automag rt

[hillg]

been using mags for long time but just got an older rt. It has the lvl 7 on it and there is nothing aftermarket on this gun all stock. I want to know what should i do to make this gun better. Im already talking to someone about an Intelliframe w/Blade and Sticky Grips and i figure i would go and get the lvl 10 upgrade. If there is anything else that you guys can think of that will make a big difference please let me know.

[Bagheera]

been using mags for long time but just got an older rt. It has the lvl 7 on it and there is nothing aftermarket on this gun all stock. I want to know what should i do to make this gun better. Im already talking to someone about an Intelliframe w/Blade and Sticky Grips and i figure i would go and get the lvl 10 upgrade. If there is anything else that you guys can think of that will make a big difference please let me know.

I'm in exactly the same boat, upgrading my original level 7 (I think) to perform well today. I received tons of great advice in this thread;

http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223505&page=1&pp=30

[Pacifist_Farmer]

The old RT's don't need much to be good markers. On the other hand there isn't really much that can be done due to the banjo bolt and body style.

Put a barrel you like and a good air source on it and your good to go.

[WingMan13]

If your looking to put some money into it you could add a ULE body.
http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=367&categoryID=9

[hillg]

what so good about the ule body

[senghing27]

ule will not fit on the older rt body style.

The rails are different lengths...

And whats good about the ULE body?

Two things,

Vert Feed + Lighter.

I have a stock RT Pro. and I added a ULE body

Before:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g149/27senghing/Mags010.jpg

After:
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g149/27senghing/Droid010.jpg

So, What should you get for your marker? Better barrel and a High Output tank. That should have that marker purring like a kitten.
Intelli is preference, and the lvl 10 I find it to be too much of a hassel. Then again, When I'm using my RT Pro, I kinda just let it go trigger bounce crazy on people.

[p8ntbal4me]

If you like your R/T the way it is but you want to upgrade the valve,.. cut the back of the body.

I know,.. I know,.. not something that sounds really cool to do.

Trust me,.... its worth it if you love an older R/T body but want the newer valves to fit.

Ive done 2 R/Ts like this and have zero problems with them as far as the bodies go.

Worth looking into.

~ P8nt

[hillg]

so the ule out there will not fit the old r/t's. If thats what i want to do then i need to get the r/t upgrade that AGD offers.

[snoopay700]

The old RT's don't need much to be good markers. On the other hand there isn't really much that can be done due to the banjo bolt and body style.

Put a barrel you like and a good air source on it and your good to go.
Well you can do pretty much anything you can with a normal marker, only you can also put the air source on either side, which i think is a nice little feature, though i've never used it to put it on a different side. I never really got why people don't like the banjo bolt, i like it a lot.

EDIT: If you're thinking about the upgrade just for a ULE body, i wouldn't consider it worth it, but then again, i'm the kind of guy that likes a hefty gun.

[hillg]

with the ule you can use cocker barrels and u can find them anywhere where finding a mag barrel can be difficult sometimes.

[snoopay700]

with the ule you can use cocker barrels and u can find them anywhere where finding a mag barrel can be difficult sometimes.
Also not a problem for me, i also don't get the fascination with cocker barrels, a barrel with a single id down the length of it is the same as the next one, and that's what i have right now, i don't have a desire to change, it's accurate.

[hillg]

here is my gun btw

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r90/kkemp2/rt2.jpg
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r90/kkemp2/rt1.jpg

now how can you tell the dif with an rt and a pro?

[dixieoutfitter94]

:cuss: I was trying to by that!

I would say, buy my benchmark frame I want to sell ;)

[hillg]

i have an intelliframe that is on its way and then im going to get the lvl 10 but maybe thinking about going xvavle

[hillg]

sorry about that. you still want it? j/k

[dixieoutfitter94]

deffinately a drop.....

its simple and not what you were looking for but still.... buy a drop and an on/off.

[snoopay700]

The difference is the banjo bolt, and the fact that the valve fits completely into the body, rather than halfway like a normal mag or an rt pro. Basically an RT Pro is a classic mag with a rail based off of the RT and it has an RT valve made to fit onto a normal mag. Oh, and the front of the body is cut differently from a normal mag, but basically they're the same gun internally.

EDIT: Agh, sorry to tell you man, but you HAVE an x-valve. An x-valve won't fit in your gun, and it's basically an aluminum RT valve that fits into a classic type mag body.

[dixieoutfitter94]

You can put an xvalve in it if you cut the body right?

[snoopay700]

it will if you vut the body right?
Even if you could get it to FIT in there, it wouldn't work, because you would need to put it on it's side so it could get air into the dump chamber because of the banjo bolt, however then the on/off pin would be on the side and would shoot out and it would be all bad. Basically, you can't use any valve other than the original RT valve in an Automag RT.

It's pretty much the black sheep of the group, the odd man out, that's why i like it, it's got charm.

[hillg]

what do you mean that i have one? break that down for dumb ppl like my self

[hillg]

so since the xvavle is out then just go with the lvl 10?

[dixieoutfitter94]

I didnt get it either...

you can put a ULt in that valve right?

[snoopay700]

what do you mean that i have one? break that down for dumb ppl like my self
Ok, AGD produced two kinds of valves, the original AIR valves that are in the 68 Automag, Minimag, 68 Classic, etc. That is the silver valve that we all know and love. Then in 1996 they came out with a new gun with a new valve capable of (theoretically) cycling at 42 times per second, this was the Automag RT with it's RT valve, where it just recharges so fast that it pushes the pin out and makes the gun have a reactive trigger. People didn't like this gun because the american version of the new higher powerfeed was cut wrong or something and they had feeding problems, so they changed it to the body you now have for americans (europe didn't have this problem, don't ask me why, i don't know). People still didn't like the fact that they had to buy a whole new gun just to get that nice little valve that they came out with, so they came out with the ReTro valve which was the same thing as the RT valve but could fit into a normal 68 Automag body. Then they used this same Retro Valve (rebaged with the Emag name) for the Emag. Then people wanted lighter guns, and AGD wanted to keep up, so instead of making only the back half of the RT valves that they produced out of aluminum they decided to make the x-valve and make the entire thing out of aluminum, while keeping the same internals as the RT valve that you have, only the outside is different, so it won't fit in your gun. This is the basic outline of the story, there's more to it, but it doesn't pertain to the valve, so i didn't include it, but basically the main differences between the RT valve and the X-valve are the bodies that they will fit in and the X-Valve (and emag and later i believe) have an extra o-ring which is why they can use the ULT and we RT owners can't.

So basically, they are internally the same valve, yours is just a bit heavier, they haven't come out with a new valve in the past 11 years, largely because they didn't need to, they just changed the exterior of it to suit the customer. If you want an X-valve you're gonna have to cough up $300 bucks for the upgrade, but i personally don't think it's worth it.

EDIT: sorry, just figured the history of it would be simpler than trying to explain it so you could see that they never branched away from the original RT valve really. I would highly reccomend the level 10 though, with my 68 Classic with the level 7 i would break paint because of the bolt all the time (i also had the crappy ANS venturi bolt) and my RT came with a level 10 and i have never even broken paint with it (except for like year old stuff, but it broke in the end of the barrel). It's a good investment, as you'll save money on paint cause more shots will make it to the person.

[dixieoutfitter94]

Ok, AGD produced two kinds of valves, the original AIR valves that are in the 68 Automag, Minimag, 68 Classic, etc. That is the silver valve that we all know and love. Then in 1996 they came out with a new gun with a new valve capable of (theoretically) cycling at 42 times per second, this was the Automag RT with it's RT valve, where it just recharges so fast that it pushes the pin out and makes the gun have a reactive trigger. People didn't like this gun because the american version of the new higher powerfeed was cut wrong or something and they had feeding problems, so they changed it to the body you now have for americans (europe didn't have this problem, don't ask me why, i don't know). People still didn't like the fact that they had to buy a whole new gun just to get that nice little valve that they came out with, so they came out with the ReTro valve which was the same thing as the RT valve but could fit into a normal 68 Automag body. Then they used this same Retro Valve (rebaged with the Emag name) for the Emag. Then people wanted lighter guns, and AGD wanted to keep up, so instead of making only the back half of the RT valves that they produced out of aluminum they decided to make the x-valve and make the entire thing out of aluminum, while keeping the same internals as the RT valve that you have, only the outside is different, so it won't fit in your gun. This is the basic outline of the story, there's more to it, but it doesn't pertain to the valve, so i didn't include it, but basically the main differences between the RT valve and the X-valve are the bodies that they will fit in and the X-Valve (and emag and later i believe) have an extra o-ring which is why they can use the ULT and we RT owners can't.

So basically, they are internally the same valve, yours is just a bit heavier, they haven't come out with a new valve in the past 11 years, largely because they didn't need to, they just changed the exterior of it to suit the customer. If you want an X-valve you're gonna have to cough up $300 bucks for the upgrade, but i personally don't think it's worth it.

EDIT: sorry, just figured the history of it would be simpler than trying to explain it so you could see that they never branched away from the original RT valve really. I would highly reccomend the level 10 though, with my 68 Classic with the level 7 i would break paint because of the bolt all the time (i also had the crappy ANS venturi bolt) and my RT came with a level 10 and i have never even broken paint with it (except for like year old stuff, but it broke in the end of the barrel). It's a good investment, as you'll save money on paint cause more shots will make it to the person. :wow: the average joe would have been way to lazy to type all hat....
:hail:

can he put a ULT in that valve?

[hillg]

so the rt valve that i have is the same as the xvavle besides that the xvalve is not has heavy? And that the xvavle that AGD offers will not fit into the rt because of its size.

[hillg]

and the ULE will not fit unless i send the gun in and get the rt upgrade that comes with the
"new" xvavle from AGD

[snoopay700]

Dixie, if you read carfully (i know, it's probably hard to see it) i said in short, no he cant'.

Hill, you're pretty much spot on, the back half of the x-valve is larger so it will fit into a classic mag with no problem, and then there's the problem of the air source, because it's in the bottom for the RT and in the side for the x (like a classic mag). If you find a picture of an x-valve and compare it to your valve when you take it out the difference will become obvious.

EDIT: and yes to your second questin, well you can make it fit, but you have to make a custom part, someone on here did it before, but it won't fit on without modding.

[hillg]

the xvalve has the air source on the right side where im working on left side with the rt

[ThePixelGuru]

:wow: the average joe would have been way to lazy to type all hat....
:hail:

can he put a ULT in that valve?
:rolleyes: Apparently the average kid was too lazy to read all that...
:cheers:

He can't put a ULT in that valve.

The main differences between the RT valve and the X-valve are the bodies that they will fit in and the X-Valve (and emag and later i believe) have an extra o-ring which is why they can use the ULT and we RT owners can't.

hillg, that's a sweet RT. I thought about picking it up, but my car sensed that I wanted to spend money on something and broke. Poo. Anyway, if I did pick it up, I'd leave it mostly like that, but add an Intelliframe and a different barrel (J&J ceramic, probably). And swap that macro out for a steel braided line, because having a macro line just pop open and vent a tank is lame. Plus stainless steel looks cool. Keep the backout thing going, though, that marker's badass.

[p8ntbal4me]

I dont own a ULE but Im guessing that the reason for the ULE body not fitting the "classic R/T" rail is because the shape of the piece where the frame screw connects to the body.

The R/T classic rail is round where the R/T Pro is eliptical.

In that case you can do another mod that I did to my R/T and that is mill/dremel out the shape for the ULE body.

Really thats what the AGD upgrade kit for the rail and the body is,... the ability to use an X-Valve (so they change the body) and because they change the body they have to change the rail out.

Its not a real big deal to do these things to the R/T. I have a drill press with a compound milling table ($159) and I bought a set of mill-end bits ($99). The dril press you can see in the video of my EP kit,.. I had it in the kitchen! :D

I used a cut off saw to do the body and some sand paper to get the burs of the ends when I was done.

2 SS bodies and 2 rails,... 30 minutes tops. Pretty easy work.

~ P8nt

[hillg]

if I get a new rail and the ule will the rt valve still fit?

[211]

The main differnece in the classic RT and all the other AGD setups is that the classic RT has an air through rail (thats why that piece of hardline goes into yuor rail and not the valve)
because the air enters the valve from the bottom, not the side, you cant readily switch out the older RT for any other valve without getting a differnt rail
The RT calssic uses the same Z lock that all the valves do, but the track for the pin on the RT is cut into the bottom of the body, so if you cut your mainbody back and tried to use a RTPro valve the Zlock pin woulkdnt have a channel to secure into on the RT airthrough rail

Your best bet is to get rid of the macro line, go to stainless its rated to a higher PSI, get an adjustable tank set the output to around 1100 psi and go outshoot the guys with their ramping electros

[p8ntbal4me]

go to stainless its rated to a higher PSI,

SS hose is Macro Line wrapped as you see it.

Correct me if Im wrong, but the the SS hose was intended for the EXTERNAL abuse factor and not to reach a higher internal PSI. Kinda like a marketing factor.

And when I say that, I mean specifically the SS hose we use, not the ones for other applications.

Again,.. I could be wrong. But as for the internal component of the SS hose Im certain.

I have one R/T input running 1000-1100psi (for testing). Have not had any issues yet.

Comments/Corrections Welcome!

~ P8nt

[p8ntbal4me]

here is my gun btw
now how can you tell the dif with an rt and a pro?


http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/12/34115580136.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7247682)

Looking at this picture:

A: As mentioned before, the grip itself is the older style (and the better one IMHO)

B: The front foregrip and ASA mount is a bit wider and looks different in that the "gills" are milled and not "cut".

C: The rail itself has the ability to take gas through the back portion to deliver gas to the Banjo Bolt and up into the valve. You can use classic R/T rails on other mag bodies and valves if you have the bushings to "shim" up the gap found due to the Banjo Bolt.
The bushings are brass, look like Level 10 carriers, and just make the hole small enough to take a standard FS screw and eleminate the play. Buy em from AGD for 3.00 a piece.
Also the "high line" was unique to the classic R/T. Best of my knowledge, Venom Toxic Toyz was the only company to make an aftermarket replacement that came in 2 types. One was as you see it here in the picture, the other had an inline check valve with on/off bleed. I had one on my first Micro Mag. This line could go to the R/T rail or to the valve itself if not used on an R/T. It was a really neat line!

D: The sight rail. Wider, classic look to it. I really think the body and the sight rail make an R/T stand out.

E: The valve is thinner and only fits on a classic R/T rail or one that has been modified to take a Banjo Bolt.

F: The Banjo Bolt. Gas thru delivery to the valve via the rail input holes.

Hope that helps,... Im a graphical guy,.. I need to see things to understand them.

~ P8nt

[p8ntbal4me]

:
He can't put a ULT in that valve.


Correct.

Solution = I had one of my E-Mag valves I bought on eBay drilled out by a guy in TX for $15 bucks to take a ULT.

Call AGD and they will give you the names of 2 people they trust to do the work.

I was told by them that they can drill out a classic R/T valve to take the ULT.

I have not tried nor seen someone do this.

~ P8nt

[hillg]

so I need to get a new valve. great info but that's to technical for

[p8ntbal4me]

so I need to get a new valve. great info but that's to technical for

Nah.
If you like your gun but you want a ULT to make the trigger pull lighter,.. give AGD a call on Monday and ask them for the names of people who will drill out your valve.

Its simple, and takes about a week.

That means the only thing you have to do to this gun is pay for the drilling,.. nothing else.

If you went with the ULE body already then a new valve might be better.

That all depends on your likes and dislikes of your R/T.

It really is a nice looking gun! You want to sell that older body let me know.

~ P8nt

[hillg]

what is it worth to you

Nah.
If you like your gun but you want a ULT to make the trigger pull lighter,.. give AGD a call on Monday and ask them for the names of people who will drill out your valve.

Its simple, and takes about a week.

That means the only thing you have to do to this gun is pay for the drilling,.. nothing else.

If you went with the ULE body already then a new valve might be better.

That all depends on your likes and dislikes of your R/T.

It really is a nice looking gun! You want to sell that older body let me know.

~ P8nt

[snoopay700]

If you haven't bought a ULE mainbody already, don't do it, in that case you're better off going with the upgrade, it's a much better deal. If you did buy one, then you can get a piece of tubing that is the same diameter of the mainbody and cut the holes and parts out needed so your rt valve will fit. It'll look a little ghetto rigged, but it'll be lighter and will work. Mainly i would keep the body you have, it'll be easier, otherwise you'll basically have to buy a whole new gun if you want a new valve, as you'll also need a new rail, and that's when the upgrade is the better option.

Now then, the ULT, if you haven't fired your RT yet, i would recommend you do that before taking the risk of milling out your valve to accept this. I personally think that the RT's stock trigger pull with an intelliframe is light enough, as i can walk it and it's faster than just straight pulling it, but it's not quite as fast as an electric, but then again, i've never needed to shoot that fast, even when i charge people with electros and such or i'm going for the flag.

A much less risky alternative to the ULT is to get a BKO trigger frame (can be found on here for around 10 bucks, i was looking at one from craltal, don't know if he is still selling it) and then making a pnuematic trigger frame, as this will be just like the electrics but will have no batteries, but this is a project and i don't know if you have the tools to do it.

P8ntbal was right, the difference is if you look at where your hard airline is going, it is going into your rail, not your actual valve. The X-valve's input can be on the left or right (as you can switch yours too, but most people keep it stock like yours, like me, though mine came without the sight rail, but i don't mind) but it goes directly into the valve. I will find pictures to help you understand:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/title_level10.jpg
If you look closely you can see on the bottom of the RT valve that there is a gold piece and a little in back of that is a hole, it's not that visible, but it's there. That is the spot that the banjo bolt, the back screw on your trigger frame, screws into, and that is also the air source for the valve. Now, onto the X-Valve/emag/etc. valve:
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/5427/xvalveexplodedff7.gif

As you can see, there is a hole in the top (the valve is upside down) and above it it shows that a gold piece is supposed to go into it (numbers 17-23), the on/off assembly, and this is that little gold spot that we saw on the bottom of the RT valve, and that smaller hole in back of it is for the field strip screw, and that's where the banjo bolt would go if this were an RT valve and so that means that that's where the air source goes for the RT valve, but as you can see on the X-valve is is clearly on the right side of the valve (remember the valve is upside down). You can also see that the back half of the X-valve is a good deal bigger than that of the RT valve, this is the other outside difference, yet internally they are the same.

That is, except for one thing, if you look back at the on/off assembly at the bottom, right above the valve (number 23) there is an o-ring, and the RT is lacking that o-ring and instead of fitting into number 23, the smaller o-ring #22 fits into a piece of metal inside the valve, and it is this piece of metal, even though it's not thick, that is keeping you from using the ULT, so you just have to get someone to drill this out, but you need to find someone who can do it right, so like others said, contact AGD for people who can do it.

If you need me to clear anything up, just let me know.

EDIT: Ah geez, i almost forgot, the other difference between the X-valve and the RT valve is the RT comes stock with a level 7 bolt, the X-valve comes stock with a level 10, so if you are going for the trade in (which i wouldn't, i would keep your body, valve, and everything else, just replace the bolt, and get a ULT if you want to take the risk and tap out your valve) then i wouldn't get a level 10 as the upgrade will include one.

[hillg]

i have right now a ult and new rail. not really wanting the ult cuz of the intellliframe. i read everthing you wrote and i was still scratching my head :confused: I was going to add the lvl 10 to the rt valve but like i said i was confused with what u said. i dont want to spend the money on the xvalve if i dont need to and keep the rt valve. let me know if i can or if i {screwd} my self going the way i am.

YOU GUYS ARE GREAT KEEP ALL THE INFO AND HELP COMING


Edit....Please dont swear here. Thank you. I fixed it THIS time. :ninja: :argh:

[hillg]

as things come to gether i will post pics and details of whats goin on. i hope it looks and works as good as i dream

[mr doo doo]

what i... *ahem* maybe a level 10, a benchmark or intelliframe, and probably a barrel would do you just good in terms of upgrades ;)

[snoopay700]

as things come to gether i will post pics and details of whats goin on. i hope it looks and works as good as i dream
You don't need the ULT in my opinion, but you can get it tapped to accept one if you want, contact AGD for people who can do this.

You don't need an X-Valve, it's teh same valve that you have for a DIFFERENT gun.

Get a level ten if you intend to keep the gun how it is rather than doing the $300 trade in.

[p8ntbal4me]

i have right now a ult and new rail. not really wanting the ult cuz of the intellliframe. i read everthing you wrote and i was still scratching my head :confused: I was going to add the lvl 10 to the rt valve but like i said i was confused with what u said. i dont want to spend the money on the xvalve if i dont need to and keep the rt valve. let me know if i can or if i {screwd} my self going the way i am.

YOU GUYS ARE GREAT KEEP ALL THE INFO AND HELP COMING


Edit....Please dont swear here. Thank you. I fixed it THIS time. :ninja: :argh:



Okay well let us help you a bit more then.

The parts your talking about I think your confused on what you can and can not mix.

So,... for your R/T WITH the older valve here are your options:

Rail: the one you have or the R/T Pro (and the like) as long as you use the correct sear for that rail you choose

Body: have to use classic bodies for the most part. You could get away with another one but you wont like the way it will look (the valve and body lines dont line up)

Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)

And for your R/T with the ULE body:

Rail: have to use the R/T Pro or E-Mag spec rails. Exception to this is to dremel or mill the round body mount hole to an eliptical shape that the ULE will take (10 minute job)

Body: depends on the rail you use.

Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)

For both of these routes you can use a ULT as long as you have the older valve drilled out.

For the newer X-Valve it should fit as is for a ULT. Walking the trigger is easier with the ULT.

So ask yourself,... do I want an X-Valve?

If you do you have 2 options: Cut the older body or get a ULE body

If you get the ULE body, now you need a rail that fits it.

The ULE/Rail/X-Valve route is mor expensive from where you stand unless you do some work to the rail yourself.

Cheapest route is to send the valve out to get drilled for the ULT, slap the Intelli frame on the gun, maybe get the level 10 with an X-Valve when your ready. You dont need the bolt yet,.. but its nice to have. Id think you would be happy right away with the ULT in your older valve and that Intelli-frame. Right there you will notice a difference in the rate of fire.

~ P8nt

[snoopay700]

Okay well let us help you a bit more then.

The parts your talking about I think your confused on what you can and can not mix.

So,... for your R/T WITH the older valve here are your options:

Rail: the one you have or the R/T Pro (and the like) as long as you use the correct sear for that rail you choose

Body: have to use classic bodies for the most part. You could get away with another one but you wont like the way it will look (the valve and body lines dont line up)

Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)

And for your R/T with the ULE body:

Rail: have to use the R/T Pro or E-Mag spec rails. Exception to this is to dremel or mill the round body mount hole to an eliptical shape that the ULE will take (10 minute job)

Body: depends on the rail you use.

Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)

For both of these routes you can use a ULT as long as you have the older valve drilled out.

For the newer X-Valve it should fit as is for a ULT. Walking the trigger is easier with the ULT.

So ask yourself,... do I want an X-Valve?

If you do you have 2 options: Cut the older body or get a ULE body

If you get the ULE body, now you need a rail that fits it.

The ULE/Rail/X-Valve route is mor expensive from where you stand unless you do some work to the rail yourself.

Cheapest route is to send the valve out to get drilled for the ULT, slap the Intelli frame on the gun, maybe get the level 10 with an X-Valve when your ready. You dont need the bolt yet,.. but its nice to have. Id think you would be happy right away with the ULT in your older valve and that Intelli-frame. Right there you will notice a difference in the rate of fire.

~ P8nt
NONONONONONONONONONO

He can't use an RTPro rail with his valve. He can't get the ULE body, even if he gets a new rail. He can't use an older body (or any other body) as the valve wont' lock and just won't be in the right position. Classic rails won't fit because of the different front screw mount. Your whole second half of your post doesn't seem to know what it's talking about, nor the first half, outside of the bolts and that you would need a new rail and body for an x-valve.

EDIT: No offense, but it seems like you've never dealt with an old RT before, and the front mount is the same shape a a ULE body, but it still won't work with a ULE body or a classic body unless he mills his rail (for the classic body) and makes a special sleeve.

[p8ntbal4me]

Errr,... wtf?

I need to stop posting when studying for finals :tard:

Just ignore that first post,... Im editing the thing right now!

Nice grab Snoop.

~ P8nt



NONONONONONONONONONO

He can't use an RTPro rail with his valve. He can't get the ULE body, even if he gets a new rail. He can't use an older body (or any other body) as the valve wont' lock and just won't be in the right position. Classic rails won't fit because of the different front screw mount. Your whole second half of your post doesn't seem to know what it's talking about, nor the first half, outside of the bolts and that you would need a new rail and body for an x-valve.

EDIT: No offense, but it seems like you've never dealt with an old RT before, and the front mount is the same shape a a ULE body, but it still won't work with a ULE body or a classic body unless he mills his rail (for the classic body) and makes a special sleeve.

[snoopay700]

Errr,... wtf?

I need to stop posting when studying for finals :tard:

Just ignore that first post,... Im editing the thing right now!

Nice grab Snoop.

~ P8nt
I was about to say, what the heck are you talking about haha. Anwyay, in short hillg, just keep what you have, put on a level 10, and if you really want the ULT call AGD and ask who you can get to drill the valve out to accept the ULT.

[hillg]

this is what i have right now so u can see what im working with. Hope this helps us all.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r90/kkemp2/rail1.jpg
comes with Rail, sear and sear pin, snatch grip, foregrip

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r90/kkemp2/ule.jpg
my ule body

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r90/kkemp2/inteliframe.jpg
the frame on the left is mine.

this is the stuff i will add, and i need to get a new valve let me know. hope i dont thats the reason im using the rt but if i do then it is what it is. When all said and done this will be one sick looking and shooting gun!

[snoopay700]

This is a very important question, did you buy ANY of that stuff yet? if not, DON'T. If you have, all i can say is try to sell it or save it until you get your 2nd mag (they all eventually do for the most part). The only thing i would recommend for you to add is the intelliframe, but ONLY if it is for teh original RT, which is what you have. It that's not what it is for, it won't work, i will try to get a picture comparing my mags and their grip frames to show you why this is important, i'll be back with the pictures in about 10 minutes.

[hillg]

i have the stuff already. why wont it work? should i get rid of this rt and get a classic 68?

[snoopay700]

i have the stuff already. why wont it work? should i get rid of this rt and get a classic 68?
Well you can't use it with the classic RT and i will show you why, i have to upload the photos and then i will show you the differences, so hang tight for another 10 minutes or so, maybe a little longer.

[hillg]

another thing i was thinking is dont i have pretty much everything to build a mag? other then a bolt and a trigger pin?

[snoopay700]

No you do not, and let us embark on my explanation of the differences between the the Automag RT and all other mags, and that is mainly the valve. First there was the Classic Valve, which once again, we all know and love. Then came the RT valve which was shaped differently on the outside, which people didn't like, so they based the new RT valve (ReTro and emag and X-Valves) off of the Classic Valve's exterior while internally it was the same as the RT valve. This should be an easy thing to understand unless i worded it wrong, but basically the X-valve has the same dimensions as the Classic valve, though it works just like an RT valve.

That said, here we go:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/DSCN0433-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/DSCN0434-2.jpg

Now then the classic valved mag on top has a much smaller hole in the rear of the trigger frame as you can see, and this is because the RT has a different field strip screw than all over mags.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/DSCN0435.jpg

Here we can see the culprit, on the right is the RT field strip pin. If you look closely through the blurriness, you might be able to see the hole between the bottom two o-rings, and this is were the air enters the screw from the rail, and then it goes into your gun, so the RT's air input is in the bottom, courtesy of this screw.

On the right is the screw that the Classic mag and the RT Pro and all other mags and valves use, and it is much thinner as you can see, which makes it so that you need a trigger from with a larger hole to allow for the RT's larger field strip screw, so i hope that that is what you have, although if you have a substantial clamp and drill press, you may be able to remedy that, we can get into that later, i find buying an RT intelliframe to be easier.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/DSCN0436-2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/DSCN0439-2.jpg

This might take a trained eye to see, but you can clearly see that looking at it from the back the guide pin for the classic/X-valve would be on the left side, where as the RT's is on the right, and it's not milled into the rail like that for the classic/X-valve, it is cut into the mainbody. This is the reason why you cannot use a ULE body without making a custom part, that and you need another hole in the custom part for the Banjo Bolt (RT's field strip screw).

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/DSCN0440-2.jpg

Here we can see the differences on the valves (the X-valve looks like the Classic valve only instead of the circle on/off it's got the gold one like the RT). The guide pin is on opposite sides, as looking at it from this angle, the RT's pin is on the right side and the Classic/X-valve's is on the left (if you can't make it out, the RT's guide pin is the spec of white on the black on the left side, the classic's is on the left between the two upper holes, i forgot to circle these). We also see that the RT has a much bigger hole that is circled, and this is because this is where that bigger screw goes, and it's also where the RT gets its air from, where as the Classic/X-valve gets it from an external source as you can see from the 90* fitting.

Here are some more for comparison:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/DSCN0441.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/DSCN0442.jpg

I hope that helps to clear up the differences and why you can't use those things. I would keep the gun, and then if the intelliframe won't fit the field strip screw then sell it and the other parts (or keep them for if you get an x-valve or classic valve, as that is all you will need to make another gun with everything you have there if the intelliframe won't fit on your RT). If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask, i'll do my best to try to answer them.


EDIT: If you wanted to, you could buy an X-valve or a Classic valve or a ReTro Valve or an Emag Valve and a field strip screw (one on the left in my picture) and drop it into what you have right now (i think, i'm not sure if that intelli is for a normal mag or RT, but i'm fearing it's for a normal mag) and you would have two mags right there, so in short, i envy you. For a mere 100-300 (depending on if you get a ReTro or emag valve used or a new X-valve) you would have another high performing gun, and if you got an emag valve or an X-valve (only one that COMES with a level 10) then you could just drop a ULT right in. If you're satisfied with the RT you have though, sell the other stuff and buy an intelliframe from AGD for the RT.

[trevorjk]

ok i will make this SUPER SUPER EASY for you.

the older RT. leave it as is

with all the parts you have coming in. (ule body, rail with sear pin and sear, snatch grip, forgrip, intelliframe) all you need is an RT PRO style valve (RT PRO and E-MAG are stainless steel and E-max, X, X-valve are alluminum) AND a field strip screw. then if you want to, get a ULT trigger kit, and a Level 10(if the valve did not come with either the ULT or LX)

this way you have 2 complete mags for when the GF/wifey wants to play :p

also if you go this route you could then sell one or the other. the old RT looks to be in AMAZING condition and should probably get around 250ish. if you complete the new mag with all the new parts you got you could probably fetch 450ish. both are estimates from lack of knowing current prices but that should be fairly close to the ball park

[snoopay700]

ok i will make this SUPER SUPER EASY for you.

the older RT. leave it as is

with all the parts you have coming in. (ule body, rail with sear pin and sear, snatch grip, forgrip, intelliframe) all you need is an RT PRO style valve (RT PRO and E-MAG are stainless steel and E-max, X, X-valve are alluminum) AND a field strip screw. then if you want to, get a ULT trigger kit, and a Level 10(if the valve did not come with either the ULT or LX)

this way you have 2 complete mags for when the GF/wifey wants to play :p

also if you go this route you could then sell one or the other. the old RT looks to be in AMAZING condition and should probably get around 250ish. if you complete the new mag with all the new parts you got you could probably fetch 450ish. both are estimates from lack of knowing current prices but that should be fairly close to the ball park
I said that same exact thing in the last paragraph of my post, the other part of my post was to show him the difference between the guns to show him WHY that stuff wouldn't work with his gun, rather than leaving him clueless and wondering why he can't use all this automag stuff he bought on his classic RT.

EDIT: I forgot about zak for a while, go here: http://www.zakvetter.com/pages/paintballs/automag_info/agd_valves.html

That says the difference between the valves and the note in bold at the bottom explains everything i've been saying in an easy way.

[trevorjk]

I said that same exact thing in the last paragraph of my post, the other part of my post was to show him the difference between the guns to show him WHY that stuff wouldn't work with his gun, rather than leaving him clueless and wondering why he can't use all this automag stuff he bought on his classic RT.

EDIT: I forgot about zak for a while, go here: http://www.zakvetter.com/pages/paintballs/automag_info/agd_valves.html

That says the difference between the valves and the note in bold at the bottom explains everything i've been saying in an easy way.


oh i know, but Hillg wanted laymans terms. so i put it down super easy for him. i know you did as well, but i took out all the clarification :p

[snoopay700]

oh i know, but Hillg wanted laymans terms. so i put it down super easy for him. i know you did as well, but i took out all the clarification :p
Well i do tend to over complicate things when i explain them, as you can see from nearly every post of mine in this thread being about a book long, mainly because that's how i can understand it, so i suppose i can forgive you for that, however that whole sticking your tongue out at me, you'll have to send me an x-valved mag or an xmag for me to be able to forgive you, i'm sorry, there's just no way around it :p
EDIT: i just realized p8nt's post still has some errors, unless i'm not following what he means, i'll wait until someone else posts so i don't double post or take this one off topic and make it really long.

[trevorjk]

Well i do tend to over complicate things when i explain them, as you can see from nearly every post of mine in this thread being about a book long, mainly because that's how i can understand it, so i suppose i can forgive you for that, however that whole sticking your tongue out at me, you'll have to send me an x-valved mag or an xmag for me to be able to forgive you, i'm sorry, there's just no way around it :p
EDIT: i just realized p8nt's post still has some errors, unless i'm not following what he means, i'll wait until someone else posts so i don't double post or take this one off topic and make it really long.


actually if you have a pretty penny i know where 2 CAN be bought ;) gloss purple with matching warp breech and a black to pewter to silver fade which was a factory bad anno (but still looks fine) :cool:

[snoopay700]

actually if you have a pretty penny i know where 2 CAN be bought ;) gloss purple with matching warp breech and a black to pewter to silver fade which was a factory bad anno (but still looks fine) :cool:
Heh, yeah, not gonna work, stuff happened and now i'm in debt, so probably for a few months after i finally get a job i can't buy anything, and then a car will be my main priority probably.

Now for p8nt's post, my responses are in bold:

Okay well let us help you a bit more then.

The parts your talking about I think your confused on what you can and can not mix.

So,... for your R/T WITH the older valve here are your options:

Rail: the one you have or the R/T Pro (and the like) as long as you use the correct sear for that rail you choose
This is completely wrong, with the classic RT valve, you can only use the rail that you have, because it's the only rail that will allow you to put air into your valve because it's the only one with a gas through rail

Body: have to use classic bodies for the most part. You could get away with another one but you wont like the way it will look (the valve and body lines dont line up)
This is also wrong, you can theoretically use classic bodies, but only if you mill out your rail to accept the rectangular front, as the RT has a circle front mount. A ULE body will fit right onto your gun, however like i said in my post with pictures, you need a custom back made so you have the part that locks your valve with the guide pin, so basically you're pretty much stuck with what you have.

Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)
This is completely true, you can use this bolt with your valve, you can use them with all AGD valves.

And for your R/T with the ULE body:

Rail: have to use the R/T Pro or E-Mag spec rails. Exception to this is to dremel or mill the round body mount hole to an eliptical shape that the ULE will take (10 minute job)
Like i said, this is false, you can put teh ULE body right on, but you won't have the back half covering your valve and you won't have basically what you need, you would need to make a custom part for this to work, or to get another valve such as an X-valve, or even a classic valve, if you get either of these you can put them on teh ULE body you have and the trigger frame and rail that i told you you can't use on your RT, then you'll have two guns

Body: depends on the rail you use.
This is true, what body you can use depends on the rail you have, the rail you have will only accept the body you have, any others will require tedious modification

Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)
See above

For both of these routes you can use a ULT as long as you have the older valve drilled out.
Again, this is true, contact AGD to see who you can trust to do it

For the newer X-Valve it should fit as is for a ULT. Walking the trigger is easier with the ULT.
Also true, you can get an x-valve, put it on the new parts you bought, drop a ULT in it and it'll rip faster than your RT that you bought, so you can use that one as a loaner. The bad thing is this will cost around 300 dollars or so

So ask yourself,... do I want an X-Valve?

If you do you have 2 options: Cut the older body or get a ULE body
This won't work, the rail you have won't really allow it because it's lacking the locking groove for the guide pin of the x-valve, but you can use it in that nice new rail you bought

If you get the ULE body, now you need a rail that fits it.
This is true, but you already have one, and any rail can fit this body, it's just the classic RT won't work with it

The ULE/Rail/X-Valve route is mor expensive from where you stand unless you do some work to the rail yourself.
This is irrelevant because you have a rail, although he's pretty much right on this if i'm understanding it

Cheapest route is to send the valve out to get drilled for the ULT, slap the Intelli frame on the gun, maybe get the level 10 with an X-Valve when your ready. You dont need the bolt yet,.. but its nice to have. Id think you would be happy right away with the ULT in your older valve and that Intelli-frame. Right there you will notice a difference in the rate of fire.
This is a bad idea, if you get the valve drilled out to accept the ULT just get a level 10, as you can't use the x-valve on your classic RT but you can use it to make a whole new gun with that rail, ULE body, and intelliframe that you ordered, let us know if you take that route and post pictures

~ P8nt

I'm not doing this to badmouth p8nt, or make him look bad, i just want to make sure that you (hillg) get the right information so you don't do something that you'll regret. I blame his mistakes on his brain being fried from studying for finals, we've all been there for the most part.

EDIT: Sorry about the low quality of the pictures, my camera tends to do that unless you set the flash a certain way or something, that camera makes me mad, and that button for the flash is broken or something. Hooray for quality products.

[hillg]

i have always gone with the xvalve on my mags but just wanted to know what the difference is with the emag valve?

[snoopay700]

i have always gone with the xvalve on my mags but just wanted to know what the difference is with the emag valve?
Nothing, it's the same valve, only the front half is made out of stainless steel (excluding the Emax and such). I would just put an x-valve or some other valve on that ULE body, rail, and intelliframe you got and make another gun, and then you'll be good to go.

[BigTrucker]

If your looking to put some money into it you could add a ULE body.
http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=367&categoryID=9
Your better off just buying a new RT instead of sending it in for an upgrade

[snoopay700]

Your better off just buying a new RT instead of sending it in for an upgrade
That costs over 150 more than just sending it in, although i'm with you there, only because i like the classic RT and would hate to see another one die.

[hillg]

im going to keep the rt the way it is. I will be putting a new gun together with all the parts i have.

That costs over 150 more than just sending it in, although i'm with you there, only because i like the classic RT and would hate to see another one die.

[snoopay700]

im going to keep the rt the way it is. I will be putting a new gun together with all the parts i have.
:clap: Another classic RT lives to see another day. Just like i can't explain why people hate them so much, i can't explain why i love them so much.

[snoopay700]

Sorry for the double post, but i finally found it, this is what you'll need to make it so you can use a ULE body on a classic RT:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=177563&highlight=ule

[p8ntbal4me]

Okay.

Im back from work now and I got some time to edit my post,.. so Im gonna re-post what Snoopy said and I'll go from there.

I figured out what makes all my options seem wrong so Im changing them now. Foget what I said about the choice for uses of the older valve and the newer valve..... just go for each component.

Choices of Rails: If you want to use your older valve,.. like Snoopy said,.. you have to use the older one with the gas ports drilled into it.
If you dont want to use your older valve, your choices are limited to the body specs. Check the mounting hole on the body to see if it fits the rail you want to use.
You can use your older R/T rail with EVERY body out there if you cut an eliptical shape out around the mounting hole space in your rail.

Body: have to use classic bodies for the most part. You could get away with another one but you wont like the way it will look (the valve and body lines dont line up)

I should have said CLASSIC R/T bodies,.. thats what I mean to say. I figured we were talking about the R/T,..and that to me is the R/T,.. not the R/T Pro.

So when I said "classic bodies", I meant classic R/T bodies with a twist lock.

If you want to use your older rail,.. your stuck with a classic R/T body style or one that fits the mounting hole footprint of the rail. Again,... check the body to see what will fit.


Bolts: you can use the standard Level 7 you have with your valve or you can get a level 10 and use that. The level 10 is an anti-chop (which does work when properly tuned)

So ask yourself,... do I want an X-Valve?

If you do you have 2 options: Cut the older body or get a ULE body
This won't work, the rail you have won't really allow it because it's lacking the locking groove for the guide pin of the x-valve, but you can use it in that nice new rail you bought
Your correct where you say the rail wont work unless you mod it,.. but cutting the body to fit a new X-Valve which is why I specifically put the part "Do I want an X-Valve?" before this line. I know,.. un-clear. So what I meant what that if you decide you like your classic body, you need a new rail because the new X-Valve has the guide pin sticking out. You can take it off,.. but not recommended (safety).

The ULE/Rail/X-Valve route is mor expensive from where you stand unless you do some work to the rail yourself.
This is irrelevant because you have a rail, although he's pretty much right on this if i'm understanding it

Cheapest route is to send the valve out to get drilled for the ULT, slap the Intelli frame on the gun, maybe get the level 10 with an X-Valve when your ready. You dont need the bolt yet,.. but its nice to have. Id think you would be happy right away with the ULT in your older valve and that Intelli-frame. Right there you will notice a difference in the rate of fire.

This is a bad idea, if you get the valve drilled out to accept the ULT just get a level 10, as you can't use the x-valve on your classic RT but you can use it to make a whole new gun with that rail, ULE body, and intelliframe that you ordered, let us know if you take that route and post pictures

Err,.. .this part is confusing Snoop. How is this a bad idea? And the way I read this,.. how are you relating the ULT to the level 10? One lightens the trigger pull, the other prevents chopped paint. The original question was "what can I do" so we were listing all possible options. At the time of my post he didnt have the ULE body,.. so that was not an option for his choices in hand. He said he had a rail and the ULT. So I posted from my point what he could do,.... jsut my post was WAY WAY confusing.

A whole new gun will cost him more, and he will still have left over parts that he cant use when he pieces from one rail to another valve. Basically the way I read your opinion,.. he should not upgrade the R/T and get a newer R/T Pro. I cant see how thats cheaper beyond a ULT and maybe a level 10.

I'm not doing this to badmouth p8nt, or make him look bad, i just want to make sure that you (hillg) get the right information so you don't do something that you'll regret. I blame his mistakes on his brain being fried from studying for finals, we've all been there for the most part.

Its kewl,.. I should have never hit the submit button at the time. Burns me that I was so out of wack that night due to school work. Besides,... we all here to help where we can! :)

Anyways,... Hillg,.. you got choices. I like your interest in the R/T,.. but I think Snoop is right. Take your pieces of what you have new,.. piece a newer R/T together and use that. Keep your classic R/T, and upgrade it a little bit at a time when you can. A ULT here, a level 10 there. Then you can have 2 guns, both working, from one generation to the next.

Nothing is hotter than a classic R/T ripping 20+bps!!!!!

~ P8nt

[hillg]

i have been seeing people with Pnuemags mags. What is this? what does it mean? From what i have seen it has something to do with your frame?

[p8ntbal4me]

i have been seeing people with Pnuemags mags. What is this? what does it mean? From what i have seen it has something to do with your frame?

Im not an expert on the Pneumags cause Ive only built one. Im more into the EP Mags.

To answer your question:

A Pneumag is an AGD marker that uses a ram to push the sear and cycle the gun rather than the pressure from your finger on the trigger, which pushes a sear rod back and fires the gun. Simple version.

What we do is take the sear rod out, install a MSV-2 (which has air running thought it and is attached to the trigger inside the frame via a small rod behind your trigger.

When you pull the trigger, the MSV-2 is pushed and it allows air to run up into the ram and hit the sear,.. which fires the gun.

Idea is,.... it takes ounces to push the MSV-2,... and you can fire your mag very fast.

Again,... this is the simple version. Other users on here are better to answer the question if you decide to go this route.

~ P8nt

[hillg]

is it worth going that way? i mean this is a project gun and its not like i need it right away. Just need to know how hard it is to do and is it alot of $$$$. Plus im going with the inteliframe will that make a diffrence.

[p8ntbal4me]

is it worth going that way? i mean this is a project gun and its not like i need it right away. Just need to know how hard it is to do and is it alot of $$$$. Plus im going with the inteliframe will that make a diffrence.

I wouldnt dive into it right away until you have a gun to play ball with and then get a gun to do the mod to.

Just my 2 cents.

[hillg]

[QUOTE=p8ntbal4me]I wouldnt dive into it right away until you have a gun to play ball with and then get a gun to do the mod to.

Just my 2 cents.[/QU

i got guns. fusion f8, spyder vs3, system x cocker. this is my baby that we are working on here.

[snoopay700]

To P8nt:

I suppose we're both really bad at expressing what we really mean, as we both have had to go back and elaborate our meanings :)

What i meant by it's a bad idea is i meant that if he does drill out his valve to accept the ULT then i personally think it's a bad idea for him to wait until he gets an x-valve to get a level 10, because then he wouldn't need an x-valve and i think it's cheaper to just put a level 10 in his RT, then make another gun with his other parts if he wants, but don't wait because unless he has a really good hopper he has a chance of chopping, especially if he walks it with the ULT.

As for upgrading to an RT Pro, i just don't think he should do that since he's halfway, i was simply saying that he shouldn't wait until he gets an x-valve to get a level 10.

As for your final statement about making a new one and upping the classic a little at a time, i couldn't agree more.

edit: As for the pnumag, you can do this with an intelliframe, all you need is either a mill or a dremel, i would suggest the former as it'll be cleaner, and a drill that you can drill the frame with. PM Pnuemagger for a link to his video that tells you exactly how to do it, it's great.

[hillg]

well the new project is coming together. I have a new rail, RPG vert asa, ule and inteliframe. The gun is going to a pneumag and i have all the parts to get that started. I have contacted thefool who is going to do some anno work. Is going to be blue and black with the barrel kit fading from black to blue. I will get some pics up on here with all the parts before the gun is put together and annoed. Will keep you posted. BTW i am also looking to get a karta rail and body so if anyone knows of someone trying to sell one let me know.

[snoopay700]

well the new project is coming together. I have a new rail, RPG vert asa, ule and inteliframe. The gun is going to a pneumag and i have all the parts to get that started. I have contacted thefool who is going to do some anno work. Is going to be blue and black with the barrel kit fading from black to blue. I will get some pics up on here with all the parts before the gun is put together and annoed. Will keep you posted. BTW i am also looking to get a karta rail and body so if anyone knows of someone trying to sell one let me know.
You should definitely get pictures up of both of your mags, especially the RT, i don't know why but i love guns that go away from the norm (even if it's bad like in the case of the RT, as i found mine weighs 4 pounds without a tank, 6 with).

[hillg]

ill get some pics up in a few days

[hillg]

here are some pics of the gun before we send it out for some anno work. will post pics when it comes back.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r90/kkemp2/IMG_0075.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r90/kkemp2/IMG_0074.jpg