Tac-One paint blender

[Anjin3515]

Saturday, Windy City Classic 8hr scenario.....day just full of EVERYTHING going wrong.

First my Q-Loader turned into just a Q as it wouldn't load anything!
Then I had to find a way to feed my warp right Tac-One. I did..more on that in a moment.

During play the Tac was chopping like mad. It was also shooting some wicked curve balls (where was the Tac when the Cubs were in the NLDS). Id get a shot or two off, almost non of them being even close to straight, then Id shoot out a nice spray of paint and shell...rinse and repeat.

I really need peoples help in debugging this so I can get this baby up running right, there are many factors....but I need all of your help to figure it out....

1) BARREL: I'm pretty sure it was not the barrel....I used both a Palmer Brass and the stock J&J...both were curving balls...almost no straight shots.Both had the same results of a few shots and then a spray of paint and shell.

2) PAINT: Interesting enough my wifes PMR shot fine, no chops and was shooting straight. Another friend has the same PMR and he had no chops, but was shooting curves. The weather was mid 60's. Paint was Marbalizer....it seemed a little thin shelled...asking around some people were having chop issues others not.....but I would expect that result with that many players.

3) MY "WARP FEED SOLUTION" : Here is my best guess for why things were so messed up. As the Q-Loader was not working I had to take a 45* elbow and a agitated hopper and attach them to the warp right feed neck. It did feed into the gun. However, as this is NOT how you are supposed to use a warp. My thinking is that while it did feed the balls into the gun...maybe it was doing so incorrectly, thus leading to chops and curves. Anyone care to speculate how using a set up like this might cause such problems?? It does seem like the most likely candidate....but from a technical standpoint I don't know how it would cause these problems?

4) LVL 10 : Could this be a Lvl 10 problem? I am still using the LVL 10 factory settings....yet even if not set just right would it cause so many balls to chop....and would a mis-tuned LVL 10 in anyway affect the fight patch of a ball?


OTHER THINGS I CAN THINK OF :
Velocity? Was chronoing at 270 to 285...dont think that was the problem.

Spring? I am still using the factory spring (red one?)

The universe just hates me? Last year when I played in this same scenario game my A-5 was a blender. One of the main reasons I got a new marker was to avoid this problem again at this event. I will say that last year EVERYONE seemed to be having chopping issues and most people thought it was the paint. This year, it was far more random, there was no general consensus that the paint was an issue. Maybe after all my research, waiting, wanting and finding the Automag...the universe just wanted to mess with me and caused all my problems.


Thoughts? Ideas? Help.....please.

I got the Mag for its sterling reputation on not being a ball chopper.....and yet here I was again blending paint. I do think it was the jury-rig way I set up to feed the thing...but Id like to hear what you, the Mag experts think.

Thanks. :confused: :cry:

[mostpeople]

If you were using simply an agitated hopper, and not a force fed hopper on a 45 degree then I would speculate that was your problem. I reccomend, if you are going to ditch the Q-loader, to get a warp, or a vert feed mainbody and use a regular hopper, like a haloB or something..

The lvl 10 is an amazing system, but it wont prevent all ball chops. Simply not possible, I tune my lvl ten all day long, and still chop tourney grade paint on a haloB. I put my finger in there and it feels very light, I would stick my tongue in there without worry.. thats how well I have it tuned. Yet it will still chop paint.. not often mind you, but still every once in a while at high ROF. Also, after a ball is chipped in the breech - all bets are off. You will not get another straight shot reliably until you clean it out.

Now your paint, at 45 degrees with an agitated hopper wont feed consistantly.. this was most likely your problem.

[Anjin3515]

thanks.

You think a something in the breech was causing the curves?

[Geronimo7]

trying to use a hopper on a warp body was probably a bad idea to start with anyway. oh well
not much else you coulda done there. to try and figure out your chopping problem read up on the q manual (maybe), there are not to many other options to feed a warp body. i would recomend trying to find someone with a warp feed or vert feed body so you can do some testing and try to eliminate some particular problems.

[mostpeople]

gravity feed hoppers use veritcal feed (drop ball into breech from above) systems for a reason, trying to rely on gravity to 'force' a ball into the breech of a warp'd mainbody is probably what gave you so many chops.

Had it been a force-feed hopper there might have been less issues.

[Anjin3515]

I wonder if 1 or 2 balls feed and a half ball feed and thats the one the got chopped?

I knew it wasnt a good setup...it was make due. I do hope that it was the problem....as then its easy to fix....just dont do that again :)

[Anjin3515]

sorry...bump for more help....

[JRingold]

After you got the Q working again, does it still have the same problem?

Sounds like you either need to buy a backup Q-loader or a warp feed. Sounds crazy, but I have a backup Halo and a backup eVLution to the backup Halo. One shouldn't need two backups for a $120+ loader.

[Anjin3515]

After you got the Q working again, does it still have the same problem?

Sounds like you either need to buy a backup Q-loader or a warp feed. Sounds crazy, but I have a backup Halo and a backup eVLution to the backup Halo. One shouldn't need two backups for a $120+ loader.

Still have to get the Q working.....

[Madmox]

I don't buy the loader idea. Maybe if the balls were breaking in the breech from it not loading fast enough. but i can feed my RT pro with a revvy no problem. And if there is no break in the breech the loader has no way to cause the balls to curve. I bet there is some residue or something in the breech. Or secondly could the barrel have been wet inside that'll cause and break or curve in a real hurry. Just more thoughts. The way to tell if it is the loader is if your getting breech cuts or it isn't feeding at all. If they are not breech cuts and the balls ARE feeding then the loader isn't your problem. Gonna have to look elsewhere maybe in an overly aggressive detent? Or a nicked or scratched breech. OR maybe the bolt has Chingaderos lodged in it causing the air to flow unevenly.


Madmox

[MeÐiCX]

You were getting chops because balls were not loading correctly w/ the warp & 45* elbow setup. There's something weird about that Marb paint CPX uses. It's thinner shelled than normal. Last year ALOT of ppl were blending paint. It was bad!

My guess w/ the inaccurate shots was due to the breaks. Mags, if setup right, are consistent and one of the top markers for accuracy. Does your LvL 10 pass the dollar bill test? I have found the gold spring to be most consistent. The gold spring will have to be used to get velocities under 260 FPS.

QLoader? Try unscrewing the warp feedneck from the marker. Attach the direct mount and QLoader. Load a dozen balls in a pod and load the pod in the socket. Do they come flying out of the feedneck?? You said you can manually pass balls through the socket and feedneck into the breech. Its possible, if thats is true, you pre-wound the QPods wrong.

[Russ]

You need to tune the Level X (LX) as well. A tuned LX won't chop, it will just "chuff" when it hits a partially fit ball

[Anjin3515]

How would I know if it passed the dollar test.
I tried this today...

Put bill in through feedneck
Pull trigger
Gun fires and gets "stuck" in place...pinning the dollar...if that makes sense....

[Geronimo7]

sounds like bolt stick. use the largerst carrier that doesn't leak
what carrier is in in now.
and remember while changing carriers always use the same oring

[MeÐiCX]

Dollar bill test - loosely roll a bill the long way. Remove your barrel and stick the rolled bill down the breech up to the feedneck. Fire, bolt should stop and reset.

[Anjin3515]

sounds like bolt stick. use the largerst carrier that doesn't leak
what carrier is in in now.
and remember while changing carriers always use the same oring

Not sure...have yet to open it up...whatever came from the factory.....

So does "bolt stick"= tune lvl10?

[Geronimo7]

ya, bolt stick = to tight of carrier

you also find out wich carrier is in in by seeing wich one is not in the bag o parts

[Anjin3515]

ya, bolt stick = to tight of carrier

you also find out wich carrier is in in by seeing wich one is not in the bag o parts

that would be using intelligence and forethought ...nether which i have :)

[Geronimo7]

another easy test,

take your valve out and take the pull the level 10 bolt off. how hard do you have to push to get the bolt back on? pretty hard, not to hard or it just fall right in.
you want somewhere between not to hard and falls right in ;)

[aznmarkofdafiji]

Here's another test to find carrier size, I this from reading on the forums(from Tunaman):
Keep in mind, you always use the same O-ring that goes inside the carrier

1. Lay down all you carriers from smallest to largest(if you don't know what's small/large there is a list on the CD)
2. Take the largest carrier and insert the O-ring into it-The O-ring is placed on the flat part.
3. Now, O-ring side first, slide the carrier onto the superbolt(the guy that had the spring wrapped around him)
4. Hold onto the carrier only.
5. If the bolt does not slide off by it's own weight, you have the right carrier size. If the bolt slides off by it's own weight, you need to go down a carrier size and repeat steps 3-5.


When I got my tac-one from the factory, it didn't leak, but it didn't reset very well from the squeegee test. I found out they had installed the SMALLEST carrier on mine with 3 shims making the carrier slide really hard on the bolt. What you want is the BIGGEST carrier that doesn't leak, hence you do this test.(please correct me if I'm wrong)


Tuning really isn't that bad, I went through the whole process for the 1st time in like an hour.

If you haven't gotten to tuning yet, HIGHLY suggest you get a GOOD dental pick. Not the Walmart one's, those bend easily thus making it longer to get the carrier out of the valve....

Have tuning your mag Anjin :)

[Anjin3515]

Q-Loader test update:

Loaded a pod full.
Put into mounting socket...with direct feed clamo on the mounting socket
turned and locked pod into place
about 15 or so balls come flying out...then..stop...nothing
un mount pod (2 balls drop out of pod when i do this)
re mount pod....nothing...ball seems stuck at the mouth of the mounting socket/pod
shake pod...1 ball comes through...then nothing
shake, tap pod....nothing

So thats where I am at....not sure what it means.....

[JRingold]

Just a thought, when's the last time you gave the marker a good lube job?

I've found that a dry marker shoots much different than one that is properly lubricated.

When it breaks paint, where do you have paint in the marker? Is it just in the barrel, or up in the breech?

[Anjin3515]

Took my Tac to local shop to get the LVL10 tuned. The guy there has a really good knowledge of mags....and to be honest I dont trust myself tuning it :)

Now the big question is ditch the Q and get a center feed body....or try to carry on and figure the Q out.

[mostpeople]

Took my Tac to local shop to get the LVL10 tuned. The guy there has a really good knowledge of mags....and to be honest I dont trust myself tuning it :)

Now the big question is ditch the Q and get a center feed body....or try to carry on and figure the Q out.


I think you know the answer to that question..

[Anjin3515]

I think you know the answer to that question..


my heart says one thing...my practical side that spent the $$$$ for the Q says something else

[Russ]

Took my Tac to local shop to get the LVL10 tuned. The guy there has a really good knowledge of mags....and to be honest I dont trust myself tuning it :)


Hate to say it, son, but if you're going to own Mags, it is PARAMOUNT that you learn to tune them

If you don't figure the guns out for yourself, you'll have many, many bad days of paintball ahead of you.

[Anjin3515]

Hate to say it, son, but if you're going to own Mags, it is PARAMOUNT that you learn to tune them

If you don't figure the guns out for yourself, you'll have many, many bad days of paintball ahead of you.


I was under the impression that once the LVL10 was tuned it really doesn't need to be messed with. Im not trying to be snarky here...but what do you mean by "many bad days of paintball ahead of you." ?

[mostpeople]

Hes right, you need to learn to tune it yourself - its really not hard.

If you dont, sometimes temperature or ther miscelaneous factors can affect the lvl 10.. and if that happens you need to be able to retune it.

[Anjin3515]

Hes right, you need to learn to tune it yourself - its really not hard.

If you dont, sometimes temperature or ther miscelaneous factors can affect the lvl 10.. and if that happens you need to be able to retune it.

Thanks for the clarification mostpeople.

I will try to get the ban on me touching any sort of tool or working on anything mechanical or electric lifted. Right now I am banned in 34 states from ever touching a tool...funny they still let me play with scissors :)

In honesty I am just dreadful at taking things apart and getting them back together again....and over the years have used my 6 brothers as my crutch in this area.

[Spider-TW]

Hate to say it, son, but if you're going to own Mags, it is PARAMOUNT that you learn to tune them

If you don't figure the guns out for yourself, you'll have many, many bad days of paintball ahead of you.
The other side of that is that there are no markers that will not need service at some point.

If you keep a couple of vikings, borgs, or egos around and have someone work on them, you should be able to play reliably without having to work on them. There is market of used sub-$400 markers that kids get and sell after they stop working, so that is a possibility (just keep buying cheap markers).

That's the best part of a mag though. It will last much longer than it will take you to learn how to fix it.

[Geronimo7]

I will try to get the ban on me touching any sort of tool or working on anything mechanical or electric lifted. Right now I am banned in 34 states from ever touching a tool...funny they still let me play with scissors

The only "tool" required for working on your level 10 are things you already use ;)
1- allen key for adjusting velocity
2- field strip screw

Then its just a matter of reading the # of lines on the carrier. It really is quite simple

[Anjin3515]

sooner or later I will learn it. But with all the troubles I have been having...mainly because of the Q loader...I wanted this done right so I can cut it out of the equation.