Mag vs. Shocker

[Wavesport001]

If price was no option would you play with a Mag or Shocker? Please explain why! I've got my options narrowed to these two markers, so any input would be appreciated!

[jshelto3]

With an electropneumatic frame and the COMPLETE reliability of an automag, how could there be any other choice. :headbang:

Every shocker I have been around has been fussy. They are good shooters when there working though.

[Stayhuge]

Hello,

Just a few things. You are asking this question on an Automag website, so opinions will be biased. Personally, I have owned 2 shockers and 2 mags, and many other guns, but these are the two that you are asking about. I owned a pre 2000 Shoebox shocker, with select fire modes. This one I had absolutely no problems with. I even didn't use it for 2 years, picked it back up and it was working great. Then I sold it, bought and sold a bunch of other guns, and ended up with an 03 SFT Shocker. It was great for a while. I slowly added to it, little by little. New bolt, trigger, board, feedneck. Then my solenoind blew out. I sent it to Smart Parts. $25 and a week later I had it back, but it wasn't the same. I had velocity issues. I called SP and they walked me through a few things. Still had some issues with the bolt sticking, and misfiring. I sold it back in May and bought a ULE Custom, brand new from AGD. After a Vert frame, barrel, some new hoses, and feedneck, I have never been more happy with a marker. When I had the Shocker, I played a lot of indoor, but lately my buddies and I have been playing in the woods more often. I feel like the ULE is a great woodsball gun, and can definately hold its own indoors, where as the Shocker is more fussy. It's really a matter of preference though. With the Shocker, you will sling more paint, which costs more. This is pretty much a fact. I definately used twice as much paint as I do now. Also, if you get the Shocker, make sure you have a good, reliable backup marker. I remember, when I bought the Shoebox one, I had brought it into the store to get some upgrade, I can't remember off the top of my head. The salesman said to me: "Shockers are like Jaguars, you need two! One for the field, and one for the shop!" I didn't think it was that funny then, but looking back, it could be true. Just my 2 cents. Money wise, for the price of the NXT, you could buy the ULE Custom, and do a bunch of upgrades, so it should be cheaper, and much more reliable. Good luck with your decision.

[68magOwner]

protege.




but, of the two you listed, shocker. Because, while, I love the feel of automags, your just going to have a harder time playing competative tournament ball with one than you would shocker.

[mpsd]

Had a Shocker with Predator board, eyes and Freak barrel. Great shooter.

But nothing like a Mag... Mags RULES!!! :shooting:

[B-Pow]

Do you know where you are?

Not only because the people here love mags, but the majority would rather sit out the day then play with a gun made by the devil.

It also comes down to a few other things:

Do you want to tinker for fun (mag) or so that it will function (shocker)
Do you want fire modes (shocker) or semi ony (mag)
Do you want to have the agg gun that the kiddies have (shocker) or something that is uncommon (mag)

New shockers can be had cheap now, but ask yourself how long will each gun last and what is your style of play. Also how much abuse is your gun going to take...and do you think it's going to survive the abuse.

[dixieoutfitter94]

I had a shocker and it was nice for the week I had it. Everybody says they break alot. Shockers loose value quickly and can be found cheap but mags dont loose value and you can build one from just parts (you can do that with any else but you know what I mean). Speedball with an rtmag isnt gonna go over so well. The refs wont like you shooting 20bps. You can take a shocker to pretty much any pro shop but not mags. Thats about the only complant I have about mags. If money wasnt an object then I would buy the nastiest xmag you ever seen over a fully upped shocker even if they were the same price.

[punkncat]

Shockers, like any spool valve marker have a tendency to be a bit finicky. Keep a couple of rebuild kits on hand and use nothing but shocker lube (dow) as many other brands of grease will give you cole weather issues.
I suggest as well that you get a board that has the ABS (first shot dwell) feature as shockers are famous for having a low first shot after sitting for a minute.
I have owned two of them, and together they didn't make it a month. Just too maintainance oriented. Not that I couldn't work on them, I just don't like having to fiddle with a marker every time I use it.

The mag on the other hand is bullet proof and will last you forever. As has been stated they hold a really good value. If you know what you are doing and have a talk with the promotor of your local tourney series its not uncommon to be able to set it up for use in a series. I know that Larry Motes (CFOA) is a huge mag fan as well as Josh Silverman. I used an adjustable air source and had my mag approved for use as I was staying under 15 with the RT effect. In essence he told me if and refs had a problem tell them to look for the batteries and beyond that to talk to him. Very cool!!!

If you are only going to play rec ball, stick with the mag. You will appreciate it more in the long run. As far as going more modern I personally think there are better choices out there that a Shocker. Plus side is that there are lots of parts and lots of people familiar with fixing them....kinda makes you think though....

Final thought is that if you buy a Shocker you are supporting an evil empire.

[Ruler_Mark]

i would take a classic valve'd mag that has had dirt run through it that i have to hand feed and with CO2 as an air source be4 i shoot a shocker.

[Chronobreak]

If price was no option would you play with a Mag or Shocker? Please explain why! I've got my options narrowed to these two markers, so any input would be appreciated!

Tom kaye himself will post here and say he has 100% faith in his markers and their reliability and performance.

i doubt youl get that kind of responce from any of the gardners on an SP forum

[RavishingEddie]

Or you could do what I am doing and build a gun with the reliability and precision accuracy of the mag with the speed and smooth trigger of the shocker. :ninja:

Shoot I think I might of let the cat out on this one :ninja: Nevermind what I just said. ;)

[Ruler_Mark]

Or you could do what I am doing and build a gun with the reliability and precision accuracy of the mag with the speed and smooth trigger of the shocker. :ninja:

Shoot I think I might of let the cat out on this one :ninja: Nevermind what I just said. ;)

need a noid? i got a:http://www.airsoldier.com:8080/cgi-bin/mivavm?Merchant2/merchant.mvc+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOS&Product_Code=SMC-S070C-SDG-32&Category_Code=SOLENOIDS

i need to sell pm me.


EP mag with a shocker frame i presume?

[xxkylexx]

You picked the wrong forum to be asking this question....

[RavishingEddie]

need a noid? i got a:http://www.airsoldier.com:8080/cgi-bin/mivavm?Merchant2/merchant.mvc+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AOS&Product_Code=SMC-S070C-SDG-32&Category_Code=SOLENOIDS

i need to sell pm me.


EP mag with a shocker frame i presume?

You were right about the shocker frame, but not using any pneumatics ;) Kruger and Luke are the only ones that know of my evil plans Muahahaha :mad:

[MoeMag]

Shockers=fail.

[Ruler_Mark]

You were right about the shocker frame, but not using any pneumatics ;) Kruger and Luke are the only ones that know of my evil plans Muahahaha :mad:

i see you need a magnetic solenoid then about the size spyders use and imitating a devil mag pretty nice :ninja:

[anomoly40]

There is a reason shockers have low resale.

[Ruler_Mark]

There is a reason shockers have NO resale.


Fixed

[maddboy32]

thats a no-brainer.......mag :shooting:

[RavishingEddie]

i see you need a magnetic solenoid then about the size spyders use and imitating a devil mag pretty nice :ninja:

If everything goes as planned it will be better than a Dmag. ;)

[kruger]

If everything goes as planned it will be better than a Dmag. ;)


And, there is not another one like it, that I have seen.


Shocker vs Mag.
This is really a bad question. The question should have been "If I were to buy only one marker, which one would be the best, long term choice?"

Answer is Mag. It can shoot as fast as you want it to, and is built like a tank.

If you want to try an be "agg", go with the shocker.

[68magOwner]

For those of you talking about marker reliability, I really wouldnt count the shocker out by any means. My shocker has probably had more cases of paint through it than an any posters mag in this thread. And it has never gone down on me once. The thing has taken some VERY heavy abuse and just dosent skip a beat. Shockers are really light weight, shoot really nice, are reliable, the only downside is the efficiency, but, the mag isnt any better, so, that point is moot. Plus, the shocker will probably cost you less money (you can fine one with HE bolt kit, a nice board, ect, easily for under $300). Its your decision though.

[craltal]

if you want to get an electronic gun, go with a used viking or a cyborg

[68magOwner]

if you want to get an electronic gun, go with a used viking or a cyborg
why would you reccomend those over the shocker? Have you owned/used all three extensivley? If so, whats the reasoning for your decision?

[Toll]

I've owned 2 shockers and a viking...The viking was far and away my favorite.

For some reason I seem to have got the tempermental "lets work at home, but no where else" shockers....I have never had a single issue with my viking. Thats what really made me smile, the idea that when I go to play, I can play.

[Wavesport001]

Thanks for all the input! Superficially the Shocker looks alot like the Mag, but it seems that the similarities are only on the surface.

[68magOwner]

I have owned
4 vikings
1 excal
5 shockers
4 intimidators
3 minis
3 automags
2 egos
4 autocockers
3 angles
4 matricies
1 legend
1 ion
1 protege
and plenty other pump/mech markers, as well as some other lower end E markers (defiant 2, bko, ect)

Now, I can give you ups/downs of each of these markers, as well as a pretty fair representation as to what you should expect performance/matinance wise with each of the listed markers. It is MY opinion that, there really are not bad markers on the market. I cant remember the last day of paintball I couldnt play because a marker of mine went down. If you know what your doing, you can have any marker perform reliably for you. Now, some markers are more idiot proof than others, but, I wouldnt say that any markers are prone to break on their own without some sort of user error or neglect.

Wavesport, it would be easier to suggest a marker for you if you listed a price range, and the qualities you were looking for in a marker.

[craltal]

why would you reccomend those over the shocker? Have you owned/used all three extensivley? If so, whats the reasoning for your decision?

Ease of use and efficiency. Also, both are not as maintenance heavy as a Shocker is. (Not to mention were/are built to tighter tolerances.

I have not heard as many bad AKA stories as I have bad SP stories. Now it just might have to do with sales volume...

:D

[Wavesport001]

Well, I play woods/scenario exclusively. I'd like something reliable and lightweight that will shoot relatively fast. Autococker threading is a big plus.

[Lohman446]

I loved my Shockers when they worked. I kept 3 or 4 of them around when I was playing competetively to make sure I would always have one that worked. Really did love those markers though.

SP = great product potential + horrible out of the box reliability. (once you get them up and running though they normally hold up ok)

[custar]

Well, I play woods/scenario exclusively. I'd like something reliable and lightweight that will shoot relatively fast.


Ditto. That's why I primarily accumulate Mags and AKA's. Well, Vikings and Excals without milling aren't exactly lightweight but their reliability, speed, and consistency make up for that.

custar

[craltal]

Ditto. That's why I primarily accumulate Mags and AKA's. Well, Vikings and Excals without milling aren't exactly lightweight but their reliability, speed, and consistency make up for that.

custar


add in the cocker threading...

:argh:

[68magOwner]

Well, I play woods/scenario exclusively. I'd like something reliable and lightweight that will shoot relatively fast. Autococker threading is a big plus.

are you looking to go mechanical or electro? (I wouldnt concider either to be more reliable than the other)

If your looking to go mech, a mag is probably the way to go, or at least what I would reccomend.

If your going electro, I would suggest you pick up an ego, or possibly a protege, both are pretty much bullet proof and require very little/simple matinance, both are very light (lighter than the shocker) An 05 ego can be had for ~$300, and are great markers, the protege will run you ~$500. AKA markers are reliable markers, but, I dont know if I would want to carry one for hours on end at a scanario. Not that it would REALLY made a difference, but, its always nicer to have a light marker on long days.

[Thotograph]

If you want a spool type marker then perhaps look into the original quest (by first endeavor paintball) over a shocker. Quests are unique, shoot good, and can be had cheap new or used. Plus, unlike shockers, they use a lpr which helps make them smooth and efficient.

Still... mags > everything else. AKA's are nice too. Another gun of mine that I really enjoy is my Alien. Light, fast, and comfy. Whatever you get, be sure you learn how to maintain it. As long as it suits your style of play and you are happy thats all that matters... okay well that and please don't buy SP. They are the devil :D

[zeroaz]

More customizable, and better durability. I have a bad *** pump mag awaiting anno, and I am working towards a pneumag conversion to. Stay tuned once I get it annoed, it will be in the MOTM contest. :rofl:

[68magOwner]

If you want a spool type marker then perhaps look into the original quest (by first endeavor paintball) over a shocker. Quests are unique, shoot good, and can be had cheap new or used. Plus, unlike shockers, they use a lpr which helps make them smooth and efficient.
Im not sure if you have actually ever owned a quest, or if your just taking this from somewhere else, I have owned 3 quests, and none of them were smoother than any of my shockers. And had about the same efficiency.

[anomoly40]

I'm not trying to disagree with anyone who's posted so far so this isn't a "NU-HUH!" post. These are just based on my obsevations as a Airsmith for the largest field in Arkansas. I'm just going to focus on the two markers that were asked about for a paragraph or two.

As the Airsmith and Gun tech I have worked on both guns, taken them apart and fixed them for customers. MOST problems with markers are the USERS fault. We have a Autococker who has it's LPR turned up all the way because the customer said "it made it shoot faster". Now he wonders why he blows hoses and the gun will stick when the trigger is pulled and you have to push it back to get the gun to recock. Having said that I will tell you what issues we've had with both markers in the past.

Shockers HAVE to be lubed after every day of play. Taken apart and lubed liberally with DOW lube. When you take guns apart that have a bunch of orings like the shocker does, you tend to wear out the orings faster. Some of the orings are hard to get to unless you have a pick. They are the clear ones on the inside of a little lip machined on the "can". I have stabbed my fingers countless of times getting those out. They also have a 2 piece board which can be the cause of cursing.

Automags can be oiled by dropping a few drops of oil into the valve. To take the valve assembly out you loosen the rear frame screw and slide it out. There are orings in the mag, but they are easier to get to. Sometimes the bolt spring will lose its springing action, just a replacement is needed. They sometimes leak down the barrel, an oring in the power tube fixes that. Really simple maitenence.


Usually when someone brings a mag to the field I never see it. I might catch the guy filling up air and have a conversation but I have only had to work on 3(one was to install lvl 10). There are a few guys on our team that have shockers as backups to their matrix's, I've had to work on all 4 several times..

All in all it comes down to your opnion and playing style. For me, I've got a mag in the bag. (that phrase is now copywritten)

[p8ntbal4me]

I own 2 NXT Shockers and 3 SFT Shockers.

I got,... working right now,.. 8 Mags of various types.

I shoot em both regularly, but its ALWAYS the Mag that goes to the chrono first.

You can shoot it manual, you can use an e-mag in e-mode, straight manual on the e-mag, a combo of both,... you can interchange the parts with (pretty much) every model ever made.

You cant really do that with any other gun out there.

I like my shockers they work awesome,.. but I lend those out for other people to use.

I love my mags,....

~ P8nt

[68magOwner]

Shockers HAVE to be lubed after every day of play.
I don't have arguments with most of what you said, other than this. I have actually put literally 20 cases of paint through my shocker without re lubing it once in the process. Never had shootdown, didnt loose consistency, performed the same the 19th case as it did the first. I wouldnt reccomend that a player do this with their markers, but, just saying that it CAN be done. Typically, I probably lube my shocker ~ every five cases of paint. Has to be done more frequently now that its cool outside, but, in good weather, i dont have any problems doing so.


Anyway, by now, if the threadstarted hasnt noticed, ill point out, honestly, whatever marker you want to shoot, is your decision. Obviously, just reading this thread, you see that people vary greatly in their tastes of markers. Try and get out and borrow some markers, see what you like best, and make your decision based on that.

[redmagik]

Well, like most on this forum I am partial to the mag, got 5 of em. I've played tourney ball with my tac one with ult and xvalve. I can rock it almost as fast as the electros and with MUCH better realiability. As for the shocker, well, I have to admit it, i play on a SP sponsored scenario team so we shoot shockers, ions and sp8's mostly. I have an '05 SFT shocker, max flow reg and tank, and a virtue board. It defintely rocks. Holds it own against any other electro. Problems = 0. Easy of maintenance...well that goes to the mag of course. Accuracy = even...though i am partial to the mag. If someone handed a shocker and a mag and said choose one......the mag....just can't beat 'em...better than looking like everybody else on the fields anyway. Plus you never have to worry about the weather....rain ...snow...whatever the mag keeps on ticking!!

[Stayhuge]

Another option is to buy one of each. You can pick up a decent mag, w/o RT or X valve for ~100-150. And get a used shocker for ~300 depending on the upgrades. Then try them out and see which you like better. Personally, it's never a bad idea to have a cheap mag as a backup. I have a ULE cutsom as my primary, and it hasn't failed me yet. But, I went and bought another classic mag just in case something was to happen. You never know. So I guess what I am trying to say is that with either of the guns you are looking at, have a cheap mag as a backup. Not to mention, they run on CO2, in the event HPA is not available. Good luck with your decision. Also, I believe someone mentioned this above, but knowing your price range would definately help in our suggestions. Like if you said you had $1000 to spend, I'd say get an NXT Shocker, and a RT Pro. You might have to look a little, but it's possible. If you said $500, I would go with my first suggestion. Like I said before, I have owned A shoebox shocker, SFT Shocker, a ULE Custom, and a Classic Mag, along with a bunch of other guns, electros and mechs. Right now I am on a mag kick, and love them. Sorry if this seems like a rant. Just trying to type this up while on my lunch break.

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

What type of paintball do you want to play? Mostly airball with high rofs and small fields? Huge forests with 500 people playing scenario?

Do you want to play local tourney scene? Play an occasional national event?

If I was you I would get the Shocker. Is it has reliable as the Mag, in the long run probably not. I doubt I could leave a shocker laying around for a year and pick it up and it work perfectly. Of course all I would probably have to do is regrease it and it would be fine.

But with the shocker orings, and technical help can be found at almost any field. Its a common marker that most shops carry parts for. Even with the mags vaulted reliability if something goes wrong and you have to order parts that is a day the mag will be down. If the shocker goes down assuming its not the noid you can probably get about any other item at the field.

The shocker will do you well in both high end tourney and scenario play. Works reasonably well, and is all around an average common marker.

But shoot both, see which one you like best.