G-force pneumatic grip?

[JLag-2/69]

I wanted to ask If anyone has had any experience with these in the past, or own one and can describe how sweet it is, or is it poor quality and just a rip off, $199 for the grip frame already built minus the LPR reg. Honestly after buying all the tools and supplies to make one, it honestly makes buying one instead a lot more appealing. Any help or input would be great. Thanks guys :)

[Looper]

Well... I have paid for one with internal reg and patiently waiting for the first of the year to see the frame in the mail. I don't know of any AO'ers that have gotten there hands on them yet. all we have are photos and vids from Garf.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=219595&page=1&pp=30

I'm sure you started reading the above thread but it will take you a full day in front of the PC to read it all.

We have been told in the above thread that if you can still buy them on the web site then the pre order is not closed. But I would send an PM or post the question again to Garf to verify this.

[jade_monkey07]

i dont believe anyone has recieved theirs yet, the ship date is supposed to be late december for most of them. im waiting on 2 of them no internal lpr.

[JLag-2/69]

Hmmmmm....well I said screw it and bought one anyway...if it performs anything like the video shows then there is no doubt ill be happy! Thanks for the thread hook up by the way Looper! :D
I guess there must be some success with these frames becuase my order was in the mid 400's. Shppment will be in mid Jan. for me. Another month and change Ill let everyone know how it works, but somehow I think a few of you will be gloating about how sweet they are soon! :headbang:

Hey another thing, do any of you run the sleeprer version, and if so are any of you using anything besides the CP asa and the custom spacer G-Force offers? Thanks again!

[Looper]

Hey another thing, do any of you run the sleeprer version, and if so are any of you using anything besides the CP asa and the custom spacer G-Force offers? Thanks again!

Bob Long ASA (http://www.automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2442275&postcount=549)

I posted the above message in the "Monster G-Force Thread" above on Page 19. This is what I plan to use for my sleeper setup. As soon as I get my frame I will be drilling in from the top of the ASA thread side then down from the top. I'll keep everyone posted on how it works.

:D

[JLag-2/69]

Are you saying you can measure, drill and mount this bad boy and no extra spacer needed for it to work? If so, I found my new asa, screw custom spacers! :dance:

[Smoothice]

Are you saying you can measure, drill and mount this bad boy and no extra spacer needed for it to work? If so, I found my new asa, screw custom spacers! :dance:

Because the top of that asa is competely flat it should not need the custom spacer.

I will be running a sleeper version as well but going about it in a completely different way :ninja:

[Looper]

I will be running a sleeper version as well but going about it in a completely different way

Please, do tell.

New ideas build more ideas; of course that usually leads to spending more money... :tard:

[JLag-2/69]

I am interested as well to hear what you have planned for your sleeper smootheice!




New ideas build more ideas; of course that usually leads to spending more money...

Aint that the truth! I put so much money into my mag it ought to be able to make me a sandwhich on top of shooting paintballs! :D

[lasrsktr]

Smooth's plan is to use a Palmers stab or fatty to run as a LPR. with a hidden line in the rail that goes into the pneumatic frame.

Excuse the pictures but this is mine and its not a gforce frame..

This is the LP sprung Palmers stab
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u110/lasrsktr/IMG_6370.jpg

Also i have an Emaggo using a Palmers Fatty as the LPR
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u110/lasrsktr/IMG_6345.jpg

Its fun because it really takes no really modifications except to drill and tap a barb into the Vertical ASA.

[JLag-2/69]

Wow, great looking Mags! :headbang: Good idea too, I never thought of running a line through the rail instead of through the grip.

[lasrsktr]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u110/lasrsktr/IMG_0641.jpg

My pneumag used to look like this with a front mounted LPR and the line through the rail... I just never liked the front mounted LPR as a personal taste so i was looking for another stealthy option, and cutting up a frame for an internal LPR wasn't in my plan so With some help hints i was pointed towards this as an option.

[Smoothice]

Geez now my secret is out. Thanks lasrsktr!!!

Now everybody will be doing it :tard:

Just Kidding :clap:

But yeah that is how my setup will be run. I already had a air bleed asa and I'm not a huge fan in the direct mount asa's. I like a little drop forward action. I didn't want to pay to get an internal lpr and a new asa and most likely a custom spacer. So the cost of a palmers stab made sense.

Of course then I decided I needed a 15* asa to tie everything together. Which then lead me to obtaining a new rail so that everything would match how I wanted it too. So in the end I have spent much more then I was planning.

[JLag-2/69]

Hey one more quick question! I have the complete ULT set up on my gun, so I think that includes the on/off as well. Is that going to be a problem running the G-Force set up?I heard some people saying the regular R/T was the way to roll. If it is going to be a problem can someone explain to me why!?!?!

[Smoothice]

Hey one more quick question! I have the complete ULT set up on my gun, so I think that includes the on/off as well. Is that going to be a problem running the G-Force set up?I heard some people saying the regular R/T was the way to roll. If it is going to be a problem can someone explain to me why!?!?!

As far as I know it shoudn't be a problem.

The only comments I have seen is that it isn't necessary to use a ult. But it should work fine.

Worse case is you sell the ult for $45 and buy a rt on/off for $20.

[TwilightG]

As far as I know it shoudn't be a problem.

The only comments I have seen is that it isn't necessary to use a ult. But it should work fine.

Worse case is you sell the ult for $45 and buy a rt on/off for $20.

I think Garf (G-Force Tech) mentioned that you waste more air using the ULT, but I don't quite understand how.

I'm pretty much in the same situation... my X-Valve only came w/ the ULT and don't have a spare RT on/off. I was planning on just keeping the ULT in there anyway unless I notice a significant drop in air efficiency. Of course, the pneumatics will use more air to begin with so it'll be difficult to judge how much efficiency I'd be losing.

[JLag-2/69]

I think ill stick with the ULT then unless someone can give me a serious performance reason why to ditch it. I dont mind using a little more air, if that is the case. Hey, we didnt by Automags for their reputation of being air efficient, we bought them for performance and solid design. Besides, I just bought a Nitro duck ireg 70/45 stubby so i think ill be good on air :D

Thanks for the help guys! :cheers:

[lasrsktr]

Well in my pneumag i use a emag length on/off with a Quad oring instead of a ULT because i found myself short stroking the valve to much when i had a ULT installed in the valve.


Its a matter of preference but i enjoy the Emag .712 pin in the on/off over a ULT.

[TwilightG]

Well in my pneumag i use a emag length on/off with a Quad oring instead of a ULT because i found myself short stroking the valve to much when i had a ULT installed in the valve.


Its a matter of preference but i enjoy the Emag .712 pin in the on/off over a ULT.

Excuse my ignorance, but I thought that you couldn't short-stroke a pneu-setup since the sear wasn't directly "connected" to the trigger-pull.

So is it the 3-way valve that is susceptible to short-stroking? causing the piston to not fully actuate the sear?

Does the reactive-ness of the on/off have any impact on the pneumatics? I know that it should not have any affect on the trigger pull.

Please enlighten me :D

[Spider-TW]

Excuse my ignorance, but I thought that you couldn't short-stroke a pneu-setup since the sear wasn't directly "connected" to the trigger-pull.

So is it the 3-way valve that is susceptible to short-stroking? causing the piston to not fully actuate the sear?

Does the reactive-ness of the on/off have any impact on the pneumatics? I know that it should not have any affect on the trigger pull.

Please enlighten me :D
Reactivity would help return the MPA-3, but you would have to have an electro-pneu to make a difference. Classics work fine as pneus and have no noticeable reactivity, so reactivity has little impact at human rates.

Once the sear releases the bolt, it's gone, no matter how you creep up on it. It's the valve recharge that gets messed up.

The trigger travel is short on a pneu, so it is harder to short stroke because there is so little opportunity to do it. However, if you drop one finger right as you are letting the other finger off the trigger, you can catch the bolt on the return, before the valve recharges. Without an electronic or pneumatic delay, the only way to avoid it is to train your fingers. ;) I'm talking about short stroking while walking the trigger. You have to really work at it with one finger.

[TwilightG]

Thanks for the lesson :cheers:

That makes more sense now..
So how does the on/off valve-type make a difference as Lasrsktr pointed out?

Based on this explanation, it shouldn't.. unless I missed something.

[Spider-TW]

As he said, there is some preference involved. Depending on the mechanical layout of your MSV-2, it will have more or less return force on the trigger (how long is the lever, where did you put the trigger rod, how much pressure are you running in the LPR). With a ULT having very light force in the first place, the trigger return can be too light. The trigger can be slow to return if you tune the LPR for just enough force to push the sear. Your are correct in that for the same LPR pressure, a pneumag trigger should feel the same for either on/off. A ULT becomes an additional adjustment in your pneu train and the best operating pressure for the pneus can be harder to find any time it needs adjustment.

If you look at the span of on/off pin lengths, you can see there is a range of about 0.050 inches between them. Most stock pins are 0.750. By design, you have to allow play for variations in manufacturing, (re-)assembly, and wear. By shortening the pin or pushing the on/off top seal up with washers on a ULT, you delay the point that the on/off seals off relative to the sear catching/releasing the bolt. Normally you have an overlap that latches up the bolt on return before opening the on/off. If you adjust it very close, the bolt will start to push back out before the sear is fully engaged. This makes the trigger break very crisp, but it doesn't wear well and is not consistent as the bumper, springs and other parts wear (or if you don't tighten the frame screws as tight as before).

I think the difference in the 'quad' orings for the emags is that they sit lower on the on/off top, compared to the actual sealing surface of a round oring, requiring a shorter pin to get the same operation. You can run a 0.712 pin with a regular oring in some markers; it just barely catches the bolt, if at all.

If you look at the on/off pin, there's about 0.100 inches of sealing surface available. You only need enough to match the inner surface of the on/off oring, if you hit it right. ;)

[Spider-TW]

If you look at where lasrsktr's trigger rod hits the trigger, it's right at the top. That gives it a lot of leverage. It makes the trigger pull more consistent between the upper and lower fingers, but it needs SOME pressure to push it back out. Pneus can be silly light.

Probably a ball bearing trigger too, eh lasrsktr?

[TwilightG]

:headbang:

Awesome explanation! Thanks a lot

I think I'll just wait and see how the ULT performs w/ the G-Force frame out-of-the-box. If I run into any tuning issues, I might just try to make a quick trade for an RT on/off.

[Spider-TW]

I haven't made it through that whole thread yet :wow:

Whatever they recommend would be best to start with, since you're paying for their design as well as their manufacturing.

:cheers:

[TwilightG]

I haven't made it through that whole thread yet :wow:

Whatever they recommend would be best to start with, since you're paying for their design as well as their manufacturing.

:cheers:

That thread is very tough to read too.. there's a lot of good info but a lot of redundant questions too.

There really should have been a new thread made once the frame production was officially announced.

[Andrew Cunje]

i like the bob long asa....but what other asas' are u all looking to use with ur frame?


bob long is probably my number one choice before the non-on-off cp one