What makes mags so accurate?

[RavishingEddie]

I have studied the way mags work and I have looked at many illustrations and animations for mags (unbalanced blowforward) spool (balanced blowforward) and hammer piston types.
I had an SL-68II (Nelson based) which I loved alot before I owned a mag.
I will admit I had problems with my emag at first with setting the LVL-10 and sear/dwell adjustment, but one thing that kept me close to the family was the great accuracy.
Now my friends had just started playing paintball and already were owning 07 Egos and DM7's.

They made fun of me and my ancient gun which they had no clue about. The little they knew was from what I had told them. So one day I finally gave in and bought an 07 Ego. The gun was wicked light and very easy to hit full out speeds.

Once I played I felt like the thing was gonna fly off my hands, it was very light and super fast, but once the tempo slowed down we began to snap shoot, it did not come close to my Emag in accuracy. Now don't get me wrong the Ego is a great tournament marker, and I got alot of eliminations when I used my friends 06, but when I snap shoot; the mag just hits the spot. I sold the Ego 2 weeks after I bought it.

Now is it just me or are mags really this accurate? If the mag is this accurate, why aren't other similar systems like the Ion as good?

I apologize in advance to anyone that is a lover of the above mentioned guns. Don't want to start a gun vs. gun thread. Just paying homage to my favorite marker.

[mr doo doo]

the part about your friends making fun of you, yea, get that all the time... but i must agree with you: mags are DEFINITELY accurate, and its hard to move onto another gun because of it. :shooting:

[Dewok82]

Good paint, a good barrel, and a good paint to barrel match. Consistent velocity helps as well.

A lot of the new whiz-bang electros are made to be really light so the kids with chicken arms can brag about how little their setup weighs. I don't consider Automags to be heavy, but they are a bit heavier than the newer high end electros. IMHO, a heavier marker provides a more stable shooting platform which leads to increased accuracy.

[SR_matt]

there are so many factors to why a gun is/seems/acts more accurate over another.

mags are single tube markers so they are easier to sight with, the shape of them (at least for me) make it much easier to just know where the barrel is and where the balls will go. the paint/barrel match is one thing that will always change but, the amount of air put into the reservoir in guns like mags is/ can be more consistent than guns that the valve is slammed open.

the big thing comes down to "if it works for you, use it, if it doesnt then dont" simple as that. slinging paint works for some things, other times you need to have the marker that you can shoot and hit what you want first time. i shot a cocker and sniper 2 for a while before i had my mag, all the guns are very accurate/ consistent BUT the mag is easier to drop a ball where i want it with out having to think much if at all, thats how it was out of the box for me so i knew there was something god about the mag for me.

the speed vs accuracy is why i like the ult's, i can drop a ball where i want it but i can drop my hopper almost as fast as my friends electros (of course not as fast but i shoot to much so it does keep me a little slower but if weight/space/ money were no issue i could go through a few cases in a day of play, first scenario i went to i dropped probably 4-5 cases (luckly a huge team that is a friend team was handing out paint in the final battle and swapping our air tanks with theirs for the hour so i dropped more paint in that hour than any other hour in my life (letting my ult do all the work for about an hour straight)

-matt

[Russ]

Wait a minute...

EVERYBODY knows 'cockers are more accurate than Mags ;)


:rofl:

[ProblemKinder]

What makes mags so accurate?

the barrel :rolleyes:

[Thotograph]

one word: quality

[MoeMag]

I don’t know... but it’s something. They are more accurate. I don’t care what anyone says. They hit harder and go farther with tighter groupings than anything I have shot, and thats why the only guns I have kept are my two automags.

Maybe it is just Quality.

[Freebird]

AGD motto'

"Quality Always Shoots Straight"

i think its because the air comes from the back of the bolt, not from an underneath passage like cockers and spyder type markers.

im not sure, but i LOVE sniping people first shot with my MAG14

[Mechanic79]

Quality, Consistency and Reliability.

[phizz]

Wait a minute...

EVERYBODY knows 'cockers are more accurate than Mags ;)


:rofl:

I can't beleive nobody has commented on this one yet!!!

[Skoad]

Ok here's the secret. Consistant FPS and a halfway decent barrel/paint match. TAaDaA!!


we all know mags can only do this :cool:

[dropzone]

Wait a minute...

EVERYBODY knows 'cockers are more accurate than Mags ;)


:rofl:


Actually I shoot both an Mag rt ule custom and an 04 Orracle. Both shoot with a totally different style and feel but are vary comparable when it comes to accuracy or for a better word consistency.

Accuracy is a relative term when it comes to paintball so anyone that has enough experience and knowledge of the sport really doesn't buy into the hype. Consistency and reliability are the 2 key factors in any marker, If todays industry where to put those 2 key elements first above all else we would have basically every old school high end marker that is available to us here on this B/S/T part of the forum and the host of many others at a fraction of the cost of what you would pay for new school hype.

SSSSSSHHHHHH!!!!

Don`t let this get around but my all mechanical mag can shoot just as fast as any new elctro on the market. My Orracle can put ball on ball in a accuracy test against any top design in the industry. Now, with that being said my mag is just as accurate as the Orracle and if I chose to do so I can buy the upgrades to make the Orracle a paint monster both of which can compete against any " high end" marker being produced right now.

Believe me ? I care not. Ill just keep buying the old school left overs at a fraction of the cost and still Keep those new 1,400 dollar markers in check.


Consistency + Quality paint to barrel match = accuracy

Volume of paint is vs. accuracy is restrained by the equation above.

I am an old man that is tired, worn out and his old bones ache when he moves. I have been involved in this sport for over 10 years and have seen a lot of advancement, innovative and great ideas advance the sport of paintball but there is one thing that never ceases to amaze me. The need for younger players to buy into the mass publications and advertisements of companies that make claims that defy the law of physics and common sense.

Over the last 5 years the B.S. has been piling up at x squared the rate that it was piling up
in the 5 years past.

So who's to blame? I blame MTV.


Think for yourselves kids............. Don`t believe the hype!!!!!!

[Lenny]

Wait a minute...

EVERYBODY knows 'cockers are more accurate than Mags ;)


:rofl:
No... 'Cockers simply shoot farther. :rolleyes:

/I miss the rivalry.

[secretweaponevan]

As mentioned, the only thing that affects accuracy is consistency in the form of paint to barrel match and velocity.

You are probably feel that you are more accurate with your mag because you "know" it. Just by the feel of it in your hands, you know where it is going to hit when you pull the trigger. I think so many people are constantly buying and selling guns and never satisfied because they don't take the time to develop the muscle memory that comes from "knowing" one particular marker.

Grats to you for getting hooked on quality. :)

[Tractorpull]

I taught the kids that play at my local field pretty quickly (when I started playing regularly again :) ) to never underestimate the mag. They would hit the field with shockers and matrix's and I would school them at long range. And I was playing with my classic with level 10.

[punkncat]

You do realize that with good paint to barrel match and consistent regs ANY gun can be accurate?

There is no question in my mind that different markers give different results in peoples hands, but to say that one marker of equal "range" (price, quality, etc.) is more accurate than another is misleading.

[turbo chicken]

You are probably feel that you are more accurate with your mag because you "know" it. Just by the feel of it in your hands, you know where it is going to hit when you pull the trigger. I think so many people are constantly buying and selling guns and never satisfied because they don't take the time to develop the muscle memory that comes from "knowing" one particular marker.



so true .. so true ... you've really got to gove yourself a chance to adjust. There's nothing that can replace shooting something your comfortable with.

[BlueDragonX]

so true .. so true ... you've really got to gove yourself a chance to adjust. There's nothing that can replace shooting something your comfortable with.

Here here! So true. Accuracy is in the player, consistency is in the marker. My two markers, both my E-Mag and my pump, are set up to be as comfortable for me as possible. I can snap shoot incredibly well with both, and the Mag can lay down as much paint as I could ever desire.

I tell this to the kids at the field always wanting to get the latest and greatest. They need to find something they feel comfortable with and stick with it.

[Freebird]

so true .. so true ... There's nothing that can replace shooting something your comfortable with.

I totally agree, and contrary to many people on this form i HATE the feel of a normal PB gun. I have been shooting a rifle ever since my grandfather gave me a 22 single shot when i was 6 years old. To me you cannot beat the feel of a full sized rifle. I feel much more comfortable wielding a 3 and a half ft long mag/rifle than an 18" speedball marker tucked tight. When i hold the rifle its as if i can feel the ball leaving the gun, traveling down the barrel onto target. Now dont get me wrong, bad paint = bad accuracy, no matter who shoots it. And a proper ball to barrel match does help greatly. A consistent and reliable marker is also a LEAD factor. simply put, and i take simple to the fullest extent. "if your gun dont shoot at all it aint very accurate".

As someone stated, many players dont give themselves enough time to get used to a marker, this is also very true. Ive been shooting "rifle style" guns so long, that i just had to build my rifle. I do have a freak system for it and that just takes my accuracy to another level. PLUS its a mag, so consistency and reliability are already thrown in. I broke it down like this, now some people may argue, and they may be right. this is just thrown together.

20%shooter
20%reliability
20%barrel/ball match/ball quality
20%consistency
20%marker experiance


now of course there are other factors, but this is simple.


just my .02


-Freebird

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/nate911chew/100_0309.jpg

[secretweaponevan]

Accuracy is in the player, consistency is in the marker.

Well said.

[ThePixelGuru]

About all a marker in itself can do is put the same amount of air behind the ball the same way with every shot. Thanks to a great integrated regulator and fixed-volume air chamber, 'mags just do this better than most.

[divil]

because quality always shoots straight

[teufelhunden]

Mags seem more accurate cuz they weigh 400 lbs and so the gun stays pretty damned steady when you shoot it. esp your emag.

[ThePixelGuru]

Mags seem more accurate cuz they weigh 400 lbs and so the gun stays pretty damned steady when you shoot it. esp your emag.
Yes, because there's no such thing as ULE milling, clearly. :rolleyes:
Troll much?

[JAM]

I don’t know... but it’s something. They are more accurate. I don’t care what anyone says. They hit harder and go farther with tighter groupings than anything I have shot.

Please tell me you're kidding.

That argument might work with firearms and saying the .308 hits harder farther than the 5.56, but this is PAINTBALL.

a .68 cal paintball leaving the barrel at 300 fps will go exactly the same distance and hit just as hard from ANY gun. Please stop the harder/further talk.

As for accuracy, three things-

1.paint quality (roundness, smooth seams, etc.)
2.paint/barrel match
3. Air pressure consistency

I've found 1 & 2 to be the most important as most decent paintguns have at least respectable air consistency.

Note- longer barrels don't make it more accurate either- they do make shots a little quieter as well as being a good tool to push through the brush or against a supair bunker.

I have owned and played with almost every gun out there from the Splatmaster to my current Ego and given good paint and good barrel fit, they were all equally accurate.

And for the record, I owed a Mag back in '90, then have gone through 2 minimags, a ULT/XValve mag, an RT, an Emag and an XMag. They were not magically any better than other guns.

Oh, and they ALL had the same range. ;)

[JAM]

20%shooter
20%reliability
20%barrel/ball match/ball quality
20%consistency
20%marker experiance
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/nate911chew/100_0309.jpg

Nice breakdown freebird, and by the way, that is a great looking marker!

[Indignant]

what makes mags, specifically, more accurate?






nothing.

[Mechanic79]

Please tell me you're kidding.

That argument might work with firearms and saying the .308 hits harder farther than the 5.56, but this is PAINTBALL.

a .68 cal paintball leaving the barrel at 300 fps will go exactly the same distance and hit just as hard from ANY gun. Please stop the harder/further talk.

As for accuracy, three things-

1.paint quality (roundness, smooth seams, etc.)
2.paint/barrel match
3. Air pressure consistency

I've found 1 & 2 to be the most important as most decent paintguns have at least respectable air consistency.

Note- longer barrels don't make it more accurate either- they do make shots a little quieter as well as being a good tool to push through the brush or against a supair bunker.

I have owned and played with almost every gun out there from the Splatmaster to my current Ego and given good paint and good barrel fit, they were all equally accurate.

And for the record, I owed a Mag back in '90, then have gone through 2 minimags, a ULT/XValve mag, an RT, an Emag and an XMag. They were not magically any better than other guns.

Oh, and they ALL had the same range. ;)

"They were not magically any better than other guns."

"They" don't need magic, "They" have Level 10. All other electro guns REQUIRE eyes, PDS and other acronyms!

1,2,3 are exactly right though. Nice post.

[teufelhunden]

Yes, because there's no such thing as ULE milling, clearly. :rolleyes:
Troll much?

Clearly, the OP was talking about an E-Mag with a 12 lb battery pack and given that he talked about setting up the LX and the electronic settings, he probably bought it new meaning it probably came with an SS E-Max valve, weighing in at another 12lb.

Clearly, you can not use context clues and hence trolled my post. Troll much?

[RavishingEddie]

Hello guys and thank you all for posting your findings. Anyway for the record. I used 07 Powerlyte Scepters on the guns and the same average PMI paint.

[robertsr1811]

Mags are quite accurate.

Personally I think it has to do with the overall design. Mags are, at heart, nothing more than a venting regulator. Ergo, they SHOULD be quite consistent since theoretically they are venting the same pressure of gas each time.

Consistency = accuracy. Even if your shot is 6 degrees off center, if it's 6 degrees off center EVERY TIME, you'll still be able to hit what you aim at.

[JAM]

"They were not magically any better than other guns."

"They" don't need magic, "They" have Level 10. All other electro guns REQUIRE eyes, PDS and other acronyms!

1,2,3 are exactly right though. Nice post.

true on the lev10. off-topic I know, but you're right: a working mechanical anti-chop system is really awesome.
Nice work Tom.

[ThePixelGuru]

Clearly, the OP was talking about an E-Mag with a 12 lb battery pack and given that he talked about setting up the LX and the electronic settings, he probably bought it new meaning it probably came with an SS E-Max valve, weighing in at another 12lb.

Clearly, you can not use context clues and hence trolled my post. Troll much?
Oh Jebus. I was trying not to get into this too heavily since the title of this thread sets it up for a nice AO circlejerk, but now I'm gonna do it anyway.

As many have said, most of the accuracy of a marker comes from quality paint matching a quality barrel. Aside from that, all a marker can do is put the same amount of air behind the ball at the same pressure and release that air at the same rate every time. The weight of a marker has no bearing on this at all. Automags tend to be more accurate because their design accomplishes this better than most (not all) markers. It's a fact that spool valve markers, for example, have a harder time doing this than a blow-forward like the 'mag. It's also a fact that a hammer hitting a pin in a valve has a harder time doing this. There's just more to screw up, and more variables where the 'mag has constants. Something solid like a steel chamber has far less variability than, say, a spring. The 'mag has fewer parts which change the volume of the chamber than most (again, not all) markers, and comes stock with a better reg than most (once more, not all) stock markers. Why do you think people change out the regs on almost every marker as one of the first upgrades? Has an aftermarket 'mag reg ever made a 'mag more consistent?

Consistency from the marker is not affected in any way by the weight of the marker. Sure, it affects the recoil so that the shooter has to do less readjustment between shots and it takes less effort to keep it on target, but that has nothing to do with the consistency of the marker. Slap that sucker in a vice and you eliminate a bunch of whacky variables. From what you're saying, it sounds like you're claiming that if I have a heavy classic 'mag, it'll be more consistent than, say, an Ion, but if I were to ULE it so it was lighter than the Ion suddenly I'd be able to hit less. This might hold true for a shooter who has trouble keeping his marker on target, but it won't hold true for a shooter with good technique, and it certainly won't hold true if you put the marker in a vice.

The reason I mentioned the troll thing is that I don't like seeing posts that clearly try to incite argument with crazy claims, like the claim that an EMag weighs in at 400lbs or that the battery pack and valve weigh in at 12lbs apiece. I'm assuming that you were exaggerating your beliefs with these statements, but the fact of the matter is that this is a 'mag forum and you're making clearly bunk claims that appear to be slamming the marker this forum is dedicated to. Honest criticisms are fine, but you have to admit that's a little over the top. If you're addressing the recoil issue, I can think of a load of better and less inflammatory ways to go about discussing the topic, such as "Your EMag is heavier than your friend's Ego, so the diminished recoil probably allows you to keep your marker on target more easily."

Bearing all this in mind, it's easy enough to set up almost any marker to be extremely consistent. There's no reason that a well-equipped, well-maintained marker should be any less consistent than any other, but out of the box the 'mag just plain does this better than most. Take a classic 'mag straight out of the box and I'd bet on it in any vice test against any marker in its price range; there are markers out of its price range that could match it, but in those cases you'd be comparing a nearly perfectly consistent marker against another nearly perfectly consistent marker. Clearly we were answering different questions as you appeared to be responding to the question "Why am I a better shot with my EMag than my friend's Ego" while I was responding to the question of "Why are 'mags more consistent." The other difference between our responses is that mine did not include inflammatory and clearly falsified measurements.

In regards to your attack on me about failing to read context clues, some context which I have noted include the following:
- EMags are not available new, and have not been for some time.
- In the time that he has had it, it's very possible he got some ULE milling done, or bought an X-Valve.
- He could have bought it used with any of these upgrades.
- 'Mags occasionally need tuning, so it's not out of line to consider that perhaps he tuned a used one.
- He mentioned that "once the tempo slowed down and we began to snap shoot" he noticed the difference in accuracy.

Noting these context clues, I feel compelled to further note that recoil is less of an issue in snap shooting than in shooting long strings on the break, and that he had the issue during the former rather than the latter. Being that recoil is now less likely to be the culprit, it is more likely that he was less accurate with the Ego than the EMag because he was used to the EMag. However, he asked about the 'mag, not about his personal shooting habits. That being the case I answered the question about the 'mag and not the one that he didn't ask about his shooting habits, which you answered.

Being that you answered the wrong question with falsified information, I felt the need to call you on it. Thanks for your input, though. :cheers:

[teufelhunden]

I didn't even read that entire thing because you didn't respond to what I originally said. I was noting that due to the Emag not being a featherweight like todays guns, especially towards the front due to the battery pack, the Emag may seem like it puts paint in tighter groupings because the gun will not move as much as a result of the higher weight.

Point: Take an emag, pull the battery, fire in mech. Put the battery on, fire in mech. Bet the barrel stayed closer to its original position with the battery on.

[Foxworthy]

I didn't even read that entire thing because you didn't respond to what I originally said. I was noting that due to the Emag not being a featherweight like todays guns, especially towards the front due to the battery pack, the Emag may seem like it puts paint in tighter groupings because the gun will not move as much as a result of the higher weight.

Point: Take an emag, pull the battery, fire in mech. Put the battery on, fire in mech. Bet the barrel stayed closer to its original position with the battery on.

But after shooting an Ego I'm sure the e-mag has more of a kick. Granted I've never fired a e-mag but I have fired the ole rental mags and despite their weight they have worse kick. You also said mags in general weighed 400lbs especially his e-mag. Which reads like a dig at mag being heavy which isn't always true.

[CKY_Alliance]

It's because the elves,duh.

[ThePixelGuru]

I didn't even read that entire thing because you didn't respond to what I originally said. I was noting that due to the Emag not being a featherweight like todays guns, especially towards the front due to the battery pack, the Emag may seem like it puts paint in tighter groupings because the gun will not move as much as a result of the higher weight.

Point: Take an emag, pull the battery, fire in mech. Put the battery on, fire in mech. Bet the barrel stayed closer to its original position with the battery on.


Consistency from the marker is not affected in any way by the weight of the marker. Sure, it affects the recoil so that the shooter has to do less readjustment between shots and it takes less effort to keep it on target, but that has nothing to do with the consistency of the marker. Slap that sucker in a vice and you eliminate a bunch of whacky variables. From what you're saying, it sounds like you're claiming that if I have a heavy classic 'mag, it'll be more consistent than, say, an Ion, but if I were to ULE it so it was lighter than the Ion suddenly I'd be able to hit less. This might hold true for a shooter who has trouble keeping his marker on target, but it won't hold true for a shooter with good technique, and it certainly won't hold true if you put the marker in a vice.

....

In regards to your attack on me about failing to read context clues, some context which I have noted include the following:
- EMags are not available new, and have not been for some time.
- In the time that he has had it, it's very possible he got some ULE milling done, or bought an X-Valve.
- He could have bought it used with any of these upgrades.
- 'Mags occasionally need tuning, so it's not out of line to consider that perhaps he tuned a used one.
- He mentioned that "once the tempo slowed down and we began to snap shoot" he noticed the difference in accuracy.

Noting these context clues, I feel compelled to further note that recoil is less of an issue in snap shooting than in shooting long strings on the break, and that he had the issue during the former rather than the latter. Being that recoil is now less likely to be the culprit, it is more likely that he was less accurate with the Ego than the EMag because he was used to the EMag. However, he asked about the 'mag, not about his personal shooting habits. That being the case I answered the question about the 'mag and not the one that he didn't ask about his shooting habits, which you answered.

:cheers:

[MoeMag]

Please tell me you're kidding.

That argument might work with firearms and saying the .308 hits harder farther than the 5.56, but this is PAINTBALL.

a .68 cal paintball leaving the barrel at 300 fps will go exactly the same distance and hit just as hard from ANY gun. Please stop the harder/further talk.

As for accuracy, three things-

1.paint quality (roundness, smooth seams, etc.)
2.paint/barrel match
3. Air pressure consistency

I've found 1 & 2 to be the most important as most decent paintguns have at least respectable air consistency.

Note- longer barrels don't make it more accurate either- they do make shots a little quieter as well as being a good tool to push through the brush or against a supair bunker.

I have owned and played with almost every gun out there from the Splatmaster to my current Ego and given good paint and good barrel fit, they were all equally accurate.

And for the record, I owed a Mag back in '90, then have gone through 2 minimags, a ULT/XValve mag, an RT, an Emag and an XMag. They were not magically any better than other guns.

Oh, and they ALL had the same range. ;)

I must agree that the three points are very much so important... I have gone out of my way to get gear that I feel adds to all of this. I stick with midnight or better draxxus paint unless I can get some nelson for a decent price. I have a freak kit, lucky kit, and deadlywind whisper... but I love my Dye SS twistlock and Dye AC boomstick. I have had 8 inch barrels all the way up to the 20" tactical tip for my freak... barrel length doesn’t mean squat to me except that tactical tip, on a SS freak back in my 06 ego is da bomb :rofl: . Then after all that I am a die hard crossfire hpa fan.

Then on top of that… my mag is the gun I have shot countless cases of paint out behind the shop and during a game, more so than probably every other gun I have shot combined. I know my two mags inside out… and at any range and just about any condition. So yeah that in itself probably gives me a huge bias.

So yeah I agree with ya on that.

But other than that... there isn’t anything magical about my mags. We just don’t understand it… kinda like in stargate with all the people thinking the aliens are gods and such. :tard: ... :D

I just think there is something outside the normal model of assessing a paintball guns performance. Something the automag has that many others don't.

At first I thought it might have to do with the o-ring stabilized free floating barrel (twistlocks) cutting down on resonance in the barrel... how’s that for a firearms answer. Only one thing tho… the mag shoots better in my opinion than others even with the AC threaded ULE body (but the twist lock is still better).
So I digress... isn’t the mag bolt one of the fastest moving bolts for paintball guns... maybe it slightly deforms the paintball to fit the barrel at that critical point of initial acceleration, and because of it, the ball looses any previous movement from slamming into the bottom of the breach, bouncing around off the detents, and such giving it less component forces to act on it down range... but the level 10 slamming into a ball and deforming it... that’s borderline ban worthy blasphemy being that the lvl 10 will stop on Tom’s tongue AND do the gold fish trick. So maybe it’s that initial low pressure burst of air that does something to the ball. How many other guns out there blow a little on the ball before a main charge… Maybe it floats the ball mid chamber momentarily stabilizing it before it goes flying on its merry way to someone’s face. IDK.

All I'm saying is I think there is something outside of the normal model that makes the automag have a better shot in my opinion.

:cheers:

EDIT: BWAHAHA!!! I have to add I'm sitting on my porch and the sprinklers just came on and scared the diddly out of my cat :rofl: happy holloween!

[REDRT]

I think a lot of the mags accuracy has to do with the shooter behind it. Instead of spraying paint all over and praying to hit someone we maggers tend to aim more. Especially us mechanical guys. We don't have the fastest smallest profile makers on the planet, but we have marker that hardly ever fails and are wickedly capable of delivering the money shot between to opponents eyes. A single paintball from no where is still very cool... :cool:

[TnDeathInc]

why are they so accurate,

because the people that shoot them, know their limitations (both themselves and their equipment) and learn to play the game at the fundamental level. YEs they can throw paint and keep up with anything out there. But i would rather have a few people who grew up with mags and know the game to a newbie with a hopped up 1500 dollar gun that pulls the trigger and sprays hoping to get 1 kill off 600 rounds :headbang:

[nathanjones008]

There are many factors to have an accurate gun, good regulator, paint to barrel match, outgoing pressure, nitro vs co2. The humidity factor(paint swelling)

I have proto rail and a mag, they are equally accurate :)