AO'ers help revive AGD

[stevewar]

I'm just going to throw this out here because I love AGD; have owned and played with only 1 gun since 1993, and wouldn't trade my classic in for the world..

We all want to see AGD thrive and continue with the innovation and quality that all "maggers" have grown to love and expect out of our equipment. Now I'm farily new to this board, but I know about Tom's retirement and have read the threads about AGDs financial struggles. It's a shame to watch such a great company who values their customers and provides the best customer service in the busness, along with top quality products, be devalued by garbage markers created for the sole purpose of being sold at Wal-mart.

That said, AGD needs sales, and there is a way that all of us AO'ers can help. With the HUGE fan base, AGD needs to create an affiliate sales program so that WE can advertise for them. All those who are willing to learn how affiliate and internet marketing works for the purpose of helping AGD grow please chime in. Hopefully we can convince AGD to develop the program and grow.

If anyone from AGD reads this post, I can help with developing the program and with web site development.

please please please get in touch with me.

-Steve Warshaw

[Piranti]

AGD has become a niche market for a niche set of players. They still have sales, but for the most part where Mainstream Paintball is going AGD is unwilling to go. Partly due to the Smart Parts crap years ago. AGD has become alot like AKA in that they have a very loyal following and their markers have high resale value. They do still sponsor Black Cat Scenario Productions.

There has been a resurgence of Mags on fields lately it seems though. Here in socal we got near 30 people to attend a AO day all had a blast and most had at least 1 mag in addition to their 'other' markers.

[stevewar]

AGD has become a niche market for a niche set of players. They still have sales, but for the most part where Mainstream Paintball is going AGD is unwilling to go. Partly due to the Smart Parts crap years ago. AGD has become alot like AKA in that they have a very loyal following and their markers have high resale value. They do still sponsor Black Cat Scenario Productions.

There has been a resurgence of Mags on fields lately it seems though. Here in socal we got near 30 people to attend a AO day all had a blast and most had at least 1 mag in addition to their 'other' markers.

I firmly belive there exists a healthy market for folks who want to buy high quality paintball markers, and AGD makes them. If we do our part to drive excitement for the products, you WILL see more entry level players showing up with mags. Don't under estimate the power of word of mouth ads.

Now I understand that smart parts has tried to patent everything related to paintball, but that just means the innovation has to be fresh, and the products have to be put in front of the right people. I don't really care of AGD goes main stream, but I certainly want them to have enough cash flow to run a healthy, thriving business and continue to innovate and deliver new products.

[BigEvil]

AO has probably been the main supporters of AGD and the automag platform since they fell out of the limelight. "WE" can only do so much.

It is not within the laws of time and space for a company to thrive like the big boys when selling $500 mechanical paintball markers, while the competition sells $300 ones that can out perform it.

However, AGD can still thrive in the niche market for as long as it chooses to. There are still things about AGD products that are far superior to just about any other. The fact that the company is run and supported by good people also makes it attractive to many players who loathe some of the other BS that goes on in the industry.

[TnDeathInc]

Tom isnt retired....Tom WAITS....

It makes me feel good to think so.

[questionful]

If you guys really want to help AGD, go onto http://forum.specialopspaintball.com

If we can convince all those tippy fans over to AGD, it will domino. Just go on there, get your marketing hats on, and convert convert convert!!!

But it's double-edged. Part of the reason I like mags is because they're a niche.


:cry:

[nathanjones008]

its going to take alot of work! I am worn out on trying! I think somone should buy out AGD to make newer products. That is the companies best bet to rise. :clap:

Unless they have a change of heart.

[questionful]

I think somone should buy out AGD to make newer products.

:mad:


:shooting: :shooting: :shooting: :shooting: :shooting: :shooting: :shooting: nathanjones008

[nathanjones008]

:mad:


:shooting: :shooting: :shooting: :shooting: :shooting: :shooting: :shooting: nathanjones008


Hey do not get mad at me. When the inventory runs out they are gone. I rather see them go trying rather than doing NoTHING!

Do what you gotta do to survive.

think about it. :cheers:

[nathanjones008]

Now that i am thinking about it. Pushing agd hard core may be counter productive. If the sales boost for agd then they will go under quicker if they do not replenish stock. It appears they they do not have no intentions for replenishing anything. Considering the recent price spikes.

[questionful]

What are you talking about they are still making stuff and will continue doing so.

[nathanjones008]

Its my understanding that they have came to a hault or making things at a VERY slow rate. I am not sure if you have looked at the prices in airgun.com The (old prices) on a pro classic was 230.00 the prices of a mini mag was 240.00 the warp feed was 60-70 bucks depending on color. The emag is no longer in production. Now the proclassic mag and mini mag is 259.00 the warp feed is 99~106.00 I have been told buy many that the company is selling off OLD stock then closing the doors. Since the stock is low they are making as much $$ as possible before the end.

[Papa_Smurf]

Why did you make two threads?

http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=220025

[RogueFactor]

Hey do not get mad at me. When the inventory runs out they are gone. I rather see them go trying rather than doing NoTHING!

Do what you gotta do to survive.

think about it. :cheers:

Hogwash.

AGD has been replenshing their inventory for at least the last year. ULE bodies, XValves, Level 10 kits, ULT's, Rails, Parts, etc etc. To say they are doing nothing is just plain ignorant.

I have thought about it. The Mag is the best mech out there. Electro-mags are just as good as any other e-markers in existence.

[stevewar]

its going to take alot of work! I am worn out on trying! I think somone should buy out AGD to make newer products. That is the companies best bet to rise. :clap:

Unless they have a change of heart.


I don't think you guys understand the concept of an affliate program. Think Amazon.com. Essentially AGD pays you a commission for sending people to them and making sales. It's marketing that only costs them money when they actually make a sale, and is the best way for a small company to get their name rolling.

[stevewar]

Now that i am thinking about it. Pushing agd hard core may be counter productive. If the sales boost for agd then they will go under quicker if they do not replenish stock. It appears they they do not have no intentions for replenishing anything. Considering the recent price spikes.


From everything I've read from them they are still plugging away, and haven't made any suggestion that they won't continue to replenish stock. Having income would only help bring up production capabilities.

[MANN]

See the problem is they are already at the top with mech markers, and probally with the e markers also. Making something that never breaks means everyone will only buy 1.

[Anjin3515]

Id have to say I trust Rogue on this one.I would think as a dealer he would be aware of AGD status with inventory etc....

Would we all like to see AGD come out with something new....sure. But....the mag is so well designed...its hard to top. Yes there are cheaper guns that "outperform" it...but most if not all of those are electros. Mags are about as good as it gets when it comes to mech markers.

I for one don't mind a grass roots effort to get more sales for them. It never hurts to help out.

That being said.....the Mag valve and bolt system are fantastic! I don't know if they need to be touched at all. What I would like to see is a wider range of bodies and rails. Yeah I know its all cosmetic....but cosmetic can sell a lot of markers...even more so when backed up by the great internals the Mag has. Just look at the Tippmann....yes I know its milsim and I am not saying Mags should go milsim....but....there are hundreds of cosmetic upgrades for them...and people pay for them (sometimes outrageous prices). Or look at the ION and all its "body kits"...those things sell like crazy too.

I think as a marker the Mag is fine as is. Maybe it could use some style upgrades. Right now if you want to cosmetically mod your mag you have to do it yourself or have it custom done. Now this can be a chicken and egg situation....why make cosmetic parts for something that only sells "niche" numbers....but will these cosmetic parts make more sales??? I don't have an answer for that.

Again going back to Tippmann...its a mech marker (and IMHO no where near as good as a Mag).....they put out the X-7...basically an A-5 that can be easily cosmetically changed....that was in fact the whole marketing push for the X-7...."one gun, a thousand looks"...you rarely saw ad's touting its performance. What ever you think of Tippmann....they got the marketing thing down pretty good....and they sell a lot of markers.

Sad as it may sound but people are drawn to looks as well as performance. Sometimes more so to looks. There are a ton of people who add pounds of weight to their marker just to make it look different. There are a ton of people who buy "body kits" to change their marker to a favorite color. Right now...thats hard to do with a Mag....I'm not sure....I don't know....but maybe something like that would help them.

[Papa_Smurf]

See the problem is they are already at the top with mech markers, and probally with the e markers also. Making something that never breaks means everyone will only buy 1.


I must be an idiot then.


/What does that make A-Tach?

[rkjunior303]

LOL. Another one of these threads.

Honeslty, *IF* AGD was in any type of trouble and say this was true - why should anyone outside of the company make any effort to try to save them if they aren't making the effort themselves? You would think if they truly CARED about supporting their current customers while also making an effort to generate new business, they would make some sort of noticable effort....... If they don't care, why should we care?

Just saying. You could use this arguement for any company.

For AGD, anyways, I doubt they're in danger of going under at any point in the near future but do I think they're just doing the bare minimum to tread water? sure. They're making their sales and selling to their niche, and its keeping them afloat - which is probably fine by them.

[olinar]

really, what can they do?

theyve got everything down pat.

im sure if the sp thing didnt go down there would be one of the baddest assed electros on the face of the planet from agd, but im fine with an emag.

the only thing that i want that agd doesnt have is 2 things.

a double trigger carbon fiber frame. as well as a nice set of sticky style grips to fir them, thats all i would ever need.

[Ninjeff]

sure does make you wonder where AGD would be if the whole smart-farts thing never happened.



I wonder what we would be shooting?

[personman]

I'm just going to throw this out here because I love AGD; have owned and played with only 1 gun since 1993, and wouldn't trade my classic in for the world..
YOU, SIR, ARE DISGUSTING. IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT BRING AGD DOWN. HOW DARE YOU USE THE SAME AUTOMAG FOR 14 YEARS. OF COURSE AGD WONT MAKE ANY MONEY, BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU KEEP USING THE SAME GUN!
srsly now.

[PumpMag]

The existence of this forum keeps AGD going....and going.....and going.......

But being out of the mainstream, no advertising, and not being able to find AGD products at your local store has gotta hurt any AGD sales growth.

[EclipseClassic]

I have seen and influx in a different breed of players. I have friends that still use pump guns and pistols. I think this could be a great market for AGD to tap in to. Selling pump conversion kits and revamped sydarms at a decent price could bring in some business. I think cosmetic upgrades would be appreciated too.

[warbeak2099]

I love shooting a mag and all, but AGD has like no marketing skills whatsoever. They are not agressive enough and until they decide to be, nothing we do is going to make a difference. They are content to be complacent.

[lather]

Its my understanding that they have came to a hault or making things at a VERY slow rate. I am not sure if you have looked at the prices in airgun.com The (old prices) on a pro classic was 230.00 the prices of a mini mag was 240.00 the warp feed was 60-70 bucks depending on color. The emag is no longer in production. Now the proclassic mag and mini mag is 259.00 the warp feed is 99~106.00 I have been told buy many that the company is selling off OLD stock then closing the doors. Since the stock is low they are making as much $$ as possible before the end.


I'll be the first to admit I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box when it comes to running a business, but if AGD is merely getting rid of existing inventory with the objective of closing its doors--wouldnt prices be falling instead of rising? :tard:

My economics 101 brain tells me that prices go up due to rising costs of materials, manufacturing and/or demand, so raising prices to get rid of existing inventory does not make any sense.

I'm willing to bet that AGD is just merely running a tight ship with low overhead while servicing a niche market. With such a low overhead they are probably much better prepared to ride out the soft paintball market and will be in business a lot longer than some of the percieved more "sucessful" companies.

[Lenny]

I'm just waiting for Tom to chime in and tell you all wa's up. :cool:

[nathanjones008]

I'll be the first to admit I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box when it comes to running a business, but if AGD is merely getting rid of existing inventory with the objective of closing its doors--wouldnt prices be falling instead of rising? :tard:

My economics 101 brain tells me that prices go up due to rising costs of materials, manufacturing and/or demand, so raising prices to get rid of existing inventory does not make any sense.

I'm willing to bet that AGD is just merely running a tight ship with low overhead while servicing a niche market. With such a low overhead they are probably much better prepared to ride out the soft paintball market and will be in business a lot longer than some of the percieved more "sucessful" companies.

Think about it ,AGD used to one of the biggest(paintball) manufactuers in the country. And now they moved to a basement or a garage. Does this not make you guys a little bit nervous? :cry:

Look at AKA, SP screwed them up. They basically put them out of business. ANyhow I checked there websight(no more than 6 months) I still see the viking.(which was hasnt made any new model in since 04) for 700.00(which was left over stock) Really expensive for going under, dont you think? I just checked the websight now and the vikings,are no longer availiable(sold) but all the accesssories are still at full priced not reduced. So it is wise of them to sell it for full price, to get as much $$ as possible. AKA If they are in business, they are selling off old stock and bearly hanging by a thread,

It is POSSIBLE that agd is heading in the same or SIMiLar(For the time being AGD is a lil better off) forbidden path. :cry:

Makes me wonder. :confused:

[magmonkey]

AKA is leads metal products, a machine shop in indianapolis and has alot more going on then just paintball,
they are not out of the paintball business, they still build some of the best regs on the market

[mstrdbz]

Think about it ,AGD used to one of the biggest(paintball) manufactuers in the country. And now they moved to a basement or a garage. Does this not make you guys a little bit nervous? :cry:

How many manufactures actually run out of a large faculity? A dozen maybe? And I'd wager that most of those only have large faculities to accomidate warehousing, because they don't actually produce the product, just assemble and ship.

Most of the niche markers probably do come from someones garage or basement, if you stop and think about it. I agree with lather that there just trying to keep cost down. A smart move for any business, no matter what the size. Instead of having to pay for a building they no longer need, they just pay for webhosting, like AKA.

Look at AKA, SP screwed them up. They basically put them out of business. ANyhow I checked there websight(no more than 6 months) I still see the viking.(which was hasnt made any new model in since 04) for 700.00(which was left over stock) Really expensive for going under, dont you think? I just checked the websight now and the vikings,are no longer availiable(sold) but all the accesssories are still at full priced not reduced. So it is wise of them to sell it for full price, to get as much $$ as possible. AKA If they are in business, they are selling off old stock and bearly hanging by a thread,

Do you have infomation that AKA is going out of business? Or are you basing your hypothesis on the fact that they haven't made a new marker in the last three years? To me it look like AKA was forced to become another niche company, being run out of someone's garage or basement. It is wise of them to sell their accessories for full price, because that's what their worth.

It is POSSIBLE that agd is heading in the same or SIMiLar(For the time being AGD is a lil better off) forbidden path. :cry:

It is also possible that since we don't see the financial records of AGD that they could be on the 'path of redemption'.

Makes me wonder. :confused:

I don't.

[stevewar]

YOU, SIR, ARE DISGUSTING. IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT BRING AGD DOWN. HOW DARE YOU USE THE SAME AUTOMAG FOR 14 YEARS. OF COURSE AGD WONT MAKE ANY MONEY, BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU KEEP USING THE SAME GUN!
srsly now.

Well that's and interesting opinion. Being that I've replaced parts and internals, loaned the gun out to people who have purchased their own, smoked guys on the field and had them ask "dear God, what is that thing?". Trust me, I've made AGD plenty of money.

[stevewar]

I'm just glad this thread has got people thinking.


And to he** with smart parts :mad:

[st6212]

Well that's and interesting opinion. Being that I've replaced parts and internals, loaned the gun out to people who have purchased their own, smoked guys on the field and had them ask "dear God, what is that thing?". Trust me, I've made AGD plenty of money.

I think he was just being sarcastic :)

[TheTramp]

I’m honestly surprised that AGD hasn’t aggressively pushed the scenario market. Look at Tippman and Spec-Ops. You can order a 1000 aftermarket things for the A-5 (cosmentic and not) but AGD doesn’t seem to be pursuing the obvious interest (“longbow” for example).

[stevewar]

I think he was just being sarcastic :)

Oh, I hope so. It can be so hard to tell in text sometimes

[warbeak2099]

I’m honestly surprised that AGD hasn’t aggressively pushed the scenario market. Look at Tippman and Spec-Ops. You can order a 1000 aftermarket things for the A-5 (cosmentic and not) but AGD doesn’t seem to be pursuing the obvious interest (“longbow” for example).

Like I said, they are content to be complacent. They are not aggressive.

[stevewar]

I’m honestly surprised that AGD hasn’t aggressively pushed the scenario market. Look at Tippman and Spec-Ops. You can order a 1000 aftermarket things for the A-5 (cosmentic and not) but AGD doesn’t seem to be pursuing the obvious interest (“longbow” for example).


Yeah no kidding. I mean you can look online and find guys who are making custom rails, frames, bodies, pneumatic parts, and all sorts of other add ons for the mag.

And I'm tired of people saying that the MAG is only for a niche market. Paintball IS a niche market. I promise you that if enough people beat the AGD drum people would listen. I know that when I take my mag out and my friends ask me "is that the same gun you've used for all of these years?" and I tell them yes, that they are amazed. Pass that on to a parent who is going to buy a marker for their kid and compare it to any of the POS markers they'll find at Wal-Mart that may last a season or two and they will see the value.

Think about the stupid Quaker State commercials. They show one car with another company's oil in the egnine and another car with Quaker State. The "other" car blows up first and that makes people want to buy Quaker State. OIL IS OIL! Can you imagine if we took a Shocker or an Angle and put it up against a mag in an endurance test? It would be like comparing a pinto to a toyota.


My point is that AGD dones't have to create anything new to drum up sales. If we are able to get the open source paintball group rolling, just imagine how huge a player AGD could become by supplying IP into that group. They could build xmags under the umbrella of open source IP protection and still keep the materials and manufacturing processes to themselves and we could buy a friggin XMAG again damnit!

[Dark Side]

Only if money could be made from the production of said Xmags. No one in their right mind will build a product that won't make them money(unless you have a few billion sitting around and feel generous).

[nathanjones008]

I don't.


Listen i said AKA is screwed up. They are basically out of business. The webight www.akalmp.com says they are prohibited from making markers. If they can not make markers then the are up the creek.I said that agd is doing a little better cause they still make mech markers, not(main stream electros). No one has to know how much $$ they make to see how they are doing. Tom k saod so himself they the comapny is in deep $$ problems. On top of that they moved in a basement of garage. They are no longer on the tourney scene. There is no longer avdertising. There is so many signs out there it is undeniable!

So the company is a niche market, that is hanging, PERPHaps( not for certain) on a thread.

[Muzikman]

Listen i said AKA is screwed up. There are basically out of business. The webight www.akalmp.com says they are prohibited from making markers. If they can not make markers then the are up the creek.I said that agd is doing a little better cause they still make mech markers, not(main stream electros). No one has to know how much $$ they make to see how they are doing. Tom k saod so himself they the comapny is in deep $$ problems. On top of that they moved in a basement of garage. They are no longer on the tourney scene. There is no longer avdertising. There is so many signs out there it is undeniable.

So the company is a niche market, that is hanging, PERPHaps( not for certain) on a thread.

Markers are not everything. There have been many sucessful companies that make nothing but accessories for other guns.

[rkjunior303]

Listen i said AKA is screwed up. They are basically out of business. The webight www.akalmp.com says they are prohibited from making markers. If they can not make markers then the are up the creek.I said that agd is doing a little better cause they still make mech markers, not(main stream electros). No one has to know how much $$ they make to see how they are doing. Tom k saod so himself they the comapny is in deep $$ problems. On top of that they moved in a basement of garage. They are no longer on the tourney scene. There is no longer avdertising. There is so many signs out there it is undeniable.

So the company is a niche market, that is hanging, PERPHaps( not for certain) on a thread.

AKA had a non-paintball business well before they had a paintball business. They are NOT out of business - just another comment by someone who has only PART of the information and they feel like they are an expert.

[nathanjones008]

Markers are not everything. There have been many sucessful companies that make nothing but accessories for other guns.


you have a point.

[Muzikman]

Pass that on to a parent who is going to buy a marker for their kid and compare it to any of the POS markers they'll find at Wal-Mart that may last a season or two and they will see the value.


You have to remember, the turn around time for new players is about a year these days. Cheap markers that will last a year is all your new player needs. It will outlast his interest in the sport in most cases.

[nathanjones008]

AKA had a non-paintball business well before they had a paintball business. They are NOT out of business - just another comment by someone who has only PART of the information and they feel like they are an expert.


ok expert. What is whole story? I would love to hear it, thanks. :)

:hail:

[stevewar]

You have to remember, the turn around time for new players is about a year these days. Cheap markers that will last a year is all your new player needs. It will outlast his interest in the sport in most cases.


Could it be possible that the turn around time is 1 year becuase people are playing with crappy equipment that looks cool but doesn't work for isht and thus they don't have any fun?

I know my first gun was a Tipman 68 special. Heavy as hell, made of aircraft aluminum and durable. That thing never gave me any problems. Meanwhile the guys with the first bactch of Cockers spent more time fixing that damn thing than they did playing.

I would bet, it's not far from that now. You just can't go buy a $200 electro and think it's going to hold up.

[BigEvil]

Could it be possible that the turn around time is 1 year becuase people are playing with crappy equipment that looks cool but doesn't work for isht and thus they don't have any fun?

I know my first gun was a Tipman 68 special. Heavy as hell, made of aircraft aluminum and durable. That thing never gave me any problems. Meanwhile the guys with the first bactch of Cockers spent more time fixing that damn thing than they did playing.

I would bet, it's not far from that now. You just can't go buy a $200 electro and think it's going to hold up.


Ehhh I dont think its the equipment that is the problem. The game is prohibitively expensive in its current format for many. Also, when you think about it.. how many fields really cater to their noobies? How many just throw them in open class games where they get the holy-gebus shot out of them?

If you started out with a 68 special.. you have probably been around for a while. I would bet
your noobie experiences are much different from modern day beginners.

[stevewar]

Ehhh I dont think its the equipment that is the problem. The game is prohibitively expensive in its current format for many. Also, when you think about it.. how many fields really cater to their noobies? How many just throw them in open class games where they get the holy-gebus shot out of them?

If you started out with a 68 special.. you have probably been around for a while. I would bet
your noobie experiences are much different from modern day beginners.

well to tell the truth, I first started playing with rental carter pumps back in the day, but that's another topic.

I agree with your comment about walk-on games. I started playing at SC Villiage in California and everyone wsa pretyt mucha noob. Once the team guys started showing up and playing against walk-ons it made it difficult to have much fun. However, there came a point where the guys I played with and I were able to teach the noobs a thing or two and combined with our knowledge of the fields, we were able to mop the floor with team players. That's the nice thing about woods ball. I hate the stuff they put on TV and call paintball. Inflatable barries and fields you can shoot and see all of the way across is an extreme sport and the team with the fastest and most agile players win 99% of the time. Sure there are some tactics, but they are very simple, and don't require great coordination of a large team. Besides, it's good for noobs (who are at least 15 or 16 yrs old) to get the k-rap shot out of them. It brings them back down to earth!

That said I don't think the costs of playing the game are that out of reach. If you can adjust your budget and afford the gun, you can prioritize and and afford to play. And this says nothing of just going out into the woods and playing some paintball which is very common here in the Pacific Northwest. The only cost in that situation is paint and air. I think your point of the experience needing to be enjoyable is the topic to focus on, and there is no doubt in my mind that having equipment that works by far the number 1 most important aspect. It doesn't matter how cool the field is, and how friendly the other players are if your gun is constantly having mechanical issues or chops balls and doesn't allow you to actually take anybody out. I've been playing a long time, and seeing that ball break on an opponent is still exciting!

[Anjin3515]

I think cost does prohibit some play...well at least around me.
$15 to $18 to get in the door....and paint that costs $65 to $90 a case.
Its like playing golf...but more fun :)
Its just an expensive hobby....and a lot of people just don't have the cash to go very often. I know 3 or 4 guys who were interested in getting their own markers...but after looking at the cost of play they realized they could only do it MAYBE once a month...and didnt think that would justify getting their own equipment.

[Sumthinwicked]

what would help agd is a paypal donations button or a fee for the members of this site like 5 a month id pay ;) . L:OL either way if agd wanted to change to making differant things for the WOODSBALL crowd: turning the longbow into a semi gun with a regular air valve and a single trigger frame would help them lower the cost and sell more guns and still making a nice profit. Basically put an air valve in and a cf frame and sell for like 600 it would help sales alot in my eyes i have only sold 3 this way though ;P. Changing a few things around would be easy to do if there was enough profit. The fact that they are still around pleases me..... I'll have my longbows (2 of them)for many many years and the only thing ill need is orings thats never a bad thing!~ Make more newer items hell yea id love to see it.. Rerelease the pumpkits would help to in my eyes sell em for 100 i know they would sell i have sold 4 pumpmags at a healthy profit ;). Make a mountable mag with a superwarp for the tanks of the game prebuilt mounted weapons on a tripod i know id buy it for my tank.. A warp that can feed 7 feet at a high rate of fire would be nice for those tanks with like a custom bucket hopper for a case things like this would sell but would they sell enough to bother designing them? Prob not hense why they arent made.....

[ProblemKinder]

well to tell the truth, I first started playing with rental carter pumps back in the day, but that's another topic.

I agree with your comment about walk-on games. I started playing at SC Villiage in California and everyone wsa pretyt mucha noob. Once the team guys started showing up and playing against walk-ons it made it difficult to have much fun. However, there came a point where the guys I played with and I were able to teach the noobs a thing or two and combined with our knowledge of the fields, we were able to mop the floor with team players. That's the nice thing about woods ball. I hate the stuff they put on TV and call paintball. Inflatable barries and fields you can shoot and see all of the way across is an extreme sport and the team with the fastest and most agile players win 99% of the time. Sure there are some tactics, but they are very simple, and don't require great coordination of a large team. Besides, it's good for noobs (who are at least 15 or 16 yrs old) to get the k-rap shot out of them. It brings them back down to earth!

still exciting!


:confused:

[stevewar]

:confused:

What I was trying to convey is that for the noob, playing on a "speedball" field is inappropriate. Also, winning on the type of field depends more on manual dexterity than playing in the woods which requires sounds tactics and a coordinated effort.

[questionful]

I think it all boils down to "AGD and/or AO'ers need(s) to put on its/their dang marketing hat(s)!"

[sdlm_]

You want marketing? All that needs to happen is production pneumags from the factory, not a kit, not a do-it-yourself project, prebuilt and ready to run pneumags, they are fast, light durable, and reliable.

It is a hard sell to get people to buy a mag at least in my neck of the woods, I bring my mag out there, beat a few people on the hyperball field and they ask me what type of board I have. When I explain to them what an Automag is, they are still excited, and then when I let them goto shoot it, they think it is broken or something. They ask questions like "What did you do to make it shoot so fast?" I answer "pull the trigger" but, I suppose people are not sold on potential they are sold on instant gratification, I have after all had years to get used to an Automag.... (I still have my .68 Special and it is always a fun marker to bring out to the field!)

What we also need, is to reverse the demographics and start to get more older people playing....

[maniacmechanic]

I started shootin Mags just over a year ago & started with the 68's & now have 2 E-Mags , I've converted at least 5 others into Mag ownership , all are woodsballers
just about all it takes is give 'em a loaner & some good paint & let'em shoot ball on top of ball at 70 to 80 feet

[stevewar]

I started shootin Mags just over a year ago & started with the 68's & now have 2 E-Mags , I've converted at least 5 others into Mag ownership , all are woodsballers
just about all it takes is give 'em a loaner & some good paint & let'em shoot ball on top of ball at 70 to 80 feet


Can I get an Amen?

I think I might just order a couple of Tac-1's for this exact purpose.

[warbeak2099]

What I was trying to convey is that for the noob, playing on a "speedball" field is inappropriate. Also, winning on the type of field depends more on manual dexterity than playing in the woods which requires sounds tactics and a coordinated effort.

Please tell me you're joking. Seriously that's pretty ignorant. Tourny ball requires just as much tactics and coordination as woodsball. If not more...

[rkjunior303]

I started shootin Mags just over a year ago & started with the 68's & now have 2 E-Mags , I've converted at least 5 others into Mag ownership , all are woodsballers
just about all it takes is give 'em a loaner & some good paint & let'em shoot ball on top of ball at 70 to 80 feet

what's so magical about a mag that allows it to shoot ball on ball, unlike any other marker out there with proper paint/barrel match and some decent paint?

[AGD-OfficeGal]

Its my understanding that they have came to a hault or making things at a VERY slow rate. I am not sure if you have looked at the prices in airgun.com The (old prices) on a pro classic was 230.00 the prices of a mini mag was 240.00 the warp feed was 60-70 bucks depending on color. The emag is no longer in production. Now the proclassic mag and mini mag is 259.00 the warp feed is 99~106.00 I have been told buy many that the company is selling off OLD stock then closing the doors. Since the stock is low they are making as much $$ as possible before the end.

Yes - OLD OLD prices. Set how many years ago? Many before I started working there, and I've been here 7 years now.

We didn't raise prices for a long time - but all our suppliers DID. And *when* we replenish inventory (we do), we have to pay the higher prices. Figure the math.

Marcia
AGD-USA

[Warwitch]

Please tell me you're joking. Seriously that's pretty ignorant. Tourny ball requires just as much tactics and coordination as woodsball. If not more...


QFT, dont get me wrong, I love woodsball. But speedball is not unlike most CQB settings. Shooting lanes, shifting positions, stacking, etc.... I wouldnt say it takes more skill/tactics just different.

[stevewar]

Yes - OLD OLD prices. Set how many years ago? Many before I started working there, and I've been here 7 years now.

We didn't raise prices for a long time - but all our suppliers DID. And *when* we replenish inventory (we do), we have to pay the higher prices. Figure the math.

Marcia
AGD-USA


Ahh the voice of reason! Thanks Marcia

[stevewar]

Please tell me you're joking. Seriously that's pretty ignorant. Tourny ball requires just as much tactics and coordination as woodsball. If not more...


I agree that tournament ball takes tactics, but it is not at the level of woodsball played by people who actually use field tactics. I don't want to get into a pissing match, but if you would like a list of my reasons for thinking then PM me as I would love to have an intelligent discussion about it.

[rkjunior303]

I agree that tournament ball takes tactics, but it is not at the level of woodsball played by people who actually use field tactics. I don't want to get into a pissing match, but if you would like a list of my reasons for thinking then PM me as I would love to have an intelligent discussion about it.

"field tactics?"

you've got to be kidding me. It's paintball, not war. Run as far up in the woods as you can before they do, shoot as many as you can before they shoot you, put your gun up, and walk off the field until the next game.

It's not uncommon to walk *1* field for multiple hours before a tournament developing tactics on how to play the field.

[stevewar]

"field tactics?"

you've got to be kidding me. It's paintball, not war. Run as far up in the woods as you can before they do, shoot as many as you can before they shoot you, put your gun up, and walk off the field until the next game. Lol, yeah that'll work versus a group of guys who know the field and play together in a coordinated fashion. I wish you luck

It's not uncommon to walk *1* field for multiple hours before a tournament developing tactics on how to play the field.


Whatever, it's this type of attitude that has ruined the game for new players and is bringing down the game. Tournament fields were designed for one reason. TV. It's lame to watch, it's lame to play. And, if you're not sponsored and actually have to pay for you own paint, it's also expensive. It's much too fast for new players, and older people. There is no joy of actually being able to sneak up behind someone and shoot them in the ***, or to make a huge push up one side of the field and come around the back of unsuspecting defenders. Flat out, it's BORING.

[lt500]

Please stick to the topic. But every type of paintball has tactics, whether it's really complex or when you run in shooting, those are all tactics.

If AGD really wanted to get back into mainstream paintball they could very easily. They would just have to make a few changes to fit the mainstream paintballer. Lets face it, today people are into electronic triggers, high ROF, light wieght, and gas efficiency. AGD would just make the X-valve lighter, cycle a tad faster, and make it to where it doesn't use as much air. Add an ACE system to every gun and boom, back in the game. If a team was sponsered and started winning some big tourements, all the up and comers would notice and want a mag for Christmas.

[Sumthinwicked]

well it doesnt cycle fast enough for you find one that shoots faster than an xvalve THEY CANT when you have more than 42 posts then come back to us

[lt500]

Sorry, I didn't mean ROF but to lighen up the internals a bit to move a tad faster so you can bring down the input pressure and get better gas consumption. Less weight takes less air to move.

[d4m4don3]

Whatever, it's this type of attitude that has ruined the game for new players and is bringing down the game. Tournament fields were designed for one reason. TV. It's lame to watch, it's lame to play. And, if you're not sponsored and actually have to pay for you own paint, it's also expensive. It's much too fast for new players, and older people. There is no joy of actually being able to sneak up behind someone and shoot them in the ***, or to make a huge push up one side of the field and come around the back of unsuspecting defenders. Flat out, it's BORING.

I don't think so, speedball and woodsball have common tactics between them. I'd say the largest difference is in the size of the field and speed of the game. Adrenaline junkies will always flock to speedball because the game is faster paced and doesn't last more than 2-5 minutes per game. For those who like to hide in the bush, stalk or ambush woodsball is their bag.

Both games require you to have good familiarity with the field, any team will want to know the terrain they operate on. Any team will want to know where the best angles are to get the best kills. What makes or breaks the team is this knowledge the ability to communicate and knowledge of their own team mates skills and maneuver the field with confidence that each member will have their team mates backing them up.

And who says AGD needs to be revived? The markers are perfect in the woods and can compete on the speedball fields with enough modifications made available by the aftermarket vendors.

[rkjunior303]

Lol, yeah that'll work versus a group of guys who know the field and play together in a coordinated fashion. I wish you luck

that's exactly my point.. play speedball blindly vs a well-prepared team who knows the field, knows the angles, knows the lanes, etc - and you're going to get STOMPED.



Whatever, it's this type of attitude that has ruined the game for new players and is bringing down the game. Tournament fields were designed for one reason. TV. It's lame to watch, it's lame to play. And, if you're not sponsored and actually have to pay for you own paint, it's also expensive. It's much too fast for new players, and older people. There is no joy of actually being able to sneak up behind someone and shoot them in the ***, or to make a huge push up one side of the field and come around the back of unsuspecting defenders. Flat out, it's BORING.

Boring? You don't want to get me started about sitting in the woods and shooting every branch in front of you instead of your opponent.. and you're calling speedball boring? I'm not going to get in a speedball vs woodsball arguement because you're obviously a woodsball commando ... but saying the game is too fast for new players and old players - all you ahve to do is play within the same skill level that each individual player is... if you're new to speedball, you don't go and play 7man vs amateur teams - you join a rookie tournament,.

Last I checked, I didn't spend all this money on a sport so I could sneak around and not shoot at people..

[stevewar]

that's exactly my point.. play speedball blindly vs a well-prepared team who knows the field, knows the angles, knows the lanes, etc - and you're going to get STOMPED.




Boring? You don't want to get me started about sitting in the woods and shooting every branch in front of you instead of your opponent.. and you're calling speedball boring? I'm not going to get in a speedball vs woodsball arguement because you're obviously a woodsball commando ... but saying the game is too fast for new players and old players - all you ahve to do is play within the same skill level that each individual player is... if you're new to speedball, you don't go and play 7man vs amateur teams - you join a rookie tournament,.

Last I checked, I didn't spend all this money on a sport so I could sneak around and not shoot at people..

Consider this; give 1 guy on 1 team on a speedball field 2 paint grenades. What happens? The dynamics of the game are limited because the rules limit them. There is no room for using camoflauge and ambushing. So suffice it to say that when I said tactics, I meant dynamics. I don't want to offend anyone who plays the short fields; I'm NOT saying that it doesn't take skill, because it takes a great deal of skill. For me, it completely kills the spirit of paintball in order to commercialize the sport. This explains why there was such a huge expansion of the sport and now it's popularity has gone soft.

In either case this thread is about how to help AGG get their mojo back. Nobody seems to want to entertain the affiliate strategy which is mind boggling to me because it's a tried and true method of small business advertising. I am going to go through this entire thread and make a compile of everyones suggestions.

-Steve

[custar]

There is absolutely no need for the speedball and woodsball supporters of Automags to be at each other's throats. Speedball takes some specific skills and conditioning, and woodsball takes some different, specific skills and a different kind of conditioning. If there was more crossover, the players who obtained the skills from the other area would be better in their preferred area. It's all paintball guys, and Automags can be used for either.

That said, there are some things that AGD could do to promote sales. The Tac One is outstanding. Use it as a basis to make markers cosmetically similar to M4's and AK47's. These would definitely sell to the scenario players who spend up to $500.00 on Tippmanns with AK47 kits. The scenario side of PB is growing more than the speedball side, so take a lesson from Tippmann and SP and jump into that market. Give in to &^%%!#$()u*& SP, pay their licensing fee, and either start producing the e-mag lowers, possibly after updating the design, or producing another electro frame. For either market, get with the patent holders for the pneumatic trigger designs and work out something. There is a market for this.

In general, AGD needs to get to some events and become visible again. They don't need to sponsor the events, but it would be relatively inexpensive promotion to show up and be seen. I know there is an expense associated with this, but you have to spend money to make money.

custar

[maniacmechanic]

There is absolutely no need for the speedball and woodsball supporters of Automags to be at each other's throats. Speedball takes some specific skills and conditioning, and woodsball takes some different, specific skills and a different kind of conditioning. If there was more crossover, the players who obtained the skills from the other area would be better in their preferred area. It's all paintball guys, and Automags can be used for either.

That said, there are some things that AGD could do to promote sales. The Tac One is outstanding. Use it as a basis to make markers cosmetically similar to M4's and AK47's. These would definitely sell to the scenario players who spend up to $500.00 on Tippmanns with AK47 kits. The scenario side of PB is growing more than the speedball side, so take a lesson from Tippmann and SP and jump into that market. Give in to &^%%!#$()u*& SP, pay their licensing fee, and either start producing the e-mag lowers, possibly after updating the design, or producing another electro frame. For either market, get with the patent holders for the pneumatic trigger designs and work out something. There is a market for this.

In general, AGD needs to get to some events and become visible again. They don't need to sponsor the events, but it would be relatively inexpensive promotion to show up and be seen. I know there is an expense associated with this, but you have to spend money to make money.


custar

This is the first post in this thread that i'm in total agreement with

[Sumthinwicked]

sitting at a game cant be that much ;) hit up skirimish theres always a bunch of mag players there for the bigger games just in spare orings and parts youll make your fee for the table even endgame showed they only sell a few barrels .....

[stevewar]

There is absolutely no need for the speedball and woodsball supporters of Automags to be at each other's throats. Speedball takes some specific skills and conditioning, and woodsball takes some different, specific skills and a different kind of conditioning. If there was more crossover, the players who obtained the skills from the other area would be better in their preferred area. It's all paintball guys, and Automags can be used for either.

That said, there are some things that AGD could do to promote sales. The Tac One is outstanding. Use it as a basis to make markers cosmetically similar to M4's and AK47's. These would definitely sell to the scenario players who spend up to $500.00 on Tippmanns with AK47 kits. The scenario side of PB is growing more than the speedball side, so take a lesson from Tippmann and SP and jump into that market. Give in to &^%%!#$()u*& SP, pay their licensing fee, and either start producing the e-mag lowers, possibly after updating the design, or producing another electro frame. For either market, get with the patent holders for the pneumatic trigger designs and work out something. There is a market for this.

In general, AGD needs to get to some events and become visible again. They don't need to sponsor the events, but it would be relatively inexpensive promotion to show up and be seen. I know there is an expense associated with this, but you have to spend money to make money.

custar


I completely agree. In fact, if AGD were to allow me to use their logos or banners that they already have I would be happy to go to the local fields 1 weekend per month and setup a booth in the parking lot (I know the owners of the fields.. They'd let me) with a couple of customized classics, tac-1's, an RT-ULE, and my pneu. Play a few rounds with the pneu and I bet people will come by and check it out. Good idea custar!

[LK-13]

is AGD really hurting this bad?
Is AGD really about to close it's doors forever or are we making mountains out of mole hills?

[speed_ga]

I completely agree. In fact, if AGD were to allow me to use their logos or banners that they already have I would be happy to go to the local fields 1 weekend per month and setup a booth in the parking lot (I know the owners of the fields.. They'd let me) with a couple of customized classics, tac-1's, an RT-ULE, and my pneu. Play a few rounds with the pneu and I bet people will come by and check it out. Good idea custar!


haha you really think that would help AGD revive it's downfall over the past few years. Lets face it....AGD ran out of money, ideas, and good principle economics. They by far have a great gun....but haven't updated it. And all you AGD fanboys will say "if it doesn't have any faults let it be" well what if humans never thought about producing a heater instead of using a old fashioned circle pit fire. Would you want to have gazing flames in your living room...probley not. And where i'm getting at here is that AGD is LAZY!!! JUST plain and simple. They don't want to expand there company...produce new parts.....or change it's plan in designing a nice electro like the emag was. It's makes me laugh how jokable AGD really is. They can't accomplish anything that will get them to move forward in the paintball industry. I mean what Bill Gates stopped at windows 95. Hahahaha!! What a bunch of fools some people are to support AGD after they are downsizing and therefore in the future eliminating AGD as a name and as a product on the paintball market.

[Sumthinwicked]

your on this site for what ??????like i said before if you only have 29 posts sthu :mad: noob

[stevewar]

haha you really think that would help AGD revive it's downfall over the past few years. Lets face it....AGD ran out of money, ideas, and good principle economics. They by far have a great gun....but haven't updated it. And all you AGD fanboys will say "if it doesn't have any faults let it be" well what if humans never thought about producing a heater instead of using a old fashioned circle pit fire. Would you want to have gazing flames in your living room...probley not. And where i'm getting at here is that AGD is LAZY!!! JUST plain and simple. They don't want to expand there company...produce new parts.....or change it's plan in designing a nice electro like the emag was. It's makes me laugh how jokable AGD really is. They can't accomplish anything that will get them to move forward in the paintball industry. I mean what Bill Gates stopped at windows 95. Hahahaha!! What a bunch of fools some people are to support AGD after they are downsizing and therefore in the future eliminating AGD as a name and as a product on the paintball market.


This is an AGD forum. If you don't like them that is ok, you do not have to. I just don't understand why you would waiste your time posting on a board that is for fans of the company and the product. I think you should stop trying to stir the pot here and use your time for something productive.

[warbeak2099]

This is an AGD forum. If you don't like them that is ok, you do not have to. I just don't understand why you would waiste your time posting on a board that is for fans of the company and the product. I think you should stop trying to stir the pot here and use your time for something productive.

Look, everyone wants AGD to do well. But they aren't doing anything for themselves, so what do you want us to do?

You want to know how AGD can expand again? They've got to market themselves better, especially to the scenario/woods market.

Oh, and I'm not going to have a PM conversation with you so you can go on a rant about how speedball is a bunch of no-talent losers running around with no tactics or planning or organization. I can't even begin to explain to you how much planning, communication, tactics, coordination and organization it takes to create a successful speedball team. The tactics are different yes, but they are still there. Sorry, but you're just wrong. And speedball wasn't created for TV, it was created as a more mainstream competitive format for paintball. The thing that's hurting paintball are people like you that make idiotic blanket statements and can't realize that both formats are PAINTBALL. So back the hell off when it's obvious you don't know anything about speedball. And get off your high horse too, no one cares for it.

[RogueFactor]

Oh, and I'm not going to have a PM conversation with you so you can go on a rant about how speedball is a bunch of no-talent losers running around with no tactics or planning or organization. I can't even begin to explain to you how much planning, communication, tactics, coordination and organization it takes to create a successful speedball team. The tactics are different yes, but they are still there. Sorry, but you're just wrong. And speedball wasn't created for TV, it was created as a more mainstream competitive format for paintball. The thing that's hurting paintball are people like you that make idiotic blanket statements and can't realize that both formats are PAINTBALL. So back the hell off when it's obvious you don't know anything about speedball. And get off your high horse too, no one cares for it.

I care for it. He isnt on a high horse, you are. Stevewar is ON POINT with his post.

Ive never cared for rabidchihauhau's SPIN tactics, but he has been around a long time. He also holds the first patent for a todays tournament style format of paintball. So his viewpoint, and the following quotes are pertinent to this conversation:


Paintball suffers from many ills, but one of the leading causes of its issues is the 'Marching Morons' problem.

(The Marching Morons is a great short story by CM Kornbluth and I've stolen its title for this theory)

Its also called the 'least common denominator' theory and it essentially boils down to this:

For ANY special interest to become economically successful, it MUST dumb itself down in order to appeal to a wider market. In paintball, this has taken the form of emphasizing technology over skill, or providing technological crutches for those who have little skill, and in making the requirements for 'entry' easier and easier.

Back when tournaments consisted of 15 player teams, getting a team together was a major hurdle. The skill set required at tournaments was high and less-able team organizers were naturally selected out of the mix. This selection process resulted in limiting the number of real teams at any one time to between 20 and 30.

What did the 'industry' do? It cut team size; those teams that could never find a 13th, 14th, 15th player now didn't have to worry about it, cause all they needed was 10. That wasn't enough, so they went to 7, then to 5 and finally to 3 (grandma and the grandkids can now enter a team into national tournaments...)

This dumbing down of team size (many more less-able teams can enter events, reducing overall competition levels and allowing less-able teams to win or place well) is compounded by statistical issues: a single elimination of a player on a 15 player team represents only 6.6% of that team's strength; 10% of a ten man team's, 14% of a 7 player's, 20% of a five players and 33% of a three player team's.

Now let's consider 'luck'. We all know that 'the breaks' contribute to the outcome of every single game; misfires, broken balls, bounces, ref calls, etc. If based only on the pecentage of a team's strength represented by a single player, we can see that ANY eliminations from 'luck' have a much greater impact on a team the smaller the team size is.

While that's a pretty obvious fact, what isn't so obvious is what it really means: luck - not skill - plays a far larger role (more than two times as much) in today's tournaments than it used to...

So yes, things did use to be much better when it comes to skill. No surprise - even the illiterate can get patents these days.....

I will post more from rabidchihauhau, so the point is made clear...

[RogueFactor]

Another one for ya warbeak2099...


Paintball's learning curve is never-ending; there is ALWAYS a new way to look at things, a new 'trick', a different way.

With that said: back in the day, a GOOD woodsball team wasn't 'good' until they had at least two seasons under their belt.

Speedball/airball was just something you did to get a couple of quick games in, waste some paint and do a little running around.

The woodsball skill set is competely transferable to airball fields.

The airball skillset is not transferable to woodsball

Without exception, every single top present day tournament team has a coach, a leader or an owner who was a top woodsball player. In my opinion, that fact alone lays to rest the question of which is 'harder', which requires more skill - its woodsball and it always will be.

Woods ball encouraged thinking on your feet; you needed to know distances at a glance, you needed to have an intimate knowledge of all different kinds of terrain and how they 'played'. You needed to know psychology. You needed to be able to shoot (as in AIM), you also needed other shooting skills (snap shoot, rapid fire, blind shooting); you needed to be able to run, dive, crawl, crouch, duck walk, slither, climb. You needed to be able to hide - you needed to be able to make a team-sized ruckus.

Woods skills, logistics, timing, shooting skills, movement skills, concealment skills, psychology, gamesmanship, analytical skills, dead reckoning, etc, were all required to be a good player.

On the airball field you (used to) need a fast finger and fast legs - and that's about it.

The better players and teams (all legacies of woodsball) apply field reading, psychology, timing and all the rest TO the airball game, which is why they are constantly on top.

You'll NEVER master this game (no one can) and you'll never get good if all you know how to do is spin around, pull the trigger while running, slide behind a balloon and then fire into a shooting lane.

[warbeak2099]

Oh I'm sorry I'll bow down now before the great Rogue. Obviously I was wrong and speedball is his horrible monster and it doesn't require any skill. There's no planning or organization in it nor is there any strategy involved. It's just a bunch of yahoos running around spraying out 30bps.

Thanks for correcting me Rogue






:dodgy:

[RogueFactor]

Oh I'm sorry I'll bow down now before the great Rogue. Obviously I was wrong and speedball is his horrible monster and it doesn't require any skill. There's no planning or organization in it nor is there any strategy involved. It's just a bunch of yahoos running around spraying out 30bps.

Thanks for correcting me Rogue

:dodgy:

Steve has been in paintball since before you were born. You should bow down. Is that your foot? ;)

BOHICA!

[warbeak2099]

Steve has been in paintball since before you were born. You should bow down. Is that your foot? ;)

BOHICA!

That doesn't make it right when he makes such an idiotic statement. Yes, speedball and woodsball both involve different methods, but you have to use strategy and tactics in both. It's ignorant to say that speedball is not strategic. Like I said before, it involved coordination, strategy, planning, communication, etc. I don't care how long you've been playing, when you make a stupid comment, it's still a stupid comment.

[kenndogg]

Fanboys are what ruin AGD. AGD should of never tried and please the handful of fanboys here on the forums. AGD could of put out a golden piece of crap and the fanboys would still be eating it up. Look at the z grip and warp feed, both were garbage. But guess what fanboys all raved about. They never sold well and in the end that hurt them in the long run. Of course the zombies will never admit it and just use the excuse of "these products were just ahead of their time."
You got the same zombies that trash 3rd party manufacturer just b/c its not AGD or rogue, or tuna. Just browse the G-Force and xmagterror threads and you'll see.

[warbeak2099]

Fanboys are what ruin AGD. AGD should of never tried and please the handful of fanboys here on the forums. AGD could of put out a golden piece of crap and the fanboys would still be eating it up. Look at the z grip and warp feed, both were garbage. But guess what fanboys all raved about. They never sold well and in the end that hurt them in the long run. Of course the zombies will never admit it and just use the excuse of "these products were just ahead of their time."
You got the same zombies that trash 3rd party manufacturer just b/c its not AGD or rogue, or tuna. Just browse the G-Force and xmagterror threads and you'll see.

1. The warpfeed was actually a pretty cool product and people other than mag shooters used it.
2. The Z-grip did give rise to more comfortable styles of gripframes like the Y-frame for mags, and 90* and hybrid frames for other guns.
3. We treated G-force poorly because the guy made an announcement without any kind of proof or pictures. He was unprofessional at best.

I agree that fanboys are stupid, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

[RogueFactor]

That doesn't make it right when he makes such an idiotic statement.

His vastly greater knowledge and experience lends more weight to his statements than yours.

You can call him an idiot if you want, it only makes you look like more of one.


I don't care how long you've been playing, when you make a stupid comment, it's still a stupid comment.

I know, I know. Youre young, and know everything. We were all there at one time.

Stupid comments are those made without the knowledge and experience needed to make them. I already know which of you 2 that is :D

BOHICA!

[pepple84]

who wants to be the bigger man and move this off topic (but informative and fun) postings to another thread

there have been some very key points made in here and i'd like to throw in my 2 cents. AGD is a manufacturer of a product, people like rogue are the re-sellers. we need more people like that to distribute the products. AGD can create a new and innovative marketing strategy to push their products but unless they have dealers to get their products out in the market their advertisements won't help.

i understand there is a lot more to this problem (if you want to call that) but personally i take pride in the marker i use. i think we should all demonstrate that on the field and our products will sell themselves.

[/end rant]

[stevewar]

That doesn't make it right when he makes such an idiotic statement. Yes, speedball and woodsball both involve different methods, but you have to use strategy and tactics in both. It's ignorant to say that speedball is not strategic. Like I said before, it involved coordination, strategy, planning, communication, etc. I don't care how long you've been playing, when you make a stupid comment, it's still a stupid comment.


By the way, I never said that there were no tactics or strategies involved. I said they were far more simplistic. And don't presume that I've never played because I've probably played more than speedball than you. I gave the example "give 1 player on 1 team 2 paint grenades," and asked a simple question which you still have not answered so I will do it for you. The answer is, the team with the grenades will win every time, so it completely ruins the game. Let's go down your llist of points.

1. Speedball requires coordination - Yes it does. It requires coverage of flanks, lanes, and angles in order for any forward progress to be made.

2. Strategy and planning - You can talk to me about teams who plan their strategy all you want, but the bottom line is that it boils down to which barrier does your sprinters rush for, and who sits back and plays long ball. Everything after that is a mish mash of ad libbing and communications. You don't figure out fall back points, pinch points. You don't organize wedges and send out flankers. There just aren't enough people

3. Communications - Speedball requires constant communication, no doubt about that. However, you can just yell to your entire team. It doesn't require and stealth or surprise. The other team can hear you, so they know exactly what you are doing.

With the hope of ending this discussion I will concede that speedball takes talent and practice in order to be proficient. I just don't think it's a good way to introduce new players and thus new AGD customers to paintball

[Ninjeff]

i dont know why you guys always have to fight about speedball/woodsball. They are completely different.


Its like comparing NASCAR to Rally Racing.

Yea, sure, you need to know how to drive a car for both, but in the end its two totally different beasts.

[custar]

Steve, what are the chances of AGD making it down to OK D-Day in June of '08? There are likely to be 10,000 + attendees. That includes vendors, families, etc., but it is still a lot of PB people at the same place at the same time. There are a lot of players there who don't know squat about AGD but are willing to buy markers for good deals. PM or e-mail me if I can help out with details. Just thinking as I type, June '08 would be far enough off to have AK47 and M4-like markers ready to go, at least non-electro versions. I realize OK D-Day's WWII theme isn't perfect for AK47 and M4 models, but it does have a lot of media exposure (relatively speaking for a PB event). I know a relatively inexpensive way to get one on the stage for the awards ceremony, and I have some ideas on how to make sure they are seen in other venues.

custar

[stevewar]

Steve, what are the chances of AGD making it down to OK D-Day in June of '08? There are likely to be 10,000 + attendees. That includes vendors, families, etc., but it is still a lot of PB people at the same place at the same time. There are a lot of players there who don't know squat about AGD but are willing to buy markers for good deals. PM or e-mail me if I can help out with details. Just thinking as I type, June '08 would be far enough off to have AK47 and M4-like markers ready to go, at least non-electro versions. I realize OK D-Day's WWII theme isn't perfect for AK47 and M4 models, but it does have a lot of media exposure (relatively speaking for a PB event). I know a relatively inexpensive way to get one on the stage for the awards ceremony, and I have some ideas on how to make sure they are seen in other venues.

custar


I suppose the first thing we'd need to do is PM AGD and company and get their permission. It would be cool if we had a couple of guns in an unopened box so people can see the packaging, and then have a huge array of all the customizations that are commercially availalbe and that AO'ers make. I'll think more about this before we hit up AGD directly

[nathanjones008]

Yes - OLD OLD prices. Set how many years ago? Many before I started working there, and I've been here 7 years now.

We didn't raise prices for a long time - but all our suppliers DID. And *when* we replenish inventory (we do), we have to pay the higher prices. Figure the math.

Marcia
AGD-USA


thanks for the clarification! :)

[nathanjones008]

Is it possible to get a new supplier that will cost a lil less $$? :wow:

[AGD-OfficeGal]

Whups - I think I've only worked for AGD for six years, not seven. Not that it makes a difference. ;)

Marcia
AGD-USA

[BigEvil]

When Marcia speaks, you all better listen :dance:

[Lomarandil]

I wonder if we could do an Automags Online booth at OKDDAY, even if not a AGD booth proper.. still provide the same products (with pnuemags, epmags, etc?), same services...

I'd be up for helping out.
Lo

[RogueFactor]

Is it possible to get a new supplier that will cost a lil less $$? :wow:

No. If a more inexpensive supplier could be found, it would be.

Welcome to 2007, and 2007 Made in the USA prices.

[Beemer]

No. If a more inexpensive supplier could be found, it would be.

Made in the USA.

Ahh but it could be but then it wouldnt say "Made In The USA". AGD is on the the short list there eh. :argh:

[Ninjeff]

It would be cool if we had something that logged all the crazy customized examples of mags. I may start compiling a list.........

[Lenny]

Sorry, I didn't mean ROF but to lighen up the internals a bit to move a tad faster so you can bring down the input pressure and get better gas consumption. Less weight takes less air to move.
Are you serious? The Lvl. 10 bolt only weighs 1oz. AND it's Stainless Steel. You get lightweight AND durability right there.

If you want better gas milage from your Automag, use the lightest return spring and set the gun up to run off of that.