Brass Freak Inserts

[Warwitch]

So all I ever hear is how good brass shoots, its so smooth, best barrels, blah, blah, ...... Im considering having some brass Freak inserts made for my DW Fibur. Anybody think this is a valid concept?? Pointless??

[MedicDVG]

I have heard that the Stainless steel inserts are far superior to the aluminum, so why not brass. :tard:

[Chronobreak]

its valid,

though you may want to check the legalities

[angrysasquatch]

Actually, I've heard the stainless inserts shoot worse than the aluminum. The stainless has a worse surface finish than the anodized aluminum, so it doesn't shoot through breaks as well. If you're just making a few for yourself, I wouldn't worry about the legalities. Otherwise, we all know what Smart Parts does best...

Brass would certainly be better, but I'm not sure you'd see any appreciable difference. Only one way to find out though.

[georgeyew]

I have heard that the Stainless steel inserts are far superior to the aluminum, so why not brass. :tard:

I suspect that the inserts that are made so thin out of brass would be very soft and delicate. But if you can get it to work, I think that it would be a great idea.

[Warwitch]

I suspect that the inserts that are made so thin out of brass would be very soft and delicate. But if you can get it to work, I think that it would be a great idea.


Hmmm, hadnt considered that...... Though Im thinking they wouldnt be subject to much stress. Pretty much from the case to the barrel.

[snoopay700]

Hmmm, hadnt considered that...... Though Im thinking they wouldnt be subject to much stress. Pretty much from the case to the barrel.
Plus any stress would be from the inside to the outside, from the ball itself, as long as you're careful oh how you put the insert in, and the barrel would provide teh sturctual support for that, so as long as you have a barrel that accepts inserts and surrounds the insert you should be fine.

I don't see why it would be a drastic increase, if you had a seal to worry about it would help that, but other than that it doesn't seem like it would make much of a difference.

[TwilightG]

I suspect that the inserts that are made so thin out of brass would be very soft and delicate. But if you can get it to work, I think that it would be a great idea.

Don't accidentally step on one...

[going_home]

So all I ever hear is how good brass shoots, its so smooth, best barrels, blah, blah, ...... Im considering having some brass Freak inserts made for my DW Fibur. Anybody think this is a valid concept?? Pointless??

I think the cost would far out weigh any benefits.
(compared to the cost of the aluminum inserts)

:wow:

[angrysasquatch]

Brass is stronger than aluminum (99% sure) You'd also have to worry about machining it, it would be quite hard to make on a lathe since the sidewalls are so small. SP just does it the lazy way, polish a piece of extruded aluminum. That's why the sizes are so far off if you ever take a vernier to them.

[MANN]

So all I ever hear is how good brass shoots, its so smooth, best barrels, blah, blah, ......


This is not true. The material has nothing to do with how well it shoots. It all depends on the smoothness of the bore.


Pointless??

Yes

[Duzzy]

The material can have an effect. Brass for instance may tarnish unless treated, both the tarnishing and the treatment might affect tolerances, how much temperature differences change the metal is another thing to consider.

But generally the smoothest bore is probably a good bet for a single piece barrel, for an insert kit you want smooth, stable, and sized correctly.

IMHO.

[DevilMan]

to make things smooth I would take some metal polish, rub it on a battle swab (old one thta you don't want/need anymore) and chuck it up in a drill...

run it it in and out of the barrel/inserts a few times to polish it up nice n smooth.... Don't do it too much or you'll drastically change the bore size....

YMMV,

I don't claim to be an engineer and am not responsible for you jackin up your shiznit!!!

DM

[DevilMan]

To make things smooth I would take some metal polish, rub it on a battle swab (old one thta you don't want/need anymore) and chuck it up in a drill...

Run it it in and out of the barrel/inserts a few times to polish it up nice n smooth..... Don't do it too much or you'll drastically change the bore size....

YMMV,

I don't claim to be an engineer and am not responsible for you jackin up your shiznit!!!

Oh and afterwards give it a good liberal coating of Rain X on the inside of the barrel.... that should shed any broken paint fast enough.... WD40 should work as well.... ;)

DM

[MANN]

Oh and afterwards give it a good liberal coating of Rain X on the inside of the barrel.... that should shed any broken paint fast enough.... WD40 should work as well.... ;)

DM

Another thing that is not true. Rainx will not help clean paint out of a barrel.

[Warwitch]

This is not true. The material has nothing to do with how well it shoots. It all depends on the smoothness of the bore.


Thanks for chiming in MANN! But yeah, I thought that brass held a better hone than SS or alum. which is why I thought they would make a better insert. Of course I base this on absolutely nothing :p

And everybody keeps talking about the cost. Its not a complex item to machine? I would think Palmers could do a set with little to no problem.

[DevilMan]

:confused:

Why for not??? I know that the paint isn't officially H2O dominate.... or something like that... I know it's oily... but how would putting a coating on a surface not help????

Do tell.... Not meaning to argue either, I'd like to know... I personally don't give a crap most of the time... I just stop and squeegee...

DM

[Lohman446]

Despite the fact that I go out and buy a certain two piece barrel for every marker I own I'm going to go with the idea that barrel material makes very little difference considering our imperfect projectile assuming we get "close enough" to being decent.

I have always been able to shoot through breaks in the stainless inserts though.

[MANN]

:confused:

Why for not??? I know that the paint isn't officially H2O dominate.... or something like that... I know it's oily... but how would putting a coating on a surface not help????

Do tell.... Not meaning to argue either, I'd like to know... I personally don't give a crap most of the time... I just stop and squeegee...

DM

We tried a few different compounds inside barrels when we tested them. cooking oil, motor oil, rainx, water based lubricants, athleates foot powder, and a few other things (I would have to look to see what all we tried). all of them acted like broken paint when applied. basically something to cause drag, and make the paintball play pinball inside the barrel.

[MANN]

Despite the fact that I go out and buy a certain two piece barrel for every marker I own I'm going to go with the idea that barrel material makes very little difference considering our imperfect projectile assuming we get "close enough" to being decent.

I have always been able to shoot through breaks in the stainless inserts though.

I just buy cocker threaded markers.

[MANN]

Thanks for chiming in MANN! But yeah, I thought that brass held a better hone than SS or alum. which is why I thought they would make a better insert. Of course I base this on absolutely nothing :p

And everybody keeps talking about the cost. Its not a complex item to machine? I would think Palmers could do a set with little to no problem.

I have never studied brass, but have also heard this. the pps brass barrel is not bad, but there are defiently better barrels.

One thing that I know is that when you compress metal it becomes less porus, and therefore does not allow pits for debris to stay in. Doing this to the interior of a barrel would be nice :ninja: One barrel already does this.

[Lohman446]

To make things smooth I would take some metal polish, rub it on a battle swab (old one thta you don't want/need anymore) and chuck it up in a drill...

Run it it in and out of the barrel/inserts a few times to polish it up nice n smooth..... Don't do it too much or you'll drastically change the bore size....

YMMV,

I don't claim to be an engineer and am not responsible for you jackin up your shiznit!!!

Oh and afterwards give it a good liberal coating of Rain X on the inside of the barrel.... that should shed any broken paint fast enough.... WD40 should work as well.... ;)

DM


And, when I am reffing - likely get you heavily penalized if not banned depending on how bad of a mood I am in. At best you are going to get a rather strict warning. It is against most rules to coat a barrel with anything. Paintballs are biodegradable and non-toxic. Is whatever you are coating your barrel with? What if you open skin with one that has more than a little on it? What if your opponent has an allergic reaction?

That being said - it does help, or seems to

[DevilMan]

We tried a few different compounds inside barrels when we tested them. cooking oil, motor oil, rainx, water based lubricants, athleates foot powder, and a few other things (I would have to look to see what all we tried). all of them acted like broken paint when applied. basically something to cause drag, and make the paintball play pinball inside the barrel.

Point taken.... but I'm hmmmmm not talking about leaving it wet.... but coating it good then wiping it down... like oiling a gun.... you make it wet let it sit and absorb a bit then wipe off the excess....

But you're the expert... thanx for the input... :D And now back to the topic at hand...

DM

[MANN]

Point taken.... but I'm hmmmmm not talking about leaving it wet.... but coating it good then wiping it down... like oiling a gun.... you make it wet let it sit and absorb a bit then wipe off the excess....

But you're the expert... thanx for the input... :D And now back to the topic at hand...

DM

believe me we tried to get quite a few things to work. nothing made an improvement on just clean metal.

[DevilMan]

And, when I am reffing - likely get you heavily penalized if not banned depending on how bad of a mood I am in. At best you are going to get a rather strict warning. It is against most rules to coat a barrel with anything. Paintballs are biodegradable and non-toxic. Is whatever you are coating your barrel with? What if you open skin with one that has more than a little on it? What if your opponent has an allergic reaction?

That being said - it does help, or seems to


Well true nuff... but if you could gleam any of the residue off the balls and separate out from all the other gunk being thrown then I guess so..... but yes WD40 is Biodegradable and so is Rain X. And why is it against rules to coat something???? Isn't that like saying you can't have ceramic coated??? Why not teflon coated barrels????

Just options... Now I understand coated with stuff that comes off... but I hardly see how you can make it any worse than the lubes that go into the guns that come out with the air.... or any of the other contaminates...

But thanx for the info MANN.... I'm sure that a super clean, smooth, honed barrel is much nicer as it's consistent....

DM

[warbeak2099]

Are you serious? If rainx got under someone's skin you'd be getting a visit from a civil attorney.

[mostpeople]

Probably not worth the hundreds of dollars in effort there buddy - I mean yeah its a cool - look at what I got thing...

anyways if you have oodles of cash why not - but if you dont... why?

Besides brass is very very ductile, and as a thin hollow cylinder like that, VERY easily bent/dented/otherwise misshapen. I definately do NOT reccomend this.

[Pullman]

For the amount of effort required why not just make 5 brass barrels?

[mostpeople]

And, do you honestly think the accuracy in the brass vs. aluminum - which cant be that much of a difference anyways (even if it is true - which I doubt) is going to make a difference when coupled with the inherent variability from paintball to paintball?

[Warwitch]

No, just another hair-brained scheme. :tard:

[athomas]

The only reason stainless inserts were made, was because they are stronger that aluminum. The aluminum ones were subject to damage more easily.

It was originally thought that changing weather conditions altered the inside bore of the aluminum barrels, so other materials were used that did not suffer near as much change. Brass was one of those other materials used. It was easy to machine and didn't expand and contract like aluminum. It was softer than anodized aluminum and could be scratched if you were not careful. The weight was significantly more (~3.5 times) than aluminum. A move towards stainless was made for the same reason. Stainless offered less tolerance issues due to temperature fluctuations than aluminum, and withstood wear and tear much better than brass. The downside to stainless, was that it was hard to machine and heavy (~3 time more than alum), but not as heavy as brass.

[Pneumagger]

I suggest you buy a freak kit and have the bores professionally Tungsten Disulphide or Molybdenum Disulphide coated inside and out. Extremely low dry coating lubricant, some of the best. Far superior to teflon or ceramic coatings. Ever felt a T-Fal or Teflon cooking pan? This stuff kicks the poo out of that.

The bore changes will be less than .001" if the process is done well.

For the record people... anodized aluminum is a ceramic coating. (Aluminum Oxide is a ceramic iirc).
Just more advertisement hype that was thrown at you.

[punkncat]

All this talk of which barrel shoots better and ect. is kind of funny to me. Don't get me wrong. I recognize that quality level of a barrels hone can certainly show in the barrels accuracy. But there comes a certain point that we have to stop and look at what we are actually shooting. It would seem that on this forum its common knowledge that paintballs are neither round nor consistantly sized. You could have a barrel precision honed to the "inth" degree and the very next paintball to come out of the hopper is going to be different and throw everything off.

I suggest finding a bore size that most of the balls fit well down and go with it. Aluminum, brass, stainless, whatever....its still going to shoot like a paintball.

[snoopay700]

All this talk of which barrel shoots better and ect. is kind of funny to me. Don't get me wrong. I recognize that quality level of a barrels hone can certainly show in the barrels accuracy. But there comes a certain point that we have to stop and look at what we are actually shooting. It would seem that on this forum its common knowledge that paintballs are neither round nor consistantly sized. You could have a barrel precision honed to the "inth" degree and the very next paintball to come out of the hopper is going to be different and throw everything off.

I suggest finding a bore size that most of the balls fit well down and go with it. Aluminum, brass, stainless, whatever....its still going to shoot like a paintball.
That's why i stick with my crown point barrel, it'll fit all paint and it's just as accurate with any paint that i've used, which is very.

As for the tungsten disulphide coating, don't you think that's a little extreme pnuemagger?

[Pneumagger]

That's why i stick with my crown point barrel, it'll fit all paint and it's just as accurate with any paint that i've used, which is very.

As for the tungsten disulphide coating, don't you think that's a little extreme pnuemagger?

Extreme? I think it's extreme that you feel WS2 coating is NOT needed. :D
I once got a quote to have my entire mag assembly WS2 coated internally, then externally Titanium Nitride coated... the quote made me sad. :(
To say the least, I ceased further investigation of the matter.

Since when are engineers supposed to be practical? I hate when my boss says gold plating an blimp is not feasible to achieve specific reflectivity bandwidths. Cost effectiveness??? Bah-humbug.

The Truth Is Out There...

[snoopay700]

Extreme? I think it's extreme that you feel WS2 coating is NOT needed. :D
I once got a quote to have my entire mag assembly WS2 coated internally, then externally Titanium Nitride coated... the quote made me sad. :(
To say the least, I ceased further investigation of the matter.

Since when are engineers supposed to be practical? I hate when my boss says gold plating an blimp is not feasible to achieve specific reflectivity bandwidths. Cost effectiveness??? Bah-humbug.

The Truth Is Out There...
I don't know what it is about you, that i actually get a lot of the stuff you're talking about, or just how you deliver it, but you always crack me up.

I can agree with you on the not being practical thing (lord knows i've had a bunch of ideas that would work, but they weren't practical) but unfortunately we live in the real world, and money runs everything :( (well as far as engineering goes).

[JAM]

as an experiment, it's cool- go for it.

BUT, i have a hard time thinking that given a smoothly honed barrel with good paint/bore match- that the material will make any difference at all.

Air/Pressure consistency is by far the largest factor in accuracy- more so than any barrel issues.

We are shooting imperfectly-shaped liquid-filled gelatin balls a maximum of 150 feet or so. Paintball "accuracy" is borderline at best.

[tebo]

I have a brass barrel on my kingman hammer, its shoots really well for being almost 15 years old

[Freebird]

now, i didnt take the time to read this whole thread( i know i should have ) but here is my .02

I work in a machine shop where we build high RPM drag racing and oval track motors. off the top of my head i know of 2 things that have brass. These are the valve guides, for a smoother valve stroke. And another thing on these motors is the brass inserts on the floated connecting rods. This is another example of being a smoother flow. Now i know thats kind of like apples to wrenches as this conversation goes. But there has got to be somthing to this brass theme that has reasoning. i think its worth a try.

and P.S. ive done the metal polish/battle swab/power drill thing on bare interior barrels it works like a charm. Restored the finish of my tippmann pro/lite barrel in a minute.