Inside Edition picks up on Contois Tragedy

[Aggravated Assault]

Wife Saw the story on TV yesterday.

Of course its on the front page of Inside edition's website too. Here's the link to the story that's been posted about many times already....

http://www.insideedition.com/ourstories/reports/story.aspx?storyid=989

This just aint going away anytime soon.

[RogueFactor]

8 Million goes a long way in publicizing this story. And the husband it seems plans to spend every penny doing so.

Its this attitude from the players and the manufacturers that motivates him to continue pushing--->"Yeah yeah, read it, got it, so what, be safe, heard ya, getting tired of reading this over and over again".

You are right, he is not going away anytime soon. Just wait until someone gets seriously hurt or dies from a ramping marker. Then all hell is going to break loose.

Good for him. Its about damn time that somebody push the issue of safety in the right direction.

[OneUp]

8 Million goes a long way in publicizing this story. And the husband it seems plans to spend every penny doing so.

Its this attitude from the players and the manufacturers that motivates him to continue pushing--->"Yeah yeah, read it, got it, so what, be safe, heard ya, getting tired of reading this over and over again".

You are right, he is not going away anytime soon. Just wait until someone gets seriously hurt or dies from a ramping marker. Then all hell is going to break loose.

Good for him. Its about damn time that somebody push the issue of safety in the right direction.

agreed.

[Mind'sEye]

When you consider the lives that have been ruined by this tragedy, especially the young man who feels responsible for his mother's death, the father seems to show remarkable reason and restraint. He doesn't appear to be on a ban paintball campaign or filled with the blind anger that such a loss can bring. I'd like to shake his hand. He's a good role model for his kids. The $8 million will be well spent and we ought to be willing to do our part at our local fields to make safety the #1 priority.

[warbeak2099]

Just wait until someone gets seriously hurt or dies from a ramping marker. Then all hell is going to break loose..

Are you serious. Being a little melodramatic about ramping again?

[RogueFactor]

Are you serious. Being a little melodramatic about ramping again?

Yep, Im serious. Everything is melodramatic until it happens. I wonder if the kids of Contois think safety concerns are melodramatic?

[CKY_Alliance]

Are you serious. Being a little melodramatic about ramping again?

Thank you.



I guess Rogue should stop making frames that people can put a ramping board in, or frames that are used on a gun that is capable of bouncing as fast as ramping guns.

[RogueFactor]

Thank you.

I guess Rogue should stop making frames that people can put a ramping board in, or frames that are used on a gun that is capable of bouncing as fast as ramping guns.

Sorry Charlie, that turd aint going to float. There is absolutely no similarity between a mechanical frame, and a ramping marker that comes direct from the factory.

#1--- I dont make frames that people can put a ramping board in.
#2--- The frame doesnt make the marker bounce, the valve and on/off do.

[Aggravated Assault]

I just thought it was interesting it's hitting the TV news programs. I would have to say it ups the ante a little bit with the paintball industry.

Is it likely somebody is gonna die from a runaway/ramping marker? I doubt it... but really, anything could happen. I mean, if a baseball can hit a kid in the chest and kill (it's happened), it could happen.

I don't think its a good idea to just dismiss the possibility..."not likely" dosen't mean zero chance.

I think it all comes back to the subject of standards in the industry.

[warbeak2099]

Yep, Im serious. Everything is melodramatic until it happens. I wonder if the kids of Contois think safety concerns are melodramatic?

I have been advocating that kiddies stay away from their pin valves for a very long time. There is actually a reason to be melodramatic about that. But ramping is not going to kill anyone. If not handled correctly it could hurt someone yes. But let me repeat that first part of the sentence, IF NOT HANDLED CORRECTLY. You make it like ramping is going to kill people no matter what.

[RogueFactor]

I have been advocating that kiddies stay away from their pin valves for a very long time. There is actually a reason to be melodramatic about that.
We have a safety advocate! Good.

Add to the list of things to advocate that manufacturers make it fully known of dangerous design flaws!!!


The family's pain was made worse after discovering the industry had known for years about a design flaw in the valve connecting the canister to the gun.


But ramping is not going to kill anyone.

How much money do you have to guarantee that?

The doctors that testified before the ASTM commission disagree with you. Their testimony as medical experts, and others, are what base the foundation for the ASTM safety guidelines of no more than 1-shot per pull/release.

What expertise do you have to supercede their medical expertise on this matter?

I will also add this...


It is not my intent to set out on a crusade to disband the sport of paintball. Nor is it my intent to regulate this sport to such a degree that it takes away from its expected enjoyment. I am driven by the compelling compassion for human life to make sure that anyone who chooses to participate in this sport has the opportunity to be informed of the risks and dangers associated not only with the game, but with paintball equipment. If this is done through legislative changes, better product warnings, web sites, safer field standards, the media and increased public awareness, then my efforts to save just one life will help to heal my family’s wounds.

...People have a right to know everything that the manufacturers know about hidden dangers and the risks associated with their products. If a dangerous product is identified, then I believe that the manufacturer has a duty to inform the public and recall the product. ...

[CKY_Alliance]

Sorry Charlie, that turd aint going to float. There is absolutely no similarity between a mechanical frame, and a ramping marker that comes direct from the factory.

#1--- I dont make frames that people can put a ramping board in.
#2--- The frame doesnt make the marker bounce, the valve and on/off do.



So consumers who purchase your frame can't mod it so that there gun operates from a ramping board, that is mountable because of your frame. I believe it has been done a few times.




Ok, so you know that Automags, the marker you make aftermarket parts for, is capable of bouncing and is very capable of having runaway bounce (and is generally set up to bounce, which is like uncontrolable ramp) but yet you still make parts for them...even if it is the valve you are still aware of the danger, yet you still produce parts.



I don't blame you for making parts for them,seeing how you are one of few, but don't rant about how dangerous ramping is and then make parts for a marker that does the (pratically) same thing, but less controlable. There for in your book just as dangerous.

[RogueFactor]

More turds that dont float....time to FLUSH!


So consumers who purchase your frame can't mod it so that there gun operates from a ramping board, that is mountable because of your frame. I believe it has been done a few times.

#1--- Modifying a part to work in a way not originally intended is the best you got? So, again...there is no similarity between a mechanical frame that cant be used for ramping without being CHANGED and a ramping marker that comes direct from the factory to ramp.


Ok, so you know that Automags, the marker you make aftermarket parts for, is capable of bouncing and is very capable of having runaway bounce (and is generally set up to bounce, which is like uncontrolable ramp) but yet you still make parts for them...even if it is the valve you are still aware of the danger, yet you still produce parts.

#1--Yep, I still produce parts. None of which induce bounce. And for a marker that isnt intended by the manufacturer to bounce. Still no similarity. What else ya got?


I don't blame you for making parts for them,seeing how you are one of few, but don't rant about how dangerous ramping is and then make parts for a marker that does the (pratically) same thing, but less controlable. There for in your book just as dangerous.

I surely will rant.

#1---AGD doesnt sell bouncing markers direct from the factory. AGD sells markers that users must change or modify themselves to make bounce.
#2---I dont make parts that induce bounce.
#3---I dont believe in bounce.
#4---I dont condone bounce.
#5---I dont advise on how to modify parts to make a marker bounce.

So, yet again there is no similarity between a mechanical marker that must be modified to bounce and a direct-from-the-factory ramping marker thats been programmed to shoot 15 bps.

What else ya got?

[Piranti]

I am well aware of the dangers of compressed gas cylinders, as is most of the paintball community. I am not aware of the exact particulars as to why the cylinder rocketed, however this seems to be more of a 'USER ERROR' than anything else, just like the HPA Explosion incident where the guys hand was burned seriously. Everything and anything handled improperly is dangerous, yes even a spork or spoon. Personally I do not think NPS was responsible as most if not all tanks used today have the burst disks, which from reading the incident does not seem that even if the tank had or didn't have one the incident could still have happened. There are manufacturers of HPA regulators which are completely safe even from most idiots. But due to several factors within our community (everybody sueing everybody else for patents, yes some of these are safety features) it makes it hard for all to incorporate these features into ALL of the equipment used. I think the person who was mishandling the tank, and possibly the field were more responsible for the death and injuries than anyone else. Guns don't kill people, people do.

Is this incident tragic, most definitely. Is our equipment safe to use, yes if done properly and all safety measures taken.

True moral of the story, take care of your equipment and don't screw around with it.

[CKY_Alliance]

Rogue there is no way around it, you make and sell parts for a gun that is known for it's capability to bounce. It's been banned from tournaments because of it's capability to bounce, and what is bounce? Might as well be uncontroulable ramp.

[RogueFactor]

Rogue there is no way around it, you make and sell parts for a gun that is known for it's capability to bounce. It's been banned from tournaments because of it's capability to bounce, and what is bounce? Might as well be uncontroulable ramp.

CKYAlliance:

There is no way around it. There is no similarity between a mechanical marker that requires user modification to make it work different than intended and an electro marker that comes ready from the factory to ramp. Clearly AGD doesnt intend for the Mag to bounce, and clearly ramping markers come from the factory set-up to do so.

And so this is clear....bounce and ramp are the same thing. Anything that is more than 1-shot per pull is the same--no matter what its called(bounce, full-auto, runaway, ramp, auto-response, etc etc). So I agree. I dont like, condone, or advise on how to MODIFY a marker to make it bounce. And I dont make parts that induce bounce.

And FYI--- The Mag in bouncing mode is not banned from the CFOA tournaments. The CFOA had the wisdom to see the hypocrisy of other tournament series that ban bounce, and not ramp.

[Dark Side]

When you consider the lives that have been ruined by this tragedy, especially the young man who feels responsible for his mother's death, the father seems to show remarkable reason and restraint. He doesn't appear to be on a ban paintball campaign or filled with the blind anger that such a loss can bring. I'd like to shake his hand. He's a good role model for his kids. The $8 million will be well spent and we ought to be willing to do our part at our local fields to make safety the #1 priority.

QFT!

:hail:


So consumers who purchase your frame can't mod it so that there gun operates from a ramping board, that is mountable because of your frame. I believe it has been done a few times.

So his frames should be solid blocks of billet?





Ok, so you know that Automags, the marker you make aftermarket parts for, is capable of bouncing and is very capable of having runaway bounce (and is generally set up to bounce, which is like uncontrolable ramp) but yet you still make parts for them...even if it is the valve you are still aware of the danger, yet you still produce parts.

I don't blame you for making parts for them,seeing how you are one of few, but don't rant about how dangerous ramping is and then make parts for a marker that does the (pratically) same thing, but less controlable. There for in your book just as dangerous.

Is there an adequate solution to stop Mags from having uncontrolled bounce? Let's find it and push on from that. Blaming someone for making parts for Mags (since it will undoubtedly make the inevitable chance that someone will be hurt by bounce far more likely) no matter who it is (whether they think I'm a puppet or not) is completely asinine. Rogue doesn't condone bounce, or electros for that matter (trust me; I've spent plenty of hours on the phone speaking to him about the game and the parts he designs/builds). He builds parts, whoopee. Anything in this game is inherently dangerous no matter how many people believe otherwise. It could be said that all of us condone its dangers because we are here. Let the guy push for safety. After all; what you do with the final product is your own doing. The final consequences of those actions are yours and yours alone. No matter what happens.

[Chronobreak]

KEE is very serious about making sure this does not happen again, or doing the best they can.

In my latest order i recieved two nice large poster detailing proper filling procedure, weighing tanks to be sure they are not overfilled, as well as making sure there is a Burst disk installed.

also a nice little diagram just like on all the new tanks of what a seperated valve looks like and a large warning.

I think a pre emptive one for HPA would also not be a bad idea.

and while were at it one for goggles that specifys goggles in all field areas, checking for possible mask failures and that it is an ASTM certified goggle.

and yes im serious, i say that because alot of my post are sarcastic but i really think this is a good move on their part

--il be posting these on the wall by the fills tation at work

[Zone Drifter]

Freak accidents happen, It just is devastating that it happened to someone who wasn't even playing. It's hard to warn players about dangers when they choose not to listen, and it's hard to educate a new kid on the dangers of compressed air when all he wants to do it go shoot people. Then again, it's not just kids. I've known people to disregard the limits of things like quick disconnects and fittings, and it's a miracle that it didnt blow up in their face.

[SCpoloRicker]

I wholeheartedly agree with RF in regards to the lack of proper safety standards in paintball; tank safety, barrel obstruction safety, mask standards, and multiple concussions in a short period are all very valid issues.

/washes self off...

[Automagsam]

I'm sorry these parents were morons. What are they doing getting a ten year old kid a paintball gun, I'm sorry but that is called irresponsible parenting. A ten year old SHOULD NOT be playing with such an object, and the parents should have half the ounce of bains to not get him a gun. I don't even think 13 and 14 year olds can be trusted with guns the way the world is now, but 10 year olds should never be given such an item, this just irks me really bad, cause then like this case an "accident" happens the parents get mad and make a big deal about it, yes don't get me wrong it is sad, but this was just plain ignoran on the parents side. -Sam

[SCpoloRicker]

I don't even think 13 and 14 year olds can be trusted with guns the way the world is now, but 10 year olds should never be given such an item, this just irks me really bad, cause then like this case an "accident" happens the parents get mad and make a big deal about it, yes don't get me wrong it is sad, but this was just plain ignoran on the parents side. -Sam

We should figure out some way to legislate the possesion of these 'guns' you speak of.

/Methinks this will go over very, very well.

[Beemer]

I wholeheartedly agree with RF in regards to the lack of proper safety standards in paintball; tank safety, barrel obstruction safety, mask standards, and multiple concussions in a short period are all very valid issues.

/washes self off...

Oh really. :ninja: Proper safety standards. They did THAT with ASTM but thats just voluntary. :eek: Paintball got into the ASTM just to keep the CPSC off their backs.

Lets see in two different threads we got four dings.

1. ASTM [JJ brookshire}
2. CPSC [Scott J. Wolfson, a spokesman]
3. Painball expert. [Jerry]
4. Victims husband who made a promise.

Much politics nobody pays attention to.

[ThePixelGuru]

In my latest order i recieved two nice large poster detailing proper filling procedure, weighing tanks to be sure they are not overfilled, as well as making sure there is a Burst disk installed.
Wow, that's a great way to generate a lot of awareness. Imaging if PBGear.com and other big retailers started doing that. Safety posters everywhere = more time thinking about safety. Hope other companies pick up on that, that's sweet.


I'm sorry these parents were morons. What are they doing getting a ten year old kid a paintball gun, I'm sorry but that is called irresponsible parenting. A ten year old SHOULD NOT be playing with such an object, and the parents should have half the ounce of bains to not get him a gun. I don't even think 13 and 14 year olds can be trusted with guns the way the world is now, but 10 year olds should never be given such an item, this just irks me really bad, cause then like this case an "accident" happens the parents get mad and make a big deal about it, yes don't get me wrong it is sad, but this was just plain ignoran on the parents side. -Sam
...Are you serious? Parents brought their kid to a paintball field, mother was killed by an unsafe tank. Please tell me a) how the kid's age had anything at all to do with that and b) how a 10 year old child with no relation to an unsafe tank means "blame the parents"?