The Last of the Space Mags appears to be gone now too

[Maghog]

:cry:
Some of you know that I spent a great deal of time searching for, finding and even purchasing one of the legendary Space Mags. With the help of a few AOer's I managed to put it in a spot in the states where I thought it would be safe, the paintball shop called Rogue Paintball in Standish, Me. where three of my other guns were located for years.
To keep it short, the owner fell in love with a girl, whom he hoped to marry and allowed to enter into a business partnership with him. Once she got her hands on the accounting, it was over. Little more than a year later, his shop is shut down, he owes half of the distributors a ton of money, and in the final stage, the IRS stepped in and seized his entire inventory, including the Space Mag. Luckily one of my old teammates was wise enough to pick up my three guns before things got out of hand, but he forgot the Spacemag.
If any of you legal experts have any ideas how I can get that gun back, I'm listening. I was very proud to have it in my collection and was hoping to put it in action someday.
I was so happy to have found a piece of history, and now I've gone and lost it again. If we had a smily punishing himself with a whip, I'd insert it here.
Later
Dan@Triggernomics

[Chronobreak]

very sorry to hear that, hope you get it back

[Ruler_Mark]

If you owned it and can provide proof of purchase, then you should contact who siezed it then you can go from there

[cougar20th]

Is there anyway you can explain to the IRS that he did not own it. Thus they should have had no right seiz it. I dont know what the steps would be but noterized letters from him and you may help?

[magmonkey]

I know rouge paintball very well, my old man lives right down 114 in east sebago,
I spent a few days in there drooling over your tlc micromag
it sucks that they went under, nice enough guys.
I hope you get your gun back

[teufelhunden]

This is why you find a CPA to do your accounting and taxes.

Seriously. Accountants are good at this stuff, you probably aren't :)


Anyway, it seems like there's a bunch of details missing or confusion of terms because this doesn't add up [the IRS part, everything else makes sense]

[Will Wood]

Rogue is down? Man.. I didn't think something like that would happen to Kirt. He was too nice I guess. Glad to hear they got your other guns though. That would have been a shame. Man I've been out of the paintball scene in Maine for a while, crazy, hadn't heard about all this. Had fun times at Rogue.

I hope you can get it back. Hope everything goes well for Kirt too.

What else was there? I know there was the cocker painted by Heather, the 'cocker, but never knew about a 3rd.

[punkncat]

This stinks. Good luck, but you can pretty much kiss that thing goodbye. It will go to a gov. auction somewhere and the best you can hope for is that whoever gets it will post up some info about it.

[custar]

Do you have a bill of sale or anything else that would confirm you bought it, when you bought it, and how much you paid for it? If so, you have a shot at obtaining it back. The IRS, like any other creditor, cannot seize and keep property owned by a third party but only held (i.e., for display purposes) by a debtor. Also, it would be helpful to know if the shop had a price sticker on it. If it was denoted as purely for display and not for resale, that would help bolster your position. By chance, do you have a photograph of the inside of the store and specifically the area where your Space Mag was being displayed?

custar

[rabidchihauhau]

You can petition the IRS for the return of your private property. I would get an affadavit from the store owner that states that your property was on display, never for sale, etc., etc.

I don't believe you are going to have to jump through hoops on this.

[wolf13]

Oh man, I am glad you got your other guns out in time. Good luck with getting the spacemag back.

[Looper]

That explains the out of business messages on the web site. I too live not far form his Standish field / Biddeford store. He had stated on the web site that he was unable to get anything out of the store then a few weeks later the message changed and it looked like he was able to get stuff and he was selling off a bunch of field equipment. Now it has completely changed again...

http://www.roguepaintball.com/

The below quotes are copied text from his web page sent in emails to me by a fellow paintballer. The date are when I received the emails. Not sure if this will help anyone I have removed the phone number just because. If anyone needs it PM me and I will sent it to you. But I'm sure it would not be hard to find with Google.


Welcome back!!

Recent events has caused the store to be closed for about 1 month. Now with the ability to reopen the store many things are going to change: see below
The store is located at *** Main St. Suite *** Biddeford, Maine 04005 (look for the black and gold sign - Rogue Paintball)

Nov 7th The Store wil begin to be open. Please be aware of many changes in hours, contact information, and what's going on in general.

Due to events that have transpired over the last few months, I will be working toward closing the store, and opening a paintball field in the spring / summer - woodsball. This field will be set up and run in the old school fashion of Rogue Paintball, but will most likely carry a new name.

With the store moving to close, all items are at crazy sale prices, and most of the other non field essential items are for sale as well:
display counters, racks, shelves, the air ball field, telephone poles, netting, POS systems, scenario props, etc.

The Rogue ole school core staff and I will continue to make orders for customers, and facilitate repairs via a online ordering and contact area that will be set up.


The close of the store is my decision in light of business partner troubles and other serious issues that have caused a rift between Rogue and its staff & customers and vendors.

Action has been set moving to put a halt to the problem and give us some breathing room to repair these relationships.

NOTE to PLAYERS:
We are working on a private location to supplement play for the winter. The field will resemble a version of the Badlands from Rogue limington and will have full HPA and CO2 capabilities. It is not a definite but I will keep you updated if that works out.
Buying products:
Contact #'s will be made available soon! and there is always Email.

NOTE to VENDORS:
Admist ownership changes to and from, there has been a very rocky road of problems. These problems have only recently come to a head where they can be addressed, and now that is happening on a large scale.

Reguardless of issues internal of Rogue, I pay all debts owed. If you have not heard from your contact in some time please be advised that KIRT is your only contact now, please contact him for updates as this proceeds.


The store # is currently down but is 207-***-****. look for it to return soon.

I am currently working on changing the website's contact information. When this has been fixed (next day or 2) the link to the Rogue site will become active again.

If you have any questions you can email Kirt at News@RoguePB.com - please label the subject "whats up".



Welcome back!!

Rogue will be open and open noon to 4 Friday the 23rd.

More Upper end items will be appearing on Ebay shortly
Everything in the store must go!
We are offering "Wicked Good" deals on everything, you don't see it Ask us !! Paintball and Airsoft, bunkers, field rentals, tanks, masks, etc more more more.

Serveral glass display cabinets are left for sale, and if you dont see the product your looking for, Ask me, I may have it set aside ready to sell online.
General items remaining (much more than listed)

PMR , Black, Red, Olive and Olive
Epiffany white (1)
Several Tippmann 98 upgraded marker kits
US-5 (2)
More Markers avilable
Masks - Events - Grills - I3Pro - Proto - JT - ER (and replacement lenses)
Clothing - Tournament pants, jerseys, Cleats, Misc apparel
Marker upgrades and barrels up the WHAA ZOO
Action packs, NXE, Dye, ER, Redz, and more
Pods, LLP, ER, EVil
Fresh Paintballs (case of 2000 $30.00)
Autographed posters & banners
Glass display cabinets, Display racks, Fixtures
The big yellow HPA storage bottles (2 3600psi)
Air ball field + Extras less than 5 months of use - Complete Air ups 7 man +2 legos + 5 Older ultimate Air bunkers(Asking $3000.00)
currently in storage awaiting sale
Telephone poles 25 - 36 foot each $500.00 (get them before it snows)
Much much more

The store # is currently back up but msgs are not avilable 207-***-****

If you have any questions you can email Kirt at News@RoguePB.com - please label the subject "whats up".

[Maghog]

Unfortunately, I have no proof of purchase, and what's worse, NOBODY is able to get in touch with the store owner anymore. He appears to have gone into hiding for now. I've got a few of my buddies back home who are keeping their eyes peeled, so maybe I'll still get lucky somehow.
It just really bugs me when I think about this stupid woman being the cause for it all.
Dan

[Will Wood]

Man if my women took me for everything I would want to hide too. :cry:

Why'd this have to happen around the holidays too? :cuss:


Do you have any forum posts or emails you mentioned this to help as proof?

[Doc Nickel]

If you have some photos, that's at least partial proof-of-ownership. Shipping labels from when the guy sent it to you?

Anyway, interestingly enough, I recently found that one lost issue of PGI that I'd mentioned. It's the September '96, pages 70 and 71; a brief article on how Automags could be modifed (not very in-depth) entitled "Super Mags". Right smack-dab in the center was this photo:

http://www.docsmachine.com/images/spacemag.jpg

Still shows the same side as always, unfortunately, but it's at least an in-action shot.

Somebody might try to contact PGI and see if anyone has the original negative in a file somewhere.

Doc.

[AirAssault]

Sucks but my question is why would you keep your personal paintball items at a store?

[OneUp]

If you can't find proof of ownership you might want to contact the IRS and see where the Space Mag will be put up for auction. That way you can at least buy it back.

Speaking of which, how would he go about finding out where it will be put up for auction?

[Bolter]

Somebody might try to contact PGI and see if anyone has the original negative in a file somewhere.

Doc.

I will ask the editor, and get back to you.

[Doc Nickel]

That'd be great, if you could. Perhaps, hoping against hope, the photographer has more shots than just the one.

Doc.

[Bolter]

That'd be great, if you could. Perhaps, hoping against hope, the photographer has more shots than just the one.

Doc.

Good point! I will ask that aswell :)

[Maghog]

I never made a point of endorsing or supporting Rogue Paintball, simply because Kirt(the owner) was business minded and I am a little more liberal with my approach to things. Though we did not see eye to eye on many issues, Kirt and I had a fair and honest relationship where we helped each other out. For him to just slink into the shadows like this is not really like him. I understand that it's a hard time for him, and he's more than likely got a few people after him for various reasons. If I would get my Spacemag back from him all of a sudden, I could say Kirt has never done me wrong, since we have never let our differences, or anything else come between us. We went our separate ways and kept our relationship, however superficial it was, intact.
I'm really pissed at Marie, who is the girl who took him to the cleaners. Kirt was just stupid enough to fall for her charades, and he has lost his business because of it. My loss of the Spacemag is small compared to his, but I'm still fuming because it has gotten this far for me. Trying to explain anything like this to a government official is a waste of my time. I know full well how those robots work, and there is little to be done there.
The fate of the Spacemag lies with Kirt for now, so let's hope that there's still some kind of chance that he'll be able to recover it.
Dan

[Rudz]

Sucks but my question is why would you keep your personal paintball items at a store?



Dan is in germany, and the german police have a bad habit of not liking his "guns" so I guess he assumed it was safer in the states, and why not show it off at a store?

[OneUp]

I never made a point of endorsing or supporting Rogue Paintball, simply because Kirt(the owner) was business minded and I am a little more liberal with my approach to things. Though we did not see eye to eye on many issues, Kirt and I had a fair and honest relationship where we helped each other out. For him to just slink into the shadows like this is not really like him. I understand that it's a hard time for him, and he's more than likely got a few people after him for various reasons. If I would get my Spacemag back from him all of a sudden, I could say Kirt has never done me wrong, since we have never let our differences, or anything else come between us. We went our separate ways and kept our relationship, however superficial it was, intact.
I'm really pissed at Marie, who is the girl who took him to the cleaners. Kirt was just stupid enough to fall for her charades, and he has lost his business because of it. My loss of the Spacemag is small compared to his, but I'm still fuming because it has gotten this far for me. Trying to explain anything like this to a government official is a waste of my time. I know full well how those robots work, and there is little to be done there.
The fate of the Spacemag lies with Kirt for now, so let's hope that there's still some kind of chance that he'll be able to recover it.
Dan

i wouldn't blame him hiding, there are things more important than the space mag.

and how did she ever manage to do this? (what exactly did she do?)

[magmonkey]

I am going up to maine for a while in the next couple weeks, I will dig around with some of the ballers I know up there ans see if I can find anything out for you if you would like

[Will Wood]

Man reading this again makes me really mad. I didn't know Kirt to well, but we knew each other. He was always such a nice guy willing to go out of his way to help. Met him at Cosmic/Galaxy Bowling the night before a tourney at his place, and he offered me 50% off paint if I beat him. Now he's a wicked good bowler so he smoked me, but still gave me 50% off. My gun broke down during said tournament and lent me one of his guns. The list goes on of the things this guy did to help a fellow paintballer out. Too bad this isn't a guy that did this because then all the Maine Paintballers could kick his ***.


Even though this was a relationship type thing, and she probably had her name on all the accounts or whatnot, is it possible any laws where broken here? Or can she sit around and brag about all this? There has to be a way to get something back from her.
---
unrelated.. but Dan's post reminded me of him offering to make a triggernomics for someone as a prize, and me having no idea what that was being the noob I was then, was thinking "Man that would sound cool on my M98 Custom" .. Hahaha I'm glad I lost, I would have been angry I wasted it on my 98.

[Maghog]

magmonkey-no need to look, I've got people looking around. Thanks though.

Though Kirt could rub some people the wrong way, there is no doubt that he was a fair business man and ran the best place for a newbie to be getting into the game. He tried very hard to make people happy, and his business was going well despite many setbacks over the years.
I am sure that this is not what he wanted, and I honestly don't know the details. Many around him could see the writing on the wall, but Kirt didn't until it was too late.
What happens now and who bears responsibility is for the legal system to sort out. I have witnessed one other occasion where the IRS stepped in, and I saw a family lose its home and all of its belongings, so I'm not holding out much hope except that Kirt might have stashed the gun somewhere else at the last minute. That would be very unlike him though.
Since I can't get in touch with him anymore, I can't find out what fate this gun has suffered.
Dan

[AirAssault]

Dan is in germany, and the german police have a bad habit of not liking his "guns" so I guess he assumed it was safer in the states, and why not show it off at a store?

Ahhh I see. I know Germany and paintball very well, lived there for 3 years and SAW a few of my friends PB markers taken by the Polizei. Gotta have the F stamp man. I would pick up items for my friends, markers and such. An 02 an angel speed that we could get here in the states for $750 would run ya about 1k in Germany.

[druid]

another example of how women are just evil....

[Looper]

Ahhh I see. I know Germany and paintball very well, lived there for 3 years and SAW a few of my friends PB markers taken by the Polizei. Gotta have the F stamp man. I would pick up items for my friends, markers and such. An 02 an angel speed that we could get here in the states for $750 would run ya about 1k in Germany.
F Stamp?¿ I was not aware of this until now, of course I had no reason to know. That is nasty...
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1245377

[91Foxtrot]

The mother of a friend of mine is an IRS agent, so I gave them a call to ask about your situation. Keep in mind that Mom is a reasonable agent.

Since you can't get in touch with Kirt, try calling the local IRS branch and find out who is the agent in charge of this case. Write the agent a letter or call them to explain your situation. Mom said that if you say the marker is yours, and Kirt says it is yours (I bet you that the IRS can get in touch with him. :ninja: ), then there is a good chance that you will get it back. This is even if you don't have anything in writing proving that it.

Obviously, paperwork showing ownership will help a great deal. She also said that your chances might be better if Kirt also took in markers for repair, since logic would dictate that he might have gear that wasn't his.

That was the gist of what she said. If you want me to ask any other questions, I will be happy to call Mom and ask.

[Looper]

Hope this helps, and I'm sure you have already found this, but the closest IRS office to the whole ordeal is the South Portland Office. I work about 5min away from there.

South Portland
220 Maine Mall Rd.
So. Portland, ME 04106

Monday-Friday - 8:30 a.m.-4:30 p.m.
(207) 879-4683

http://www.irs.gov/localcontacts/article/0,,id=98283,00.html

:(

[Maghog]

Thank you Looper, I will actually give that a try. With Foxtrot's tips I might be able to make something happen from over here. I'll give it a try in the New Year.
Dan