LP question

[BangStik]

If the input pressure for the mag is 375 how come you can't run a LP (450) tank with a high recharge rate like a crossfire? Has anyone tried this?

[mobsterboy]

you'll starve the mag. While yes it can prob run that low, it cant run fast on that low. You could just not regulate the 3000 psi at all and the mag would do just fine. Its got its own reg that basically double regulates the air.

[ThePixelGuru]

Higher pressure means higher flow. You could theoretically run the 'mag on that little air, but you might have to wait a few minutes for your velocity to hit useable levels. Much better just to slam a thousand psi or so into it and let the 'mag sort it out.

EDIT: Oh, and LP is a myth anyway. Pretty much every marker puts the same amount of pressure behind the ball. Even if you did put less pressure behind the ball, what makes that better? Hype is bad, kids! :nono:

[BangStik]

I was just hoping I could share a tank between a mag and a borg. I thought that maybe I could run the LP tank with the mag also.

[electriceel125]

I was just hoping I could share a tank between a mag and a borg. I thought that maybe I could run the LP tank with the mag also.

Run an HP tank on both.

[warbeak2099]

Run an HP tank on both.

Win

[turbo chicken]

ok i'm going to play devil's advocate....

Question then ... could a person recalibrate the regulator to recharge just as fast using lower input pressure?

aren't there regs out there that can take down800-1000 psi to 2-300 psi and still hve a decent recharge raate.


... how do other markers perform at lower tank pressures ... do they have shoot down too?


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i thought about it some more ... probably no matter what the reg ... that higher pressure on any reg = fater recharge rate...

[Chaos_Theory!]

ok i'm going to play devil's advocate....

Question then ... could a person recalibrate the regulator to recharge just as fast using lower input pressure?

aren't there regs out there that can take down800-1000 psi to 2-300 psi and still hve a decent recharge raate.


... how do other markers perform at lower tank pressures ... do they have shoot down too?


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i thought about it some more ... probably no matter what the reg ... that higher pressure on any reg = fater recharge rate...

You cant just recalibrate a normal tank reg unless its an adjuatble one.

Most regs do take down the 800 or so psi that the average HP puts out to arounfd 200psi or so and recharge is fine. Thats actually the norm, which is why i dont understand why you brought up.

Other guns operate better with LP tanks because they operate at much lower pressures than mags. Even so LP tanks are a joke since HP tanks can be used on nearly every gun out.

All that being said, go with a HP tank and dont bother with LP.

[Shane-O-Mac]

The only reason for a LP tank, is when you have a secondary reg on a marker that is incapable of handling HP input. It started with with Angels when the 04 Angels came out IIRC. If your markers secondary reg cant handle 800 psi input, change it out. It comes down to port velocity. The higher the pressure the quicker the air can move, within a limit of course. So your LP tank has to have larger passages to fill the reg, to equal the HP output with smaller passages of air. And the physical limitations of the reg prohibit compensating the LP output. A HP tank will ALWAYS be better as long as your secondary reg can handle it.

Shane-O

[turbo chicken]

You cant just recalibrate a normal tank reg unless its an adjuatble one.

Most regs do take down the 800 or so psi that the average HP puts out to arounfd 200psi or so and recharge is fine. Thats actually the norm, which is why i dont understand why you brought up.

Other guns operate better with LP tanks because they operate at much lower pressures than mags. Even so LP tanks are a joke since HP tanks can be used on nearly every gun out.

All that being said, go with a HP tank and dont bother with LP.


Yes it's the norm ... and now that i read it ... i miss stated my pressures ... what i meant was


regs that run off of tanks with 400-500 psi and still recharge at a decent rate ... why not build the mag valve to do the same ...


if other regs on other guns can do it why not do it with the mag valve mag?

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answer is probably that recharge time is optimal at higher psi for that design ... but again ... just throwing it out there for discussion...

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and yes LP is hype!!! wait i just thought of something ... if you have a ep gun with a reg .. but your using a LP tank reg ... is the reg on the gun even doing anything?? it's more or less acting like a gas thru ... right?

[B-Pow]

and yes LP is hype!!! wait i just thought of something ... if you have a ep gun with a reg .. but your using a LP tank reg ... is the reg on the gun even doing anything?? it's more or less acting like a gas thru ... right?

Not really, the on gun reg still does something. Take the average "new" gun, they operate at 150-225 psi-ish (estimations gimmie a break) and the average lp tank outputs 450-550 psi. So the on gun regulator lowers the 450-550 down to 150-225 range. The on gun reg is still cutting down the psi by about 300 psi give or take. However most guns do not require a lp tank...(only one that comes to mind are lp angels).

The only other benifit of an lp tank is that if your gun reg (or lpr) fails there is a small chance that the solinoid will not be distoyed since the ammount of pressure hitting it will be significantly lower. However solinoids are not that durable and the odds of survival are still low...but no zero.

[Shane-O-Mac]

regs that run off of tanks with 400-500 psi and still recharge at a decent rate ... why not build the mag valve to do the same ...


if other regs on other guns can do it why not do it with the mag valve mag?

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answer is probably that recharge time is optimal at higher psi for that design ... but again ... just throwing it out there for discussion...

-------------------

and yes LP is hype!!! wait i just thought of something ... if you have a ep gun with a reg .. but your using a LP tank reg ... is the reg on the gun even doing anything?? it's more or less acting like a gas thru ... right?

Your answer is correct, higher pressure is required to move the amount of air needed quickly. The pressure of the gun does not mean a thing. I hear to many people thinking the have a LP gun, so they "Need" an LP tank............. :rolleyes:

A Mags regulator will recharge faster than needed, as long as it is feed a steady stream of HP input air. A LP tank is at the fringe of the pressures needed to properly recharge the Air valve. It will work, but not like it should.

As to your last question, no your air valve reg is what makes the velocity change. It operates at around 350-400 psi. But using an LP tank may make changing velocity very hard to do, and make the air valve reg work much harder.

[Russ]

I ran my Emag off a MacDev Conquest with a 500 PSI output for some time, and never noticed or measured any shoot down

[Shane-O-Mac]

I ran my Emag off a MacDev Conquest with a 500 PSI output for some time, and never noticed or measured any shoot down

Was that output of your tank measured by standard micro gauges? If so it could be off by as much as 100-150psi. The large ashcroft gauges that Air America used to put on their stuff was much more accurate, but could still be off by 50psi or so. If your tank was really outputting at 500psi, and your gun had a great paint/barrel match, your mag could have been running around 350 or so, so it is possible for it to work fine, but without a chrony to measure every shot of a string, its hard to know if you were having consistency problems. Our eyes aren't good indicators......lol. Not trying to say it wouldnt work, but it isnt optimum or even recommended, IMO.

[Russ]

...but without a chrony to measure every shot of a string...

But I do have a chronograph, and did measure the velocity. That's how I know that I wasn't experiencing shoot down

[Shane-O-Mac]

But I do have a chronograph, and did measure the velocity. That's how I know that I wasn't experiencing shoot down

Sorry. I wasnt clear enough. What I was reffering to was a chrono that measures FPS as your shooting a string. Another thing I remembered last night, was that if your using a LP tank on something like a mag, you will be running that reg at 90%-95% all the time. In a long string your practicly holding the reg wide open. Where as a HP tank reg will not have to work as hard. Yopu guys are making go back and try and remember all those old conversations I had with one of the engineers from AA when I teched for them.....................

[Beemer]

Sorry. I wasnt clear enough. What I was reffering to was a chrono that measures FPS as your shooting a string.

That would be one that would read FPS on every shot? Do you have a chrono that will read the FPS on every ball at 15bps? If so what kind is it and where can I get one? Thanks. :cheers:

[Shane-O-Mac]

That would be one that would read FPS on every shot? Do you have a chrono that will read the FPS on every ball at 15bps? If so what kind is it and where can I get one? Thanks. :cheers:

Well I dont have one.....lol. AGD did sell there chrony with print out capablilitys, but otherwise they are pretty hard to come by. I wish I had one. My point is that with the measuring means available to us, it is hard to say, that your gun has no drop off/inconsistency. And standard gauges and ratings of tanks are not very accurate. I have seen just as many tank regs putting out 1000psi, that were supposed to be putting out 800psi. And that was using higher quality and accuracy gauges. So my skepticism about a LP tank that truely puts out as advertised, is well founded. Also, I never said it wouldn't work, just that it wouldnt work as well as it should, with the tank reg outputting 450psi. Shooting a string on an Emag with a 450psi input, may seem fine, but all the shots after the first may be lower fps (consistantly at a lower fps) than the first couple, thus giving the illusion of consistency/no drop off.

Bah, if a LP tank works for you, great. But dont buy one for a Mag............................ :D

[Russ]

Sorry. I wasnt clear enough. What I was reffering to was a chrono that measures FPS as your shooting a string.

My chronograph DOES measure strings, as fast as I canshoot, and records the velocities.

What I'm telling you is that my Emag didn't show any drop off with a MacDev Conquest set @ 500 PSI output pressure.

Can you wrap your mind around that? :)

[Shane-O-Mac]

My chronograph DOES measure strings, as fast as I canshoot, and records the velocities.

What I'm telling you is that my Emag didn't show any drop off with a MacDev Conquest set @ 500 PSI output pressure.

Can you wrap your mind around that? :)

Why yes I can............................

Sorry for my skepticisim, I am used to people making claims without real data/facts to back it up, thats why I ASKED if you had checked it out that way, not to accuse you of making it up. I was just trying to find out if you had really checked it out properly. And as I said in my post after yours, it is highly possible that it worked just fine, no need to get smarmy (did I just use that word?...lol). But its all good, my opinion is that it isnt recommended to use an LP tank on a Mag. Your Conquest is a better reg than a screw-in also, so I would take that into account. Alnd I had asked you about the gauges, as that could make your tank look like it's putting out 500 when it is actually putting out 550, or even lower than 500, seen that happen with many tanks. They were tested with much higher quality gauges. Heres why I say that, the old AA Ashcroft gauges were about as good as you can get for a reasonabe price, and they are actually "Indicators" only meant to give an indication as to the pressure output/input (not as accurate as you might think). the mini/micro gauges were horrendous in accuracy, so thats why i asked about that.

Bottomline, I wasnt trying to be an jackass, just trying to point out how there could have been other variables that you may not have taken into account. I apologize if I offended you....................... :)

Shane-O

[Beemer]

My chronograph DOES measure strings, as fast as I canshoot, and records the velocities.

How fast can you shoot? If its 10 balls in one second your crony will give you fps on EVERY ball in that second? What crony is it and where can I get it? Thanks. :cheers:

Oh ya Mobster got it right with this in the second post.

"While yes it can prob run that low, it cant run fast on that low"