Windows Vista networking help

[teufelhunden]

Alright, so I have two new Windows Vista laptops in my home, both of which are trying to connect wirelessly. I have two WinXP desktops and two WinXP laptops that connect wirelessly, and one WinXP desktop that's wired in. Also, a Nintendo Wii and Xbox 360 coming in wirelessly. I run a Linksys WRT54G through cable modem, to the interwebs. Everything runs a static IP with 128bit WAP using TKIP encryption. -All- the Windows XP machines and the two gaming machines are golden on the network. However, the Vista machines are [b]very fidgety with the network. They will decide to occassionally say that "the network is busy" and refuse to connect, and I have no idea why. It happens at times when there's nothing else using the network, when the network has lots of traffic, etc. etc. etc. I have no idea what would be causing this, and need help, before I kill myself.

<3 daveykins

[robnix]

The timing on the initial handshake for Vista is not the same as it is in XP, it's quicker. If your AP is using XP timings, it may not send your Vista machine a quick enough, so you end up with the error message that you're getting or a slow wireless connection.

Fixes?

Hope your router has updated firmware.
Downgrade Vista to XP.
Upgrade Vista to Linux.

[teufelhunden]

Firmware is most up to date, the computer users are really not interested in going back to XP [and with valid reason-- it's going backward in technology and avoiding a problem instead of fixing it], and.... HAHAHAHA linux.

[d4m4don3]

Firmware is most up to date, the computer users are really not interested in going back to XP [and with valid reason-- it's going backward in technology and avoiding a problem instead of fixing it], and.... HAHAHAHA linux.

I would seriously consider linux or downgrading. Vista just has some minor quirks to it that cause issues. I figure one or two service packs and vista should be ok by then. btw theres a known bug with windows networking, vista slows down when you play media.

[teufelhunden]

Linux is a no-go because of the apps these users will be running [Quickbooks specifically on one, and some higher end tax/accounting software on the other].

[grEnAlEins]

Linux is a no-go because of the apps these users will be running [Quickbooks specifically on one, and some higher end tax/accounting software on the other].
VMware, VirtualBox, WINE, etc. You can run XP through Linux and use those, plus you get the added security and stability. This is of course only viable if you have appropriate hardware.

[teufelhunden]

VMware, VirtualBox, WINE, etc. You can run XP through Linux and use those, plus you get the added security and stability. This is of course only viable if you have appropriate hardware.

Linux is a no go. Not my machines, and the users have no desire to switch OS, let alone to a non-windows one.

[robnix]

Firmware is most up to date, the computer users are really not interested in going back to XP [and with valid reason-- it's going backward in technology and avoiding a problem instead of fixing it], and.... HAHAHAHA linux.

Implementing new technology in a business environment only makes sense if there are benefits involved. There's nothing "valid" about putting new and untested technology in place without testing it first. Did anyone bother testing Vista to make sure everything would work, or did they just buy some laptops and tell you to make them work?

...going forward in technology...give me a break. If you can't get the laptops on the network in a reliable fashion you've taken a big step backwards.

Good luck with your forward thinking technology.

[darqueMeye]

The timing on the initial handshake for Vista is not the same as it is in XP, it's quicker. If your AP is using XP timings, it may not send your Vista machine a quick enough, so you end up with the error message that you're getting or a slow wireless connection.

Fixes?

Hope your router has updated firmware.
Downgrade Vista to XP.
Upgrade Vista to Linux.
scrap your pos pc and trade up for a mac. and with the new osx leopard out you will be the hero of the show!

[bleachit]

Upgrade Vista to XP.



there ya go

[Hexis]

Implementing new technology in a business environment only makes sense if there are benefits involved. There's nothing "valid" about putting new and untested technology in place without testing it first. Did anyone bother testing Vista to make sure everything would work, or did they just buy some laptops and tell you to make them work?

...going forward in technology...give me a break. If you can't get the laptops on the network in a reliable fashion you've taken a big step backwards.

Good luck with your forward thinking technology.


Common, don't correct him. It's that type of attitude that keeps IT folks employed. I like working.

[teufelhunden]

This whole setup is at home, not work. The two laptops were not "upgraded" to Vista, they were purchased new without the option of anything but Vista. Regardless, the issue still exists, but apparently the tech community on AO has its blinders on too tight to get past their pipe dream visions to the real issues. Believe me, I'd love to have XP on these machines, it makes my job easier. But the users don't, and it's their computers so I have to work within Vista.

Unfortunately, like it or not, Windows is sticking around and Vista is going to become more and more common. If you recall, the same complaints were heard about XP in the beginning, with people screaming about "switch to linux" or "stick with 98SE". However, XP was running on like 98% of desktops running Windows before Vista came out... and Linux still has an immaterial market share and the Mac platform owns single digit percents.

So regardless, hold your beliefs and do what you want at home, but Windows isn't going away. Just like XP came into its prime after a couple service packs, Vista [hopefully] will too, and I don't feel like continually sticking with 2001 OSes until... forever. Yeah, Vista isn't as great or stable or useful, but tech companies don't care. They're making their new stuff for Vista and XP for now, but after a while, it will be just Vista. Just like with XP.

[Hexis]

XP was running on like 98% of desktops running Windows before Vista came out...

Yes, many folks are running XP. That's what a half decade does for you. Wait another 5 years, and I'm sure Vista will be ready for prime time.


So regardless, hold your beliefs and do what you want at home, but Windows isn't going away. Just like XP came into its prime after a couple service packs, Vista [hopefully] will too, and I don't feel like continually sticking with 2001 OSes until... forever. Yeah, Vista isn't as great or stable or useful, but tech companies don't care. They're making their new stuff for Vista and XP for now, but after a while, it will be just Vista. Just like with XP.

I don't think anyone is saying Windows is going away. More along the lines of Vista is not ready yet, don't bother with it. I'm pretty sure given time Vista will be a decent option. I don't know anyone that actually support an enterprise size network that are eager to 'upgrade' to vista.

My own thoughts on Vista: good for early testing, no good for production environment.

But what would I know? I'm just a silly mac user (and infosec professional at an multinational defense contractor).

[thecavemankevin]

Vista is known to have network issues like stated earlier. You can try a different wireless router like a D-link or netgear. I have several customers with the latest Linksys routers and vista and they just don't play nice together. At this point there is not much you can do other than tuff it out or try a different router.

[robnix]

This whole setup is at home, not work.

If you're running Quickbooks and 'higher end tax/accounting' software, then someones most likely using the laptop for work, which makes it a business environment.


The two laptops were not "upgraded" to Vista, they were purchased new without the option of anything but Vista.


Most major OEM's are now offering XP licenses and recovery CD's for customers that bought machines with Vista Preinstalled. There seemed to be this odd demand for them.


Regardless, the issue still exists, but apparently the tech community on AO has its blinders on too tight to get past their pipe dream visions to the real issues.

Sorry, it's you with the blinders, you're not listening to what anyone here is saying about VISTA. The REAL issue is with the poor implementation of the network stack in Vista. Wireless connectivity isn't the only existing issue. There's problems with large file transfers and DHCP requests as well.


Believe me, I'd love to have XP on these machines, it makes my job easier. But the users don't, and it's their computers so I have to work within Vista. Unfortunately, like it or not, Windows is sticking around and Vista is going to become more and more common.

Then explain to your users that until MS fixes the network issues that are in Vista, their best option is to run XP so they can do the work they need to in a productive manner. Ask them what feature it is in Vista that makes it so needed, and why XP can't do the job. If you're the person they look to when they need help then you need to help them make informed decisions.


If you recall, the same complaints were heard about XP in the beginning, with people screaming about "switch to linux" or "stick with 98SE". However, XP was running on like 98% of desktops running Windows before Vista came out... and Linux still has an immaterial market share and the Mac platform owns single digit percents.


It's about the tool that does the job, not who makes it.


So regardless, hold your beliefs and do what you want at home, but Windows isn't going away. Just like XP came into its prime after a couple service packs, Vista [hopefully] will too, and I don't feel like continually sticking with 2001 OSes until... forever. Yeah, Vista isn't as great or stable or useful, but tech companies don't care. They're making their new stuff for Vista and XP for now, but after a while, it will be just Vista. Just like with XP.

So it's better to run something that has problems that are serious enough to hamper productivity? You said it yourself, XP only came into it's prime after a couple of service packs, HOPEFULLY, Vista will was well. I've looked a the list of fixes, and unfortunately I don't think that the problems with wireless connections are part of it.

[robnix]

Vista is known to have network issues like stated earlier. You can try a different wireless router like a D-link or netgear. I have several customers with the latest Linksys routers and vista and they just don't play nice together. At this point there is not much you can do other than tuff it out or try a different router.

The T60p I use for work came with a Vista license. So we thought we'd test them out and see how Vista performed. Nice machine, 2Ghz Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, ATI Firegl Graphics, 7200RPM hard drive, no slouch at all. Vista was a pig on it, even the clean install I did felt sluggish. Took it home and it was painful getting it on my wireless with a Netgear router. I have XP running on it now, everything works great, it's a snappy performer, and my wireless works consistenly again.

[dave p]

vista is cool until you actually need to do some work, or have it work with hundreds of thousands of dollars of stuff you already have.

[teufelhunden]

If you're running Quickbooks and 'higher end tax/accounting' software, then someones most likely using the laptop for work, which makes it a business environment.


Most likely, but not.



Most major OEM's are now offering XP licenses and recovery CD's for customers that bought machines with Vista Preinstalled. There seemed to be this odd demand for them.

Something to look into, I did not know that. Thanks.




Sorry, it's you with the blinders, you're not listening to what anyone here is saying about VISTA. The REAL issue is with the poor implementation of the network stack in Vista. Wireless connectivity isn't the only existing issue. There's problems with large file transfers and DHCP requests as well.

I never implied that Vista didn't have problems. It quite obviously does, which I admit quite readily in the title of this thread. I'm not here to defend Vista or sing its praises. I don't use it on either of my own PCs [which, as an aside, run XP Pro/Ubuntu], but the PCs in question have Vista and are probably staying that way.




Then explain to your users that until MS fixes the network issues that are in Vista, their best option is to run XP so they can do the work they need to in a productive manner. Ask them what feature it is in Vista that makes it so needed, and why XP can't do the job. If you're the person they look to when they need help then you need to help them make informed decisions.

I don't think they're very pro-Vista, but my mom at least thinks it's silly to go backwards in OS's... I do suppose I could try talking her into XP, not that I am happily looking forward to killing a Saturday afternoon with the task of installing XP and all the other crap onto the laptops.




So it's better to run something that has problems that are serious enough to hamper productivity? You said it yourself, XP only came into it's prime after a couple of service packs, HOPEFULLY, Vista will was well. I've looked a the list of fixes, and unfortunately I don't think that the problems with wireless connections are part of it.

I guess this basically answers my questions -- Vista is just a PITA with wireless connections and it's not something I would solve by putting in a new router or something? That's the bottom line here?

[robnix]

Explain to your mom that down the road Vista will make a worthwhile upgrade, but for now the best option to getting everything working happily on your network is to move back to Vista. Technology that works well with existing technology isn't outdated, it's mature. If she complains, tell here that's fine, but at this point her choices are to:

a) Buy new wireless routers until you find one that works.
b) Stick with what she has and deal with the wireless issues until MS fixes it, or your router manufacturer releases new firmware.
c) Move to XP and have a laptop that works on the network with the other devices, plus it'll have much better performance.

[rkjunior303]

when my roommate bought a new laptop, first thing i did for him when he brought it home was format it and install XP.. he was amazed how much faster it ran.. Even with 2g ram the thing was a pig.

[BeaverEater]

ive got a wireless router hooked up to my 360, my laptop with XP and my room mates laptop with Vista, and we have no problems at all. Its a linksys router we picked up at best buy

[tribalman]

scrap your pos pc and trade up for a mac. and with the new osx leopard out you will be the hero of the show!

trade up for a mac? :rofl:
windows has removed the BSOD mostly, now Macs have gained it. http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/10/30/leopard_bears_its_teeth_crashes_systems/1




Most major OEM's are now offering XP licenses and recovery CD's for customers that bought machines with Vista Preinstalled. There seemed to be this odd demand for them.


Something to look into, I did not know that. Thanks.
yes they do, but only for ultimate and one step down. home is outta luck.

[tribalman]

on my home network i'm running a few computers into the router, including my classic xbox. i also have 4 laptops wirelessly connecting to it. 2 of them are using different versions of Vista, one of them is using 98SE with wireless card. because i will ocassionaly go online with my DS and W98, i am forced to use WEP. as far as i know, the vista laptops aren't having any trouble, i'm not hearing any complaints. try switching encryption protocols. yes it might be annoying to change the laptop, why(i mean wii), and 360 to connect why not give it a try. if you can still connect all the game platforms and keep vista, everyone is happy.

[teufelhunden]

on my home network i'm running a few computers into the router, including my classic xbox. i also have 4 laptops wirelessly connecting to it. 2 of them are using different versions of Vista, one of them is using 98SE with wireless card. because i will ocassionaly go online with my DS and W98, i am forced to use WEP. as far as i know, the vista laptops aren't having any trouble, i'm not hearing any complaints. try switching encryption protocols. yes it might be annoying to change the laptop, why(i mean wii), and 360 to connect why not give it a try. if you can still connect all the game platforms and keep vista, everyone is happy.

Will give it a shot, thanks.