How Would YOU Like to Play on a Pro Team with Manny???

[AGD]

AO,

First of all this is not some test or another crazy post this is for real. For certain political reasons I won't go into, it might be a good thing for AGD to own a pro team that they control. Since we are not going to go out and "buy" a bunch of pro players I had another idea.

I am considering putting a pro AGD Factory Team into the NPPL circuit for a couple of events a year. Instead of having regular members we could do a contest and have the winners get to come out and play on the team at the event. I was talking to Manny about this today and he even offered to play on the team as a guest star if it wasn't at an NPPL event. He thought it sounded like a lot of fun.

So that is the question, what do you think of playing pro at a NPPL event? Of course we would come in dead last but at least we are there!!

AGD

[timebomb]

If you're going to field a team, I suggest you put some effort into it, recruit from the community and have them stick together and play as a team throughout all 5 tournaments. To just send them out there like a bunch of cattle to get slaughtered wouldn't be much fun..if they actually tried, I think you would have a good thing going.

Mike

[FooTemps]

Tom, I think that the AO MEGAMEET tourny would make for a good recruiting grounds when it comes around. Do you want me to incorporate that into the plans right now?

[apache]

If I lived in the US I'd want to come and play there for sure ;) Though I don't think any publicity is good publicity... If I was a new tourney player and constantly saw "AGD Factory Team" last on the score lists, I'd think that there must be something wrong with AGD products.

Example: During last season I heard a rumor from my dealer: "the AGD's team Jax Warriors doesn't play with EMags, they play with Mags with Hyperframe". Of course I knew what's the reality because I read AO but the ex-cocker owner who wants to move to electro doesn't know. He may ask from the dealer "is emag any good or should i go with angel?" and the dealer tells the above. You don't need to be a genius to predict what gun the guy buys next.

[virus]

hmm.... this does sound like it could get interesting.....

Timebomb
i think this is supposed to be more in fun then anything else.... besides where else could those of us, that have no chance of otherwise playing in the nppl (the supposed best tournies with the best players) and do it on a factory sponsered team...... besides even Tom said "we would probly be in dead last, but we would be there"
back to tom and the rest

i for one wouldn't mind the chance to do this..... it would give me a reason to burn some of my vacation time (in other words i should almost always be able to go)
but a couple of questions for you Tom....
being a "factory team" what costs would AGD be covering and what would be our out of pocket expences.....
i would assume that entry fees you would grab(myself i never glaced at what they are for the nppl) but who buying the paint and travel expenses......

i think for us the players a perfect world would be AGD pickin it all up.... but that may not make good bussiness sense, but we cant expect you to foot the whole bill....

now i could be wrong... about this $$$ thing on the player end.... you have been way to nice to us in the past and you might pick up the whole tab, esp. seeing how you didn't want to go out and recruit for the nppl players out there now..... but i dont know what the factory end of this is orhow far you really are looking at going

ok typing for me right now... time to go work my 12 hour shift (soon to be 8 hour i hope)

[Manuel_FZR]

I would love it to play with Manny - but I´m really too weak to hold on with these guys in the NPPL - so it would be no fun for me to be cannon fodder for these guys; also these guys will have no fun to play with a amateur...
Also it would be no fun for the company to be represented by a team witch is not in the top three.
The contest is a good Idea. There you could pick up some talented guys and perhaps one or two will make it in the NPPL and get pros ...
I would prefer, to build up a really AGD-ProTeam with top players witch are able to win in the NPPL!
Also an untrained, scratched team would have no chance (and fun) against other ProTeams!
A winning AGD-Team would be a verry nice thing to see in the NPPL ...

[Snooky]

Tom I would be honored to be slaughtered while supporting AGD just give me a gun and ill do my best. Although if you really want to turn some heads get together some really good people to goto all the turneys. But tom if u need a person to goto one of the turneys near chicago count me in i will go down with my head help up high.

[manike]

I'd play :) But I'm not sure it's the best idea. I've played on scratch teams for the World Cup, Skyball and Mardi Gras in the US and just about every leg of the Millenium series in Europe. As a scratch team we have always played with the right spirit and had a lot of fun, but we didn't often play in the pro bracket...

With the new bracketing system in the NPPL you would play mainly other pro teams. And get destroyed most, if not all, games very quickly. It was fun playing as a scratch team in the right bracket because we won some lost some and kept the right attitude. I'm not sure how many would be able to keep that attitude when being beaten often and quickly by pro teams.

I'm also not sure what the position of the NPPL Pro's would be on this. I know some would find it funny, but people in other divisions may resent other teams from having an obviously easier game. If that effects the tourny outcome you will get resentment? Who cares? Well valid point but what you want for marketing is a top team to be using your products, you don't want to be resented by them.

While it also may be very amusing for yourself (I've played with scratch teams in pro divisions when there was no-show) it may not necessarily gain the results you wish it to. It was amusing for us when we did it and we held a few pro teams to close things, but ultimately we didn't get any respect for it. Many people get disheartened quickly by getting regular stuffings from the pros. Not that many people can take being non-stop cannon fodder.

I would suggest picking a top Am A team and sponsoring them, it would be cheaper, and if you can get them into the pro bracket that would be great respect. It would also make people think 'well the equipment works' because they just moved up a bracket. Rather than heck it's s pro team just getting given stuff, or 'it's a rookie team in Pro getting creamed, I wouldn't want to use a losers kit'... Some people won't know it's a rookie team in pro, They'd just see an AGD team getting stuffed and make assumptions...

But if you wish to put a fun team into big events and have someone like Manny and others 'guest' then I think that would be great. Let people play in a sensible bracket and have a chance. I played at the World Cup and we had PGP guest for us, it was a great experience, we learnt from him and had a huge amount if fun in his presence. We also had Pat Spohrer (Guy who filmed push and plays for the family) play with us and again we learnt and had fun. They will feel better about themselves and what they are doing in the long run. If you started offering prizes for players to play with the AGD team then you would get more people here and more followers. A regular series of guests would make it very cool and the guys would get a chance to meet and play with some of their hero's.

I'd suggest big events such as Skyball, World Cup, NPPL etc.

One example I have it the Tippman teams, i.e. Tippmann Effect. These guys have huge respect for what they do with Tippmans in tournies. They have the right attitude and have followers because of what they achieve and how they play (hard). They don't make a mockery by entering the wrong division, they play good hard paintball. I would think that is a better way to pitch an AGD team.

I thought it a very sad day and a mistake when I heard the Jax Warriors were no longer going to be a gun sponsored team. After all, the gun a player uses is the first thing others notice when they watch them play. How are people described on the field? 'That guy with the cocker', behind the can, or the 'angel dude in the snake'.

You don't really want people saying that bunch of idiots with E-mags playing in the pro division, do you? :rolleyes: Just my opinion, but I have been long known as a scratch player and the Tart of guesting paintball teams :)

manike

[Maghog]

Well, I see a couple of people writing from Europe as I am here from Germany.
I think we should form a European AO team, and show up at the world cup, and other millenium events.
I don't know if you guys already have teams you play with, or how serious you are about playing.
I don't care as much about winning as I do about having fun, and I think it's great that Tom wants to do something like this. I don't believe it's a bad idea at all, or that it could reflect badly on his company in any way, win or lose.
In fact I think it will make AGD more popular, especially since the AO family has such a strong bond already. Screen names would become personal acquiantances and possibly good friends. At the very least, it would help to spread the word that AO is more than just another forum.
I bet I could get sledgehammer to go, and I don't know if manike is already on a team in the millenium series or not, but if we could focus on doing just one event a year,
nothing that gobbles up all our finances or too much time, (I don't think Tom will want to sponsor more than one team, but maybe we can get some shirts out of it or something to make it look professional)we could just see where it goes from there.
To all of you that say we would just lose...where's your spirit?!?! You only lose if you don't try.
I would love to play in larger events, and I'm looking to join or form a team as it is. Having a team playing in the name of AO would be an honor, not to mention the fact that I love playing with people who have mags.
If anyone else is into AO Europe, let me know, I'm there!!!

[Maghog]

There's manike! But I'm sorry to hear his outlook is slightly dismal.
I would say for sure that I can handle the cannon fodder thing, I've been there and I've gotten better because of it.
I respect your opinion manike, especially since you've done it already and you know what the pitfalls are. Your experience could be very helpful to an AO team.
You said it yourself though, attitude is the key, and if people can't approach this with the right frame of mind, it can't work.
I know that losing isn't a big factor for me, I'm just happy to be there and give the best I've got. In the end, it's up to the people who want to get involved to know if they are able to take the pressure.
As far as playing with the pros goes, it doesn't make much of a difference to me who the opponent is.I've always believed that your game gets better when your opponent is better.

[luke]

Wish I had the skills to play on a Pro Team with Manny. :)

[Manuel_FZR]

Originally posted by manike
(...)
I would suggest picking a top Am A team and sponsoring them, it would be cheaper, and if you can get them into the pro bracket that would be great respect. It would also make people think 'well the equipment works' because they just moved up a bracket. Rather than heck it's s pro team just getting given stuff, or 'it's a rookie team in Pro getting creamed, I wouldn't want to use a losers kit'... Some people won't know it's a rookie team in pro, They'd just see an AGD team getting stuffed and make assumptions...

(...)

I thought it a very sad day and a mistake when I heard the Jax Warriors were no longer going to be a gun sponsored team. After all, the gun a player uses is the first thing others notice when they watch them play. How are people described on the field? 'That guy with the cocker', behind the can, or the 'angel dude in the snake'.

You don't really want people saying that bunch of idiots with E-mags playing in the pro division, do you? :rolleyes: Just my opinion, but I have been long known as a scratch player and the Tart of guesting paintball teams :)

manike

That´s also my opinion ... the example with the "idiots with EMags" is fun but realitiy!
... and belive me, people will thay that, if a AO Team will be cannon fodder in such an event!

[manike]

Originally posted by Maghog
There's manike! But I'm sorry to hear his outlook is slightly dismal.

Sorry about that, I've just done this many, many times. I think if we play in the right bracket then it would be great. Good for all concerned including AGD and the players. I just don't agree with playing in the pro bracket.


Originally posted by Maghog
I would say for sure that I can handle the cannon fodder thing, I've been there and I've gotten better because of it.


Yes and I know that I can and have also. But almost every scratch team I have played on, someone can't :( . Whatever they said before. And that's on teams that weren't very clearly in the wrong bracket.


Originally posted by Maghog
You said it yourself though, attitude is the key, and if people can't approach this with the right frame of mind, it can't work.

I agree 100%, I play for fun. I take it serious on the field and I play to win but it's all about the fun.

Let me give you an example. I often get landed as field captain due to a few years :rolleyes: (10) tourny experience. If I'm field captain, we will never sit back and get walked, we will go out with an attitude and go for it. We played skyball and were against the bushwackers (top Am team), we had a strategy to get flag hang point off them, but it required players making their moves on cue (we had some hilarious cues! :) ). We went at them and our guy got the flag just as he was lit up (didn't count) but we went at it and had fun, the guy who got shot respected it was a good move and it was hilarious for us all. I think you can actually see the film of that game on PigTV skyball 2000 (we were the Warpig team PIGCHAT). It was the right attitude and at that event, even though it was the worst ever Skyball. We came the highest out of all the scratch internet teams (I'd never met the other players before in my life! (nor had they) Actully except Bill Mills who I knew already. I walked passed them on my way to the bar at the start... ;) ) Even though he got shot that guy understood it and enjoyed it. He lasted just 30 seconds but talks about it as one of the best games of the weekend. That's the right attitude.

I then played World Cup, again we were out for attacking and getting points. I'm a believer in breaks. One game our front guy makes his break makes it and we play hard and win, great! Next game he gets shot on the way in. It happens :( . Next game he gets set but stops short. Like way short. Leaves a whole side open. When you are playing 5 man and have a team plan set, each man is very important) We get creamed. He said he didn't think he could make it (should have said before the game started, but not a problem onto the next game).

He says he'll do it for the next game. Stops short again, we get creamed. Next game I've been watching the field all week and we have to get the 50's or it's all over. He breaks for the important 50 and stops short. I go right passed him and take it (I'm a back player!) and I proceed to shoot 4 pots from a front position before getting taken, he gets shot about 30 seconds after I went passed him... (we won the game due to some amazing play by PGP from the Jax Warriors who was guesting for us). The player who kept stopping from trying the team plan was the only one to ***** about losing, he would get angry with the whole team play for not winning. Everyone else sucked it up and had fun, a HUGE amount of fun. But after his continual whining it started getting to other players. Afterwards he admitted he stopped short because he didn't want to get shot early, his whole idea of being good was not being the first one shot out. If that meant he sat at the back then he was happy... I pointed out most of the times he stopped short the whole team got shot out early anyway. In my opinion he didn't have the right attitude about what we were doing and why we were there.

He wasn't happy though, we actually won a lot of games and lost a few (I think it would have been worse if we had lost them all), but he still wasn't happy with that performance (it was his first big event, I'm not sure what he was expecting). I don't think he would have been able to take losing all the games. I on the other hand met a lot of friends, played paintball, got a tan, drank a few beers, talked tech, and had a fantastic week. I know that I could put a group of people together that would go play pro and enjoy it whatever happened. Because I know those guys. It's not as easy when it's a group of people you do not know, especially if there is any pressure on them.

If we were playing the pro's I'd expect to lose people on the breaks, but that shouldn't stop us from trying next time!

I wouldn't want to play against the pro's in a team of guys that stopped short, you have to have the right attitude at whatever level you play. If and when I play against the pro's I want them to see us in their bunkers. I want to go at it with the right attitude. If that means getting taken early or often I know I can handle that. I also know that not everyone can.

I would love to play in a team with Manny. He does the most amazing breaks I have seen in my life and he wears bright orange to distract the opposition from the rest of his team while he does it. I have the biggest respect for that. He has the right attitude and is a team player. That's what it is about. I have no doubt that if the right move was for him to break somewhere that meant he was always shot out in 30seconds but meant his team had a huge advantage then he would do it every time.

I have actually played Pro (In the UK I was part of the Mayhem Tigers about 5-6 years ago), I am no longer in a regular team due to work commitments though. I am starting to get back into one. I'm not sure what we are commited to yet next year (three guys just got made redundant :( ) But I am always up for a fun time. Dan if we do play any Millenium series events you are very welcome to join and play with us. I also often know of teams going short so may be able to introduce you to other teams. There are also quite a few German teams or teams from the area. I will put my feelers out and see who I can hook you up with. I certainly look forward to seeing you at some millenium events.

manike

[thei3ug]

I've done this once before, and it was probably the best experience I've ever had.

Course, we were'nt Pro...

[Gecko]

Tom
I think WPF is starting a new 10 man leauge. I know i have 2 mabye three guys who would play with AO. The league is just starting so hopefully we would have a decent chance.
Gecko

[skipdogg]

great idea Tom.. i'm in

[Lostfalcon]

I am game to be cannon fodder. If I am gonna be shot, might as well be by some and the best and I will have some fun doin it.

[Chupas2]

Hey Tom, You know Butterscotch Yo is in if you need players. :D

[Jeb_Hoge]

I'd say start with the model that Palmer's Pursuit has set up for the Splat-1 Indoor. Annual event, teams are picked by PPS based on applications (and some personal recommendation), and you meet and play in the appropriate bracket (novice, I think is where we always landed). In this case, the arrangement was you used your own Palmer gun, but PPS picked up all play-related costs. Maybe AGD should start out like this and then see how a more permanent team could be formed based on this experience.

[Dayspring]

Sure. I'd be happy to throw myself in front of a speeding paintball for you Tom.

[DaXtremeist]

i would be highly interested in this but unfortunatly i can't travel outa state because of work. but i can get weekends off and whatever days I need. I live in florida where there are tourny's alot so im in a good spot i feal for tourny play.

[irbodden]

Tom why don't you play with a few of your techs? Heh.. :)

... it would be pretty crazy to get to play pro in a tourney. I am sure you'd have no problem putting teams together.

[spacemanspiff]

I would love to opportunity to play on a pro team. And play against the other pro teams. I think that the better my opponent is the better that I play. Even if we were to lost it would be a great experience and I could learn alot. :cool:

[Goldie D Pimp]

I know I'm a newbie here, but would be willing to attend a "tryout" if one was to be held.

goldie!

[Thordic]

spacemanspiff has mad skillz, yo!

Haha, seriously, I've played with him, he's good.

I think it would be fun, we have a pile of AO members here in NJ. A couple of us are already in the process of forming a team :). But then again, one would think that an AGD team would be somewhere around Wheeling?

[PsychoMag]

Pick me...Pick me...I have used AGD equipment for years, and I am ready...little agressive, but I never REALLY hurt anyone :D

[Gunga]

Originally posted by Dayspring
Sure. I'd be happy to throw myself in front of a speeding paintball for you Tom.

Sounds like Tom would be the 'President' in a 'President' game of paintball with all the volunteers to be cannon fodder/bodyguards. :D

[tremis]

Count me in! I think its a fine idea. When I played in the NPPL I wanted to play the Pros. My team had traveled a ways to play against Bad Co, Image and the AAs just for the chance to play the best. It would be a great experiance. I would not hesitate to give it a go.

Tremis

[irbodden]

Originally posted by Thordic
Then again, one would think that an AGD team would be somewhere around Wheeling?


Exactly! I am the closest to Wheeling! :D

[Gambit1106]

I'm in to get gogged by the best in the game. Its all in good fun anyway. Who knows maybe an IL AO team may form or something. My team lately has been looking worse and worse to me and actually got me to not play for a while I was so aggravated.

Darren

[Paintballer86]

Im your man tom. :D cHOOSE ME! I think that that would be a great Idea!

[Dave]

ok, I haven't read anyone elses post in depth, but here is what I say. It would be tremendously fun, but at a cost. You mentioned yourself the AO team would probably come in dead last. Think about it for a minute. If you are going to be involved, and Manny, and all these AOers, probably 95% are going to be using mags, emags, rts, etc. Then, when the all mag team comes in dead last, people might say "There goes the loser mag team" Now I am not a pro, I have never played in a tournament, but my impression is that in the pro circut the mag has a bad name, and people slam it all the time. This would be one more thing for them to feed on. If it wasn't for that, if it wasn't for furthering the bad rap mags have, I would be 100% into it, even though I am a newbie. You would have to consider how valid a point this is, obviously because you are much closer to the pro circut than I am, but I would feel bad doing it, and coming in last then having everyone say to never buy a mag, cause all the mag users came in last.

-Dave

[snowman]

:) Tom, I'd love to play on a scratch team like this. I've been playing my buds for 10 years in scrub tourny's and would love to represent AGD in a pro series.

[Steven]

This would be something I could definatly get in to. Been playing since the day of the NelSpot (pre pump) have played hundreds of tournys. Although I can see some of the concern that other have already posted about the unbalance of teams abilities. Back then though it was all in the woods in camies. We typicaly placed some where in the top seeds but most important was our continual first place (voted by our peers) for best sportsmanship. This meant almost more then actualy winning. Our team was one of the first to go to England to play and chartered a sister team making us the first international team. We had numerous articles written about us as well.

Anyways will keep my eye posted on threads related to this.

BTW, the team I played on was known as T.A.C. aka Tactical Assault Command.

[manike]

Let's be honest guys who wouldn't want to get a chance to play for an AGD team.

My point is that we shouldn't be putting our own wants infront of wether or not this is a <i>good</i> idea.

Will this actually be good for AGD and the mag's image?

And I'm not talking about here on the board but out at the events and on the fields and in the general paintball world. Tom has already proven he can make people here jump through hoops...

That is the important question and the one you should be honestly answering, not wether or not Tom would get enough volunteers :D

I think it would be better for AGD if the team entered at the correct level and put in an honest hard effort than into pro.

manike

[markskee]

I would love to play on a team I have been playing for years trying to get a team to stay together so we could some day make it to a real tournament but the team always falls apart "Kids,Wife ya know the usual". And I don't care if we win or loose I just want to see what it's like to throw paint at a few of those over rated Fancy Pro players! that think they are all that and a bag of chips, I will die trying with a Mag in my hand. And I especially want to go after any pro's that say Cocker's are better than Mags as they try desperately to out shoot you. Where I live which is Los Angeles it makes me sick I deal with this all the time, the Mag seems to not exist anymore out here shops don't even sell it anymore or parts for it! :mad: I think the market and all the hype about cockers needs an attitude adjustment and a kick in the pants! Rock on MAG users!!!:D

[joeyjoe367]

Who's Manny? Seriously. I don't even know who he is.:confused:

...But if he can teach me to be a better player, I'd be all up for it. Although I'd have to convince my Parents to let me go all the way from Seattle to wherever the tourny would be.

That'd be cool.

Oh yeah, I don't have any stuff other than my 'gun. Would Packs and stuff be issued? Cuz I 'still wanna use my own 'mag.

[AGD]

You all have made some very good points, I am rethinking the idea.

AGD

[manike]

Originally posted by joeyjoe367
Who's Manny? Seriously. I don't even know who he is.:confused:

Manny is a front player on Aftershock... he uses a mag. Lately an SFL in black IIRC. You have heard of Aftershock I take it? :)

manike

[joeyjoe367]

Whaaa? Aftershock?

Wow.. I'm really out of this Pro-Paintball thing.

[Gambit1106]

Manike I agree with you on that note about sending a team to the proper level of play. It would be a bad idea to send a rookie or amateur team to play a pro team. I mean yeah I think it would be interesting to try it but after the fact of getting lit up in minutes I would be looked upon as a joke. I would want to walk in a tourney that I knew I was somewhere near the other player level of play. I haven't been playing tourney too long, feel I am nowhere near a great player let alone to attempt to play in a pro tourney. I would like to get on a team that would start out small and develop into something with practice not throw myself to the wolves for the slaughter.

Darren

[Bonx0007]

Tom, out here on the west coast we are trying to create a team that will be competitive in the 2003 LA Open. We are Team AO SOCAL. We started this 2 months ago. We want the chance to be a great team and this sounds like an awesome opportunity. Please consider us.

[irbodden]

Gambit- If you start up a "Team Ao, IL", I'd be happy to be a moving target for you guys at practice. Heh.. :D

[Butterfingers]

There are a lot of people out there who think tourney wins are a good judgement of how good a gun is. Its all in marketing :)

I would love to play in an AGD team. Win or loose it would be a blast. But in the long run I don't think it would be a good thing for AGD's image. It may not be the right way to think but nobody likes a looser.

As alot of you have said perhaps you can assemble a team of a few good people and rate them on thier proper level of play so the team would have a winning chance sure it wont be pro but it will be fair. Put it together hold some "try outs" name the team "Buzz" and have some fun. :)

[Maghog]

Manike, be it an AO team or not, I just want to play. Let me know when you need an extra guy and I'll be there.
I think that being realistic about the chances of this kind of "scratch" team is fair to anyone who wants to get involved.
I've also played with people who have turned a fun day into a frustrating one, and I like to avoid getting into that situation as much as possible. The pitfalls you have described are a reality we all need to consider, especially Tom.
I don't aspire to be a pro, and aside from yelping in pain when I get shot in the love handles, I usually carry a smile on my face for the entire day.
It doesn't look like I'll be playing a heck of a lot in my first year here(mostly due to financial reasons) but I have every intention to attend as many millenium events as I can if only to meet some people.
If I get the chance to sit in a game or two with a bunch of jolly blokes from England, or a few beer guzzlers from Germany, I'll be more than happy.
In any case, I'll be there.
Oh yeah, is there a website, or calendar for the millenium that you could hook me up with?
I'd appreciate it.

[kilaueakid]

I think that it's an excellent idea. When are tryouts? :D

I honestly think that throwing the team directly into the pro division may be a mistake though. Start them out at the bottom(or AM B), let the team develop and grow into the professional level. I would also imagine that if this team wants to perform well, it has to get together every couple of weeks for practice.

Kila

[manike]

Dan, the millennium series website is going to be http://www.millennium-series.com/ but they haven't sorted it out yet.

You can often get all required info from PGI's website which is p8ntballer.com The forums are at
http://130.94.173.222/vb/index.php?s=&dontcacheme=1006206890
and the tourny forum is where you can get info or sometimes find a team to play with.

manike

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Maghog
...or a few beer guzzlers from Germany, I'll be more than happy.

While not from Germany I would be glad to be on the AO beer guzzling team. Count me in for that! http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/bier.gif

[manike]

I can provide the English beer guzzling contingent. A Multinational AO team would be cool :cool:

manike

[Tim Jacobitz]

Tom I would love to play, you will not find any one here who does not want to play. BUT I think you do not have enough faith in us. I know I am good enough to get some wins. There alot of other guys in here that are also good enough. If you pick me and atleast 2 other good guys; and give use the right equipment I will garuenty at least one first place tournment finish. GUYS WHO SHOOT MAGS OUR ALWAYS A LITTLE FASTER FOR THE WISSEL AND ARE ALWAY A SMALLER TARGET.

[manike]

Originally posted by Tim Jacobitz
If you pick me and atleast 2 other good guys; and give use the right equipment I will garuenty at least one first place tournment finish

I don't know of anyone who could guarantee that in the NPPL ever!

May I ask what your tournament experience is? who do you play for? in what events and what have your results been?

thanks

manike

[hitech]

I would personally enjoy it, win or lose (yeah, yeah, I know, lose). Having "guest" players would be great. Back when I played tournaments (before some of you were born!) I thoroughly enjoyed having "guests". More so the industry leaders. Jessica Sparks, Randy Kamia (sp?) and Dave "Youndblood" (I can't remember his last name) come to mind. Talking to Jessica and Randy was VERY interesting. They were very passionate about the sport and had strong opinions. For me, that was the best part.

I tend to agree with those that said getting slaughtered probably wouldn't do any good for AGD. But, it's your company and you can lead me to the chopping block! :D

[Sledgehammer]

Hey Dan, I guess I'm game... :D
As long as it doesn't get too much and tooooo expensive... ;)
Ohoh, my Wife's gonna kill me... :(
Second thought: I got a service pistol she doesn't... :p

And by the way, I played in the Mayhem Masters in 1994 an my team didn't come out dead last (We were like 31st of 60 teams). :cool:

I could be the German beer guzzling contingent since British beer really sucks (no offense Manike) ;)

[manike]

None taken :) I drink Guinness at home and WeisBeer in Germany :) Neither are British. I agree British beer sucks. Warm ale? eeewwwww


manike

[Sledgehammer]

Yeah, I gotta admit, Guinnes is pretty decent.

[Hexis]

How about an amateur team? Impress others while they are new and own em with AGD gear.

I have been playing paintball for almost 10 years. I have never played in any kind of tourney. I'm sure there are others like me out there.

[Sledgehammer]

By the way (thinking about beer):
Do you guys know why american beer is like sex in a canoe?

[Hexis]

It's f-in close to water?

[Sledgehammer]

exactly

[bofh]

Originally posted by manike
None taken :) I drink Guinness at home and WeisBeer in Germany :) Neither are British. I agree British beer sucks. Warm ale? eeewwwww

manike

I spent many a good night dirnking as much McEwan 80 shillings as I could... But I suppose that's Scotish. Good stuff however.

Also a night in Buckingham (the town! south of Silverstone) drinking a *lot* of 6X. Really good stuff. All warm, all good.

British beer is good... and if you don't like british beer, then... more for me. :)

[cledford]

AGD,

I'd love to play - got all the gear, including an Emag, ready to go! Also just passed the 3 year mark for my company, so I'm now up to 3 weeks off a year.

I'll make a deal - I'll pay the travel costs!

-Calvin

[Riotz]

Tom,

I think you should just run our soon to become team. ;)


Half of the guys on the team already worship you. We all shoot Mags. All use warps. What else could you want? =]


We will do your bidding... "baa, baa"
Tom, will you be our pied piper?

Seriously though. hehe

[skipdogg]

How many times have you heard "it's the player not the gun"

exactically!!!!!! we would be dead last cause we suck as tourney players

its not the GUN!!!!! AGD has nothing to lose and everything to gain. AGD is represented at ALL major tournies. People can still see product. AND when everyone realizes Tom is willing to put his CUSTOMERS on a team it makes him even cooler. Who else is putting their CUSTOMERS out there???? NO ONE!!!!

There's no bigger reason for someone to buy a mag..... just because of Tom's undying support to CUSTOMERS.


Tom - how's that go again????? "IT's THE PLAYER NOT THE GUN"!!!!!!!!

[i-luv-my-rt]

Guys I have alot of tourney experience and alot of great finishes. SOme of you are saying win or lose you'll love to play. It wont work that way.

If you lose in a PRO class especially not being a pro you will loss hard. As in a 3-4 man sweep with them bunkering half your team. Chris Lasoya shooting 13bps with a case of paint on his back ready to take your head off as a newbie comes over the top of a base.

I have played against Lockout b4 and amatuer team Sonic Rage. These teams are tuff and way to smart to be messed with. Not trying to sound like i'm afraid b/c thats not even the case. My problem with this is, if your going to enter an AO team in PRO they HAVE to be a real PRO team.

I would love to play in NPPL events as an AO team, but it's alot of money and i would not waste it if i didnt know we had a chance to do well. I've played paintball for 4 years had an amazing amount of fun. Winning tournies is my game. Most will disagree with me and say i'm the wrong kinda tourney player and whatnot. You go and spend alot of money on equiptment and paint and everything then get your butts handed to you.

[Riotz]

I doubt Tom is thinking of creating a team and then having them go into tournaments without practice.

[Daniel Morse]

Tom, what knid of question is that? Ofcourse I would love to play pro! Sign me up. Unless this is another joke of yours. You have been messing with us too much lately. Where do I sign?:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :eek:

[i-luv-my-rt]

Practice is nothing when compared to many pro teams. These teams have been together for years and know each other and know the game better then any. EXPERIENCE means way more then a little practice. Knowing what to do when comes with alot of time. Not something you'll learn in a few months. I hate to be the negative one here but i know and have seen these things happen.

[shartley]

“It’s the player, not the gun.”

Yup there you have it! So why even bother buying any AGD Markers? Go pick up a Spyder! After all.. it is the player.. NOT the gun.

In all seriousness, some people are forgetting what tournaments are for and the implications they carry. People DO (in spite of what some may like to think) relate the Marker WITH the WIN, and the other way around. Why else would ANY team be sponsored? It is about perception.. and perception can make or break a business.

I am with those who say that if you are going to do this, do NOT put them up against Pros. And do you think the Pro team they face will be happy to know they got to advance because they played the AO Team? I personally would be insulted that I put in all that time training and working as a team just to go up against a team thrown together for cheap publicity. These Tournament guys do this as a SERIOUS sport.. please do not insult them like that.

And you should NEVER go into a tournament as a joke knowing you will not last one round. This is just down right disrespectful to those who take it seriously and worked hard to get there.

You want to run a team? Why not do it against the lower levels? Heck, you may even stand a chance of Winning. Or do it at some big scenario event. If you go against the Pro guys you will be the laughing stocks of the event… and for a long time to come. And I am surprised that more don’t realize that.

AGD was suppose to be about quality… not about laughs. And if you think “outsiders” will take it as “Wow, AGD cares about their customers… look they trust them to represent them at the event!”.. you are dead wrong. And there are two kinds of laughter…. because something is genuinely funny, and the other is because something is totally ridiculous… which do you think will be the prevailing laughter and implications derived from it if you run the team against Pros?

But some people will think what they want to anyway… Just putting in my .02 like everyone else.

[i-luv-my-rt]

Every word in that statement is 100 percent correct. Thanks for helping me and many other people who understand tourny play.

[skipdogg]

Sometimes life is not so serious. Paintball is a game. And i do it to have fun. So does a lot of ballers. Maybe my idea of fun is being corn-holed by a pro. Also, spyders are not in the same league as most mags... otherwise PGP's could go against E-mags. Im not saying Pro is a good idea, but Am or Novice would work.
And what's wrong with someone giving their customers a chance at something?
Why not call the team AGD Customers, so that people know what the deal is. A lot of things in paintball are rediculous. Like so and so shoots a whatever, so i must get a whatever. Just like someone else said, i dont buy Nike's cause i think they turn me into Jordan!!!
Paintball is a G-A-M-E. Look at the Carolina Panthers. They went 1-15.. is that an insult to other Football teams? Should no other teams play them again cause they suck so bad?
whatever.... i just think it's a unique concept that no one else in paintball would even think of, except for Tom

[rpm07]

I think it is a good idea. I think to start a good team is to have people that never realy played in pro games and have a pro player teach the team the right way to play and win. I think if you have a bunch of pros they just want to do things their way. It is always better to form a good team with raw guys that are willing to listen and learn. I would be proud to be a team like that and have the chance to represent AGD and Automags.org

[Riotz]

Isn't this what Team Maxim did or am I mistaken?

[marc]

sounds like a good idea, but Im not a profesional wiper (I never wipe) so I would suck. Second I do want to eventually play in the nppl, but if I played pro on your team that means the only division I could ever play is Pro correct? Because if I am right than I think it would be great and fun, but since I would like to think that I have a little future in paintball I would have to not join. Of course if you begged me I would consider it.

[Turbo]

I like the idea, but I am not sure what the image of losing big at the Pro level would do to AGD's image. Shartley explained it best when he said that the pro teams work really hard to get where their at and not to come to some big tournament to play a team just put together. Maybe try it out first out the lower levels like suggested by others since you do not know what kind of players you are getting when its a contest over the 'net. A suggestion for a team I have is to see an AO Team of all the moderators here. That be fun and entertaining if it was to happen. If you do decide to do the contest though, count me in for the drawing. It be fun to have a chance to win to play for a team like that. Overall though, if the contest happens, it will be fun for anyone who is selected, win or lose.

[MajorDamage]

I'd play! Sign me up! I'd be all like "BEWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! I WIN NOW! BEWWWWWWWWWWWW!" and it would be soooooooo boss! :D:D!

ENDO!

[Webmaster]

Mee!! mee!!! I wanna Play NPPL PRO!!!

[Webmaster]

From Shartley
"And you should NEVER go into a tournament as a joke knowing you will not last one round. This is just down right disrespectful to those who take it seriously and worked hard to get there. "

Oh you are sooo wrong there. I have been in several major tournament with teams put together from people I met online. I was at the first skyball on a team that played STOCK CLASS vs Semi Autos! We even WON a couple games!!

I have played in 10 man at the Zap am against some great teams!

Our team expects to loose. We are individually good players and great sports - but we dont practice together and cant hope to do seriously well.(even though we did very respectful in the last skyball)

Sure, for a serious competitor with a KILL KILL they take the game seriously. Some of them work hard to get where they are at (others make up the rest of the fodder that paid to play). Simply put - I wouldnt trade all my tournament experiance for anything. It is truely some of the best fun I have ever had even though I went in knowing I was out classed (and in some cases out gunned).

There are many reasons to play tournaments - to live the experiance and to have fun is one of them.

[manike]

Originally posted by Webmaster
Simply put - I wouldnt trade all my tournament experiance for anything. It is truely some of the best fun I have ever had even though I went in knowing I was out classed (and in some cases out gunned).

There are many reasons to play tournaments - to live the experiance and to have fun is one of them.

I agree 100%. I reccommend people try tourny play, just for the crack. I play everything from stock class and big games to the World Cup and Millenium Series tournaments. I love it all!

manike

[gimp]

I only read the first page, so I don't really know what the topic has turned into. I'd love to play in a pro tourny. I'd get slaughtered, but I think it would be fun. After I get killed by a pro team I wouldn't really be intimidated by any of the other teams I usually play with.

[brian terry]

hummmmmmm BY BY BRIMSTONE SMOKE HELLO AGD PRO ,......

[tunaman jr]

i wanna play!
what kinda contest is it gonna be?
i hope i win

[AGDRules]

If you are serious about putting together a pro team for AGD, I am very interested. Let me know all the specs on this so I know what you are planning on doing, thnx in advanc.

[brian terry]

a guys if you all really want to play nppl pro or pro at all ,the team has to talk and work as a team and get along as well ,win or or not the team has to go and play every game as it was the first game of the day ,and if u make a bad move and get hit dont get mad or start acting like a fool it will bring down the team,so people if agd dose put a pro team in the nppl lets make a good show on the field and win the whole thing ,but if the agd team dont win, well come off the field with your heads high and be a good sport ,the team will make agd look good win or lose,...

[Panzerr]

I'm in, though I don't like the "lottery" idea. I think it would be very bad for team spirit. I disagree about Team AO being slaughtered. I've got enough confidence in myself, and a few names I've come to recognize on the forums to believe that we could put together one hell of a team.

[shartley]

Webby
You know, you may be correct….

Oh you are sooo wrong there. I have been in several major tournament with teams put together from people I met online. I was at the first skyball on a team that played STOCK CLASS vs Semi Autos! We even WON a couple games!!So I will now print a retraction….

It is okay to go into EVERY tournament with the expectation of never winning.

Better? No? Could it be that I am NOT SOOO wrong, but maybe only wrong in some circumstances? Or that I just might have a difference of opinion that can not be proved truly wrong or right from a FACTUAL standpoint? That under some circumstances it may be okay to enter into SOME tournaments without a realistic expectation of winning, but maybe not others?

I think this was my point.. not so much an absolute, but more of MY thought process for the major tournaments. Also, you even admitted that some .. let me see….

Sure, for a serious competitor with a KILL KILL they take the game seriously. Some of them work hard to get where they are at (others make up the rest of the fodder that paid to play). Simply put - I wouldnt trade all my tournament experiance for anything. It is truely some of the best fun I have ever had even though I went in knowing I was out classed (and in some cases out gunned).

There are many reasons to play tournaments - to live the experiance and to have fun is one of them.ahh,.. now that was it, wasn’t it?

So would you be saying that for those that take tournaments very seriously, that THEY are SOOO wrong as well? Seems like you are saying that different people view parts of the sport differently.. and if that is the case, how could I be wrong in an opinion that is JUST that.. an opinio of how I feel people should approach tournaments, and this one in particular?

People’s thoughts and opinions may differ on this, but I can not honestly see it as a right or wrong issue. How could it possibly be so? So, I would suggest that you may STRONGLY disagree with me, but that neither of us would be wrong at all. ;)

[OhMyAMoose]

I would think that it would be a hoot! Maybe it would not be so fun getting killed by some of these teams but I am sure I would have a good laugh after it was all over with. I dont know how these tournmets go but is there like different skill levels? Just put us in the lower skill level and we might have some type of chance(ahhh probaly not :-) ). I would think it would kind of be funny and I would love to have a chance to go play in a big tournment. I would like to know a little about this tournment scene and all what it is about. Hell, I dont even have a gun anymore so I would have use my friends spyder or I could just run around and throw paintablls. It would be great! Just think... a few rec. ballers randomly selected to play with the big boys. Let the comedy and fun begin! I like the idea Tom.

[virus]

now when i wrote my original post this morning before i went to work, i had just woke up and posted in my morning fog and find that i left some stuff out..... that and i had a slow day at work =)

anyway if this were to happen an AM B would probly be a good start ... even if that may be even a little high... but ya never know how one will play untill ya hear GAME ON!!!! and then things get interesting from there on out....

one thing to consider might be to sponser on a more regieonal level... ie PanAM on the west coast NEPL on the east and/or the central and southern circuts out there.....

this would allow the players to get some tourny xp and find those that are willing to stick with it and learn the ropes or in this case tape.... also this could allow you to do a little scouting among us to throw a scratch team together for the big events starting in the lower levels of events like mardi gra, skyball and the likes... of course who is to say these reginal teams may just make it on there own there to begin with....

but the question for sponsering any regional teams would be what type/bennies you could offer....

just remember most teams take time to build and as others have stated most have been together for years now, but there are always new teams out there working their way up and they all had to start somewhere (ok except for some teams thats win over some great talent somehow to make an even stronger team....) (even they can get taken out by a guy with rental pump... ok so its not to likely but it can happen)

now how to start these teams up if a reeegional team theme is supported... there are many ways to go about this and i'm not going to list there here as that would be for another post and probly topic sometime in the future, but it never hurts to get the ol' gears in the heads of AO members spinning now

[AngelBoy]

I think the regional team idea is great. Have a team for a bunch of different leagues or series or whatever. But if you did that AGD wouldnt be able to financially support them all, so you would be giving up money for a better chance to be able to play. I would love to, but, would you really have to have a mag to play under AGD? lol, ok I'm dreamin, o well. But the regional teams sounds like the best plan to me. I agree with all the comments posted about jumping into pro, but I would love to be able to say "I have played pro and have been shot by _______ (insert pro player's name here)." Just my 2 cents.

[Bluntman]

Well, Bad Company did invite me first, but since this was so obviously directed at me I guess I'd accept. :cool: :D

[graycie]

i agree with many points stated throughout this thread. literally throwing a team into the pro bracket will end up hurting agd more than helping it. it screams "well we lost jax warriors, so uh.....lets um...make a team!". having a bunch of strangers come together and finishing dead last at a nppl event in my opinion is not effective marketing. nppl being the target events , its also not cheap to lose.also haveing new players enter in the pro bracket will have an effect on their player ranking later on in the future, eventhough its just one event.

reading through the whole thread many have tried to state they're "qualifications" to be on this team. what i have noticed is many of those willing to be rolled over repeatedly are very young players just getting into tournament play. players of this category would be better utilized in events like the iao, ultimate madness,skyball, etc. then have a am b team enter into the nppl of more experienced players, to represent agd. not necessarily enter the team as "agd" , but under a regular name but have agd represented as a major sponsor. what i'm getting at is brand association. missouri magic for instance people know that wgp is their major sponsor, then there is the team in the nppl that has "pro paintball" really big on the back of their jerseys, people know who they are and who their major sponsor is. having everyone shoot a mag is nice and displays the mag, but players having other markers set up with other agd products (warps, halo, flatline) will show the diversity of agd products.

/me thinks this was another one of tk's late night ideas:D

[Drew]

I'll play, but can I use my Autococker:eek: :D

[Maui PFB]

Tom
Myself and M-a-s-s Driver would love to showcase your products and promote this great sport to everyone that might see us play pro, at any tournament you decide to enter into. My mm518 has seen lots of tourney action,since 1993 and it still holds its own. Massdriver and I played tourneys with the California Landsharks out of Sacramento. I wonder if Oh or Moon would want to play also. I live in Maui now but I miss the tourney scene. Sounds like fun!!
Thanks

[spacemanspiff]

Hey Thordic thanks for the compliment. You got some good move yourself. Divin over those hyper bunkers, that day in the rain:D
What ever the decision is about startin a team either in the pro or amature division. I hope to be able to get a try out for it. And if it don't happen it was a great idea to kick around.:)

[Maghog]

Sledgehammer-that makes two of us. I can't afford huge tournament costs every month, but once a year, well, I think that's worth saving up for.
If anything, with manike, you and myself there, we could blow the pro teams away when it comes to putting away the beer. I don't know that AGD wants to be associated with a reputation like that, but it could give us the upper hand come gameday when all the pros are hung over.
Hehe, okay, nice fantasy Dan...

The American AO team could be really good if it's done correctly. People with negative reactions to the concept have to also remember that pro teams did not become great overnight. Team AO has to start somewhere, and if it's going to have a rough time the first few years, so be it. It would be great to hear how Manny and his team started out.
I see a lot of people willing to play, but are you good enough?
I'm sure there are people here who are, and instead of just randomly grabbing a few participants, why not have members post their tournament experience and how commited they would be to such a team.
Here's my resume which would automatically eliminate me from contention:
3 man woodsball rally tourney: 1st place out of 8 teams
3 man speedball rally format: last place out of 10 teams
5 man speedball: 8th out of 14
I also live across the pond, so I can't make it to the games.
As you can see, I have very little experience, and therefore would not be a great candidate when considering the fact that some of the guys here have some really stellar achievements (albeit not in the nppl) in paintball. Not only that, but my location makes it near impossible to participate.

If the team has different members every year, the team can't grow. But if everyone posts their stats(with honesty of course) then maybe the members could vote on what they think the best roster could be. That way we've all had our say and team AO would be offering the best it has got.
I really don't think that discarding this concept should be done so hastily. If it's built properly, and yes, starting out in a lower bracket would probably help a lot to strengthen the teams cohesion, then it could become a contender in the tournament scene.
I think this means practice, dedication, and to some extent, sacrifice.
You all say you want to, but do you know what is involved in being a team? If this idea was just to have forum members get together and play at tournaments once in a while, then it is not really going to work, and the fears of AGD being ridiculed could well be true, particularly in the spotlight venue of the nppl where everyone looks at what gear the winners and losers use.
I don't think Tom will run an ad in APG like the one about the Jax Warriors taking Nashville if we're losers.
I'm going on too much now, but I stick to my guns that if the members can put their egos aside for the good of the team, and promote the people that they think have the skill then we could really take this somewhere.

If I may quote Major Damage but once with the notice that I have given my opinion..."ENDO!"
I just love that.

[lonsch]

I agree with everything mankie has said so far. It will not be a good thing to enter a rookie team in the pro class at an nppl event. If you really want an agd team start at the am b level and put a team together that is out there to win as well as have fun not just get slaughtered every time.
Playing NPPL is something that I have wanted to do for a very long time. I had the chance to play this year’s world cup but I couldn’t because of school reasons. Now lets just say that the whole pro agd team goes ahead and by some chance I get to play on that team. From now on I am considered "pro" by the nppl. Now it would be almost impossible for me to play nppl on an am b team. So I don’t think I would want to play on this team.

[Nitroduck]

I dont want to be mean but.....

I think putting a "AGD Factory Team" with throw-together contest winners is a horrible idea.....

Like someone said earlier, I'd be ashamed to see "AGD Factory - 35 points" in the pro division.

Heres a idea for you......

Host a "AGD Open"

1 on 1 top gun tournament SERIES around USA....

Have like 2 or so....East Coast North (NY, NJ). East Coast South (FL), West Coast North (Washington....maybe SC village) and then one at Las Vegas , Midland (Chicago, Texas).

Have 1 on 1 topgun style formatting...Big publicity....

Say.......100+ people come in.....Obviously the good ones are gonna win.......

Winners of the regional get to goto the finals at Badlandz..

Say there are 5 hosting fields......The top 10 become "AGD Factory 10man" for that region......

Then.....Get all these 5 AGD Factory Teams together at Badlandz on that new Hyperball field and do a special 10man Modified NPPL rules field.

Grand Prize : AGD Factory Sponsorship for the winning 10man team.

Or.....You could just get a huge 10man tourney going, and winning team gets all AGD sponsorship....That'd be a good idea......

Oh yeah Tom.....You REALLY need to make AGD Jerseys.....Every single major company has them now.......Except for AGD and WDP......Easy publicity.

[nutz]

amazing idea tom!!! i would be happy to play in that!

[athomas]

The AO team idea is a great idea. I agree with many of the other people here stating that the team should be in the proper class. I don't think "Pro" is the way to go. Stick with "Amature A". You'll get much more respect. Plus "Pro" would ruin the amature eligibility of many of the players on the team.

In an Amature class I think the team would do well. It is amazing what a group of good individuals can do. I remember going to a 5-man tounament in Wasaga Beach in Ontario, Canada. Five of us got together. The strange thing is that most of us had never met, only talked to each other on the phone because of business dealings. Only two of us knew each other personally. We met the night before the tournament, had some beers and talked it up. The next day we started play. We started slow and got shot up a bit at first due to a few miscues. Then we started communicating better and in the second half of the tournament we rocked. We missed the finals by just a few points due to the slow start, but we were the only team in the whole tournament that beat all three of the teams that placed 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The top teams were also the top teams in Canada at the time. We had a blast and got some respect along the way. People knew who we were when the tournament was over.

It can be done and you can have fun doing it. I made some great friends on that trip. We're all from the East Coast of Canada.

Shawn (Can't remember his last name- nice guy from N.B.)
Jeff Hogg (recreational player now)
Gary Mackenzie (Spikes Warriors, N.S.)
Roddy MacDonald (before he joined the All Americans)
Andy Thomas (that's me - hired gun, I'm in the process of looking for a team thats capable of good sportsmanship above all else)

If a through together team goes out to have fun and sticks together for each other, it can happen. Its all about having fun, but its also about trying your best.

If it does happen. I'm in. I'll represent the Eastern Canadian contingent. LOL. Pass the beer.

[Lentz]

Holy **** this is the coolest **** ive ever heard. write me down for this one im one hell of a back/ mid players and can support my front players very nicely. sign me up for whatever contest this is im there and ready to fork out money

[Webmaster]

Shartley - you stated an absolute:
"And you should NEVER go into a tournament as a joke knowing you will not last one round. "

Which is false because there are situations when people do enter tournaments for the experiance and fun - and not as a competative endevour.

Then you sway all the way back to the other side with:
"It is okay to go into EVERY tournament with the expectation of never winning."

Life (at least for me) is not all or nothing, black or white. In my statement I made allowences that there are generally 3 types of team: Serious competitors, competitors who are there to learn but arent on the level of thier peers, and people whop play for the experiance and fun.

You stated an absolute - wither that was your intention or not, thats what you do when you use a word like "never".

"So would you be saying that for those that take tournaments very seriously, that THEY are SOOO wrong as well? "

Nope - people that take tournaments seriously are just another facet. Since you have most likely never been in a tournament, I could see where you were possibly not aware of the myrid assortment of motivations for people playing tournaments. Ive done it as a serious competitor, and to enjoy the experiance.

Simply put - one shouldnt discount anyones motive for entering a tournament - even if its for a goof.

[manike]

Originally posted by Webmaster
Simply put - one shouldnt discount anyones motive for entering a tournament - even if its for a goof.

I say we make a team with Pump E-mags (it can be done!) and then go laugh histerically at Skyball or some similar event :)

Some parts of paintball are all to serious and some are all too goofy. There is a right time and place for each.

manike

[Webmaster]

i-luv-my-rt

Dude - you are exactly what Manike is talking about. He isnt saying skyball isnt a serious tourny - hes saying people take things too seriously and its good to remember why you play and have fun once and awhile.

PS - I played stockclass at the first skyball - it was fun!!

[shartley]

Thank you.

I am flattered that you lend so much weight to an obvious “opinion”.. and even when stated as such (more than once). And sorry, but when dealing with “Opinions” (which we WERE) it is actually irrelevant weather the “absolute” is factual or not in the real word as anyone BUT the person stating the “opinion” views it. That is the great thing about opinions.

But you would have no argument if you dealt with my statements as they were intended.. only as the way I personally see something, and as an OPINION. Only by ignoring the fact that I was not stating FACTS, but FEELINGS, can you even come back with any sort of argument… thus it must only be FOR the purpose of arguments.. and not dealing with the original intent of the posted statements. This is unfortunate… but I have come to take this as common practice here.

You also clearly took my last post and took things out of context as well with:
Then you sway all the way back to the other side with:
"It is okay to go into EVERY tournament with the expectation of never winning."Well.. sure. I did so on purpose. It was an OBVIOUS exaggeration to make a point.. I was not serious at all. But your post makes it LOOK as if I was… again, shows how if you take things out of context you can drastically change their original intent. And this can help “prove” something that just was not an issue in the first place… great though if you only want something to argue about.

I can state facts and people want to argue them… I can then state obvious opinions (and keep stressing that they are ONLY opinions) and some will want to lend them weight as facts, and then argue that point as well. So strange.


Since you have most likely never been in a tournament, I could see where you were possibly not aware of the myrid assortment of motivations for people playing tournaments.Nice attempt at condescension. But the fact of the matter is, that you do not actually have to do something to KNOW about it. So your statement could very well be taken as reverse ignorance?

Point in case, the highest paid special teams coach in the NFL is (and has always been) unable to play the game. He has never played a single game of football in his life. But he sure knows a few things about it. ;) This does not hold as a DIRECT correlation to my particular situation as it pertains to paintball, but does shoot down any sort of argument that unless you actually DO an activity that you may not know about it… that is just not close to being true.

I also have contact with a wide range of players… so you can put your mind at ease about what I may, or may not be aware of.

Once again, I was ONLY stating OPINIONS… and not only that, but opinions used to stress how I felt directly related to the issue Tom brought up. People can think what they want… that is the great thing about all this. But please do not lend weight to a statement not originally intended by the person writing it, or take it out of its total context just to have something to argue about. This happens a lot here on AO, and has been pointed out more than once recently by other members. This time it looks more like something to argue about, than any positive contribution to the Thread Topic and initial question.

There are more important things OTHER members have posted about on this topic than my “opinion” on any one subject or idea… picking at it only looks silly. Lets stick to the real issue, can’t we?

As for the rest of your post.. you proved my point, even if you don’t see it. Thanks.

[i-luv-my-rt]

I know understand where you and manike and some others are coming from and do apoligize in some aspects. if i am going to pay near 600 bux just to plat the weekend not including all the money i'm gonna spend at the AGD booth:D , then i'm gonna make sure i have a good team and go in there with the mind to win.

When i play smaller(most of the time funner) tourneis i go to have fun. Yesterday i played in a small but very competitive 3-man. Only 8 teams but all the best from around my area. We ended up winning and getting the sportsmanship award, so i am not just a hard-core winning tourney player. Also if i'm playing with some friends i will whip out the TALON or VULCAN 5000(both only cost me 5 bux) and have fun all day.

I guess the way i stated alot of my stuff was and/or ignorant, so i will stop posting in this thread. I hope i showed you(webbie and manike) that i am not exactly what you guys are talking about. That i am just the opposite.

[manike]

Originally posted by i-luv-my-rt
Are you trying to say that Skyball is a joke tournament.

Skyball is not a joke event. No Tournament is ever intended as a joke event. Just some are more often used for fun goofing type play than others. Some events are more social and these are often fun events to attend 'for a laugh' and with a bit of a goofball team. For instance I class Skyball, the World Cup and Mardi Gras like this. Skyball is the only event where I have seen a 007 nelspot with a 114ci air system on it...


Originally posted by i-luv-my-rt
Me and my team are taking this tourney very serious and there is always great competition there.

Excellent. I wish you the best of luck. I may be attending at very short notice but am not holding my breath. If I do attend it will be for the social side and if I can get a game as part of a scratch team then all the better. It is a fantastic venue.


Originally posted by i-luv-my-rt
I did see a team go there last year with an all pump team and they got destroyed but all the teams that beat them had respect for them.

And that sometimes is what it's about. Some people enjoy the challenge and want to be a little different. Entering an event like this with pumps is just that, and in my opinion is very different than entering pro class with a rookie team. I've also seen pump teams at skyball win against all semi teams. I certainly saw one at Skyball 2000 that got the first flag pull against almost all teams that played them.


Originally posted by i-luv-my-rt
When you say take "pump e-mags" to skyball and laugh, all the teams will just be laughing back at how they totally crushed you. Hopefully you didnt mean it like that.

I meant we would have a laugh as we shot the heck out of the other teams :) I never feel being beaten is a laughing matter and woe fool you if you laugh at someone and think you will beat them just because of the equipment they are carrying. Don't rule people out just because they have pumps. I have a pump electro conversion for my Bushy and I bet on 'slam fire' I can shoot it just as fast or faster than you can shoot a normal semi. It would just look amusing for other teams when they see us all with pumps. We would be just as competitive as using normal semi's... My converion also allowed me to knock it back to semi anyway. So it may look like a pump and work like one over the chrono but would be a semi on the field. Perfectly legal I believe :) It's doing something just to be different. For your own and others amusement. Some people here understand what that is about. I play very seriously sometimes and very much for fun and social reasons at others. I always have fun either way. If I didn't I wouldn't play.

manike

[i-luv-my-rt]

Ok now i fully understand what Manike and Webbie are trying to say. I deleted my previous post b/c of this. I am sorry for my ignorance and well...lack of paying attention. I hope to see you guys at skyball.

P.S. Now look for me wearing a PINK proteus and hopefully a furry rabbit tall on my buzzom(you guys have turned me once again to the good side).

Thanks Guys!!!!

[Restola]

why dont all of the thousands of members get together and make hundreds of 5 man teams and flood all the nppl events. the events would then take weeks and weeks to finish. by the time it was over maybe some of the pro teams would have had to leave to do something else, and one of the AO teams might win.

[Maghog]

Best idea of this thread!!! Go Restola!!! Flood the NPPL!!!
Seriously though, shartley, I'm sorry, but this time you kind of reversed your opinion to make it sound like another opinion which reinforced the ones who have something to say about yours.
It just looks a little weird, that's all.

[Bailey]

Id love to put a wuppin on some pro arse.
Count me in if anything ever happens......

[blnk162]

I really think its a bad idea to just have a contest to determine who could play pro......I know id try out if there were tryouts and im from chicago home to AGD, and i was wondering....why would manny leave shock? No offense to an agd pro team but shock is the best pro team EVER hands down.....theres also a certain mentality to play pro, i mean i play 10 man nppl am b now and that eves wears on you.....

Theres also a certain mentality to playing PRO....i mean im a kid but ive seen a whole lot of nppl and major events, this year im playing 4 of the 5 nppls, i mean playing pro paintball is your life, look at every team they own something to do with paintball, it would be very hard to put together a non-laughing stock agd team, and if tom doesnt want to "buy" his players it will be very hard unless tom chooses to stick with guys from the chicago area or guys who will pay to travel every weekend to wherever practices would be held....ed poorman spends 70g's on avalanche a year.....do people in here REALLY have that commitment just cuz they like tom and agd guns? How many of you play every weekend, watch push 3 times a week, and read every forum every night...i know i do and i dont know if ill ever go pro...im not bragging AT ALL, but ive talked to guys on Shock, Fusion, and the Old Sec ironmen..this is what they do, some people are lawyers....doctors....housewifes for god sake....and then others are paintball players....

[Snooky]

If you are to put together a team tom make sure they show agd markers and refs with respect. I would love to see a team that didn't throw thier guns, swear, and argue with the refs. If u can do those thing the AGD team will be the best in supporting the sport. But now I would suggest u find talent that hasn't been discovered. I think not everyone would think an angel is the best guns if the pros didnt use them and won turneys doing it. When the jax warriors won with the emags im like wow maybe its the gun and thats what advertising is good for impressing customers.

[lonsch]

i mean i play 10 man nppl am b now and that eves wears on you

you have never played a NPPl event. let alone 10 man

manny is not leaving shock he said he would play for toms team if it was not a NPPL event

[Gunga]

One option that I don't recall seeing (and I'm not about to reread all those previous posts!) is to sponsor a novice team. Such a team, thrown together or not, wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) get wiped out by the opposition within 0.0532 seconds! :D Probably win a few games and have a respectable finish.

Sure, this might be 'aiming low', but it would avoid the 'embarrassment' of having the AGD team get whupped by a teams toting 'Cockers/Angels/whatever and the resulting 'AGD guns must suck' view that some of the people would undoubtedly develop. Also, it'd give the Mag family of guns exposure to relative newbies, hopefully before they are 'corrupted' by the hype and various uninformed (usually) opinions that the 'know it all' types love to spout, such as "I've never owned a Mag or used one, but I know it sucks."

Of course, that brings up what the definition of a 'novice' would be, for novice tourneys, if the NPPL even has such a thing. Would a novice be a player with fewer than X years of experience in paintball? Or a player with fewer than Y years of playing in tourneys? I, for example, have been playing paintball for 15+ years (yes I'm getting old), but have 0 tourney experience.

There was a novice tourney this fall at the Badlandz here in the Chicago area, but I don't know if it was NPPL 'approved' or not.

[Riotz]

Tom,

Have you given any thought to this? Just courious :) :) :)

[skipdogg]

this thread seems to have been exhausted. Well...... Any decisions on what AGD will do??

[DarkRipper]

I captained an internet team to WC2k and we did... well... poorly. I recruited NPPL players off the internet... I had excellent players, all around. However, individual skill didn't make up for playing against TEAMS.

We did have fun, though. Oh, we went in as Am B.

Team OAO/OTP. You can look us up on Warpig's Cup 2k coverage.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that it would be hard to do, pulling players that AREN'T 10 man or NPPL experienced. I took players that WERE, and did badly.
We did take out 5 of Image... :) Too bad the refs wiped a couple.

:(
DR

[SlipknotX556]

I would love to play on the team but its mostly about havin fun not what place u come in.

[RTProUser]

Hey I will play, I have a brand new RT Pro to show off in support of AGD.. E-mail me if you need another player jimmyrhunter@yahoo.com I also have another guy that will play.

[ChrisRT]

I would do it, what do you have to lose?

[MikeCouves]

Well maybe we could have a couple "lightly" sponered teams? Then we could have a big tent with a bunch of people playing for AGD. I would be a good front player...being about 5 feet tall!! Bwah haha, the little midget that could! Well I think it is a pretty good idea, but we would get slaughtered in the pro division. Absolutely slaughtered, lol.

IMO, we should go for it, and see what happens. I think it would be a great idea, and a whole pile of fun!

Contest eh? This wouldn't involve graphic editing or anything would it? Ain't my strongpoint :D...

[Rooster]

I have to admit I didn't read all 4 pages of replies. But from what I've read, I have two opinions. First, to buy a established pro team is going to be insanely expensive. Even full sponsorship for an Am A team is going to be alot, and the exposure won't be near as good. However, finnishing dead last at every contest doesn't really send a great public image of the equipment that team is using,

unless its done just right. I think AGD could really play up the "We are here for the common man" idea. I don't know if i'm overly sentimental or what, but I always like to root for the underdog. And this AGD team would be an underdog. But whats more is that it would be made of everyday people getting a chance to live out their dream. I think it would make an insanely loyal customer base even more so. But whats more it sends the message that AGD isn't about selling the most guns, making the most money, its about making its customers the happiest players on earth.

Plus the fastest way to get up to another level is to play the people at that higher level. AGD would be helping their customers be all that more competitive went they went back home to their home leagues and tournys. And thats were grassroots advertisement is all important.

[hitmanng]

I think this would be hellarious and a lot of fun. I think it would be good for the sport also as it would show what the pro's can do and what the rest are capable of. I think making sure the teams you played were cool about it would make a difference. They are expected to cream the team but ideally they should be polite off the field or the reports could kill the sport. I would be in for the fun if the opertunity arose.
Hitmanng
P.S. A few practices together would help a lot too.