My Tac-One is not working, please help!!!

[Digler45]

Just received it today, i was very happy.

I took it to my local pb shop, had them air it up and test it. We tested the level 10, and ULE, and everything seems to work great. there seems to be an issue if you "short stroke" it when trying to walk the trigger. It seems that the bolt gets stuck part way, and then pulling the trigger does nothing. Only way to resolve it is to put you finger down the feedneck and push the bolt back, then it functions normal again. any idea's?

Also, had another strange issue. we took the HPA tank off, filled it, and put it back on, and now it seems like it is in a "full auto mode". you can hold down the trigger and it just keeps firing. just one single trigger pull fires 4-5 times. we tried everything, but cannot get this to stop. Basically, it fire like a fully auto electro. What makes it worse, is that the level 10 does not appear to be working anymore. If you put your finger down the feedneck, the bolt stops, and just stays there, and leaks air. You have to push the bolt back to get it firing again, but it remains in "full auto". Any ideas?

We also tried changing the bolt spring for a longer one, and it would not fire at all. Changed it back to the shorter one, and it is firing "full auto" again.

I dont know anything about mags, im screwed. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[secretweaponevan]

It seems that the bolt gets stuck part way, and then pulling the trigger does nothing. Only way to resolve it is to put you finger down the feedneck and push the bolt back, then it functions normal again. any idea's?

First, start off with 2 shims in the power tube.
Second, make sure that the carrier o-ring is broken in with a few hundred shots. It probably already is.
Third, you want the largest carrier that doesn't leak, not the smallest one that will allow the marker to fire.
Fourth, remember that mags love airgun oil.

Follow the instructions here: http://www.automags.org/resource/level10/index.shtml



Also, had another strange issue. we took the HPA tank off, filled it, and put it back on, and now it seems like it is in a "full auto mode". you can hold down the trigger and it just keeps firing. just one single trigger pull fires 4-5 times. we tried everything, but cannot get this to stop. Basically, it fire like a fully auto electro.

Sounds like you have too many shims in the ULE trigger on/off. Reduce and try again. Also check your sear for wear, but that probably isn't it.
Also, you want to make sure that there is 1/16" gap from the trigger pin to the back of the trigger when the trigger is in its natural resting position (not pulled, you usually should never mess with the trigger pin, it is set from the factory).



What makes it worse, is that the level 10 does not appear to be working anymore. If you put your finger down the feedneck, the bolt stops, and just stays there, and leaks air. You have to push the bolt back to get it firing again, but it remains in "full auto". Any ideas?

Again, sounds like too tight a carrier. Try moving up one or more sizes until you find the largest one that does not leak when the marker is just sitting there (trigger not pulled). The full auto sounds like too many shims in the on/off.



We also tried changing the bolt spring for a longer one, and it would not fire at all. Changed it back to the shorter one, and it is firing "full auto" again.

Chrono the marker. You may have to use a shorter spring in order to get the marker to fire at a lower velocity. The level 10 needs spring tuning to fire at different velocities. Again, the full auto sounds like too many shims in the ULE trigger on/off. Try getting the level 10 tuned before installing the ULE trigger kit.

Good luck!

[Digler45]

Thank you for the info. Everything you mention makes absolute sense. I will eliminate the ULE from the picture, and see if it still fires in fll auto (i suspect it wont). Then i will work on the level 10 (without ULE).

The only thing that does not make sense to me is that it was working (not full auto), then all of a sudden started. Does that make any sense? I would think that if the ULE had too many shims, it would have done that from the start, no?

Definitely will take the ULE out and see what we get.

[BigEvil]

All good advice.

Try an easy fix.. just add 2 shims to the lvl10 and try it, if no luck then go up one carrier size. Also, when the bolt sticks, try to loosen or snug the frame screws and see what happens. Sometimes you can over tighten one and it makes the body torque.

[Digler45]

Ok, i still cannot figure it out. managed to get it working at one point today with 5 and 7 shims in the ULE. but then, it stopped, and went back into "Full Auto" mode...

I tried it with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 shims in the ULE, does the same thing. Replaced the stock on/off, and it does the same thing. since it was doing it without the ULE, i figured it had to have something to do with the Level10/valve. i tried multiple carriers, and everyone does the same thing. i am now running the largest carrier without leaks. when i air it up, and pull the trigger, it stays in full auto mode. even tried 1, 2, 3 shims in the level10, but i still cannot get it going. :cry:

I doesnt appear that it can be the ULE as it does it with the stock on/off in there also. Only difference is that i have to pull the trigger harder to get it to fire.

Here is a short video of what it sounds like. the bolt sticks at the end, and air leaks because my tank went empty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z-8MJjWHto

Please help. Thanks.

[secretweaponevan]

Watched the video. Thank you, that helped, as the trigger was not moving forward between each cycle.

First, check your trigger rod length. With the safety engaged and the marker gassed up, there should be a 1/16" gap between the end of the trigger rod and the back of the trigger.

Second, gas up the marker with the trigger pulled. If it leaks, or goes full auto, you have an on/off o-ring leak/problem. Check your on/off pin for a burr that could be nicking the o-ring causing it to leak. Replace your on/off o-ring. Make sure that you put your on/off back in correctly with all of the necessary parts.

Here is an image of the ULE Trigger on/off assembly.
http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/training/agdtech03/ule_onoff2.jpg

Here is an image of the stock classic on/off assembly.
http://www.paintball-atlantic.fr/pages/fichestechniques/PaintballAtlantic/Air_Gun_Designs_Automag_c.gif

Please let us know.

[Digler45]

Thanks again.

I will double check all orings, and the trigger pin gap. I am assuming that if i gas it up with the trigger pulled, it will go into full auto. I do not believe that this would be an on/off oring issue though, as it does the same thing with both the stock on/off, and the ULE, but aything is possible.

I came across the following while googling this issue (appears to be the same issue):
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=182540

the resolution:
"Got my Tac-One working perfectly.

Turns out there was an o-ring misplaced -- the one that is supposed to go in the face of the rear-half of the regulator body. Instead, it was embedded in the the reg-seat holder (the side with the cross-wise grooves) and preventing it from moving freely. After placing it in its correct location, there hasn't been a hitch in the gun's operation and consistency is way up."

He actually sent it to AGD, and had them figure it out. Problem is, im not exactly sure what everything is that is mentioned above. I am quite familiar with the Level 10, and ULE by now, but the rest of the valve assembly i am a little shaky on. Any idea what he is talking about? Thanks again.

[doc_Zox]

Having the thumbscrew from the grip frame rear, tightened too far can torque the valve and cause jamming

[Coralis]

Turns out there was an o-ring misplaced -- the one that is supposed to go in the face of the rear-half of the regulator body. Instead, it was embedded in the the reg-seat holder (the side with the cross-wise grooves) and preventing it from moving freely. After placing it in its correct location, there hasn't been a hitch in the gun's operation and consistency is way up."

From what i can gather he is talking about the regulator seat oring

http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/downloads/retroexploded1.pdf

[Digler45]

secretweaponevan - ULE Diagram is not showing up.

[Digler45]

Thanks again.
I came across the following while googling this issue (appears to be the same issue):
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=182540

the resolution:
"Got my Tac-One working perfectly.

Turns out there was an o-ring misplaced -- the one that is supposed to go in the face of the rear-half of the regulator body. Instead, it was embedded in the the reg-seat holder (the side with the cross-wise grooves) and preventing it from moving freely. After placing it in its correct location, there hasn't been a hitch in the gun's operation and consistency is way up."


Diagram can be found here: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=194223

I took the valve apart, and sure enough the regulator seat o-ring (34) was infact stuck in the regulator seat holder (32). popped the oring out, put a drop of oil, and put it where it belonged. Screwed it back together and took it apart a few times to make sure it didnt get stuck again (it didnt). Aired it up, and we are back to single shots once again.

I will update if the problem arises again. For now i degassed it, and gassed it back up a couple times, and it is still firing properly. At this point in time, i am a Happy Mag Owner. thanks for everyone's help, greatly appreciated.

[secretweaponevan]

secretweaponevan - ULE Diagram is not showing up.
Oopsie! Warpig must have gotten upset that I linked an image on their site. it can be found here:
http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/training/agdtech03/ule_onoff2.jpg

Glad to hear your problem is fixed. I never knew what the symptoms of a missing reg seat were. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle...

Edit: Huh. Now the image is showing up for me in my original post. Strange.

[Digler45]

Oopsie! Warpig must have gotten upset that I linked an image on their site. it can be found here:
http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/training/agdtech03/ule_onoff2.jpg

Glad to hear your problem is fixed. I never knew what the symptoms of a missing reg seat were. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle...

Edit: Huh. Now the image is showing up for me in my original post. Strange.

Still doesnt show up for me, and link doesnt seem to work right now. Thanks though. I have gassed it up several times throughout the day, and it is still operating normally. I seem to have this problem licked. thanks again.

[secretweaponevan]

hehe, no thanks to me! You got this one licked on your own, and learned the inner workings of the level 10 and ULE Trigger kit to boot!

Happy to see another mag owner enjoying their marker!

[Digler45]

Yes, it is true, i know the level 10, and ULE inside and out now. i love mags, there isnt much too them at all. knew it had to be somehting simple. If i can do it, anyone can. I have never taken a marker apart before.

[Digler45]

It's back!

ok, so i decided to air it up and test it again this morning, and guess what??? FULL AUTO AGAIN!!!

Took it apart, and sure enough, the o-ring was back, stuck in the regulator seat holder. popped the o-ring out, and back into its normal position, screwed the valve back together, and she is back to firing single shots like no ones business.

It's a very quick fix, but could turn out to be very frustrating. Guess i may need to replace that o-ring.

[billmi]

Oopsie! Warpig must have gotten upset that I linked an image on their site.

No, just tired of folks dissing our sponsors by hot-linking images, so that the work we do gets shown in forums without the sponsors getting recognized by their banners showing on the page when someone looks at the graphic. We've blocked hot-linking of the technical section for several years.



Edit: Huh. Now the image is showing up for me in my original post. Strange.

If you link to the page, not the graphic it will work fine (or if someone visits the page, the link will work for them.)

Linking to this page, folks can see the image without a problem.

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/training/agdtech03/