How do I drill/tap for an LPR?

[rawbutter]

Well, my pneumag plans were coming along fine until I got to the part where I had to buy a drill/tap to mount my Tickler LPR. The problem is that none of the local stores carry what I need.

After doing some research, I think that I need a 1/8-27 NPT tap. (http://www.amazon.com/Pipe-Tap-Bulk-Pack-8-27/dp/B000I1NZLM) But.... I don't want to spend the $12 if I'm not buying the right thing.

So, can someone confirm/deny what I need to drill/tap for an LPR?

[robnix]

Well, my pneumag plans were coming along fine until I got to the part where I had to buy a drill/tap to mount my Tickler LPR. The problem is that none of the local stores carry what I need.

In fact, I'm not even sure what kind of tap I need. The highest thread-count tap I've been able to find is a 3/8-24... and that's not enough threads per inch. The Tickler has a higher thread count... 3/8-30 maybe?

So, if anyone can tell me what kind of tap I need to get, or (even better) provide a link where I can get one online, I would be very thankful.

If you don't have a drill press, I would HIGHLY recommend sending the part you need tapped to Luke over at http://www.lukescustoms.com. Fast, good pricing, and does quality work.

[rawbutter]

If you don't have a drill press, I would HIGHLY recommend sending the part you need tapped to Luke over at http://www.lukescustoms.com. Fast, good pricing, and does quality work.

I considered sending it to Luke, but I do have a drill press, and I've been practicing a lot to the point where I feel very confident to do it on my own. I just need to know what part to buy.

[cyberave68]

Its not to hard to do. Just make sure you use 3-4 dsifferent size bit to achive the right size hole. Going to big in size bits will cause it to stick when drilling and spinnout. The most important is to make sure you have the ASA sitting straight up. Use something called a "V" block. A peace of 2X4 with a "v" shaped cut into it. That will help you steady the asa and also help keep it from rolling around on you while you work. And yes a 1/8" - NTP tap is what you looking for. With this type of tap you dont want put it all the way thru the hole. The tap has a small tapper on it which is how they seal so well. If you go to deep you wont be able to set the seal and it will leak. If you dont go deep enuff you wont be able to screw it in that far... Its better to put it on and off a few times as not to go to far the first time...

Here is a pic of my "V" block and my ASA tap jig...


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m176/Cyberave68/DSC01542.jpg

[rawbutter]

And yes a 1/8" - NTP tap is what you looking for.

Thanks.

And that's a nice looking jig you got there. I'd steal the idea.... if I was drilling out an ASA. I have something else in mind, though. ;)

[BREAD_DA_PAINTER]

Its not to hard to do. Just make sure you use 3-4 dsifferent size bit to achive the right size hole. Going to big in size bits will cause it to stick when drilling and spinnout. The most important is to make sure you have the ASA sitting straight up. Use something called a "V" block. A peace of 2X4 with a "v" shaped cut into it. That will help you steady the asa and also help keep it from rolling around on you while you work. And yes a 1/8" - NTP tap is what you looking for. With this type of tap you dont want put it all the way thru the hole. The tap has a small tapper on it which is how they seal so well. If you go to deep you wont be able to set the seal and it will leak. If you dont go deep enuff you wont be able to screw it in that far... Its better to put it on and off a few times as not to go to far the first time...

Here is a pic of my "V" block and my ASA tap jig...


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m176/Cyberave68/DSC01542.jpg


we all dont have extra rails we can chop up so we get it right everytime.... great idea though... i got tired of messing mine up so i put it in the grip.. :ninja:

[Warwitch]

Good idea on that grooved jig. But to center the ASA all you really need to do is put a fitting in each side of it. No need to go around just mangling rails ;)

Edit: Doh :tard: didnt see you had it ever so securely fashioned in there.

[Pneumagger]

Well, you could send it to luke for the same amount of money it may cost you to get the R bit and npt tap. Or you could have some fun and do it yourself. Either way should be fine.

Also, I'm not sure where you live - but ANY Home Depot, Do-It-Best, Sears or other manly hardware store should carry "R" size drill bits and 1/8-27 NPT drill bits. Look in the drill bit section or possibly the piping/plumbing section.

[Spider-TW]

It's funny that mounting the LPR on a vert ASA is one of the most critical cuts on a pneumag. You can get away with a lot of hacking elsewhere.

No one wants their super-pneu to have a bent, uh, LPR. :spit_take

[rawbutter]

Also, I'm not sure where you live - but ANY Home Depot, Do-It-Best, Sears or other manly hardware store should carry "R" size drill bits and 1/8-27 NPT drill bits. Look in the drill bit section or possibly the piping/plumbing section.

Crap... I didn't think to look in the plumbing section. I was looking in hardware, where ALL the other drill taps are.

And FYI to everyone... I'm putting the LPR inside of my UMF. Or that's the plan, anyway. It's still in the mail, so I haven't seen it in person to make sure that it will work. From the pictures it looks like it will be a little tight (not in height, but in width... I think the grip mount holes are going to get in the way). So who knows. Maybe I will be tapping the ASA.

Not to change topics... but this is my thread. :D Has anyone ever put/seen an LPR inside of a UMF? I've seen them inside of Vert frames and even Intellis, but I haven't seen an LPR inside of a UMF.

[cyberave68]

we all dont have extra rails we can chop up so we get it right everytime.... great idea though... i got tired of messing mine up so i put it in the grip.. :ninja:
HAHA funny... I actually was ano stripping that rail when my little monster wanted to play. i forgot about it and it sat in the strip tank for 16 hours... :cry: So i didnt have any other use for it till i made the jig... :ninja:


Crap... I didn't think to look in the plumbing section. I was looking in hardware, where ALL the other drill taps are.
I have a site that you can get a kick arse 1/8" npt tap if you need it still. Let me know and i'll PM it to you...

Later,

[Pneumagger]

Crap... I didn't think to look in the plumbing section. I was looking in hardware, where ALL the other drill taps are.

And FYI to everyone... I'm putting the LPR inside of my UMF. Or that's the plan, anyway. It's still in the mail, so I haven't seen it in person to make sure that it will work. From the pictures it looks like it will be a little tight (not in height, but in width... I think the grip mount holes are going to get in the way). So who knows. Maybe I will be tapping the ASA.

Not to change topics... but this is my thread. :D Has anyone ever put/seen an LPR inside of a UMF? I've seen them inside of Vert frames and even Intellis, but I haven't seen an LPR inside of a UMF.

You'll have to either
a) Make a custom tap that can run down through the top of the frame
b) Through tap the 1/8-27 from the bottom, effectively removing the taper so you can thred the LPR in from the inside. You will need a good sealant to seal the treads now that there is no taper.
c) create a banjo bolt that threads into the LPR input and connects through the frame to the ASA.

B and C are easily done. A and B require creative use of orings and a bolt on ASA, not dovetail. I have a few pics afloating around of B and C.

[rawbutter]

You'll have to either
a) Make a custom tap that can run down through the top of the frame
b) Through tap the 1/8-27 from the bottom, effectively removing the taper so you can thred the LPR in from the inside. You will need a good sealant to seal the treads now that there is no taper.
c) create a banjo bolt that threads into the LPR input and connects through the frame to the ASA.

B and C are easily done. A and B require creative use of orings and a bolt on ASA, not dovetail. I have a few pics afloating around of B and C.

Well, now that you've mentioned these ideas, let me show you what I was thinking of doing.

I was going to...
a) drill tap the bottom of the UMF for a Tickler LPR.
b) tap the inside of the LPR for a set screw... creating an extension of sorts
c) drill an air hole through the set srew
d) since I will have a UMF with a dovetail rail, I have an ASA that will slide right onto that dovetail, preventing lateral movement (that's not really a step... just a fact)
e) on the ASA, drill out a little hole for an o-ring (this will prevent the o-ring from expanding).... and then drill a smaller hole to tap into the air source

Therefore, when I attach the ASA to the rail, set the o-ring, and screw in the LPR with the set-screw extension, the set screw (which has a tapered end) will sandwich the o-ring inside that little divot I drilled, and this will create a tight seal. Or at least that's the plan. The air will be partially redirected up through the o-ring, set-screw, and into the LPR, where I can use it for... well... you can figure out the rest.

Here's a quick diagram I whipped up... hope it helps to visualize all this.

http://www.rawbutter.com/images/internal_LPR.bmp

If you see any flaws in my design, feel free to point them out. I'd really love to do this without blowing anything up. :ninja:

[BREAD_DA_PAINTER]

here are a couple more pics of the waay i did my lpr..

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2370056

i didnt update these pics here yet... you will need a direct mount asa and not one that is a rail mount.. all you need to do is counter sink into on/off and that will keep oring from moving.. hope my pics help out..

:cheers:

[rawbutter]

here are a couple more pics of the waay i did my lpr..

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2370056

i didnt update these pics here yet... you will need a direct mount asa and not one that is a rail mount.. all you need to do is counter sink into on/off and that will keep oring from moving.. hope my pics help out..

:cheers:

Those pics do help a lot. I see the counter sink where your o-ring goes. That makes sense... and it's what I'm planning on doing.

Why won't this work on a rail-mounted ASA, though? Is the rail mounting not as strong as a direct screw mount? Will the 800+ PSI just blow the thing off?

[BREAD_DA_PAINTER]

Those pics do help a lot. I see the counter sink where your o-ring goes. That makes sense... and it's what I'm planning on doing.

Why won't this work on a rail-mounted ASA, though? Is the rail mounting not as strong as a direct screw mount? Will the 800+ PSI just blow the thing off?


to many areas to loose air... between the rail and on/off and then between rail and bottom of grip.... plus you would have to drill through rail and on/off at same spot... i just found it easier to drill on/off and have it directly mount to grip... but if ou can get a rail to work,, more power to you.. good luck with it.... :cheers:

[rawbutter]

to many areas to loose air... between the rail and on/off and then between rail and bottom of grip.... plus you would have to drill through rail and on/off at same spot... i just found it easier to drill on/off and have it directly mount to grip... but if ou can get a rail to work,, more power to you.. good luck with it.... :cheers:


No no no.... I don't think you're getting what I'm doing.

I bought one of the UMF frames, which has an intigrated rail on the bottom. So the ASA I have will slide directly onto the frame with no mounted rail in between.

Like this (http://www.automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2401687&postcount=243).

That's why I'm putting the little set-screw extension on the LPR. That way, when I screw in the LPR, it will create the needed tension between the ASA and the frame.

So you think that will work? 800 psi of pressure can blow an ASA off a rail, can it?

[Pneumagger]

Well, now that you've mentioned these ideas, let me show you what I was thinking of doing.

I was going to...
a) drill tap the bottom of the UMF for a Tickler LPR.
b) tap the inside of the LPR for a set screw... creating an extension of sorts
c) drill an air hole through the set srew
d) since I will have a UMF with a dovetail rail, I have an ASA that will slide right onto that dovetail, preventing lateral movement (that's not really a step... just a fact)
e) on the ASA, drill out a little hole for an o-ring (this will prevent the o-ring from expanding).... and then drill a smaller hole to tap into the air source

Therefore, when I attach the ASA to the rail, set the o-ring, and screw in the LPR with the set-screw extension, the set screw (which has a tapered end) will sandwich the o-ring inside that little divot I drilled, and this will create a tight seal. Or at least that's the plan. The air will be partially redirected up through the o-ring, set-screw, and into the LPR, where I can use it for... well... you can figure out the rest.
This is what I meant in option C by creating a banjo bolt ;)

[rawbutter]

This is what I meant in option C by creating a banjo bolt ;)


Gotcha... I thought banjo bolts were... well, nevermind.

[Spider-TW]

Gotcha... I thought banjo bolts were... well, nevermind.
The hillbilly version of ghetto? :rofl:

That could be a new mag category...

[cyberave68]

Cyber,

Isn't that the front end of a Logic Alpha Rail??

Oh the insanity of it all!! LOL

Nice set up though to do the drilling non the less...

:)
Well not an Alpha but one of mine...



butter boy..LOL I see what Bread is talking about. If you set it up that way it is going to be very hard to slide the asa on the rail and have a o-ring that HAS to stay in place to seal properly. the reason for useing a screw on asa is that allows you to not only get the o-ring in place but also put pressure to create a seal. When sliding the asa on you cant see what the o-ring is doing. Is it sitting right or folded in there or just not lined up properly. alot of things could go wrong trying to slide it on. and you cant see it to tell. It would be easier the other way...
Just my opinion... Oh and I PM'ed you the link....

[rawbutter]

Well not an Alpha but one of mine...



butter boy..LOL I see what Bread is talking about. If you set it up that way it is going to be very hard to slide the asa on the rail and have a o-ring that HAS to stay in place to seal properly. the reason for useing a screw on asa is that allows you to not only get the o-ring in place but also put pressure to create a seal. When sliding the asa on you cant see what the o-ring is doing. Is it sitting right or folded in there or just not lined up properly. alot of things could go wrong trying to slide it on. and you cant see it to tell. It would be easier the other way...
Just my opinion... Oh and I PM'ed you the link....

Thanks for the link. I stopped by Home Depot looking for a tap today... no luck. So I might be buying the thing online.

As for the o-ring staying in place, I was planning on sliding the ASA onto the rail first, and then dropping the o-ring in through the hole where the LPR is going to screw in. Then, screw in the LPR until it's nice and snug.

[Pneumagger]

Use a bolt on asa ... Problem solved.

[Spider-TW]

Thanks for the link. I stopped by Home Depot looking for a tap today... no luck. So I might be buying the thing online.
I thought I had seen one in the plumbing area of Home Depot also, but I bought my tap at ACE hardware. Home Depot is on the other side of the freeway construction and finding anything except sale items in there is pretty impossible.

[djellum]

Dont know if this would fit your ideas, but...

fab up a "C" type rail that turns the ASA sideways. Leave very little space between your asa and the bottom of the grip and drill out the bottom enough to just thread the tickler directly on the side (now top) port on the ASA. Fab'n the bracket should be easier than most options for this, but i dont know if this would look as "clean" as you seem to be going for.

I think that by the nature of the project the rail just doesnt fit well. either you will end up having hard line passages running through the rail and negating the benefit of having it, or you will have to add disconnecting hardware like macroline or something which will take away the clean look and add more size to everything.

The only other thing i can think of is if you could mill away some of the back part of the rail and tap as far back on the ASA as you can to put a low profile quick disconnect fitting, then have the female half of the QD on the end of the tickler. you would have to cut a notch in the bottom of the grip that could fit the male half while its sliding on, and then have a hole lined up to fit the female half. I have no idea if theres even close to enough room to add the QD to the tickler or if the rail is long enough to hold the bottle once a bunch of it is missing but...

[rawbutter]

Dont know if this would fit your ideas, but...

fab up a "C" type rail that turns the ASA sideways. Leave very little space between your asa and the bottom of the grip and drill out the bottom enough to just thread the tickler directly on the side (now top) port on the ASA. Fab'n the bracket should be easier than most options for this, but i dont know if this would look as "clean" as you seem to be going for.

I think that by the nature of the project the rail just doesnt fit well. either you will end up having hard line passages running through the rail and negating the benefit of having it, or you will have to add disconnecting hardware like macroline or something which will take away the clean look and add more size to everything.

The only other thing i can think of is if you could mill away some of the back part of the rail and tap as far back on the ASA as you can to put a low profile quick disconnect fitting, then have the female half of the QD on the end of the tickler. you would have to cut a notch in the bottom of the grip that could fit the male half while its sliding on, and then have a hole lined up to fit the female half. I have no idea if theres even close to enough room to add the QD to the tickler or if the rail is long enough to hold the bottle once a bunch of it is missing but...

Yeah.... the WHOLE point of doing an internal LPR inside the frame (IMO, anyway) is to make it invisible. If I have macro-line and fittings sticking out, that kind of defeats the purpose. I might as well go for the external LPR attached to the vert ASA.

It's an different idea, though. I'll give you that. And it's probably easier in the long run.

I'll tell you... the logistics of doing this whole thing, and the attention to detail... so many places to make mistakes. It really makes you think twice about what you're doing. I really want a sleeper pneumag with no external indications of what's inside (and it's also safer that way.... you don't have to worry about your LPR getting smacked by a stray shot). I'm still debating over my options, though.

And then there's that whole alternative of doing a pneumag with a Palmer's stabilizer. If I understood at all how that version worked, I might go for it. But sadly, I don't. :(

[midnightcharger2]

I just got done messing with 1 of my 2 UMF frames. Waiting on the tickler LPR to come to Japan since the plamer rock is too big / fat to fit in the frame.

Here is what I did to get everything sealed up nice and tight.

The center asa hole on the UMF frame was drilled out and enlarged to use a NPT 1/8 tap.
I tapped the bottom half way and then put the tap in the frame and worked it in half way with a wrench. (Which was a bit time consuming due to space constraints.

I put in a 1/8 grub screw in the bottom of the frame. The grub screw acts as an adjuster for the oring. Screwed in the lpr in the frame and it retains its taper fit, as well as the grub screw that screws in the bottom of the frame. Drilled a small hole in the grub screw to allow air to pass through.


Now here is the kicker of the project. Are you looking for the perfect Oring to fit the project. The old mag regulators had a fat regulator seat oring.

http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=31&categoryID=18

its about 2-3mm thick with a small hole in the center. It also fits the 1/8 hole perfectly without worry of folding or shifting. All that is needed is adjusting the grub screw so that 1mm or so of the oring is showing from the bottom of the frame. Then bolt on your ASA without a hole yet to test for leaks. (I had mine mounted and upto 800 psi without a single air bubble forming.) Being that its a fat oring, it compresses and pancakes out to seal in the tapped hole as well as retain its flat shape to seal agains the ASA adapter and the face of the grub screw.

Once the test is done to make sure that no air leaks, Use a digital Micro gauge where the hole in the tank ASA adapter needs to be and drill. No countersinking is necessary for the ASA.


Will post pictures if any are interested in the design (incase my directions are unclear)

Hope this helps the scene.

FRANK

[rawbutter]

Wow.... way to resurrect a dead thread.


Will post pictures if any are interested in the design (incase my directions are unclear)


My pneumag has been done for a month, and I actually gave up on the LPR inside of my UMF and used a Palmer's stabilizer instead. But I just couldn't figure out how to make the LPR fit inside the UMF without cutting the crap out of it.

Nevertheless, I'm still interested in the pics, Frank, and I'm sure there will be others who want to see it as well. So post them up.

[Spider-TW]

I would lilke to see the pics, too. Sounds like a good solution.

Your explanation sounds fine, but the pics would be nice.