Entity Structure

[rabidchihauhau]

In this thread we will begin to hone in on exactly what we all want to create, so far as the corporate entity is concerned.

Do we want:

A patent pool?

A standards company?

A 'start from scratch 'open source' company?

an IP acquisitions firm?

A design club?

[y0da900]

In this thread we will begin to hone in on exactly what we all want to create, so far as the corporate entity is concerned.

Do we want:

A patent pool?

A standards company?

A 'start from scratch 'open source' company?

an IP acquisitions firm?

A design club?


I vote for the entirety. Currently, patenting a design is the best way to protect your IP and keep from being restricted from your own designs in the future. Gathering those useful patents for use and distribution by the group would be great. I think that a standards organization is long overdue for the industry. Most major industries and or sports leagues have governing standards that are enforced much more strictly than ours, and it really should be.

My ideas for a while have been geared mostly towards the "open source" licensing aspect. Alone, it really doesn't offer any sustainability. But what it does, is allow jumping points for designs that given the proper wording in the original open source license, could lead to future protectable IP. It also garners interest in the group from the part time tinkerer who just has these little ideas once in a while that are great ideas, but by themselves, might not warrant the expense of a patent and the costs associated with protecting it. With these individuals now able to show their ideas to the world risk free, and with potential financial incentives tied in, I think we might see a lot more of those tucked away designs start to sprout. How many times have we heard about cool designs, both from individuals and from industry, that just didn't make it for any number of reasons (inability to protect, not a fast enough design, questionable patentability but definitely not infringing on others, not mass producable enough, etc...). With this, companies have the potential to see rewards by freely giving these ideas to the group for issuance under an "open source" license. While they will not see immediate financial rewards for that IP, what they are doing is using an otherwise worthless design (how much money does it make you sitting in CAD files and reports on a computer?), and trading it for both membership in the group and a potentially very rewarding business alliance. If the group ends up being successful, it could become incredibly desirable to be able to advertise that your product complys with certain standards from the organization.

The design club sort of falls into the rest of it. It gives tinkerers and inventors a known entity to invest their designs in, and a whole slew of contacts with the same interests that they can share information and tips with.

[rabidchihauhau]

So are you essentially leaning towards a "contributory membership" and/or "buy-in" membership deal?

Is it a one-time thing? As in, I contribute one idea that everyone else agrees is 'worth' membership and then I'm in for life?

(What happens to the later ideas I have on the same thing - improvements - that I decide not to share?)

What happens if I contribute a concept that I believe is worth IP protection, but that the group isn't budgeted for - or disagrees with my assessment?

If every member gets membership for idea contribution - where does the money to fund anything come from?

(Do we sell two levels of membership? Paying? Contributory?. Do we make up cool t-shirts and sell them?)

[y0da900]

So are you essentially leaning towards a "contributory membership" and/or "buy-in" membership deal?

Is it a one-time thing? As in, I contribute one idea that everyone else agrees is 'worth' membership and then I'm in for life?

(What happens to the later ideas I have on the same thing - improvements - that I decide not to share?)

What happens if I contribute a concept that I believe is worth IP protection, but that the group isn't budgeted for - or disagrees with my assessment?

If every member gets membership for idea contribution - where does the money to fund anything come from?

(Do we sell two levels of membership? Paying? Contributory?. Do we make up cool t-shirts and sell them?)


I think that if we did one contribution and you are in for life that it might invite people to toss in a single idea, then contribute nothing else ever and continue to legally leech the IP that the group provides. The tough part will be coming up with an objective measure of worth for the ideas contributed.

We might want to consider idea contribution as partial payment for membership, or possibly entry to the organization with monetary dues after that.

[LK-13]

how far along in the design process does an idea need to be for consideration?
i have several design ideas, that are functional in nature as opposed to cosmetic or ergonomic, that are in different stages of completion.
one has a working prototype, others have detailed drawings.
one is stalled at the conceptual stage because my current knowledge of the necessary
pneumatics/mechanics/electronics is either out dated or absent altogether.
(that's what happens when you are in a nasty traffic accident, the mind just isn't the same afterward)
i have everything from feed systems to a bolt-less marker swimming around inside my head waiting to become reality.
I've even got an idea for making more spherical PAINTBALLS with no seams! (although it might be cost prohibitive)
but most of the devices are missing some fine detailing or engineering.

do i have enough to contribute?

at what level does a persons idea become something the group can get behind and put more brains on the job?

the more brains you have focused on a task the quicker it goes from idea to working device.

[rabidchihauhau]

I agree on the leeching part.

The way I see it, membership will have to be separate from contribution.

Ahh, the objective measure of worth.

Three phases -

is it a valid concept that the group is interested in?

If yes

then how much is it potentially worth/how much will it cost?

If break-even or better then

How/when does it go to market?

Valid concept and interest are relatively straight-forward.

Is the concept physically possible? (no anti-gravity patents - for now)
Is the concept in line with the design goals of the group (now or future. the only complicating factor here is - even if its not directly related to the design goals, is it technology that ought to be acquired in order to protect the design goals)

Potential worth and cost have to be fairly sophisticated guesses. This will require the ability to judge its patentability, its value in the market place, how difficult/complicated a patent path it will be; solid estimates of production costs, market analysis and price-point issues, manufacturing time-frames, ROI and etc.

And finally how/when; is this a product with general appeal or specialty appeal. Is is made for the group or sold outside. Given the design goals, when is it needed? What else is in production.

[rabidchihauhau]

how far along in the design process does an idea need to be for consideration?.

We're not far enough along yet to be discussing someone's specific designs. We haven't created this thing yet, not put whatever legal/structural things in place.

As far as getting to work on designs goes, please be patient.

Right now the completeness is not an issue. Once we get around to actually discussing what it is we'll be working on we'll start looking at ideas.

[FOG]

Im very interested in this THREAD as i have prototypes made.But not sure how to protect the ideas an products. Im told if you dont have some thousands of dollars to take infringers to court with you may as well NOT have a patent.

[questionful]

Here's what I was thinking. I haven't thought about it much, but I figured I'd throw something in.

Anyone can join the group by signing a sort of NDA that disables them from releasing or doing anything with anything discussed by the group. If someone wants to do this (release something discussed by group), the whole group has to vote (what kind of vote?). This way, as long as the contract/agreement/w/e is well-written, you can have random joe's join the group and not risk getting shat by an a-hole. A big issue would be, what if someone wants to reclaim rights to something submitted to the group? What if they want to reclaim rights after the group has improved the idea? How much will people be discouraged from contributing to the group if once they contribute an idea they lose rights for ever? I suppose if the group ends up making something out of the idea, the original contributor of the idea would get some money?

[rabidchihauhau]

the first problem I see with that is that the group - at least initially - lacks the ability to financially enforce its agreements. Someone with resources could join, steal and then ignore.

I think one way to do it is, once you are a member, you assign your rights to anything you work on back to the group; the group confers permission to everyon in it to use & etc its collective holdings - so, what you get is access to everyone else's designs in exchange for giving up ownership in yours.

Of course, that doesn't handle issues of members who don't contribute anything, or contribute things that are "not worthwhile", and it still begs the question of things I'm working on for the group as separate from other things I'm working on. Derivative works will be an issue...

[questionful]

I think no matter what system we use, it will be possible for someone to join and steal ideas.

[Spitlebug]

Stealing is the nature of the industry. Unfortunately for us, I don't think any of us are well off and probably couldn't fight litigation like a company can. That's not to discourage though. If you guys feel like an idea is good enough to patent and someone comes up with the money for prior art searches, disclosures and the rest of the whole song and dance then by all means pursue it to the ends of the earth.

I do believe that the originator should be named in the application though and the assignee(s) could be public domain.