For those of you that go to church, I have a question

[punkncat]

I want to start by saying that I realize this subject could easily go taboo, IF it doesn't just get deleted right away. Please try not to take this anywhere that would force it to be done. If you are offended by a religious thread, pls just go elsewhere. I am not trying to start a theological debate.

I just started going to church again, after being away for a long time. When I last went, I remember churh being very conservative and classic. I really don't know how to word it, but it was generally a calm and "quiet" affair, where even the music tended to be just a small choir singing from the hymnal, and a service consisting of a study in a specific part of the scripture being the "meat and potatoes" of the time.
Today I went to one of the large contemporary churches that happen to be close to the house....I mean hey, I am in Ga. You can't walk out and throw a nickel w/o hitting a church, and its not a bad thing....The service was very flashy and modern. There was a band and lights, soundstage, large flat screen monitors. It was rather overwhelming. I was not sure what to think.

I plan on checking a few others in the area out, and even going back there another time or two to see if I acclimate to it. The key is I have to find and nuture my spirituality. I am not sure all the glitz and glam was for me. Not to say I think it was over the top or anything, just nothing like my grandpa's church, if you know what I mean.

Have all churches gotten like this?

[flyboy]

No not all have. A lot of it depends on the denomination and such. Some churches will have a contemporary service early and a more traditional one was a second service. Some, like mine, have a blended service of both traditional and contemporary themes.

[rawbutter]

Yeah.... it depends a lot on the style of that particular church. Even within denominations, you'll get variation in the type of worship. The contemporary style is becoming more popular, but there are still plenty of churches that offer the more traditional services. Just look around and find something you like.

Personally, I always found that the churches I like best are those that offer small groups to join. Going to a Sunday service with hundreds of other people is cool, but it's not going to offer that personal connection that makes it really worth it. When you can join a Wednesday night Bible study, though, you can make that deeper connection.

[maxama10]

I was raised Catholic, became agnostic, and had a friend that dragged me to her Bapatist church in GA before I moved.


Catholic churches, in my experience, are always like how you say, quiet, calm etc...

The Bapatist chruch I went to was also like what you say, modern with lights and stage and band and xbox's and ps2's and flatscreens and.... food court, basketball court. It was all to much, I felt like church shouldn't be a game, if you're gonna go, go to honor god or don't go at all.

I still don't go to church, but if I decided to go back, It would be the catholic church.


Just my 2 cents.

[turbo chicken]

as stated they aren't all like that ...

i'd encourage to try a church a handfull of times before looking at another ... that way you can get a good feel of the service. Also handing around for a month or so will also let you find out about different groups (if there are any) you can meet with. Big churches often have different way for you to get involved...

again ... go a few times ... church hopping will only confuse you and you tend to compare rather than forming an opnion without outside influences.

[MoeMag]

I was raised Catholic, became agnostic, and had a friend that dragged me to her Bapatist church in GA before I moved.


Catholic churches, in my experience, are always like how you say, quiet, calm etc...

The Bapatist chruch I went to was also like what you say, modern with lights and stage and band and xbox's and ps2's and flatscreens and.... food court, basketball court. It was all to much, I felt like church shouldn't be a game, if you're gonna go, go to honor god or don't go at all.

I still don't go to church, but if I decided to go back, It would be the catholic church.


Just my 2 cents.

I second that almost to the word.
except I grew up in the Episcopal church. It's not quite as traditional as a cathloc mass... but its nothing close to being modern.

[txaggie08]

If your looking for something a bit quieter than the contemporary baptist groups, look into church of christ(and no thats not the mormons).


Some of them are way to far out in right field, but often they tend to be fairly moderate, small, and conservative institutions. I grew up in Church of christ, still attend services occasionally, though my personal religious focus is more on good works for others than worrying about my own destiny...

[wetwrks]

The Bapatist chruch I went to was also like what you say, modern with lights and stage and band and xbox's and ps2's and flatscreens and.... food court, basketball court. It was all to much, I felt like church shouldn't be a game, if you're gonna go, go to honor god or don't go at all.

This actually depends on the denomination of each Baptist church. They can range from very conservative to very liberal. My father is a Baptist paster and his church has a large screen for showing the words to the songs, there is a pianist, a guitarist, and a drummer. They tone things down considerably. No video games, food court, or basketball court. What is done is done to promote worship. Not to promote entertainment.

[CKY_Alliance]

This actually depends on the denomination of each Baptist church. They can range from very conservative to very liberal. My father is a Baptist paster and his church has a large screen for showing the words to the songs, there is a pianist, a guitarist, and a drummer. They tone things down considerably. No video games, food court, or basketball court. What is done is done to promote worship. Not to promote entertainment.


The church I attended on occasion growing up was a quaint, simple, church. You went, you sang, you listend to the sermon, you prayed and went home...

This same church is like the one described above, they had to build a new sanctuary because of growth. Well when they did they also included the big screen prjectors and a full band...they use the projecters for the lyrics and to put up the scripture being read...so it's not too bad..but still I think somewhere in the Bible there is something about vanity... but I might just be crazy...

And I say that not only becuse of what I described, just becasue the new building seems like it was built with "hey we have to be bigger and better then the next church" in mind.


That said...I don't really go to church to often and when I do it's no longer that one.

[warbeak2099]

I was raised Catholic and despite having turned agnostic/Pantheist, I favor Catholic mass over Evangelical type masses. That stage business with the monitors and the speakers is idiotic IMO. If you're going to go to church, go to a church, not a damned light show. Not that I agree with Christianity, but those moronic Evangelicals are not Christians, they're businessmen and entertainers.

[bornl33t]

Not that I'm an authority on it but I think allot of these "hype"churches are trying to appeal to a crowd that is over whelmed with entertainment that sitting still is well, not entertaining. Churches are trying.

On the other hand, churches are frequently split over whether there should be a type of dress code or if music is allowed to have drums, etc.

In all honesty if you look at a churches authority the bible, there is no where in the bible where any of the above are prohibited or condoned. My PERSONAL OPINION is that if you are going to worship then act and look like you're in the presents of something worthy of your worship.

I'm sorry you're experience wasn't what you where looking for. I sure hope that this church wasn't void of content and you did hear something worth going for. :)

[Altimas]

Make Joyful noise unto the lord. Clashing cymbals etc etc.. Times are changing and people are starting to find real worship at church now instead of the monotonous traditional routine over and over each Sunday. Church isn't supposed to be a building anyways it's supposed to be a body of believers.

[warbeak2099]

Church isn't supposed to be a building

It's also not supposed to be a show or money making scheme. Unfortunately, that's what modern American Evangelicalism is.

[mstrdbz]

I want to start by saying that I realize this subject could easily go taboo, IF it doesn't just get deleted right away. Please try not to take this anywhere that would force it to be done. If you are offended by a religious thread, pls just go elsewhere. I am not trying to start a theological debate.

I just started going to church again, after being away for a long time. When I last went, I remember churh being very conservative and classic. I really don't know how to word it, but it was generally a calm and "quiet" affair, where even the music tended to be just a small choir singing from the hymnal, and a service consisting of a study in a specific part of the scripture being the "meat and potatoes" of the time.
Today I went to one of the large contemporary churches that happen to be close to the house....I mean hey, I am in Ga. You can't walk out and throw a nickel w/o hitting a church, and its not a bad thing....The service was very flashy and modern. There was a band and lights, soundstage, large flat screen monitors. It was rather overwhelming. I was not sure what to think.

I plan on checking a few others in the area out, and even going back there another time or two to see if I acclimate to it. The key is I have to find and nuture my spirituality. I am not sure all the glitz and glam was for me. Not to say I think it was over the top or anything, just nothing like my grandpa's church, if you know what I mean.

Have all churches gotten like this?


Not at all. The church I attend has a more traditional service in the morning with a more contemporary service in the evening. We usually just have a piano or keyboard, a guitarist and a few vocalist. We even still use a projector to display the words on the wall for the people that don't know the songs.

Do I think a full band has a place in the church? You bet! Especially if the band members are there to lead worship and not glorify themselves.

Flashy light show? Not so much. I think the lights should be used to help the congregation enter an attitude of worship.

Soundstage? Why not? In many churches I've been in, including the one I'm in now, the preacher, evangelist, etc, rarely ever stays on the stage.

Monitors? Sure. Especially if the size of the congregation warrants multipule monitors. IMO it's easier and quicker for a single person behind a computer to throw lyrics, verses etc, up on multiple monitors than it is for multipule people to try and do the same thing with projectors.

If you looking for something akin to your grandpa's church, more power to ya. One of the few things about having a church on every corner is that you'll most likely find what you're looking for. Please just remember that just because you attend a service and it's not you're style doesn't mean that you're wrong or their wrong, just different.

[spwz99]

Make Joyful noise unto the lord. Clashing cymbals etc etc.. Times are changing and people are starting to find real worship at church now instead of the monotonous traditional routine over and over each Sunday. Church isn't supposed to be a building anyways it's supposed to be a body of believers.

I was raised in a very traditional, small, country church. We sang hyms and church was a quiet serious matter where everyone was very reverent and respectful.
Two years ago I moved off to college and had to find a new church for the next four years. One of the churches I visited had a smoke machine and a flashy light show they used during the worship service...I was completely distracted all service and couldn't concentrate on what I was supposed to be singing.

For me, the small country church was where my worship was 'real'.

While I agree with you that the Church is supposed to be more than the building that contains it, I do not agree that 'modern' worship is any better or more real than past worship was. While I think that the increased freedom during worship that comes with more contemporary churches can be a good thing, we can't let ourselves believe that our worship is any more real than when churches had a piano and hymns. I personally believe that many modern worship songs are very uninspired and very bland.

Worship is a state of mind and heart, not a matter of the song you sing or how you sing it.

just my $.02

[dauntless15]

i was raisd in avery traditional church . with the hymbooks and stuff and the old organ . then my brother got me going to a chrch with a live band and a contemp atmisphear . ( pardon my spelling ) . i was into all the up beat rock music of the time so a church with that saem ( mood ) helped me alot . and then i started lisining to christion rock music and my faith grew and grew . finaly the church i go to now is laying the music thats on the christina radio stations now ! they played a song i just heard in the car on the way over ! . for me i like the contemp idea. this new generation is more rocky of a music gen. will all the ipods and stuff now you can download sermons and lisin on your way to school eo what so ever . i go to church to worship the one and only true God in my life and when i do i dont wan to fall assleep with boring music and an organ and a preacher thats 80 years old. this gen wants the rock . ( to stay awake lol . ) . but it helpts a teenager like me to understand more about what God has to offer and sining his praises in rock music is jus the best thing ever . if you are interested go look up third day the band . or david crowder . they have some very insparationl music. and sermons are beter with music and big screen tvs be cuz its just an easyer way to follow what the paster is saying ...
i have always seid . if the preachers preacheing , and your sleeping , he`s not reaching .
think about that

ps . also some of you may not know this but sunday is no longer a ( sabbath , or holy day ) its just another day of the week . jesus told us this in the new testomint . i found this out by going to www.carm.org and tyrping in the search bar , whay is it wrong to work on sunday . and i found out !!! its not !!! its compleaty ok for anyone to go out to eat or play paintball on sunday !!! God bless

chris

[bornl33t]

It's also not supposed to be a show or money making scheme. Unfortunately, that's what modern American Evangelicalism is.


You're generalizing...

....WE are talking about churches that you actually go to, not TV you watch from the couch.


Undoubtedly people will use anything to make money. And in the same was people will find a small exception and make it the rule.

[FooTemps]

I was raised Catholic, became agnostic, and had a friend that dragged me to her Bapatist church in GA before I moved.


Catholic churches, in my experience, are always like how you say, quiet, calm etc...

The Bapatist chruch I went to was also like what you say, modern with lights and stage and band and xbox's and ps2's and flatscreens and.... food court, basketball court. It was all to much, I felt like church shouldn't be a game, if you're gonna go, go to honor god or don't go at all.

I still don't go to church, but if I decided to go back, It would be the catholic church.


Just my 2 cents.

I also second this. Catholic church & schooling was incredibly disciplined. I can see the thought behind contemporary services, but it may not fit with some people's idea of worship.

I also read that some churches offer halo 3 LAN parties to attract a younger audience. I think that's kinda a cheap trick, but again I can understand the reasoning behind it. Organizations needs followers to stay alive after all.

[kylyo123456]

Not all are going that way, and the ones that do are not necesarily right or wrong. Any church you attend, small or large, just make sure they focus on Christ. Jesus didn't come to earth so we can be entertained (I am not saying chirch should be boring), get rich, etc. He came to save our souls and every Sunday (or day you go to church) should be reminding you of that and encouraging you to live your life completely for His glory.

In a college I was at a big church that preaches the Bible and at home I go to a small chruch that preaches the Bible. The issue I found at a large church is it is easy to get lost in the crowd. It is hard to get involved unless you make the first step (not always, but most of the time).

Just make sure they love Jesus!

[MoeMag]

Just make sure they love Jesus!

This brings up something I would like to touch on. Like I had said earlier I grew up in the Episcopal Church, it’s was a very traditional service. (My uncle’s family has been going to a catholic church, because there isn’t an Episcopal church where they live and it’s very much the same when we visit). Anyway that statement “just make sure they love Jesus” sometimes strikes a nerve with me depending on how it’s being used. What I’m referring to are people which I find best to describe as “Jesus freaks”. A perfect example would be my ex girlfriend and her family. I had dated this girl on and off for almost 8 years. She has been there for me more times than I can think of and there is still no one I would trust more. Well things were getting very serious. It was time that it became more. So I was sitting down with her folks and we got to talking… and the matter of religion was brought up. Long story short I was deeply insulted by her mother. She asked me if I lovr Jesus… my answer was the father the son and the holy sprit. That’s what I grew up on. Jesus is no more important than God nor the holy sprit within us, which leads us to faith in them. They are all one and the same thus why its called the holy trinity. I went to “Trinity cathedral” here in phoenix, and we were always taught they are all important. In fact the “Great Window” stain glass window over the front of the church is a giant star of David to remind us of our roots… not to mention that’s my middle name.
http://www.trinitycathedral.com/WindowGreat.jpg

Anyway, she told me that I wasn’t Christian because Jesus wasn’t my first and only true love. She basically kicked me out of the house. Needless to say, blood is thicker than love in her family. That was 2 months shy of being a year ago and so ended the longest friendship I had ever had with anyone and I guess thankfully I never got past asking her parents. I haven’t seen her since

My church always had a Passover Seder dinner, we have a menorah, we celebrate easter, and Christmas, and its all important to me.

Well apparently because of that I’m not a Christian. Go figure and that will always bug me.

[warpig13]

"If youz a scared mutha :cuss: go to church!"


-Ice Cube

[maxama10]

This brings up something I would like to touch on. Like I had said earlier I grew up in the Episcopal Church, it’s was a very traditional service. (My uncle’s family has been going to a catholic church, because there isn’t an Episcopal church where they live and it’s very much the same when we visit). Anyway that statement “just make sure they love Jesus” sometimes strikes a nerve with me depending on how it’s being used. What I’m referring to are people which I find best to describe as “Jesus freaks”. A perfect example would be my ex girlfriend and her family. I had dated this girl on and off for almost 8 years. She has been there for me more times than I can think of and there is still no one I would trust more. Well things were getting very serious. It was time that it became more. So I was sitting down with her folks and we got to talking… and the matter of religion was brought up. Long story short I was deeply insulted by her mother. She asked me if I lovr Jesus… my answer was the father the son and the holy sprit. That’s what I grew up on. Jesus is no more important than God nor the holy sprit within us, which leads us to faith in them. They are all one and the same thus why its called the holy trinity. I went to “Trinity cathedral” here in phoenix, and we were always taught they are all important. In fact the “Great Window” stain glass window over the front of the church is a giant star of David to remind us of our roots… not to mention that’s my middle name.
http://www.trinitycathedral.com/WindowGreat.jpg

Anyway, she told me that I wasn’t Christian because Jesus wasn’t my first and only true love. She basically kicked me out of the house. Needless to say, blood is thicker than love in her family. That was 2 months shy of being a year ago and so ended the longest friendship I had ever had with anyone and I guess thankfully I never got past asking her parents. I haven’t seen her since

My church always had a Passover Seder dinner, we have a menorah, we celebrate easter, and Christmas, and its all important to me.

Well apparently because of that I’m not a Christian. Go figure and that will always bug me.
QFT
Amen!

[punkncat]

What I’m referring to are people which I find best to describe as “Jesus freaks”...... So I was sitting down with her folks and we got to talking… and the matter of religion was brought up. Long story short I was deeply insulted by her mother. She asked me if I lovr Jesus… my answer was the father the son and the holy sprit.....Anyway, she told me that I wasn’t Christian because Jesus wasn’t my first and only true love. She basically kicked me out of the house. Well apparently because of that I’m not a Christian. Go figure and that will always bug me.


Belive me, around these parts you see that a lot. A friend of mine growing up had an entire family like that. Imagine for a moment having every Beatles record in original print. Much of The Who, Pink Floyd, Bread, King Crimson, CCR, numerous others, almost if not entire collections in early original print. Every one of them was broken over the end of a bed frame for being "the Devil's music". Even at that time, 25+ years ago, that was a priceless collection. If you cussed around any of them there were bibles out and a prayer meeting going around you...it was insane. Because he (my friend) wouldn't embrace that type of religion he was dubbed a Black Sheep and the entire family turned their back on him.

[warpig13]

Belive me, around these parts you see that a lot. A friend of mine growing up had an entire family like that. Imagine for a moment having every Beatles record in original print. Much of The Who, Pink Floyd, Bread, King Crimson, CCR, numerous others, almost if not entire collections in early original print. Every one of them was broken over the end of a bed frame for being "the Devil's music". Even at that time, 25+ years ago, that was a priceless collection. If you cussed around any of them there were bibles out and a prayer meeting going around you...it was insane. Because he (my friend) wouldn't embrace that type of religion he was dubbed a Black Sheep and the entire family turned their back on him.

My family with the exception has done the same to me.

Im 16, live with a friend and work my way through high school so I can go to college.
But it's a small price to pay to believe in what you want, no matter what it is. I may not go to church or agree with the said religion, but I think it is a good thing to go to chruch and respect every decision to do so.

[Altimas]

This brings up something I would like to touch on. Like I had said earlier I grew up in the Episcopal Church, it’s was a very traditional service. (My uncle’s family has been going to a catholic church, because there isn’t an Episcopal church where they live and it’s very much the same when we visit). Anyway that statement “just make sure they love Jesus” sometimes strikes a nerve with me depending on how it’s being used. What I’m referring to are people which I find best to describe as “Jesus freaks”. A perfect example would be my ex girlfriend and her family. I had dated this girl on and off for almost 8 years. She has been there for me more times than I can think of and there is still no one I would trust more. Well things were getting very serious. It was time that it became more. So I was sitting down with her folks and we got to talking… and the matter of religion was brought up. Long story short I was deeply insulted by her mother. She asked me if I lovr Jesus… my answer was the father the son and the holy sprit. That’s what I grew up on. Jesus is no more important than God nor the holy sprit within us, which leads us to faith in them. They are all one and the same thus why its called the holy trinity. I went to “Trinity cathedral” here in phoenix, and we were always taught they are all important. In fact the “Great Window” stain glass window over the front of the church is a giant star of David to remind us of our roots… not to mention that’s my middle name.
http://www.trinitycathedral.com/WindowGreat.jpg

Anyway, she told me that I wasn’t Christian because Jesus wasn’t my first and only true love. She basically kicked me out of the house. Needless to say, blood is thicker than love in her family. That was 2 months shy of being a year ago and so ended the longest friendship I had ever had with anyone and I guess thankfully I never got past asking her parents. I haven’t seen her since

My church always had a Passover Seder dinner, we have a menorah, we celebrate easter, and Christmas, and its all important to me.

Well apparently because of that I’m not a Christian. Go figure and that will always bug me.

Very interesting Post Moe Mag. I agree with you. I think what a lot of people get wrapped up in is that, " I am the way, the truth, and the life. Noone can come to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) Jesus is the starting point to a relationship with God. I think you have to believe he died for our sins and rose again to have salvation, but that just leads to the next step in discovering and establishing a relationship with the father, the son, and the holy spirit. In laymans terms the Buck doesn't stop there.

[bornl33t]

Doesn't the word trinity imply all three are the same being?

[Altimas]

Doesn't the word trinity imply all three are the same being?

Yes but think of it like an Egg... And Egg is one thing but it is made up of three parts, the yolk, the egg white, and the shell.

[MoeMag]

Doesn't the word trinity imply all three are the same being?

Yes.

The Father the Son and the Holy Sprit are distinct and eternal beings, which are all of one devine being

EDIT:
Ah... /\ you beat me to it... I like that egg

[beam]

punkncat -

What role are you looking for the Church to play in your life?

Just wondering.

There are many things that you can be concerned about with a church: doctrine, style, ministry philosophy, etc. And these are all important, but one thing that will make your involvement with a church short-lived and/or miserable is church health. There are way too many dying churches in America today.

Is the church full of people who compartmentalilze God to church on Sunday?
or
Is the church full of people who greatly desire to increase in their love for God and their love for others?

This isn't being judgemental. It's just looking at what is driving a church.

As for the modern styles...why should it be bad to use modern technology during a worship service. Or modern pop-culture icons to illustrate a point?

[acropilot19]

If you looking for something akin to your grandpa's church, more power to ya. One of the few things about having a church on every corner is that you'll most likely find what you're looking for.

And that seems to be the real problem. Dont agree with what the Priest says, go find another church. want a divorce, make a new church of your own. Have it your way, 'cause God aint the authority, you are...
:tard:
...and if the Priest is preachin', and you be sleepin', you're sleepin while God is talkin'. If you need the rock music & big screen TV, you're really not there for God, are you?
Think about it.
:rolleyes:

[Caboose]

As far as churches go:
There are churches for everyone, and everyone wants something different. Some want the more traditional churches. I attended one (that doubled as my middle and high school) and I disliked it. The services were bland and boring. More sleeping was involved than actual learning. They didn't make it enjoyable. They didn't draw you in. Some are cool with that, it just wasn't my thing. I started going to a large (2,000+ people attending per service) that had a very contemporary worship service and a very intelligent preacher who had the incredible ability to teach something completely over our collective head, but draw us into it and make us understand it. I loved it. Some can't stand contemporary worship, but it draws me very close to God. It really gets me in a receptive state that prepares me for the sermon. I absolutely love it. Neither is "wrong" in its worship or preaching choices. They just appeal to different tastes. Apples to oranges, pumps to electros, etc.

And on the Jesus issue:
I believe that the only way to heaven is, indeed, through the sacrifice of Jesus. I don't know how anyone could take God the Father (The great I Am, Jehovah, Jah, whichever moniker you please) and the Holy Spirit (Ghost, either one) out of the equation.


And I know someone is going to come in and say something to the effect of:
"How can God be three separate deities but also the same?"
I chalk that up in the "Things man cannot ever hope to comprehend but is incredibly simple to God because God is... well, God" pile.
The same goes for Jesus being 100% man and 100% God.

[mobsterboy]

Yes but think of it like an Egg... And Egg is one thing but it is made up of three parts, the yolk, the egg white, and the shell.

but an egg has three separate distinct parts. The trinity are one and the same.

[mstrdbz]

And that seems to be the real problem. Dont agree with what the Priest says, go find another church. want a divorce, make a new church of your own. Have it your way, 'cause God aint the authority, you are...
:tard:

Is it? Or is the problem that so many denominations get so bogged down in tradition that they forget where they came from? I've been in church almost all my life, and if their's any one thing that stuck out the most to me, it's this: The way we used to do it isn't getting done anymore. Most people (especially non-believers) are less interested in what God did 2,000 years ago and more interested in what He's doing now. Show them what He's done in your life, and then they will be receptive to what He did 2,000 years ago.

Caboose: Well said!

[acropilot19]

Is it? Or is the problem that so many denominations get so bogged down in tradition that they forget where they came from? I've been in church almost all my life, and if their's any one thing that stuck out the most to me, it's this: The way we used to do it isn't getting done anymore. Most people (especially non-believers) are less interested in what God did 2,000 years ago and more interested in what He's doing now. Show them what He's done in your life, and then they will be receptive to what He did 2,000 years ago.


Its the tradition that keeps it real. Theres a reason its been done the same way for 2000 years, because its the truth. Tradition does not survive for 2000 years unless there is something REAL going on.

The reality is, more & more people today want the dog & pony show. The want their cake & they wanna eat it to. They want God to come to them. "Show ME". "MAKE me believe". :confused:
Man, YOU gotta go out and FIND God. Life is about PASSION. The Church is there to guide you- Not serve God to you on a platter. It dont work that way!
-You find God (and passion) in the struggle to stay married.
-You find God (and passion) when you nurse a dying parent (or friend)in their last days.
-You find God (and passion) when you give your time and love to the old and sick.
-You find God (and passion) when you give all you have to raise a child....
People dont get the fact that they have to EARN it.

-There's a reason for everything the church espouses. You've gotta understand that in the 2000 years the church has been around (If you havent guessed, I'm Catholic) many, many very intelligent people have studied and researched and argued & faught over just how the Bible should be interpreted. That is why the Catholic church is what it is, and does what it does. Those "Rules" have stood the test of time.
:)
Every other "church" thats come along since then was started by somebody that wanted it their own way, and/or thought they were smarter than all those that went before them.
:tard:
Thats why you have guys living out in Utah with 20 wives. They wanted a harem, the church said "uh-uh", so they started their own religion. Thats why there's 20 billion different protestant churches, cause each pastor has his own idea of what the Bible "should" mean.
:rofl:
Its really kinda funny, actually.

[spwz99]

Thats why there's 20 billion different protestant churches, cause each pastor has his own idea of what the Bible "should" mean.


While I think this idea can be taken too far, I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing.
I think one of the greatest things about Christianity is that you are free to have your own opinions (within reason of course) and still call yourself a Christian.

Now, I don't pretend to be so wise as to think that I know more about God and the Bible than the thousands of priests who came before me. That would be ridiculous.

I also don't believe, however, that they have it 100% right in the Catholic church.

On the other hand, I don't think that there is any church that has it 100% right because the church is made of imperfect people. I think every church has something different to offer, something that other denominations might have missed. And the sooner all Christian denominations can realize that, the sooner we can get closer to having Christianity as what God meant it to be.

[maxama10]

Its the tradition that keeps it real. Theres a reason its been done the same way for 2000 years, because its the truth. Tradition does not survive for 2000 years unless there is something REAL going on.

The reality is, more & more people today want the dog & pony show. The want their cake & they wanna eat it to. They want God to come to them. "Show ME". "MAKE me believe". :confused:
Man, YOU gotta go out and FIND God. Life is about PASSION. The Church is there to guide you- Not serve God to you on a platter. It dont work that way!
-You find God (and passion) in the struggle to stay married.
-You find God (and passion) when you nurse a dying parent (or friend)in their last days.
-You find God (and passion) when you give your time and love to the old and sick.
-You find God (and passion) when you give all you have to raise a child....
People dont get the fact that they have to EARN it.

-There's a reason for everything the church espouses. You've gotta understand that in the 2000 years the church has been around (If you havent guessed, I'm Catholic) many, many very intelligent people have studied and researched and argued & faught over just how the Bible should be interpreted. That is why the Catholic church is what it is, and does what it does. Those "Rules" have stood the test of time.
:)
Every other "church" thats come along since then was started by somebody that wanted it their own way, and/or thought they were smarter than all those that went before them.
:tard:
Thats why you have guys living out in Utah with 20 wives. They wanted a harem, the church said "uh-uh", so they started their own religion. Thats why there's 20 billion different protestant churches, cause each pastor has his own idea of what the Bible "should" mean.
:rofl:
Its really kinda funny, actually.


Meh, more or less.

[beam]

Every other "church" thats come along since then was started by somebody that wanted it their own way, and/or thought they were smarter than all those that went before them.


You know, I'm really glad Martin Luther had the nads to challenge the way the Roman Catholic church was operating.

And I'm not Lutheran. And I don't even agree with everything Martin Luther believed.

Here's the way these things need to be looked at. Jesus came to earth and brought a New Covenant for the people of earth and God. This means, that the old way of coming to God, via His nation of Israel, was no longer valid. The new covenant is that you can come to God via the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Jesus called this new covenant "New Wine" And he said you don't put new wine in an old wineskin...it will burst.

The things that churches do that aren't sacraments...like worship style, specific ministries, church decor, etc. is all wineskin. It needs to be updated and culturally relevant. The wine, that is the Gospel, never changes.

Some people won't step one foot into a traditional church with pews and steeples and stained glass windows. So, churches change those non essential things so that a person will come. Realize, the person isn't rejecting Christ, he/she is rejecting out-dated seating, irrelevant out-dated art, and irrelevant out-dated architecture. Those people who enter a modern contemporary church building and begin a relationship with Christ have just as real of a relationship with Him as someone who found it easy to go to an irrelevant/out-dated church and endure it.

[teufelhunden]

I also don't believe, however, that they have it 100% right in the Catholic church.


As a confirmed Roman Catholic, I can attest that they have it about 4% right. If that. On a good day.