New Forum - Open Source Paintball Marker

[RobAGD]

OK guys, you all asked for it, so here it is :)

Now, there are some rules here.

No Attacking People
No Flaming
No General Stupid Crap

Threads in this forum are subject to deletion /editing / closing at any time for any reason by the staff.

Don't stir up a stink and have some fun building a gun.

-Robert

[stircrazzzy]

I've had this idea for a while. If people are serious about doing something like this, why not make a completely modular gun? Hear me out:

Why not have a gun that can completely change class with such little modification that it can be done halfway through gameday, with as few tools as necessary. For example:

I'm using gun x in the morning. I have it set up to be centerfeed, electronic trigger frame, closed bolt pneumatics, etc etc. In the early afternoon, I decide to put my pneumatic trigger frame on there (think pneumag trigger for a closed bolt gun), and for the next game I put just a plain jane trigger (one that trips the sear manually) as well as taking the front pneus off and putting on a pump. For night play, I swap out my vertically mounted HPR and put a 12gram adapter on there, and I remove the centerfeed for a springfeed.

All these parts could be modular and easily swappable. Also, the feed could be left, right, center, powerfeed, stock feed, etc...all you would need is the part of the body that bolts on which includes the feed neck assembly.

If everything about the gun is streamlined to a degree, and things are designed in "kits" or "assemblies" as opposed to one-off mods, people could do amazing things with their guns and rarely play the same game twice.

[y0da900]

The modular concept has been discussed, when you are in the main subforum list for this, hit the little arrow that says "from the" "last month" and change it to "the beginning".

There seems to have been a steep drop off in people interested in it, I think because most of the interest came from a very small group of people, the bulk of which had a software background, only one person with a lot of thought about the legal aspects, and very few people who could or are willing to give designs to a group such as this.

[questionful]

The thing that's holding us back is that everyone wants to keep their IP. If people would just release it (what else would they do with it anyway, realistically?), we (I don't know who that is) could start discussing the next step, which i guess would be money.

[y0da900]

I don't mind releasing things I've been working on to the public, I just want reassurance that if I did it remained public. The patent system is broken, people have successfully been patenting things that were public domain for years, they wouldn't stand up in court, but court might still be needed.

[vf-xx]

I know this is ressurecting an older thread, but would creative common's be of any value here?

I listen to a bunch of podcasts that are released that way, and I don't know if that would be useful, or even transferrable to a project such as this.

[chafnerjr]

Rather than jumping in with my Open Source (linux based) views... I only want to pose the following question...


Would not pump milling one of the new 2009 PTP micromag give you what your looking for? Check it out

*Variable angle breech
*Ability to change from electronic, pneumatic, mechanical frames (depending on frame)
*If the unit is milled to "pump" the assoc. pump parts can simply be removed and the normal lvl10 spring replaced. This would return the marker to semi-auto firing sequence.

The only thing that might need any more work is the spring feed replacement for the feedneck. I'm sure that could be figured out here pretty easily.

I guess that the automag is pretty much already the open source paintball marker from which you're mentioning... the only things your stuck with is the valve (air-hog, everyone has to admit it) and blow forward design (which I like) :cheers:

I just feel like we're all staring at the answer. Let me know what I'm missing.

[chafnerjr]

Did this post totally die or what?

[vf-xx]

Did this post totally die or what?

Well it was kinda dead when I resurrected it.

[unived micindev]

I'm not native english, so please, excuse few mistakes.

I was thinking about this topic for a few years and I have few ideas too:

Community here on AO have alot talented people with engineering and machining background, I believe, that there is alot of talented designers as well.

If AGD would provide blueprints or CAD models of bodies, rails and frame(s), while AGD will sell/produce only valves, it will be alot easier for community to build decent virtual catalogue, something like Turbosquid (http://www.turbosquid.com/3d). Imagine something like online configurator in the future.

I believe that ability to design own marker will be interesting also for creative people from different industries - I mean people, who doesn't have automag or any paintball marker, they just download 3d model of am/mm rail and ule combo and start to create new designs without hassle. Imagine design contest here on AO, winning design going to small production...Or design contest on Designboom (http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat/9/view/14022/designboom-competitions.html) in the future

I also believe that virtual catalogue can be oportunity for individuals and companies with proper technology to machine rails, bodies and frames on demand.

Marketing:
AGD will have franchise fee from component sold thru "virtual catalogue", designer his royalties etc...

So, what do you think guys?

[Frizzle Fry]

I made a backblock and frontblock for an Autococker for just this purpose (100% by hand) about a year ago, as SaintNoir might remember.

I know it's not open source per say, but my goal was a marker that by the flip of a switch (actually, two) you could play pump or semi effectively. Not only does it increase the play potential, but it allows for compensation when you have an issue with your external pneumatics and allows you to manually cycle effectively in game. I was trying to figure out how to reverse the valve system but gave up on the entire design because it was time consuming and nobody is buying 'cockers.

[rampantsanity]

let me open it up again.

i'm going to design a drop in magfed design for the Automag engine.


** no Automags will be harmed in the making of this marker. **

who currently owns the engine design?

[punisher068]

Don't know if this is the right spot for this or not...
My teammate and I have made 3 working prototypes of First Strike magfed Automags using DYE DAM mags
Can't say that they weren't "harmed" as it took alot of rail,body and sear/gripframe mods
The kicker is I'm using a Cocker adapter for the breech and barrel so I can(eventually) use a FS specific rifled barrel,the adapters are very hard to come by.So far the testing has gone well with a few minor kinks
I'd like to get into a full construction build using a machined body and 3D printed magwell so I could eliminate the need for a Cocker adapter and DAM Magwell.If the newer version of Zeta mags are improved I'd prefer to use them instead.I've got some pretty decent preliminary designs for this drawn up using dimensions from our prototypes
Does anyone see any conflict with patent issues of doing small runs of these?Any machinist interested in a possible co-build if it's viable and legal?

[bbotts77]

Don't know if this is the right spot for this or not...
My teammate and I have made 3 working prototypes of First Strike magfed Automags using DYE DAM mags
Can't say that they weren't "harmed" as it took alot of rail,body and sear/gripframe mods
The kicker is I'm using a Cocker adapter for the breech and barrel so I can(eventually) use a FS specific rifled barrel,the adapters are very hard to come by.So far the testing has gone well with a few minor kinks
I'd like to get into a full construction build using a machined body and 3D printed magwell so I could eliminate the need for a Cocker adapter and DAM Magwell.If the newer version of Zeta mags are improved I'd prefer to use them instead.I've got some pretty decent preliminary designs for this drawn up using dimensions from our prototypes
Does anyone see any conflict with patent issues of doing small runs of these?Any machinist interested in a possible co-build if it's viable and legal?
Awesome. I've been looking at this kind of thing lately, too. I've got to finish some of my other projects first, though. The way I see it, there's really no way to do it with existing parts and make it still look good. It's best to design a new marker around the x-valve.

I don't know anything about patents. you may want to post up in the "Paintball Talk" forum. It'll get more attention there.

[punisher068]

Yeah they're a little fugly as most of my homebuilds are.Considering most of my work is with a Dremmel and drillpress it's not surprizing.I've tried a few different bolts,the level 10 seems to clip the FS round fins.Consider that I got it as a used"Hawaii Mag" rental and I haven't tuned the bolt fully on another"stock" Mag.Trying to use the most basic parts for starters anyway to make it cost effective.Target cost would be $750-1000 complete
I'm pretty disappointed with production magfed markers,either they're poor quality,outdated firing systems,overpriced,unreliable, or all the above,CCM being the exception,their quality is worth the cost,I've seen one in action at a scenario and was VERY impressed
I've also got a 25 round FS drum prototype for my Hammer 7 I'd love to incorporate into it eventually
Thanks to MCB member syco for giving me a few helpful hints also

[Syko89]

Thanks to MCB member syco for giving me a few helpful hints also

I think you mean me. Np you do some interesting home brew stuff and we where working on the same idea just from different direction.

[punisher068]

Yes I did,thanks again.Shooting FS at a sheet was a simple yet brilliant idea,saved me alot of $
Knowing that your Mag could shoot FS gave me incentive to continue
Should have figured you'd be here also

[R.O.A.C.H.]

I have been mulling over the idea of dropping automag parts (barrel/valve/sear assembly) and the guts to a hyperframe into a clam-shell style (two pieces assembled together) 3D printed body designed for bullpup. I have the idea to incorporate a internal hopper system using HALO and warpfeed parts in the rear body stock.

[knownothingmags]

I have been mulling over the idea of dropping automag parts (barrel/valve/sear assembly) and the guts to a hyperframe into a clam-shell style (two pieces assembled together) 3D printed body designed for bullpup. I have the idea to incorporate a internal hopper system using HALO and warpfeed parts in the rear body stock.

If you 3D print the shell make sure you are using a tough enough/ strong enough material, ABS & PLA types of materials may not work depending on your design, may have potential to cause serious harm if it cant contain the valve.

I have done it, you just want to be carefull

[Spider-TW]

If you 3D print the shell make sure you are using a tough enough/ strong enough material, ABS & PLA types of materials may not work depending on your design, may have potential to cause serious harm if it cant contain the valve.

I have done it, you just want to be carefull


A stainless insert "U", with the "body washer" hole in the bottom could hold the valve and reinforce the shell. Not printable, but there might be something suitable in marine hardware.

Where does the ROACH design fall, relative to the Empire Dfender?

[knownothingmags]

A stainless insert "U", with the "body washer" hole in the bottom could hold the valve and reinforce the shell. Not printable, but there might be something suitable in marine hardware.


yeah very true.

[zondo]

I have been mulling over the idea of dropping automag parts (barrel/valve/sear assembly) and the guts to a hyperframe into a clam-shell style (two pieces assembled together) 3D printed body designed for bullpup. I have the idea to incorporate a internal hopper system using HALO and warpfeed parts in the rear body stock.


my $.02...

I hope that you make the refill port for the hopper to one side or the other and not straight on the top. I feel that one of the points of a warpfeed-like design is to not need to switch hands, just reposition the butt on your body and snap shoot

That's where the Defender lost me as a fan, because it didn't shorten the setup, IMO.

Also, consider changing the angle of the grip to something other that 45. The tighter the set up, the further forward the angle of the grip to be comfortable.