Tac-One vs Ion

[Avale187]

Hey All,
Now let me start by saying I know this is automags.org, so most of you probably own Mags of some sort. You will probably have the knee jerk reaction to say "TAC-ONE!!". :clap:
This is not what I am looking for. I've been out of the paintball game for a while, and am looking to get back into it. I currently own a stupid pirahana, and that was the reason I stopped playing in the first place. So, all that being said.

If you own a Tac-One, please tell me about it. Likes, dislikes. If you own an ION, same thing. What I am really looking for is an opinion from someone that owns BOTH markers. I'm tired of reading sales pitches, looking for some real words from real players.

Thanks,
-=Avale=-

[Foxworthy]

I don't own a Tac or an Ion but I do own a SP-8 and a RT Pro. Which in both cases are basically the same thing. I also know a few people who own Ion and a few people that had Ions.

The Ion is an good for its price. I haven't seen many people have problems with them unless they fooled around and upgraded the internals or just didn't know how to set the boards. It also has the advantage of being able to ramp and it has eyes.

The RT Pro is more expensive but doesn't need performance upgrades. The Level Ten Bolt is awesome when tuned properly. I also tend to be a bit faster pulling the trigger of the RT then I was with the SP-8 on semi. It's nice an easy to clean as well.

Now the Tac has the advantage of rails for mounting scopes and stuff over the Ion. Which is good if you want that and if you want you cna tune the Tac to be reactive with the right amount of pressure going into it.

You can't really go wrong with the mag. They hold their value well and can last years and are rather simple. The Ion isn't made as well and seems to need more preventive maintenance. Though I'm sure there are better electro's out there if you're willing to spend the price of a Tac on one.

The best bet would be to try to find someone with a mag or an ion and play a few games with them and also have them show you what they do for maintenance. That will help you far more than any of us could on the forum. Though that isn't an option for everybody.

[tebo]

I personally really like ions. I have owned two so far and a couple more to come. Ions currently sell for 180-200$ new and ever under 150$ used. For 300$ You could get your self a stock, a feed neck, qev, and a nice trigger. The stock feed neck does no clamp, it has 3 orings which can be taken out to fit your hopper, or you can buy a clamping feed neck for around 30$. The stock trigger has some side to side play and does not have a roller bearing. There are many tiggers out there for ion but i suggest either a violent products scythe trigger or anything from nedsignz. A qev will allow you gun to shoot faster than 22 bps(the stock board i capped at 17 though) A qev will also allow you to get more shots per tank with the right dwell setting. Some people get 100-300 extra shots! I just felt i should share my ion knowledge seeing as most people here don't like smartparts. If you have any questions about ions Pm me i know everything there is about ions and have used pretty much every upgrade out there.

[CaptainMorgan13]

Honestly I have used both mags, and ions... Yeah to be honest they are just too unreliable. I own a tac-one and personally I don't think that I will ever stay w/ another gun. I have 2 shockers, an imp, tac-one, phantoms, buzzard, and all kinds of stacked tube designs. I have my share of guns, but personally I am starting to get used to having a mag again and it's already more reliable than either ions. Stick w/ a mag, if you need a rock to throw at someone a talon is a lot cheaper...

Captain

[Avale187]

I own a tac-one and personally I don't think that I will ever stay w/ another gun.
Captain

Huh? Are you trashing the gun here? or saying it's awesome?

I have heard that ADG guns are rock solid, many many times. It seems to be a theme.

Let me also state that I am looking for a gun to play woodsball with primarily. I don't want to be able to miss someone 22 times per second. I'd rather be able to hit them twice a second, with the ability to throw 20/bps if I really need to. Honestly, I'm going for a sniper setup.

[Railgun]

The biggest part of all this is which do YOU want. Electro or mechanical? Also you're talking about mil sim vs "space gun" styling. It's probably more pertinent to be comparing a ULE vertical feed body to the Ion but there's still the mechanical trigger feel vs electro "mouse click" feel.

Although I don't have an Ion I've played with a few electros now. My choice is to sell the electros and concentrate on the mechanical stuff. I just find that it's more fun to feel the trigger moving instead of the lifeless finger fanning of an electro. So I guess you know how I feel now.... :D

I should add that woodsball is my favourite form of paintballing. Ive been on the recieving end of incoming hailstorms more than once and it didn't make much difference to me in terms of ducking for cover. As for not being able to shoot more than around 4 to 5 bps I can't really say that if I'd been able to launch my own hailstorm that I'd have gotten more than another kill or two over the times I've been out. And again I guess it's a personal thing but I'd rather miss a few and be more proud of the kills I do get with my mechanical fire rate than have to rely on launching a hailstorm to up my kill ratio by one or two.

But then I'm one of those aberrant sort that is looking forward to getting good enough to go up against the semis with my pump.

[SN toter]

Quality, thats the #1 biggest difference imo.

The Mag is;
rugged, can take a LOAD of abuse,
doesn't need batteries,
will work fine in inclimate weather
it's not made by Smart Farts.

Also the Tac one is considerably more expensive BUT you get what you pay for. I'll never shoot an ion over a mag and yes, I have owned both. The ion was great for a couple months of play but after that...well it was just one thing after another. On the other hand I've had TONS of mags over the last 12 years and aside from a blown or worn oring haven't had any problems. Another thing to factor in is resale. Used ions are worth about as much as a mason jar full of dirt.

[Avale187]

Lol railgun. Yeah, I'd like to stay mechanical. I've never actually shot an electro, so I don't know if I would like it or not. I do know I don't want to worry about extra parts/batteries. That's why I want to get a Q-loader. No batteries, no fuss. Downside, impossible to reload on the field. To me it's just one or many more things that can go wrong with the gun, when all I really want to do is shoot someone. :)

[viper-mayhem]

I had 2 IONs and an RT PRO ULE. I traded 1 ION for an Angel LCD and the other I gave to my son. When I play speedball, the LCD is a backup to my G7. You need the speed just to keep up. But when I play Big Game Scenario's, I feel detached using an electro so I all ways pull out my mag. Yes, it's more expensive than the ION but when you are out for 8 hours in the woods, like me, I end up having problems with my electro hoppers but with the mag, it is all ways working. Now I am thinking about getting a Tac one and letting my son us the RT Pro out in the woods. Another good feature on a mag is if you have an adjustable tank/reg output, you can get the RT effect, and with a little practice, you can go from single shot, burst to full auto just with the trigger input with the mag. The ION, you will have to open the grip up when you get back to camp.

[tebo]

Huh? Are you trashing the gun here? or saying it's awesome?

I have heard that ADG guns are rock solid, many many times. It seems to be a theme.

Let me also state that I am looking for a gun to play woods ball with primarily. I don't want to be able to miss someone 22 times per second. I'd rather be able to hit them twice a second, with the ability to throw 20/bps if I really need to. Honestly, I'm going for a sniper setup.
I wasn't saying the main benefit for a qev is more bps although some people want it that way. The main reason for a qev is to make your gun more efficient and it acts as a grease trap to keep grease out of your solenoid. EDIT: I felt like adding this, you are on a set dedicated for automags and most people here dislike smartparts, mainly due to them practicing competitive business

[Avale187]

OooOO question on the ULE. So I saw a video, but I really didn't get it. Is there a spot on the trigger where the bounce back will cause it to fire again, hence full auto? If so, is this allowed at paintball fields? I'm in chicago, so challenge park, Operation Paintball, etc.

[Railgun]

Wha'dya mean you can't load a Q pod on the field? That's what the backpack and pump'y thing is for. Granted it takes a bit more time and it helps to have a place to hang up the loader but it's not that much worse than just popping the lid and pouring in the balls.

I got an Automag 68 Classic a few months back and really like it. I'm strongly thinking that I may just concentrate on a concept of a Warp left ULE body combined with the Qloader with an RT Xvalve setup. This sort of setup is winning some big points with my emotions at the moment. Only stick in the mud is that I really like single finger triggers and I'd like to set up a 90 degree single trigger frame for it. I'm either going to modify a CCM 89 pump cocker frame or make my own if this project goes ahead. Another option I'm considering is a Warp DOWN and feed the balls up through a hollow foregrip that joins into the Qloader holding cap. Mind you that means moving the trigger frame back and that would be a LOT more custom work. That Wdown bit is just a dream that occured yesterday. Gotta do some serious measuring to see if it's at all practical.

[madcrisis]

its kind of like a tippmann response trigger but it doesnt force ur finger back and is much smoother. i love my ion but if u play woodsball get a tac-1. theres so many different things u can do with a mag to change it. if u get sick of the mech (which u wont) you can turn it into a pneumag which has as light as a pull as electro or u can even make it electro.

[Toll]

If cost is an issue, an Ion is a fine choice. They can be had cheaply and they (with various modes) can let absolute sloths shoot as fast as practiced vets. The problem is that if you get one ; You will never be able to rid yourself of it. The resale is so low it's disgusting.

[mostpeople]

The Ion is a plastic toy, and it WILL break on you... and that will suck. Maintenance is more complicated too. The trigger is sloppy, but some people like it that way. It feels plastic, its loud, its cheap. Why? They have to make it cheap in china to sell it at the price you buy it for.

On the other hand, the tac one is aluminum, and quality. You will get higher BPS without dropoff on the tac one anyways. And with the lvl 10 properly tuned, the ACE argument is moot. The Tac one will force you to buy an HPA tank, then again you cant really run an ion on c02 that well anyways.

I have owned tac-ones, and I have shot Ion's on a few occasions, and considering the new smart parts patent crap thats going on I would never support them again.


Do you want to know my reccomendation? Build your own Xvalve'd automag. Thats the beauty of the mag, the parts are almost all interchangable.. you arent stuck with a tac one, you can get an ULE body, airwalk trigger frame.. and you will end up with a quality gun that is 10x better than any plastic ion which will break on you down the road.


(yes im biased, but get over it its still the truth! :rofl: )

[mostpeople]

Look at the sexiness you could make..


Here is my current collection

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/lasrsktr/IMG_0157.sized.jpg (http://www.hostdub.com/lasrsktr:IMG_0157)

http://www.hostdub.com/albums/lasrsktr/IMG_0041.sized.jpg (http://www.hostdub.com/lasrsktr:IMG_0041)

and its ever growing....

[punkncat]

The Ion is what it is. An inexpensive, entry level electronic marker. Its performance out of the box is superior to anything in its price range especially as pertaining to firepower. ITs got all of the basic features of markers costing MUCH more, and is upgradable to enhance its already solid paint slinging ability. That in itself is the key. By the time you finish doing the required upgrades, which will at the very least be a decent barrel, new trigger, feedneck, and a QEV you will have invested enough money to have purchased a nicer marker from the getgo....IE nearly a rail, mini, etc...and almost enough to buy a stock RTULE.
The Ion will break down, you will have issues with maint. just like any other marker. Maybe a bit more than a better marker, just due to quality issues.

The RT ULE (or Tac if you prefer) is rock solid, great construction, and really requires nothing out of the box short of a clamping feed in some cases. You will have some issues tuning the LX bolt. No big deal for most, but it requires a break in time, and some minor adjusting after wear to work optimally (sp?). With the addition of an adjustable HPA tank, you can adjust the pressure to increase reactivity, and gain firepower increase in BPS. Once its tuned it requires a couple of drops of oil every now and again. To clean it, leave it aired up and swish it in a bucket of water. Pull it out fire a few times, dry with a towel if you feel like it, and put her in the gear bag until next time. No batteries, no hoses to come off, solenoids to go out, boards to fry......most bulletproof marker made IMO.

Its all about what you are looking for. The Ion is more suited to and easier to make comply with Speedball/PSP rules. The Mag can come under those rules, but doesn't ramp "legally" when on an adjustable air source. Some people will consider the RT effect "auto".
Good luck in your choice.

[Twistedpsyche]

I currently own both. I'm new to the Tac One, but it is quickly becoming my favorite. My Ion tends to annoy me due to the fact that working on it is a pain. I hate having to deal with the electronics, the eyes, the wires. Adjusting things is a pain, having to tweak the settings on the board. Having to worry about my switch not working, batteries dying......

I would go with a Tac One over an Ion any day of the week. If fast shooting is your thing there are Pneumag conversions you can do, or have done for you.

The Tac one is more rugged, more reliable. The only downside is it is a bit of an airhog, compared to an Ion or something similar. Oh and another thing, I was very surprised how light the Tac One is!! It is very very light.

Hope that helps. I have a cold so it's probably not as clear as it could be. If you decide to buy an Ion let me know. I'll sell ya mine. :)

[tech-chan]

I'm a tech for a local shop and I have seen this many, many times: Guy comes in and is set on buying Ion, He buys Ion and is happy for a month. Guy comes back in and wants upgrades. We fix it up and give it back to him. Guy comes back in and says, "It just broke on me, I did'nt touch anything!" Thats what happens when we sell an Ion. This is what happens when we sell a Tac: Guy#2 comes in and buys a Tac after much discussion. Guy#2 does not come back and want upgrades besides a barrel kit. Guy#2 is much happier and plays without worry.
Honestly, if you buy an Ion, it will break. It is made out of plastic. And I'm not gonna fix it.

[MedicDVG]

The Ion is what it is. An inexpensive, entry level electronic marker. Its performance out of the box is superior to anything in its price range especially as pertaining to firepower. ITs got all of the basic features of markers costing MUCH more, and is upgradable to enhance its already solid paint slinging ability. That in itself is the key. By the time you finish doing the required upgrades, which will at the very least be a decent barrel, new trigger, feedneck, and a QEV you will have invested enough money to have purchased a nicer marker from the getgo....IE nearly a rail, mini, etc...and almost enough to buy a stock RTULE.
The Ion will break down, you will have issues with maint. just like any other marker. Maybe a bit more than a better marker, just due to quality issues.

The RT ULE (or Tac if you prefer) is rock solid, great construction, and really requires nothing out of the box short of a clamping feed in some cases. You will have some issues tuning the LX bolt. No big deal for most, but it requires a break in time, and some minor adjusting after wear to work optimally (sp?). With the addition of an adjustable HPA tank, you can adjust the pressure to increase reactivity, and gain firepower increase in BPS. Once its tuned it requires a couple of drops of oil every now and again. To clean it, leave it aired up and swish it in a bucket of water. Pull it out fire a few times, dry with a towel if you feel like it, and put her in the gear bag until next time. No batteries, no hoses to come off, solenoids to go out, boards to fry......most bulletproof marker made IMO.

Its all about what you are looking for. The Ion is more suited to and easier to make comply with Speedball/PSP rules. The Mag can come under those rules, but doesn't ramp "legally" when on an adjustable air source. Some people will consider the RT effect "auto".
Good luck in your choice.

/End thread.

It is all there, nothing more needs to be said.

[Avale187]

Lol, yeah, I guess everyone is saying the same song and dance. I do have a question though. Ok so, if I go to say Challenge park with the ULE/X-valve combo. Am I going to get yelled at/kicked out? Do they consider that "Semi" auto?

[JRingold]

Lol, yeah, I guess everyone is saying the same song and dance. I do have a question though. Ok so, if I go to say Challenge park with the ULE/X-valve combo. Am I going to get yelled at/kicked out? Do they consider that "Semi" auto?

If it is setup correctly and doesn't bounce or go Full Auto, you'll be fine. If you're messing with it and it bounces the trigger uncontrollably, they'll probably yell at you.

[trevorjk]

if you have the correct ON/OFF pin in the mag AND/OR you have the correct imput pressure you should not have to worry about the mag bouncing. however, to get the mag to bounce you will need to up the pressure from a standard 800-850psi to 900 plus or use a different sized ON/OFF pin.

[dixieoutfitter94]

if you buy an ion, you will loose a but load of money (unless you buy it used) but a tac-one can get complicated.... if I were you I would buy a used ion with 400 bucks in upgrades for 200 on the nation THEN buy a tac-one after you get back into the sport and know what goes down :cool:

[DBC]

To me it almost like comparing apples and oranges. You have to decide two things: 1) Mechanical or Electronic; 2) Speedball or Mil-sim. Once you decide those two things, you will know better what to do. I own a Tac-one and it has been great. If I had to do it all over again, I would get the same basic marker but with a different body, one that was not mil-sim.

I have shot an Ion before but I prefer the way the mag feels while shooting. If you will be playing nothing but speedball (which I doubt), then the Tac-one is probably not the way to go. However, having said that, I use my Tac-one to play speedball often and I can hold my own.

[Enemy]

can i throw it out there its brand new but i say Porto SlG its from dye wich isnt smartparts and looks to have a simple solid design go to pbn under the dye forum to see pics and tear downs as wells as vids