More Smart Parts Patent Applications

[mostpeople]

Paintball gun having a pneumatic firing valve (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=%22smart+parts%22.AS.&OS=AN/"smart+parts")
BOLT FOR PNEUMATIC PAINTBALL GUN (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=%22smart+parts%22.AS.&OS=AN/"smart+parts")
BOLT ASSEMBLY AND FIRING VALVE (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=3&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=%22smart+parts%22.AS.&OS=AN/"smart+parts")

Anyone see this?

[Ninjeff]

:cry:

[maniacmechanic]

the more I see the more sp suc's

[BangStik]

Edit.......Dont post if you have to swear

[mostpeople]

Bump for the evening crew

[Freebird]

cant AGD fight this?

[Automagsam]

cant AGD fight this?
There really is not a whole lot AGD can do in this situation.

[mostpeople]

There really is not a whole lot AGD can do in this situation.


lack of $ was the reason they didnt fight in the first place, and they were in a much better position to do so then I would assume than they are now.

[GraveDiggersUnion]

the more I see the more sp suc's
i'm starting to feel the same way :mad:

[brownimusprime]

After purchasing a 98 Custom in 2004 and having 3 close friends purchase Wal-Mart specials so we could blast each other in the bush, we've become regular paintball junkies.

As time went on we would collectively upgrade, one of them simply refusing to leave the Tippmann stable (he uses an X-7 for Speedball...and he's actually not bad with it.) - we naturally bought into the hype of the fancy electros.

I settled on a DM5, the others on a Nerve, SP-8 (still too bloody fat for Speedball) and the aforementioned Tippmann. I managed to demolish the DM-5 after attempting to set/clean it...I'm not a very patient man - and apparently have anger issues. ;)

JR's SP-8 has blown two noids - one of which came with his Virtue (the other was stock). The Nerve is a mess - I'll have to get a picture of it's ghetto-fabulousness, it's in indescribably comical condition. As a result of this and explaining the situation with Smart Parts' various litigations, we've all opted for a Smart Parts ban amongst us. We are in the process of replacing the Markers, Max-Flos, Barrels - the works - but I figured we could do better.

I've been steadily attracting more and more people to the sport - they always start as a rental - but as soon as they play...they get the fever, and the only prescription is more paintball. They'll buy into the game wholesale, and guess who they ask for equipment recommendations?

I explain the importance of quality and performance to every newcomer, and the problems we've had with Smart Parts gear. Thus far, no one has given SP a dime - and I'll see to it that continues for every new player we reel in.

It's not much, but if every new player comes to equate SP as the glorified paintball Wally World it's becoming, who knows.

I've replaced my Promaster with an RT ULE (in the mail, woo!) and although I have nothing but positive comments for ICD, I know what I want in my marker, and they simply don't offer it. Come December, we'll see how the Mag fares in my rookie tourny.

Cheers! :)

[GraveDiggersUnion]

After purchasing a 98 Custom in 2004 and having 3 close friends purchase Wal-Mart specials so we could blast each other in the bush, we've become regular paintball junkies.

As time went on we would collectively upgrade, one of them simply refusing to leave the Tippmann stable (he uses an X-7 for Speedball...and he's actually not bad with it.) - we naturally bought into the hype of the fancy electros.

I settled on a DM5, the others on a Nerve, SP-8 (still too bloody fat for Speedball) and the aforementioned Tippmann. I managed to demolish the DM-5 after attempting to set/clean it...I'm not a very patient man - and apparently have anger issues. ;)

JR's SP-8 has blown two noids - one of which came with his Virtue (the other was stock). The Nerve is a mess - I'll have to get a picture of it's ghetto-fabulousness, it's in indescribably comical condition. As a result of this and explaining the situation with Smart Parts' various litigations, we've all opted for a Smart Parts ban amongst us. We are in the process of replacing the Markers, Max-Flos, Barrels - the works - but I figured we could do better.

I've been steadily attracting more and more people to the sport - they always start as a rental - but as soon as they play...they get the fever, and the only prescription is more paintball. They'll buy into the game wholesale, and guess who they ask for equipment recommendations?

I explain the importance of quality and performance to every newcomer, and the problems we've had with Smart Parts gear. Thus far, no one has given SP a dime - and I'll see to it that continues for every new player we reel in.

It's not much, but if every new player comes to equate SP as the glorified paintball Wally World it's becoming, who knows.

I've replaced my Promaster with an RT ULE (in the mail, woo!) and although I have nothing but positive comments for ICD, I know what I want in my marker, and they simply don't offer it. Come December, we'll see how the Mag fares in my rookie tourny.

Cheers! :)
i cant say that i've ever had any problems with smart parts as far as their markers go...i've owned probably close to 30 different shockers and probably half as many imps...but i'm no longer going to support smart parts and their lack of ethics...i'm trading my 07 russian legion as we speak for a dark ego...the few shockers i have left though i'll have to keep because they were gifts from the fiance and she'd kill me for selling/trading them,so i guess they'll just it on the wall and collect dust :cuss:

[maniacmechanic]

i cant say that i've ever had any problems with smart parts as far as their markers go...i've owned probably close to 30 different shockers and probably half as many imps...but i'm no longer going to support smart parts and their lack of ethics...i'm trading my 07 russian legion as we speak for a dark ego...the few shockers i have left though i'll have to keep because they were gifts from the fiance and she'd kill me for selling/trading them,so i guess they'll just it on the wall and collect dust :cuss:

you go Graves

[CKY_Alliance]

Edit.......Dont post if you have to swear


I swear,I get a banned for a week, anyone else swears they get warned?


Smart parts with more patents? I would have never imagined.... :rolleyes:

[Ninjeff]

i cant say that i've ever had any problems with smart parts as far as their markers go...i've owned probably close to 30 different shockers and probably half as many imps...but i'm no longer going to support smart parts and their lack of ethics...i'm trading my 07 russian legion as we speak for a dark ego...the few shockers i have left though i'll have to keep because they were gifts from the fiance and she'd kill me for selling/trading them,so i guess they'll just it on the wall and collect dust :cuss:


:cheers: HERES TO YOU!

[Lenny]

Glad I got rid of my Shocker when I did.

Someone needs to seriously whoop the Gardner bros. [butt].

[st6212]

Does AGD already have a patent for this? Couldn't they just make a phone call and say, "hey we already have a a patent for this."

Or say this already exists and show them proof and proof its existed longer before the application?

It doesn't necessarily need to go to some court or something does it? I mean aren't there certain individuals already going discuss other patents with the patent office(Mr. Ricci?)?

[mostpeople]

AFAIK AGD doesnt have any patents... tom kaye refused to do it for the good of the sport.

Ironic, that... the gardner brothers decided to screw everyone over..

[Papa_Smurf]

all the hatred and flaming going on right now looks to have encouraged this..
I plan to sit back quietly and not buy anything SP

[punkrex]

all the hatred and flaming going on right now looks to have encouraged this..
I plan to sit back quietly and not buy anything SP

Don't under estimate the power of greed.

[bryceeden]

Wow, I'm going to post this on the other forum and se if we can get another responce from Gardner. Thats nuts those have been on the market years before Smart Parts was even a company.

[mostpeople]

Wow, I'm going to post this on the other forum and se if we can get another responce from Gardner. Thats nuts those have been on the market years before Smart Parts was even a company.


Its been posted there, its where I got it from.. figured it should be here too.

[ThePixelGuru]

I swear,I get a banned for a week, anyone else swears they get warned?
I posted four stars in a row and got banned for a week, although people have more offensive usernames and user titles... Moderation isn't exactly uniform, I've learned.

Sigh... SP never quits, eh? Wish I had enough knowledge to bring them some hurt. Oh well, guess I'll keep voting with the old wallet.

[Spider-TW]

Just an all American family owned business protecting their interests with continuous patents and litigation.

[Anjin3515]

the best way any one of us can do anything is to not buy from SP and tell all your friends not to buy SP...and keep the word spreading not to buy from them. Its especially important to educate newer players on this....

Ive never owned an SP product and never will.

[craltal]

The problem comes from the licensing fees that are being paid to SP...

[tech-chan]

Thanks for the warning. I'm bored and wanting to kill someone right now.

[mostpeople]

^ I know its a joke, and laughed - but I would edit that if I were you..

[robnix]

AFAIK AGD doesnt have any patents... tom kaye refused to do it for the good of the sport.

Ironic, that... the gardner brothers decided to screw everyone over..

Do a patent search for Thomas G. Kotsiopoulos. The difference is getting the patent as a defensive or offensive tool.

[mostpeople]

Do a patent search for Thomas G. Kotsiopoulos. The difference is getting the patent as a defensive or offensive tool.


parhaps I know wrong, does AGD have patents...

[Mechanic79]

all the hatred and flaming going on right now looks to have encouraged this..
I plan to sit back quietly and not buy anything SP


I too, will VOTE with my dollars.

[p8ntbal4me]

AFAIK AGD doesnt have any patents... tom kaye refused to do it for the good of the sport.

Ironic, that... the gardner brothers decided to screw everyone over..


Dont take this as a slander toward Tom or anyone.

But at this point,.. where we all know what SP (Gardner) is doing,.... you would think that people like AGD (Tom), WGP (Bud,.. when he was there), PPS (Glenn and his boy), etc..... would say,.. "Alright,.. enough is enough SP. Either stop ammending your patents,... or we will show prior art for all patents not filed, file counter suite,... and bury you for every dime you have to spend."

I wish the "old guys" would get together and stop this madness that it Smart Parts.

I had a convo with an "Old Timer" from Billys All American Days and even before that.

Somewhere in a basement from long ago,.. there is a patent for the original muzzle break that Gardner used on his first barrels.... claiming him to be the inventor of it all.

How funny would that be if he had to pay back all the funds he got started with back in the day?

Gardner sucks,.... now Im seriously thinking about getting rid of my Shockers.

Its gotta end some time for them,....... :nono:

[Mechanic79]

Smart Parts is a cancer. We need to be the cure.

[nathanjones008]

I bet sp is losing tons of money cause peeps are tired of their madness. :headbang:

[mostpeople]

Somebody with the resources and the know how needs to set up a website that shows, and documents all the things SP does to hurt the industry, as a central place for them to get information etc...

imho

[Freebird]

im not going to lie, i love my all American barrel.

But i do despise smart parts, a whole lot. I work at a Paintball field in upstate NY. The owner, my boss has been playing since 1988. Hes rolled with bud orr at the world cup and has stories of 400+ player stock class games. He Says the industry has changed from a "built by players for players" to an industry of "built by the lowest bidder for the highest dollar". And i believe it. I am only 18 years old but ive been playing since i was 9. In my experiances ive watched the industry change in the past 9 years. Ive seen the shadow of SP grow larger and larger since i can remember. True paintballers play paintball because its fun. They play for the sport. Not the money, or the fame because its very seldom that a normal paintball player is recognized and made famous. Like tom, he held his patents back for the good of the sport. Im guessing his intention was for crazy minded modders out ther could take his ideas and personalize them and tweak them. I think smart parts needs to chill out on its patent BS. OK they deserve the patent for the freak. But really when you start crossing into the area they have been. Youve gone to far. Like i said before my boss, field owner hornets nest paintball est. 1992 will not carry smart parts. The only thing he sells from smart parts is the freak kits. NOT even the spare tips or backs. He believes that smart parts will take over and destroy this industry. Small unique home based marker companies will be put out of business because of these patents.

I agree with everyone
somthing needs to be done, and people need to be educated.
dont even think about going through a magazine though. smart parts has every magazine out there by the balls. flame smart parts in your mag, ok they wont purchase the 9 full page adds they do.


Still we have to get the word out there.
Ill help doing whatever i can
ill hand paint anti smart parts T shirts if i have to

OHH wait? dosent smart parts have a T shirt patent already?

ohh nvm thats next week.

[garbage_anus]

I'm waiting for the day when Smart Parts files a patent for pump guns or something silly and ultra general.

There will be a day when SP has gone too far, the day when they push the wrong persons buttons. Microsoft has been in the courts for the last dozen years, and Smart Parts is basically trying to follow the same basic idea of trying to gain a monopoly on the market. It will backfire in the long run and the company will fade out.

I hope never to see the day when we refer to paintball as "Smartball", or be forced to pray to the Gardner brothers before a game starts.

I'm up for the days of paying $2000 again for a nice marker if it means not supporting Smart Parts.

[Papa_Smurf]

I'm waiting for the day when Smart Parts files a patent for pump guns or something silly and ultra general.

Welcome to that day. They do the ultra general thing.

[devildog]

maybe someone else should have gotten the patent first. kudos to sp for making a buck

[siloseven]

OK, I don't speak Govenment or Laywer... can someone translate what tose claims/patants say in a nut shell?

[ThePixelGuru]

maybe someone else should have gotten the patent first. kudos to sp for making a buck
Imagine if TK patented HPA. Or if Tippmann patented the pin valve. They didn't, because they wanted to see the sport do well. And I don't mean just buyers not having to pay more because of the added royalties - I mean companies losing out because buyers get sick of all this and leave the sport because it ceases to be fun. That doesn't just affect players, it affects the entire industry. If you kill the industry, you kill your market. Don't believe me? Check out the industry's numbers. Player growth has not only stagnated, it's going backwards. SP is killing the sport, and no one's winning.

[SnatchForFree]

the best way any one of us can do anything is to not buy from SP and tell all your friends not to buy SP...and keep the word spreading not to buy from them. Its especially important to educate newer players on this....

Ive never owned an SP product and never will.


That's kinda my view on this whole thing. When I post my arguments on PBN. I hope that some of the newer players are lurking and seeing how SP isn't this great company. The patent system really is flawed.

[devildog]

you guys are blowing this way past what it is. sp never said the other companies cant build these products. they just have to pay a few bucks to smartparts to do it. it happens in buisness all the time. why is it wrong for paintball, but right for everything else?

[Aggravated Assault]

I kinda agree to a point...but sp appears (to me) to like to take other peoples ideas and/or prior designs.. and patent it as their own.

Maybe one could argue good business, but bad ethics?

Thats enough for me to choose to spend my money somewhere else.

[ThePixelGuru]

you guys are blowing this way past what it is. sp never said the other companies cant build these products. they just have to pay a few bucks to smartparts to do it. it happens in buisness all the time. why is it wrong for paintball, but right for everything else?
Because the royalties they charge let them inflate everyone else's prices and undercut them with SP markers. The cost of these royalties drives consumers away from other companies and to SP, or just plain forces companies under by slashing their profit. Plus, SP makes money every time someone buys a marker they had nothing to do with. If your marker has batteries, odds are SP got a cut. You can't tell me batteries were suddenly a patent-worthy idea the minute they hit the paintball field.

Also allow me at this point to mention that those who have access to the numbers are far from implying that it's a "few bucks." Quite the opposite. And this isn't a paintball-only issue. Monopolistic business practices are not a good thing for consumers or for an industry. The issue here is that SP doesn't make money by putting out a better product, they make money by litigating their way to the top of the heap. No one who really cares about the sport wants to see that.

People bring up the "it's happening in other industries, too" thing all the time. Yes, it is. None of us said it was a good thing, or that paintball happens to be the most important issue here. Still, this is a paintball forum. If it was some other kind of forum, maybe we'd be discussing patent issues related to that industry, instead. That logic is like walking into a church and going, "gee, there are a lot of people who believe in God around here."

[devildog]

so youre going to tell me that marker prices now are more expensive than back in say 01 or 02? please.....

markers are now faster, more reliable, smaller, consistent, and CHEAPER than ever. that is up for argument of course, but the cheaper part holds true.

[ThePixelGuru]

so youre going to tell me that marker prices now are more expensive than back in say 01 or 02? please.....

markers are now faster, more reliable, smaller, consistent, and CHEAPER than ever. that is up for argument of course, but the cheaper part holds true.
And what part of that would not have taken place without SP?

[Niox]

so youre going to tell me that marker prices now are more expensive than back in say 01 or 02? please.....

markers are now faster, more reliable, smaller, consistent, and CHEAPER than ever. that is up for argument of course, but the cheaper part holds true.

Cheaper is true but for what reason? Parts could be cheaper to manufacture/buy-in. SP themselves had to set up a company in china/india/somewhere around there to get production costs down for the Ion. Afterall why pay a brit (just because I'm british) a minimum of £5.50 an hour when you can pay someone in a developing nation 27p an hour to do the same work possibly to the same standard?

Another point, it would be interesting to see how much production of a marker like say the DM7 and no doubt soon the inspiringly named DM8 is compared to the final retail value and how much of the difference is taken up with royalties.

In anycase SP=Bad, in my books anyway.

Much love,
Niox

[devildog]

And what part of that would not have taken place without SP?

thats my point exactly. regardless of royalty payments, monopolies, and patents by sp we arrive at the same outcome. so where is the problem here? sp didnt hurt anything.

Can't hate em for doing what business are out to do: make money. Smart parts was not created to make guns for free. none of the manufacturers were.

Hey, im not saying i support sp or think what they did is ethical. I'm just making an argument. there always has to be someone on the other team right ;)

[Madmox]

I don't think anyone is questioning their business decisions. What is being questioned is their total lack of ethical behavior. The catch is that, sure, they may make money in the short run but in the long run this sort of behavior will have a detrimental effect on the industry as a whole as the competition is crowded out. Once the competition is suppressed they can drop the quality of the markers and raise the prices and have everyone by the short and curlies. Chances are the only people that could stand up to SP is K2 (though they seem pretty content back in their WGP corner). Or us as consumers to take a more grass roots approach, slander. But the fact that their markers fill a niche in the market at a given price point means soccer moms will pay the price for their precious kiddies to have a EP marker.


Madmox

Pump guns... Making a comeback one disenchanted ex-Smart Parts consumer at a time...Word

[dropzone]

Chances are the only people that could stand up to SP is K2 (though they seem pretty content back in their WGP corner). Or us as consumers to take a more grass roots approach, slander.

Actually National Paintball Supply holds most of the clout nowadays in the industry even compared to Smart Parts which is why I don`t see anything coming out of this whole uproar with Key Action and the mini invert. NPS was bought out and is now owned by Summit corporation which has deep pockets than run way farther down than the paintball industry and make SP look like a mom & pop grocery store.

WGP is just a drop in the bucket and would be an easy target for either one if they chose to allocate the expenditures in legal fees to pursue them. What I would be more worried about is a merger between SP and NPS which would pretty much seal the deal on a monopoly within the paintball industry.

[doc_Zox]

and I'm sure a few Lawyers could gather together and get that plan rolling right along.

A couple of lawsuits later and 100 percent of the industries manufacturing is managed in Shanghai.

[Chronobreak]

WGP is just a drop in the bucket and would be an easy target for either one if they chose to allocate the expenditures in legal fees to pursue them. What I would be more worried about is a merger between SP and NPS which would pretty much seal the deal on a monopoly within the paintball industry.

sp or dye joining kee at this point would pretty much mean a monopoly, though kee is close enough already if you ask me.

on the bright side of things, monopolies are generaly forced to break up, and encourage competition, putting us back at square 1

[ProblemKinder]

you guys are blowing this way past what it is. sp never said the other companies cant build these products. they just have to pay a few bucks to smartparts to do it. it happens in buisness all the time. why is it wrong for paintball, but right for everything else?

i think you're missing the point entirely.

if SP had actually invented the ideas they are somehow getting patents for, we wouldn't have anything to complain about.

did SP invent the pneumatic trigger? no. so why are they trying to patent it? did SP invent a solenoid operated paintball marker? no. so why do they have a patent for it?

[ProblemKinder]

thats my point exactly. regardless of royalty payments, monopolies, and patents by sp we arrive at the same outcome. so where is the problem here? sp didnt hurt anything.

Can't hate em for doing what business are out to do: make money. Smart parts was not created to make guns for free. none of the manufacturers were.

Hey, im not saying i support sp or think what they did is ethical. I'm just making an argument. there always has to be someone on the other team right ;)

maybe the price of a DM7 is the same now as it would be if they didn't have to pay SP royalties. HOWEVER. if they DIDN'T have to pay SP royalties, that would be more money in their pockets, which would be better for the industry when all the companies are making money, not when one company is making money and the rest are barely scraping by.

[devildog]

did SP invent the pneumatic trigger? no. so why are they trying to patent it? did SP invent a solenoid operated paintball marker? no. so why do they have a patent for it?

who cares why they are trying to patent it? why is this something to complain about? it isnt hurting you in any way....

everyone keeps coming back to how SP actions are bad for the industry. i dont understand where you guys are getting this from. the industry is better than ever.

[ThePixelGuru]

who cares why they are trying to patent it? why is this something to complain about? it isnt hurting you in any way....

everyone keeps coming back to how SP actions are bad for the industry. i dont understand where you guys are getting this from. the industry is better than ever.
I don't see how you can say this isn't hurting us in any way. If SP hadn't gone all lawsuit-happy, maybe AGD would have a new electro out these days. Maybe we'd be seeing new AKA markers. Maybe we could buy better markers from companies at lower prices because they wouldn't have to pass the royalty costs on to the consumer or take the hit themselves. I could go on and on...

SP is getting money from consumers and competing companies for things they didn't invent. If you don't see how that's bad, I don't know what I can say to convince you.

[Thotograph]

Royalties are wrong in sp's case. They claim the most general concepts as original designs and use vague blanket terms to cover every possible variance in design. It makes no sense how they get away with this (ohh yeah they can actually afford to with all that o.p.m. they have). It's like a car company claiming a patent on brakes, or rather onboard stopping devices ;) No car company would do that because for safetys sake and for the betterment of the industry.

Sp is greedy and just wants money and doesn't care about anything else. If sp was patenting original designs and then another company wanted to use that design then the royalties that come with usage of a specific design are just. Saying that if you use electricity and air to move a paintball then we own it is absolute garbage and I will not stand for it and will always hate them.

BOYCOTT SP :clap: :dance: :clap:

What blows my mind is how no one within the govts or patent offices hasn't caught on and made sp account for all these frivilous lawsuits and rediculous ammendments. Where's the anti trust police when you need them? Ohh yeah they are too busy trying to stiffle microsoft or something.

I'm getting way to :mad: over this, if I go on anymore I'm gonna earn a 5day vacation, sorry for the longwinded response (as is my usual lol). Truth is honest and informed AOers can't be made to like sp... devildog, you defending them makes me suspect your last name starts with a G and ends with a ardener... but I could be wrong. Just can't see how they've earned your loyalty... the products are best described as awful, and their practices are greedy, filthy, and just plain dishonest. SP = thieves in expensive suits with law degrees.

[devildog]

I don't see how you can say this isn't hurting us in any way. If SP hadn't gone all lawsuit-happy, maybe AGD would have a new electro out these days. Maybe we'd be seeing new AKA markers. Maybe we could buy better markers from companies at lower prices because they wouldn't have to pass the royalty costs on to the consumer or take the hit themselves. I could go on and on...


for one, if agd wants to make a new electro they can. sp isnt saying the cant. aka was going in the toilet anyway, although their markers were awesome. as for lower prices, i can agree with that, although i dont think the difference would be that huge. look how much cheaper markers are nowadays.

my point about not hurting us is that the pball market has gone on and thrived no matter what smart parts did. smart parts hasnt stopped anything.

i understand your guys points. yes, sp did not invent these things, they are stealing the patents, this is bad ethics, blah blah. so what. my point is that the pball industry is not suffering. you are arguing a different point to me.

and as for the products sp makes, they are not all crap. back in the day, shoebox shockers were awesome. today, the shocker continues to be a great gun. the freak barrel was always a great kit, and the maxflo tank is a great tank.

on that note, the only sp product i own is a freak set which ive had for 5 years or so. i am not promoting sp. i am not the gman