So I kinda get whats goin on...

[mostpeople]

Regarding E-mags/X-mags but can someone spell it out plainly for me? Why arent they being produced anymore?

[neppo1345]

Regarding E-mags/X-mags but can someone spell it out plainly for me? Why arent they being produced anymore?

Long story short:

Smart Parts began sending C&D letters to other gun manufacturers producing electronically operated guns. Giving them three basic options: 1. Stop making your guns. 2. Keep making guns and pay us loyalties. or 3. Keep making guns, we sue you.

Tom saw what was happeneing and decided to halt production.

To my knowledge AGD was never given a formal C&D letter.

/in b4 "thats wrong"

[Rudz]

Long story short:

Smart Parts began sending C&D letters to other gun manufacturers producing electronically operated guns. Giving them three basic options: 1. Stop making your guns. 2. Keep making guns and pay us loyalties. or 3. Keep making guns, we sue you.

Tom saw what was happeneing and decided to halt production.

To my knowledge AGD was never given a formal C&D letter.

/in b4 "thats wrong"


I think he did get the letter, everyone did

[Papa_Smurf]

there is a little blurp on it on xmagworld.

[mostpeople]

Since the e-mag is so different that pneumatic solenoid operation most markers use how could they C&D AGD?

[angrysasquatch]

The patent was on any painball gun that used an electronic switch to fire the gun.

[craltal]

2. Keep making guns and pay us loyalties.



I think you mean "royalties", but I'm just being picky...

I believe the decision was made with the added fact that the profit margin wasn't very high on them to begin with so discontinuing wasn't seen as a major financial blow.

[mostpeople]

Interesting..

How did SP get a patent on something that they didnt invent? Or did they?

[McMahon]

I dont think it actually matters if they have the patent or not, all that really counts is that by threatening a lawsuit they may be able to make a few companies leave the market, and less competition is always a good thing, at least for the companies trying to make money.

[mostpeople]

So this all begs the question..

Would it be possible to (like what Rogue did for sluggos) to do a limited run of brand new X-mags?


or is that a pipe dream?

[craltal]

the patent issue is for the electronics not the bodies.

[Mechanic79]

this suggests, "Majority rules, but the majority is usually not right!"

Who first invented "eating"?

[SR_matt]

the patent was for a paintball marker that the cycle was started by an electronic tripping means.

you dont have to be the first to invent it you jstu have to be the first to patent it, but if you can prove proof of concept before the person with the paten's proof of concept you can at least contest it well. hence one of the reasons the SP stuff has gotten mostly over ruled (a long with, IIRC, the fact it was to broad of a concept and that the original proof of concept was split between 3 individuals/companies at the time of the court cases)

-matt

[custar]

Sorry Matt, but SP hasn't lost a case yet on the merits of the electro patents. Then again, the only case that went to a judicial decision was between SP and WDP over ownership of the patent, not the validity. SP lost, so WDP has partial ownership of the blasted patent. No other company has taken the SP electro patent dispute all the way to a decision on the merits. I hoped KEE would in the last such lawsuit filed by SP, but KEE and SP reached an agreement to resolve their fight. Reading between the lines, it looks like KEE received enough concessions from SP to make it unattractive to incur the costs of to-the-bitter-end litigation.

custar

[SR_matt]

im pretty sure that because of the fact that wdp had partial ownership all the C+D orders were voided since both parties would have to agree to want it, or at least at this point they have to both agree to it. i remember a big thing about the ordres being null and void but it was a while ago

-matt

[wetwrks]

im pretty sure that because of the fact that wdp had partial ownership all the C+D orders were voided since both parties would have to agree to want it, or at least at this point they have to both agree to it. i remember a big thing about the ordres being null and void but it was a while ago

-matt

While that may be true (that the C&D were voided), it still doesn't change the fact that the patent is owned by someone (in this case SP & WDP) and if another company ignores that ownership and produces a similar product without permission they can be sued. Now the owners may chose not to persue it, but that is probably unlikely.

[SR_matt]

yes and no, many things are patented and not enforced just so that they can be used and improved upon more easily by people who just want to better an industry. with the way the ownership is now of that patent wdp and sp have to both enforce it as one which is had to do. IIRC WDP didnt care much about enforcing it they just wanted to make sure that they didnt get C&D when they had part of the patent and now they really dont care much.

i thought i remembered Tom patented the HPA concept for paintball (i could be wrong here ) but that has not been enforced

-matt

[custar]

yes and no, many things are patented and not enforced just so that they can be used and improved upon more easily by people who just want to better an industry. with the way the ownership is now of that patent wdp and sp have to both enforce it as one which is had to do. IIRC WDP didnt care much about enforcing it they just wanted to make sure that they didnt get C&D when they had part of the patent and now they really dont care much.

i thought i remembered Tom patented the HPA concept for paintball (i could be wrong here ) but that has not been enforced

-matt

You raised some very interesting points to which I have not paid much attention until you raised them. After the decision in the SP vs. WDP lawsuit, SP, WDP, and Dye reached some agreements which allowed SP to make spool valve markers without further legal action (Dye had the spool valve patent), SP and Dye can use a programmable board (WDP's patent), and Dye can make electro markers. I wonder if part of the agreement between SP and WDP allowed SP to enforce WDP's portion of the of the jointly-owned patent. I doubt we will ever truly know since most such agreements have strict non-disclosure clauses, but that would be an explanation for SP being able to sue KEE by itself over KEE"s alleged violation of SP's blasted electro patent. Interesting stuff.

custar

[craltal]

You raised some very interesting points to which I have not paid much attention until you raised them. After the decision in the SP vs. WDP lawsuit, SP, WDP, and Dye reached some agreements which allowed SP to make spool valve markers without further legal action (Dye had the spool valve patent), SP and Dye can use a programmable board (WDP's patent), and Dye can make electro markers. I wonder if part of the agreement between SP and WDP allowed SP to enforce WDP's portion of the of the jointly-owned patent. I doubt we will ever truly know since most such agreements have strict non-disclosure clauses, but that would be an explanation for SP being able to sue KEE by itself over KEE"s alleged violation of SP's blasted electro patent. Interesting stuff.

custar

In regards to the KEE suit, WDP wouldn't need to be involved in a suit over the patent they have partial ownership of since either can enforce their patent against infringement

[trevorjk]

i was under the impression that the X-Mag was discontinued due to cost of manufacturing since AGD-E raised prices on the body , ect ect. the E-mag story stands to be about right

[kruger]

That is true, but to build another one, you have to deal with the patent issues.

[LK-13]

so what about Tippmann? don't they still make e-grips for the A5?
what about http://www.goapeonline.com/ they still make programmable boards, and sell solenoids/micro switches and modify e-grips.

both Kingmann and PMI both still seem to be making e-triggers,
am i missing something?
the market seems to have as many electros as it ever did so are they all bowing to SP or are they rebelling till they get served notice?

if i build an e-trigger myself for my own gun will i get a C&D?
what if i start customizing guns?