sear not resetting?

[mr doo doo]

so, i am using an x-valve with ULT and Level 10 bolt. i was using lukes sear mod, and when i got to around 10-15 shots, my sear wouldnt reset. with the normal sear position, if was a bit better, but it would still persist. i would have to release air and re-air up my gun/valve for the sear to reset.

my tank, PMI 48/3000, is full to 3000psi, 850 psi output, and macroline is what i am using.

[Coralis]

sounds like your level 10 carrier might be to tight, try retuning .

[flyingpootang]

sounds like your level 10 carrier might be to tight retuning .

Remove 1 L10 shim at a time until it resets reliably. If you run out of shims move to the next loosest L10 carrier and 2 shims and start all over again.

[mr doo doo]

is it really my level 10 bolt? i forgot to add that when i swap my ULT for a regular RT on/off, my gun works flawlessly.

[Zone Drifter]

Come to think of it, I've had this problem as well, and i thought it was only the lvl 10, HOWEVER... i was using my pro classic yesterday, and it did the same thing! It locked up, and i could push the bolt back and hear it click, sounding like it wasnt resetting as well.

This isnt just a lvl 10 problem, because my pro classic is also having the same problem and it has a lvl 7 bolt. What i did with my classic valve, is put more oil in the on/off assy, and that seemed to work. I also put a very light coat on the sear where the bolt makes contact just to lessen the friction a bit. That seemed to fix my classic valve, it shoots consistently now. I have not been able to completely fix my x valve though, still trying to figure that out. It could be my on/off, but i dont know yet.

[mr doo doo]

hum.... alright, ill try that soon. dad's out back and he hates it when i make noise since the elderly look at me like a maniac :argh:

i didnt think it wound be my bolt and such since when i bought it, the seller told me it was tuned by tunaman himself, so, that pretty much explains it. but ill give the oil a try. Just in the on/ff assembly, or should i just do the oil-in-the-ASA method?

[robnix]

hum.... alright, ill try that soon. dad's out back and he hates it when i make noise since the elderly look at me like a maniac :argh:

i didnt think it wound be my bolt and such since when i bought it, the seller told me it was tuned by tunaman himself, so, that pretty much explains it. but ill give the oil a try. Just in the on/ff assembly, or should i just do the oil-in-the-ASA method?

Make sure you're not overtighten the frame screw and the valve bolt as well as the oil.

[mr doo doo]

thanks for the tip. loosened the field strip screw and the frame screw. now all i need to do is try the oil part.

[robnix]

thanks for the tip. loosened the field strip screw and the frame screw. now all i need to do is try the oil part.

Quarter turn past hand tightened is all you need.

[luke]

i was using lukes sear mod, and when i got to around 10-15 shots, my sear wouldnt reset. with the normal sear position, if was a bit better, but it would still persist. i would have to release air and re-air up my gun/valve for the sear to reset.

my tank, PMI 48/3000, is full to 3000psi, 850 psi output, and macroline is what i am using.

What exactly do you mean?

Does it not reset meaning air is leaking down the barrel?

Or, it will not fire the next shot?

I assume it just won't reset the on/off by the description (meaning the marker won't fire). My guess is that your set up is not adjusted properly. If you got the set screws in the trigger you are not leaving enough "extra" space in the trigger for the on/off to operate properly.

With the marker aired up you should have a small gap between the end of the trigger rod and the back of your trigger. That is the top screw adjustment.

For the lower screw it should be adjusted until it "just" stops firing the marker. THEN back it out about a 1/2 a turn. If it continues to miss fire back it out a little at a time until it operates properly.

If you don't have the trigger stops you may need to adjust the trigger rod OUT some for the same reason as you would adjust the lower set screw. The same principles apply to adjusting the trigger rod as adjusting the stops in your trigger. You must have extra play in the trigger for the on/off to operate properly.

[mr doo doo]

ok, so i tested until i ran out of air, and unfortunately, its not fixed.

i fully oiled the on/off assembly, dropped a couple drops in the power tub, and oiled the parts of the sear that would cause friction. then, i switched back to the sear mod position. went to go try everything out, and as i said before, my sear would reset with less pulls than with the regular sear position. BUT, i have come to the conclusion that its a bolt stick, meaning my carrier is too tight? shims? i cant try anything out since, at the moment, i dont have air... :(

EDIT: my carrier is the one with 4 dots on the upper half, with 2 shims.

[chill will]

It could be that your valve spring has worn out and needs tobe replaced.

What do you think guys?

[robnix]

It could be that your valve spring has worn out and needs tobe replaced.

What do you think guys?

I highly doubt it's the age of the spring. That valve came from me and only had about two cases put through it before I sold it to MDD with no sticking issues.

[mr doo doo]

im going to conclude that its the weather? when i used the valve for the first time, it was sort of cold, like around 50-60 degrees F, and sprinkled on/off. is this a worthy guess?

[luke]

Have you considered what I said? A sear mod will cause a malfunction if adjusted incorrectly.


i would have to release air and re-air up my gun/valve for the sear to reset.

This sounds like the on/off not the bolt.

[Madmarx]

When mine wasn't working it was Exactly what luke is saying.
I had to shorten (turn in) the trigger rod.
Works great now.

[mr doo doo]

i did take it into consideration, but for like a second luke. should i screw in the rod more, or unscrew it more? it was sort of hard to screw/unscrew it, thats why.

[Madmarx]

i did take it into consideration, but for like a second luke. should i screw in the rod more, or unscrew it more? it was sort of hard to screw/unscrew it, thats why.

Yeah they're tough to get moving at first.
You want to screw it in (righty tighty) :rolleyes: to make a little more room between it and the trigger.

[mr doo doo]

cool, thanks! ill give it a try and soon try it with the valve when i get air.

[luke]

i did take it into consideration, but for like a second luke. should i screw in the rod more, or unscrew it more? it was sort of hard to screw/unscrew it, thats why.

I can not answer that without having the marker in my hands. You really need to look closely at the marker to figure out the problem.

If you pull the trigger the first time (after the marker is aired up) and it doesn't fire I would "guess" (because I can't see for myself) that the rod is too short (or, your stops are set incorrectly, I don't think you stated if you were running them or not). If it fires once and doesn't reset I would guess that is is too long.

Think of it this way, if the rod is too short it does not engage the on/off fully > i.e. the marker does not fire. It also feels like a "spongy" trigger".

If the rod is too long, it may fire once but not twice. That is because the on/off does not have room to reset for the next shot. The only way to reset it would be to bleed the air and turn back on. It is too long if the rod is touching the back of the trigger, there should be about 1/32" gap between the trigger and the end of the rod when it is aired up and firing properly.


I'll say it again, it is critical that the rod (or trigger stops) are set correctly. If there is NOT sufficient room for the on/off to operate correctly the marker will malfunction. This is a fine tune adjustment, you must take small steps to get it right. You may have to assemble and disassemble your marker a dozen times to get it right. Pay attention to the details. Regardless of weather or not this is the problem, it STILL must be adjusted properly. I have seen where my trigger mod caused the rod to be too short and it needed to be adjusted, that is to be expected in some cases. Which I think this is one of those times.

Reread my original post.

[Madmarx]

:cheers: Excellent job of describing the whole thing there Luke. :hail:

[mr doo doo]

yes, that was well said (and sort of makes me look like a :tard: ), but the only reason why im not updating really is because i have no access to air, and wont for awhile. luke, your thought will be the first i try out, but then again, i would need air.

but im pretty sure that its just too long, and im going to have to shorten it a bit. when i aired up my gun, it would shoot a shot right away...my assumption would be that its too long. Plus, after a few shots, it turns into "spongy trigger".

oh, no, im not using stops, just the bare trigger itself. either way, im going to try to lengthen and shorten the sear to see what happens. im just afraid ill get tired of unscrewing and re screwing the valve and such in :eek:

thanks luke

[luke]

and sort of makes me look like a :tard:

Sorry man, it was not my intention. But, since you brought up my name in this conversation I needed to make sure you understood the importance adjusting the trigger rod correctly in relation to the mod I did for you. ;)

[mr doo doo]

haha, its all good. and yea, i get where you are coming from, but dont get me wrong, your work is still grade A to me, all i just need is a little adjustment.

[mr doo doo]

is it just me or can i not screw/unscrew the rod of my sear? is there a certain way to do it?

[Zone Drifter]

I know what problem you are having, and It's hard to explain, but I'll try.

The trigger rod is not a problem, although improperly adjusted it can be. In this case it's not though. For me, when I begin shooting faster, the gun locks up. The bolt appears not to be seating fully, as in the sear is not catching it when it is pushed back by the spring. Also, i noticed that It's not the bolt, or the sear because i swapped the parts out with a fully functioning valve. Also, I used both the regular on/off and the ULT on/off with the same gun lockup results. I've also taken the valve apart many times, completely (although not the parts that are not supposed to be disassembled) and have not found one hint leaning towards something out of place. I've tried a little oil, and no real results.

This problem has baffled me to no end, and I'm about ready to see if i can send it in to agd for repairs. I know it's hard to assess a problem witout looking at it in person, so I apologise if my explanation is still short. I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one with this problem, and apperently mr doo doo is also having the same results as me.

[Mongoose]

Make sure you didnt overtighten the screw that holds the sear in place :)

[mr doo doo]

^^ its not that, im using a classic rail, so the sear is moving freely.

Zone Drifter, in conclusion, you havent found out what the problem was? maybe i need a new spring?

[Irish Deth]

This is bolt stick on a lvl X. Go to a larger carrier without shims, add shims to tune.

[Zone Drifter]

Zone Drifter, in conclusion, you havent found out what the problem was? maybe i need a new spring? Heres what I did to get it working, but it in no way solved the problem, merely re-configured it.

I took my minimag valve with lvl 7, and the x-valve with the lvl 10. now, because my x-valve didn't come with any lvl 10 hardware (i acquired it used) I didnt have much of a choice in carrier adjustments, but i did have some and plenty of shims from my RT Pro's lvl 10 kit. The lvl 10 seemed fine, i mean it was working perfectly, yet I still had the lock up problem.

So heres what crazy old me did...

I took the lvl 7 off my minimag vlave and swapped it with my lvl 10 from the x-valve. So now i have a perfectly working minimag valve with a perfectly working lvl 10, and an x-valve with a lvl 7 bolt that has absolutely no firing problems whatsoever.

I use HPA regardless of the gun i choose to use, i don't even own a CO2 tank anymore, so that's no issue, and I have not had any bolt stick in either of the valves. So, in conclusion, you know how some people say they were born to be gay? Well i think my x-valve was born to be a classic valve... :rolleyes:

So yeah, didn't solve the problem, kinda... just, took a different approach.

EDIT: If you have any other valves, try swapping the parts, just remember there they originally go to...

[mr doo doo]

hahhahaha, ah, i see. want to keep it level 10 because i need that extra coolness :D

im not sure what is the next carrier size. currently i have the carrier with a dot.

[Zone Drifter]

hahhahaha, ah, i see. want to keep it level 10 because i need that extra coolness :D

im not sure what is the next carrier size. currently i have the carrier with a dot.
The carriers go up like this: No line, then dot. one line. one line and dot. 2 lines. 2 lines and dot... so on an so on. So a dot is like a half up from a line.

So if you say you are using the carrier with a dot, that means it's the 2nd smallest carrier. the smallest is the one with no lines or dots on them.

[luke]

I know what problem you are having, and It's hard to explain, but I'll try.

The trigger rod is not a problem, although improperly adjusted it can be. In this case it's not though. For me, when I begin shooting faster, the gun locks up. The bolt appears not to be seating fully, as in the sear is not catching it when it is pushed back by the spring. Also, i noticed that It's not the bolt, or the sear because i swapped the parts out with a fully functioning valve. Also, I used both the regular on/off and the ULT on/off with the same gun lockup results. I've also taken the valve apart many times, completely (although not the parts that are not supposed to be disassembled) and have not found one hint leaning towards something out of place. I've tried a little oil, and no real results.

This problem has baffled me to no end, and I'm about ready to see if i can send it in to agd for repairs. I know it's hard to assess a problem witout looking at it in person, so I apologise if my explanation is still short. I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one with this problem, and apperently mr doo doo is also having the same results as me.

I find it interesting that you "know it's not the trigger rod" but you can't tell him the problem.

mr doo doo, I still you suggest you follow my instructions before moving on.

[Zone Drifter]

I find it interesting that you "know it's not the trigger rod" but you can't tell him the problem.

mr doo doo, I still you suggest you follow my instructions before moving on.Well I'm not saying you're wrong, It could be that, but with me I've both used a stock trigger rod setup and one that I can adjust, and It didn't solve the problem. Although, I will continue to adjust mine to see if that does the trick, because I don't plan on keeping my valve parts switched.

Also, for a classic valve with a lvl 7, what would cause it to double fire? I seem to be making trouble for myself... 2 out of 3 valves I own are on the fritz, and the only one that's tuned perfectly (RT Pro) I can't use in a tournament...

So yeah Luke, you know alot more about these than I do, but all I have to give for advice is what I try on my own. =/

Edit: Yes, you are right, some trigger rods need to be adjusted byond that of stock setup. I re-adjusted mine some more and it seems to be working much better. I'll test it out this weekend on the field. Btw, thanks for the advice Luke. :)

[mr doo doo]

so it does work? cool.... but like i mentioned before, I CANT GET MY ROD TO SCREW/UNSCREW!!

i have removed the arm a few times to place it back into the regular position that its almost widening off the sear. but anyways, i dont know how to make it screw/unscrew easily!!?!?! :eek:

[Andrewliu6294]

use a set of pliers in one hand to hold the connecting piece. then take another set, clamp it on the rod, and twist. ;)

I least thats how i do it.

[luke]

I believe it has loc-tight on it. I've never had a problem adjusting them, I just use pliers. You can warm it up with a lighter, it dosent take much. ;)

[luke]

Well I'm not saying you're wrong, It could be that, but with me I've both used a stock trigger rod setup and one that I can adjust, and It didn't solve the problem.

The reason I said that is because I did a sear mod to the sear. I know that this sometimes requires that the rod be readjusted.


Although, I will continue to adjust mine to see if that does the trick,

This is a problem in itself.

Either it is adjusted correctly or not. There should not be any guess work. You need get that right THEN if you still have a problem you can move on to diagnose it.

You are correct there can be more that one problem, but if the sear rod is screwed up you'll have a hard time finding the other problems.

Since the sear arm WAS moved (I know because I did the work) it stands to reason that this is where he needs to start.



Also, for a classic valve with a lvl 7, what would cause it to double fire? I seem to be making trouble for myself... 2 out of 3 valves I own are on the fritz, and the only one that's tuned perfectly (RT Pro) I can't use in a tournament...

Well what is the common denominator? Are you using the same sear and changing out the valve? Perhaps the sear is wore out. These do need to be replace from time to time.



So yeah Luke, you know alot more about these than I do, but all I have to give for advice is what I try on my own. =/

My only problem is you said out right that the trigger rod adjustment was not the problem. Nobody on this board including myself knows for certain what the problem is. It is difficult to tech a marker when you can't see it for yourself. Because of what I do know about the situation first hand, I'm advising him to start here because of everything I have stated previously.


Really, this whole thing is getting blown out of proportion. All we need to do is start with a correctly adjusted trigger rod, it's not brain surgery.

[Zone Drifter]

Well what is the common denominator? Are you using the same sear and changing out the valve? Perhaps the sear is wore out. These do need to be replace from time to time.

Hmm... That might be the case with that other sear I kept adjusting. The doube firing though happens on my minimag/classic. I put a minimag body on it (it had an rt pro style body on it before) The only difference I can see between the bodies is the sear hole. On the rt body, it's smaller, slim fit for just the sear, but on the minimag one it has room for a pump rod. I don't want to mess up another sear, so I think I'll just leave the rt body on it.

And sorry about that, I spoke too soon before. Totally didn't see that you did the mod for him (even though he says it in the first post) x.x