ULT. My Nitro is a Centerflag Dynaflow tank (300-1500psi baby). Tank had 2900psi left in it with an output of 850-900psi. I am using the Red Spring in the Lvl 10 with the #2 carrier and 3 shims.

(1) I took my gun out to shoot today and for some odd reason the bolt wouldn't cock. I had to wait about 3 min for the bolt to come back so I could shoot. This would happen about every 10-20 shots. I figured it was bolt stick, so I took out the carrier (#2) and put in the 2.5. Crazy amounts of air down the barrel. So I put #2 back in, worked fine. Why does stuff like this happen? I thought the only times the gun needed retuning was during extreme weather changed (IE Summer to Winter).

(2) (Today as well) My first shot on a string was really hot, so I replaced the regulator seat O-Ring. No more hot shots. Now I just have very erratic velocity: 293, 288, 290, 232, 240,, 252, 290. Whats up with that? lol I dont know if this is related to the velocity, but my Qloader popped a weak paintball when put it on the gun, so all the balls got drug through the excess paint. Can this effect the velocity that badly?

(3) At the end of this horrible day, I decided just to shot the tank dry (bc the gun was now working), even though my paint was gone. So just standing around dry firing and I notice something black go flying away from my gun. The little foamie in the bolt apparently broke off and took off across my yard. lol I have a spare and I superglued it to the spot on the Lvl 10, is that all I need to do?

I know my gun can rule all if I can get her to work consistently. When she does work I do some awesome work on the field. When she is temperamental (such as today) all I get is mocked by my buds and their stupid low end Tippmanns :tard:.

And while I have you captive to my thread lol If I want to shoot the Beth in the 15bps range, do I need to retune the ULT? I had the pressure on my tank up to around 1200psi the other day and I was getting about 2-10 quick shots then it stops. Is this me not sweetspotting correctly? Or would it be better to reinstall the original trigger to get the BPS higher?

Thats all for now. I will let ya know if I come up with anything else.

Thanks in advance!!!

[Andrewliu6294]

1.) how many shims are in the LX? that could very well be your problem.

2.) yes, the paint can.

3.) yup. let it dry before firing.

[Needmorepaintball]

1.) how many shims are in the LX? that could very well be your problem.

2.) yes, the paint can.

3.) yup. let it dry before firing.

I have 3 shims in the Lvl 10 and 4 in the ULT

Thanks

[Andrewliu6294]

I'm not sure about the ULT, but did you try taking out shims in the LX?

The powertube may be too long with that many O-rings, causing cocking problems.

I know i only run with 1 in the LX in my classic valve.

[Needmorepaintball]

I'm not sure about the ULT, but did you try taking out shims in the LX?

The powertube may be too long with that many O-rings, causing cocking problems.

I know i only run with 1 in the LX in my classic valve.

The least amount of shims I have ever used is 2, which is the starting point for tuning. If the valve leaks or the air comes down the barrel, add a shim to make it stop. Which it does, giving me 3. So I am unsure if using 1 would work or not.

But when I get my tank filled tomorrow I will certainly try.

[athomas]

Now I just have very erratic velocity: 293, 288, 290, 232, 240,, 252, 290. Whats up with that? lol I dont know if this is related to the velocity, but my Qloader popped a weak paintball when put it on the gun, so all the balls got drug through the excess paint. Can this effect the velocity that badly? Yes, that would cause very erratic velocity.

I always remove powertube shims when tuning my level 10. It removes any chances that the shims are causing a leak rather than the carrier size. Shims only determine how far the bolt has to move before it can reset itself. Sometimes, too many shims can cause you to have to use a carrier that is too tight in order to stop the leaking caused by the shims.

Sweetspotting is sometimes hard to do. You need to find the right amount of trigger force and the correct position to to initiate and sustain trigger bounce.

[Needmorepaintball]

Yes, that would cause very erratic velocity.

I always remove powertube shims when tuning my level 10. It removes any chances that the shims are causing a leak rather than the carrier size. Shims only determine how far the bolt has to move before it can reset itself. Sometimes, too many shims can cause you to have to use a carrier that is too tight in order to stop the leaking caused by the shims.

Sweetspotting is sometimes hard to do. You need to find the right amount of trigger force and the correct position to to initiate and sustain trigger bounce.

Glad to know that the paint was most likely the velocity problem.

So you suggest I retune the gun without the shims to make sure the carrier is indeed the correct one, then readd the shims after I find the right carrier correct?

Would it be easier to sweetspot with the ULT or the stock RT trigger? I my tank can do 1500psi lol

Thanks

[Piranti]

Stock RT is easier to Sweetspot, but an improperly tunes ULT can be nearly so but more difficult to tune to get the desired effect.

[athomas]

The retro on-off assembly will be the easiest to sweetspot. The ULT was brought in to reduce the trigger pull and to also reduce the runaway effect of a retro valve.

[Argelmcgee]

Yeah, AThomas was right about the tuning. You should always tune without shims and add them as they are needed. Also, always use the largest possible carrier that doesn't leak, not the tightest carrier that fires (it'll give you better efficiency). When switching carrier sizes, use the same carrier o-ring.

[Needmorepaintball]

Yeah, AThomas was right about the tuning. You should always tune without shims and add them as they are needed. Also, always use the largest possible carrier that doesn't leak, not the tightest carrier that fires (it'll give you better efficiency). When switching carrier sizes, use the same carrier o-ring.

Thank you very much for the tips. As soon as I get my tank refilled I will retune it properly and post my results here (for anyone having a similar problem). Am I correct in saying that I just need the biggest carrier that doesnt let mass amounts of air down the barrel and actually lets the gun cycle? The only leak I should have will be in the internals/feedneck, and the shims will solve that correct?

And after its tuned I will reinstall the old RT trigger and also post my results.

Thanks for all the help guys

[Argelmcgee]

Here... a guide on tuning your Level 10.

CARRIER & CARRIER O-RING:

The carrier size is your most important setting in the Level 10 setup.

Properly size the carrier and o-ring first. The carrier and o-ring should slide onto the bolt stem without much resistance, but shouldn't slide on its own when held in a vertical position. DON’T use shims when first tuning your level 10. That way you will know that any leaks are caused by the carrier and o-ring rather than too many shims.

Use the largest carrier that does not leak. DO NOT USE the tightest carrier that still fires. Larger carrier = less friction = slightly better gas efficiency. Always use the same white powertube o-ring while tuning. If you can't get a carrier that is small enough to stop any leaking, then change carrier o-rings and start the tuning process again.

If you are getting bolt stick (trigger is pressurized but doesn’t fire when you pull it) it is most likely due to your carrier being too tight. Increase the carrier size with the same o-ring till the gun fires but doesn't leak.

SHIMS:

The purpose of the shims is to allow the bolt to reset itself in the event that it moves forward slightly and stops on an obstacle (partially fed paintball.) Shims move the carrier o-ring closer to the bolt stem vent hole, which controls the point at which the gas vents from the bolt when it stops on a blockage like a partially fed paintball. Therefore, the chances of a static leak are increased with each shim added. This leak is often mistaken for a loose carrier o-ring. This is why you should remove all the shims when setting up the Level 10.

Shims are only ever needed if your bolt doesn't re-cock itself after it fires and stops on a blockage. Test this with a squeegee in the breech. The bolt should hit the squeegee, you'll hear a cough sound from the vented gas, and the bolt will reset itself and you can keep right on firing without missing a beat. If you do fire, hit a blockage, and the bolt doesn't reset, then add shims, one at a time, till the bolt consistently resets itself after hitting a blockage every time.

A constant leak out the front, when you can consistently shoot the gun, means you probably have too many shims in the powertube. Remove all shims when setting the Level 10 bolt system up. If it still leaks, then use the next smaller carrier with the same powertube carrier o-ring.

O-RINGS:

There are 3 o-rings in the powertube. There is a little black one around the outside of the carrier. This one almost never leaks because it never moves and it is squeezed quite tight. The white one then goes just inside the powertube tip to keep tension on the tip so it doesn't come unscrewed. It will never cause a leak. The third o-ring is the small white carrier o-ring that fits inside the powertube carrier. When you are changing carriers always use the same o-ring.

SPRINGS:

Use the shortest bolt spring first. That way you will be able to make sure the gun will actually fire, even if the carrier is a little too tight. The shorter bolt spring is a little more forgiving. Once you have the tuning of the carrier size done, you can go to a longer bolt spring and fine tune the operation now that the gun fires.

The long silver spring is stiffer than the red one. It will make the bolt move with less force than the red at the same velocity setting. The short gold spring will make the bolt move with more force at the same velocity setting.

RANDOM TIPS:

Make sure any pieces of dirt or Teflon tape aren't caught anywhere in your valve or powertube tip.

Make sure you are using an HPA air tank with a high pressure output.

Hold the trigger when gassing up your ‘Mag. It allows the o-rings to seat themselves better when air is applied.

[Needmorepaintball]

Thanks that really eliminated a lot of my questions about tuning.

Julian : dont worry man, if you find someone to get it working right you will be so happy, AGD guns are purely awesome when they are tuned correctly :)

[Needmorepaintball]

Ok so I got my air today and I was able to retune the gun and my results are quite nice I believe, but I want to double check them with you guys.

Tuning the gun with no shims and the short gold spring, I found that the #2 carrier had no leaks at gas up, but after I pull the trigger it leaks down the barrel. Also, that the leak gets bigger after every trigger pull. I assumed that this means that the carrier is too big, please tell me if I am wrong on this.

After that I put in the #1.5 carrier and had perfect results. The gun has no leaks at gas up, and no leaks after single shot and rapid fire operation. After testing the Lvl 10 on on the squeegie, i discovered it had a hair of trouble reseting after a couple of attempts. I then added 1 shim to the bolt and it stops every single time and resets with no trouble at all.

No I was not able to test the velocity of the gun at all, bc the glue I used on my backup Foamie for the bolt apparently was not up to par and I lost my backup Foamie :cuss:. lol So I placed an order for a new pack of those, any glue suggestions?

And I guess my final question for now, which spring should I switch too? As said I used the Shortest (Gold) Spring for this project, but should I use the Longer (Red) or the Longer (Silver) Spring for peak performace?

Thanks for all the informative posts and help

[DvS21]

you know the foamie isn't needed... It just helps with being gentle.

[athomas]

The red spring is the one most of us use for best all round performance.

[Needmorepaintball]

The red spring is the one most of us use for best all round performance.

I will work with it tomorrow and see if I am able to level out my velocity, now that I know the Foamie isnt required :)

I will post my results tomorrow. Hopefully this will help someone down the line (other than me of course lol)

[Needmorepaintball]

Ok guys, good news is my velocity did even out quite a bit now that she has been properly tuned. I still do have a couple questions (of course :)) For the new record, We now are using the Red Spring, #1.5 carrier, and 1-3 shims (see below).

1 - As long as I kept the velocity high, all was good. I was consistently in the low 300's. So naturally I wanted it lower, so I turned the nut down, not even a 1/4 turn, more like an 1/8 of a turn. Then she wouldn't fire. Does this mean I need to up the carrier size?

2 - When I am working on the Lvl 10's "No Chop" ability, I have come up with 2 options. With No shims in the gun, the bolt "Almost Always" hits the squeegie, backs up and resets. With 1 shim, it hits the Squeegie much harder, and takes longer to reset, and it much louder. With 2 shims, it bounces between option 1 and 2. Sometimes it hits easy and resets quickly, sometimes it hits hard and takes longer to reset. So I am assuming no shims is the way to go correct?

3 - A field I will be going to in the near future has a FPS limit of 250. I cannot turn my velocity below 270 before the gun no longer functions. I am assuming I need to use the #2 carrier (since I am currently using #1.5) to compensate for the bolt not moving as fast. Or could I just use the shorter spring? How do I go from working nearly perfect now, to 250fps without too much more hassle?

I know I am a college student that has a lot of dumb questions, but I really appreciate all you guys walking me through this. I appreciate you all :clap:

[athomas]

1. Once you have the level 10 tuned with the proper carrier sizes and number of shims, it is tuned for all velocities. If the gun won't fire at lower velocities, then it means you are using a bolt spring that is too stiff for your setup. You need to go to a lighter bolt spring. If you are using the grey spring, go to the red spring. If you are using the red spring, go to the short gold spring.

2. shims don't affect the amount of force the bolt hits with. Shims only affect how far the bolt must travel before it can reset if it hits a blockage. One shim shortens the distance by 0.010". If your shims are causing the problems you are experiencing, then there may be a piece of debris in there as well. If you put too many shims in, sometimes you will push the carrier oring against the backing washer and cause it to compress inward on the bolt stem causing bolt stick, thus acting like a carrier that is too tight. Due to the small distances that the shims change, most of the time you never need them anyway.

3. Use the shortest spring.

No question is a bad question.