how is AGD doing

[DanMan]

How is Air Gun Designs doing these days? I think they really need to come out with somthing new to attract attention to all of the other great stuff they make.

[luke]

Didn't you hear, AGD went out of business... :rolleyes:

[Big'n slo]

Didn't you hear, AGD went out of business... :rolleyes:


OH NOES!!!11

[Ruler_Mark]

Didn't you hear, AGD went out of the paintball gun business... and now in the drug running business :rolleyes:

Fixxed, explains for the sharp increase of overdose's

[Whee McGee]

Didn't you hear, AGD went out of business... :rolleyes:
I heard Tom Kaye bet AGD against the Gardner brothers in a back-alley cock-fight.
The Gardner's rooster cheated, and now AGD is being outsourced to Taiwan! :eek:

[Chaos_Theory!]

AGD is slowly bleeding out. They may not be dead yet but its gonna happen. Honestly, id pretty much consider them dead now. They havnt done anything in forever.

[Steelrat]

AGD is slowly bleeding out. They may not be dead yet but its gonna happen. Honestly, id pretty much consider them dead now. They havnt done anything in forever.

Thanks for making the only non-sarcastic post.

AGD is certainly dead if all we can do is make fun of a person asking an honest question.

[Chaos_Theory!]

Not a problem steelrat. He wanted an answer and i gave him a straight forward one with my honest opinion. Yes, AGD is still in business but they dont really do anything at all. Pretty much everything people buy for mags is used or made by people other than AGD. Even if AGD closed its doors for good, present and future mag owners wouldnt be effected much if at all.

[WalkingTarget]

AGD sells valves for some FN less than lethal weapon system,

honestly? if AGD could make a less expensive aluminum mag, they'd be able to capture a great deal of the entry level market....

[ProblemKinder]

this is usually about the time someone suggests using the "search" function, which would reveal close to about 259,898,429,529 threads with the exact same title.

Hidden inside these threads you will see several right wing liberal AGD die hard fans tell you how AGD will live forever with the divine guidance of God himself and how they have simply shifted their focus to the niche market of woodsball, which we all know is a lame excuse for "haven't done anything for awhile now".

inevitably, the thread will end with somebody declaring that as long as somebody keeps making O-rings and gun oil their mags will be fine. and don't forget about all the people out there continuing to keep AGD markers alive with their overpriced yet no more functional than their stock counterparts, aftermaket accessories.

oh and by the way, SP is the devil.















long live AGD!!! :headbang: :headbang:

[the music man]

I said it once, and I'll say it again: If AGD just started advertising more, they'd attract a lot more attention. Of course, advertising costs a ton of money, but if done even somewhat right, the benefits far outweigh the costs.

[RogueFactor]

AGD is slowly bleeding out. They may not be dead yet but its gonna happen. Honestly, id pretty much consider them dead now. They havnt done anything in forever.
Frankly, I havent seen many companies do anything in forever. A newly reboxed Ion isnt my idea of having done something. Or even the 'new' repackaged Tippman 98 'Platinum'. All Im saying is, AGD isnt the only one that hasnt done anything in forever.

Personally, I wish more companies focused on making things better than coming out with a repackaged 'something new'. 300 fps as fast as I can pull the trigger....whats so new in this sport?


Yes, AGD is still in business but they dont really do anything at all. Pretty much everything people buy for mags is used or made by people other than AGD. Even if AGD closed its doors for good, present and future mag owners wouldnt be effected much if at all.
The internet is a poor gauge of what a company does. Balance sheets, profit, revenue, is a much better indicator.
Most of the parts most people use are made by other people than the company. There are few that dont upgrade with aftermarket parts. Those that dont, buy stock markers.And if AGD closed its doors, present and future mag owners wouldnt be affected much because the marker is built so well. I dont see how thats a bad thing.

[Don Carnage]

While the product itself is great, AGD needs to produce a new body.
I know people get in a tizzy that cosmetic changes do not make a 'new' gun. But if you pay attention to the popularity if the minimag, tac one, Deadl Wind and Xmagterror's bodies, it becomes pretty apparent that people will pay to have a different look.

Look at the tippmann A5 or X7. People love those things because of their cosmetic upgrades.

One change that had already been mentioned and is a very cheap 'new product,' is to sell Tac Ones with classic valves for much of the scenario market. Being a scenario player, I will tell you that automags are popular because of their simple design and extreme reliability.

Also, AGD should have some appearance at Oklahoma D-Day or any of the larger scenario events. As i said, there are a lot of mags in the scenario crowd.

AGD's shortcoming is not product, it's the 'out of sight, ou of mind' factor that makes people occasionally ask if they are still around.

As AGD's new product that will put them back in the fore-front of paintball players' minds, I suggest the ULE minimag. (just because I want one)

[jade_monkey07]

Just waiting on air assault to chime in

[going_home]

While the product itself is great, AGD needs to produce a new body.
I know people get in a tizzy that cosmetic changes do not make a 'new' gun. But if you pay attention to the popularity if the minimag, tac one, Deadl Wind and Xmagterror's bodies, it becomes pretty apparent that people will pay to have a different look.

Look at the tippmann A5 or X7. People love those things because of their cosmetic upgrades.

One change that had already been mentioned and is a very cheap 'new product,' is to sell Tac Ones with classic valves for much of the scenario market. Being a scenario player, I will tell you that automags are popular because of their simple design and extreme reliability.

Also, AGD should have some appearance at Oklahoma D-Day or any of the larger scenario events. As i said, there are a lot of mags in the scenario crowd.

AGD's shortcoming is not product, it's the 'out of sight, ou of mind' factor that makes people occasionally ask if they are still around.

As AGD's new product that will put them back in the fore-front of paintball players' minds, I suggest the ULE minimag. (just because I want one)


While its easy to sit here on an internet forum and type out what Airgun Designs should do,
we really dont know :

1) What their future plans are for new product, or whether it will be stocked by dealers only
(or whether they have new product on the market already thats not paintball market related)

2) Whether their current financial capability will allow dollars to be used for R&D, testing, and marketing new paintball related products

I think to some extent threads like these start to sound like the adults on Charlie Brown

whaa whaa, whaa whaa, whaa whaa whaa whaa whaa

But thats just my opinion. :D

[dixieoutfitter94]

I never heard of a mag until I used one and I bought it. I think if more people knew about mags then more people would have them. I played at a speedball field with a classic and one kid asked if it was home made. :eek: I wanted to slap him but he never heard of AGD. I am confident that if more people knew about AGD, then more people would own them. Think about it; mags are better then alot of high-end markers out there. Why would you buy a pm7 if you knew that an emag would be way better? :cheers:

[Don Carnage]

2) Whether their current financial capability will allow dollars to be used for R&D, testing, and marketing new paintball related products

What R&D testing would be needed to sell an intro-level Tac One with a Classic Valve?

The internal dimentions and specs for the bodies are known. I can assume that the majority of R&D costs in that department are already spent. Changing the exterior cosmetics of that existing sluggo design is what I'm suggesting.

[SkinnyHare]

I never heard of a mag until I used one and I bought it. I think if more people knew about mags then more people would have them. I played at a speedball field with a classic and one kid asked if it was home made. :eek: I wanted to slap him but he never heard of AGD. I am confident that if more people knew about AGD, then more people would own them. Think about it; mags are better then alot of high-end markers out there. Why would you buy a pm7 if you knew that an emag would be way better? :cheers:


i run into that all the time where i am. six to seven years ago, half the player base had a mag of one kind or another. now, nobody even knows what one is, all you see now are cheapo wal-mart guns and 98s and some A-5s. whenever i play, everyone asks what it is that im shooting. they've never even heard of Airgun Designs. they also can't seem to fathom the idea that one of my really nice ones, when brand new, would have fetched the price of about five of their markers.

owning kids with their mil-simmed A-5s and two foot barrels with my little old classic RT + 8" minimag barrel just feels good. god help them when i finally drag the E-mag out to the field.

i miss the good ol' days of AGD :cry:

[DanMan]

an integrated hopper and warp would be cool

[RogueFactor]

I really wonder if this same question is ever asked of the maker of the Phantom @ CCI? Or the maker of the Blazer at Palmer's? Both great markers.

Does anyone ask how they are doing? Or why they dont come out with a new body design every year? Or is this sort of thing limited to just AGD?

[RRfireblade]

People ask about Palmers all the time.

As for CCI , Mike is still selling way more guns than he can build and most people that ever called to place an order (direct from CCI) find that out the hard way. ;) He doesn't come up with many new things because cause he simple does not have the time but he would love to.

[Hgblues]

HEY WAIT A MINUTE!! Does this mean Tom won't be throwing me any sponsorship perc's for using my picture and testimony all these years on the AGD site to promote the Warpfeeds? :tard:

[pyrodragon]

While the product itself is great, AGD needs to produce a new body.
I know people get in a tizzy that cosmetic changes do not make a 'new' gun. But if you pay attention to the popularity if the minimag, tac one, Deadl Wind and Xmagterror's bodies, it becomes pretty apparent that people will pay to have a different look.

Look at the tippmann A5 or X7. People love those things because of their cosmetic upgrades.

One change that had already been mentioned and is a very cheap 'new product,' is to sell Tac Ones with classic valves for much of the scenario market. Being a scenario player, I will tell you that automags are popular because of their simple design and extreme reliability.

Also, AGD should have some appearance at Oklahoma D-Day or any of the larger scenario events. As i said, there are a lot of mags in the scenario crowd.

AGD's shortcoming is not product, it's the 'out of sight, ou of mind' factor that makes people occasionally ask if they are still around.

As AGD's new product that will put them back in the fore-front of paintball players' minds, I suggest the ULE minimag. (just because I want one)

i think it's up to the players to show the true power of mags. i love playing with my workhorse. RT Pro ULE Custom with a Z-Grip. i get all kinds of questions about mags and i represent the company to the best of my abilities. i will also just hand my gun over to any player and say have a run. but everywhere i go i get asked about my mag and so does my friend. we have had several different guns in our stables but we will never get rid of our mags. also Automags do show up at D-Day. i know Custar is a mag fan and also on the board. so it's just word of mouth. have too kill a lot of rumors too.

[BAZOOKA_Boy]

As for CCI , Mike is still selling way more guns than he can build and most people that ever called to place an order (direct from CCI) find that out the hard way. He doesn't come up with many new things because cause he simple does not have the time but he would love to.

well he has something new (E phantom), its very different, though it would be much too expensive, and not even competitive with todays markers...plus its a really ugly piece of equipment, its his semi auto "phantom" its not really a phantom though. Its a crazy rotobreach thing, but shoots a max of 9 or so BPS, which would be an issue with most modern players. he actually mentioned something about this last time I was in there dropping off parts, though as a smat guy told me once, keep it simple stupid!

Mike has no time at all, true; been there, he works constantly, and its a one man show...though he stays in business, which is strange to me that AGD cannot, considering how little the phantom is advertised, I remember at least seeing tac-one ads when I was looking for a new gun a while ago...I wish AGD could make a comeback, though I know its very unlikely, mags are just such incredible markers.

[Chronobreak]

mikes also done some really cool new annos, and few minor things like offering the guaged valved himself.

hes always working on stuff and as bazooka said hes got alot of stuff on the shelf

[DanMan]

Here are the three main components of paintball equiptment.
The gun
The hopper
The power source

The four main components of the gun are:
Valve system
Trigger frame
Body
Barrel

The power source is not going to change any time soon so my guess is that AGD should not try anything in that area.

The hopper is something that is ripe for improvement. The q loader is a revolutionary idea but has some problems and is generally used for woodsball. The halo types are good but top heavy and bulky. The warp is also somewhat bulky and needs another hopper to feed it.

The gun. Agd has the valve down, but some of the other components are in need of revision. AGD needs vert trigger frame, a pneufame and a electro frame that is not $400.
The ule body is sweet but they need something new like the karta. As for barrels there are plenty of good cocker barrels out there.

So, this is what I would do if I owned AGD:
1. First, I would revise the flaws in the warp so you don’t need an extra hopper. The reason for this is that it eliminates an extra battery powered component and makes the warp lighter. It would also help the style for the people who care about that.
2. Join up with the companys that have made stuff for the mag. RPG, Logic paintball, Tunaman, whoever makes the “karta” rail and body, ect. Then get them to contract some runs of the sweet things they make and list them on the AGD website, or license the design.
3. Make a new E-mag with eyes for under $700
4. Clean up the company website and store.
5. AGDvertise at special ops events.
6. Get back into tourneys.
7. Just throwing this out there, but make an electropueumatic valve the same size as the x-valve and a way to convert an intelliframe to work with it.

I know that I am just a bystander but 4 and 5 would be a good start followed by 1 and not cost much money.

[Maghog]

Did anyone ever stop to think that AGD might be right where it wants to be and not where we want it to be? They might be happy to have the thousand or so loyal customers that they do, always buying parts kits and other accessories and all the while not having to invest huge costs in R&D and manufacturing. I'd rather just see the Mag live on the way it is rather than see it die because of risky ventures.
Dan@Triggernomics

[warbeak2099]

The gun. Agd has the valve down

Eh, I disagree. The valve could use a more efficient redesign. It really does suck to not be able to shoot deeper than 800psi into a tank. You get so much less out of your fill.

[rawbutter]

So, this is what I would do if I owned AGD:
1. First, I would revise the flaws in the warp so you don’t need an extra hopper...
2. Join up with the companys that have made stuff for the mag. RPG, Logic paintball, Tunaman, whoever makes the “karta” rail and body, ect. Then get them to contract some runs of the sweet things they make and list them on the AGD website, or license the design.
3. Make a new E-mag with eyes for under $700
4. Clean up the company website and store.
5. AGDvertise at special ops events.
6. Get back into tourneys....


I like all your points, but I think #2 is the best. Can you imagine a mass-produced RPG vert-framed mag with a karta body and a G-Force pneumatic trigger (if G-Force ever gets around to shipping the darn things)? And then, could you imagine AGD actually advertising said marker? They would sell like hot-cakes! And if they were mass-produced, AGD could probably offer them for around $800... which is not unreasonable considering the high-end market nowadays.

I know all those guys with rare bodies would be a little miffed because... well.. they wouldn't have super rare bodies anymore. Nevertheless, it would definitely help AGD out.

[RavishingEddie]

I think we should keep the Emag platform and simply R&D power sources. Emag batteries should not have to be as big anymore and capacitors could always be used to help.

[DanMan]

I like all your points, but I think #2 is the best. Can you imagine a mass-produced RPG vert-framed mag with a karta body and a G-Force pneumatic trigger (if G-Force ever gets around to shipping the darn things)? And then, could you imagine AGD actually advertising said marker? They would sell like hot-cakes! And if they were mass-produced, AGD could probably offer them for around $800... which is not unreasonable considering the high-end market nowadays.

I know all those guys with rare bodies would be a little miffed because... well.. they wouldn't have super rare bodies anymore. Nevertheless, it would definitely help AGD out.

Exactly!! It would be like a mech angel for $300 less!

[Hook]

Did anyone ever stop to think that AGD might be right where it wants to be and not where we want it to be? They might be happy to have the thousand or so loyal customers that they do, always buying parts kits and other accessories and all the while not having to invest huge costs in R&D and manufacturing. I'd rather just see the Mag live on the way it is rather than see it die because of risky ventures.
Dan@Triggernomics

I think that Maghog hit the nail right on the head. My sentiments exactly.

[DanMan]

but there all these small companys already making sweet things for the mag. AGD would hardly have to do anything to get them to make some runs of some of that stuff and offer it on the website. It would help both parties involved.

[Spider-TW]

I think that Maghog hit the nail right on the head. My sentiments exactly.
But no advertising is un-American. No song and dance for years. Where's the 'platinum edition' mag or the 'featherlite' mag? Everybody else resells the same old stuff. With no ads or sponsorships (or girls) out there, how's a noob supposed to know better?

No song and dance...[sniff]. This is all we get...

:dance: :dance: :dance:

[Old School 626]

Something being overlooked. In order to be competitive in this market it is virtually required that you have at least one Electro marker in your line up. Enter smart parts and a C&D letter.

F SP

[Maghog]

But what you guys are talking about is tweaking a proven, tried and true design.
Do you guys remember when the mag-cocker war was "won" by WGP? What if AGD would have won? They'd be mass produced pieces of garbage like the cocker now is. Where did it get them? No where. No one really wants a cocker any more.
I think AGD is calmly and quietly maneuvering on the sidelines along with many other businesses. They avoided litigation with Smart Crap, and all the while improved on their design instead of trying to outstretch themselves.
No one is really complaining about the Level X mod, or the intelliframe, or the y-frame, the ULE bodies, RT Valve and so on. But few see that over the years the Mag has been a work in progress, and always being bettered. They might come out with more...they might not.

To be honest, I'd love to see AGD fly, bring out a new gun every year or two and blow the market away, but let's not try and push them to do something that they are not capable of. They have hands down the absolute best design for a gun in paintball. They also have poor advertising, poor sponsorship, and a lingering bad reputation from the Cocker vs. Mag wars. It all makes up for an obvious equation.

I believe the people at AGD recognized what they were capable of as well as where paintball was going. After all these years, we can be proud that AGD is still plowing away manufacturing parts for us and keeping us supplied with what we need. If we ask them to do too much, and they actually try to do it, then they have deviated from their path and enter unknown waters.

Creating a new product requires a lot of money, alone the warp feed/hopper mod someone proposed would be a cost in the tens of thousands. I work in the plastics industry now and I know that the forms to create those shells are not cheap at all.

It all seems so simple for us to say,"oh, I wish AGD would just do this, or this, and then they'd be on their way...." but are you also willing to put up the bucks to make it happen? I'm sure that AGD is not, as they are now in a market where most consumers are young and uninformed, and that by pleasing their relatively small but loyal followers they wind up only hurting themselves instead of appealing to the masses. AGD needs to keep afloat people, and they need our support. If we start giving up on AGD someday because we think they don't care about us, then they are lost, and so is the Mag.

If something is not broken, don't try to fix it.

[EdgePaintball.com]

If I was Airgun Designs.

Move to vert reg design.
Get rid of the on-off and reg assembly on the back of the gun.
Get rid of the return spring on the bolt.

Add 1 o-ring on the inside of the mag body right before the breech.
Add 1 0-ring where your sear use to catch and a bumper oring infront of that.
Now add a 1-way on-off selenoid in the grip frame

And boom you have it an air returned bolt - no sear no spring. Blow forward bolt design will still work and use the extra space where the on-off and reg were for volume.

Air-returned blow forward bolt design.

Produce this for a couple hundred bucks and I would promote them all day long.

TK if you read this this is Matt Shook from Kansas and I was wondering if you are going to CPX in April.

[DanMan]

Something being overlooked. In order to be competitive in this market it is virtually required that you have at least one Electro marker in your line up. Enter smart parts and a C&D letter.

F SP

smart parts owns the patent on electro markers? no wonder every one hates them.

[garbageman705]

9-volt all the way.

[AGD]

First of all the fat lady has not sung yet. Second, as the market goes down hill, AGD's position becomes stronger because they are one of the last of the quality markers.

You guys all want something 'new' but those options have long since played out with patents and litigations. What you will get (from everyone else) is a new 'look' every year and you will have to be satisfied with that. The Tippman 98 is ten years old this year along with the Dye Matrix (yes it was first designed in 98)

AGD needs to be seen as the Harley Davidson of paintball, a product with such history that to change it would ruin it.

AGD

[nmib]

Harleys? Loud, expensive, low sales and poor quality? I hope AGD isn't seen in that light. I grew up in a H.D. Shop and ive been riding since ive been four. I would in no way use H.D. as an example.

[AirAssault]

Just waiting on air assault to chime in

And here he is!! Sorry but every time someone puts one of these up, Ill say the same thing. Hit the ol search button and you will see that this topic, along with it's offshoots i.e. "AGD is dead", "what's up with AGD", "are mags dead" and so forth have been beaten down so much the dead horse deally doesn't even cut it. Last one was what, 2-3 weeks ago? Tell ya what, in a few weeks Ill make another AGD is dead/whats up with AGD thread to take the pressure off the n00bs that don't know what the search button is for. :shooting:

[magmonkey]

in my mind, with the rise of pump play, it opens another niche market, I would love..... let me rephrase that I would love to be shooting an agd pump marker... not a pump mag but a dedicated pump platform.

the way I see it is the electro market is a loosing battle too much BS
with the disposable e markers smartparts is churning out sceniaro paintball will be heading down the same road

now you have the pump market
ccm
cci
pps
all dedicated companys in about the same position as AGD market wise
all willing to play relitivly fair and interested in the expansion of the sport
and best of all NO SP PATENT ISSUES

don't give up on the MAG design it is in my mind the best semi platform availible, but face it agd is a legendary company, especialy to old school players, and now the tables are turning pump is becoming more and more popular. it seems to me like AGD would have a built in customer base in this area of the sport.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TOM use that gift you have to unleash the best pump marker the world has ever seen, and get AGD back where it needs to be ON TOP where it belongs.
:cheers:

[DanMan]

Ok, first off sorry for the noob question. I am new to mags but already have a strange attachment to the gun and thus the wellbeing of the company that made it. I know that agd is fine and mags are not dead. I was just wondering if they were doing any better or if they had anything planned. Times change so the search button is not always the best source of info on this topic. I am content with the company surviving and being static. It just seems a shame after all the innovation that I have read about that use to come from this company.

Second, THANK YOU TOM for an awesome paintball gun. :headbang:

[tech-chan]

I do think you guys jump on people when they ask that question. I want to know if AGD has anything in the prototype lab for the future. Do you guys have anything up your sleeve? I would love to see some new postings in Tom's Tech Tips and the prototype lab...

[Rudz]

whos AGD? :rofl:

[lather]

Well AGD is doing better than Hybrid or ICD.

Since AGD runs pretty lean, I bet they are better equiped to survive the paintball recession than many other companies. I think that with the exception of DYE, SP and PE, pretty much every other company in paintball has a chance to close its doors.

I think the fact that the trend back to lowering rate of fire (PSP, some fields going gravity hopper only use,or limited paint games) would potentially serve to help see more Mags and mech guns in general use.

[Chronobreak]

in my mind, with the rise of pump play, it opens another niche market, I would love..... let me rephrase that I would love to be shooting an agd pump marker... not a pump mag but a dedicated pump platform.

the way I see it is the electro market is a loosing battle too much BS
with the disposable e markers smartparts is churning out sceniaro paintball will be heading down the same road

now you have the pump market
ccm
cci
pps
all dedicated companys in about the same position as AGD market wise
all willing to play relitivly fair and interested in the expansion of the sport
and best of all NO SP PATENT ISSUES

don't give up on the MAG design it is in my mind the best semi platform availible, but face it agd is a legendary company, especialy to old school players, and now the tables are turning pump is becoming more and more popular. it seems to me like AGD would have a built in customer base in this area of the sport.

ccm and cci are doing GREAT, cant speak for palmers myself

the companies are dedicated, do not have a large variety of product/s and are very small operations.

if these companies along with agd would have expanded greatly during the big years and went all out like some i dont think they would be around still or as prevelant, same goes for cci and ccm.

keeping the business streamline and service baseds is what has save them, and for those that havent talked to any of the big guys laetely.....theyr all doing very poorly except a small few.

[magmonkey]

exactly my point, agd seems to me to fit right in with this. customer service second to nobody, a small amount of extremely well built quality products
what would it hurt to add one more marker to the lineup, and open up another cottage market?

[Chronobreak]

they would be straying from what made them great and has worked for so long

thats like CCi releasing the semi...

it just isnt their market or customer base for the most part.

also of it diddnt use mag parts thats that much more they need to engineer and have instock(more inventory is bad)

[lather]

An AGD pump would offer nothing new to the pump market. :rolleyes:
All of the pump manufacturers already offer high quality with great cutomer service. How would an AGD pump stand out among other pump manufacturers?

[DanMan]

ccm and cci are doing GREAT, cant speak for palmers myself

the companies are dedicated, do not have a large variety of product/s and are very small operations.

if these companies along with agd would have expanded greatly during the big years and went all out like some i dont think they would be around still or as prevelant, same goes for cci and ccm.

keeping the business streamline and service baseds is what has save them, and for those that havent talked to any of the big guys laetely.....theyr all doing very poorly except a small few.

I can acctually testify to that last part. I ordered a freak over Christmas from direct from the :mad: over the phone and the person said that my order was only one of two in there system. Smart Parts at Chrismas and I am one of 2 orders? Thats pretty bad.

[magmonkey]

An AGD pump would offer nothing new to the pump market. :rolleyes:
All of the pump manufacturers already offer high quality with great cutomer service. How would an AGD pump stand out among other pump manufacturers?

rubbish...
thats like saying they offered nothing new to the semi market because there were quality semi markers other then the MAG

how does CCI or chipley or pps or carter stand out?
they make destinctive quality products that speak for themselves.

[lather]

rubbish...
thats like saying they offered nothing new to the semi market because there were quality semi markers other then the MAG

how does CCI or chipley or pps or carter stand out?
they make destinctive quality products that speak for themselves.

Thats my point, CCI and PPS are not rubbish, they both offer high quality products combined with great CS. Its much easier for AGD to differntiate themselves in the semi market than the pump market.

Pushing for the gravity feed only hoppers or limited paint movement at local rec fields plays to AGD's strength and what they are known for--a high quality mech SEMI.

[magmonkey]

I was not saying cci or palmer ect are rubbish, I own a lot of the pump products that are on the market
I was saying the notion of not stepping into a market because it already has quality markers and good customer service is rubbish I truely belive AGD has what it take to compete with any of them as far as quality and service

[EdgePaintball.com]

AGD

Thankyou for responding. Can you please send a dealer app to my email address. Wichita use to be big time mag country because AGD sponsored a pro team in the mid 980's by the name Assassins. Needless to say there are still alot of Automags running around that need parts.

Regards,

Matt Shook

matte@nps.kscoxmail.com

[PBChappy]

mags will be around for a long time. I going the the blanding game next weekend and my Karta is going to be my main. my DM7 will sit in the bag until the karta stops working. As i have never seen a mag just stop working that a little oil could not fix i am sure I will be running a mag the whole game :D and like every game I go to i get question of what is that, who makes that, where did you get it, Stop ramping (love this one as its all Mech hehe). I trying to show them what makes mags great and yes its shots faster then you think. I have converted 2 members of my team to mags :clap: and I will keep the name alive as long as I can. And this is how Mags have been around forever. I still remember my lvl 5 mag i paid way to much for, and the trigger work to get out a blazing 6bps and all the cocker guys telling me mags suck. Hehe well guess what I still have my lvl 5 mag to this day and I will never let it go

[RobAGD]

EdgePaintball.com - you are going to have to make the effort on that.

Call the office line, and talk to Roman and get the deal app info that way.

-Robert

[blizpaintball42]

mags will be around for a long time. I going the the blanding game next weekend and my Karta is going to be my main. my DM7 will sit in the bag until the karta stops working. As i have never seen a mag just stop working that a little oil could not fix i am sure I will be running a mag the whole game :D and like every game I go to i get question of what is that, who makes that, where did you get it, Stop ramping (love this one as its all Mech hehe). I trying to show them what makes mags great and yes its shots faster then you think. I have converted 2 members of my team to mags :clap: and I will keep the name alive as long as I can. And this is how Mags have been around forever. I still remember my lvl 5 mag i paid way to much for, and the trigger work to get out a blazing 6bps and all the cocker guys telling me mags suck. Hehe well guess what I still have my lvl 5 mag to this day and I will never let it go


I let one of the kids on the young gun team I coached borrow my Emag for a tourny once... He had someone come up to him and ask him what kind of bodykit he had on his Ion.

[ThePixelGuru]

Two words.

Niche.
Market.

That is all.

[Anjin3515]

First of all the fat lady has not sung yet. Second, as the market goes down hill, AGD's position becomes stronger because they are one of the last of the quality markers.

You guys all want something 'new' but those options have long since played out with patents and litigations. What you will get (from everyone else) is a new 'look' every year and you will have to be satisfied with that. The Tippman 98 is ten years old this year along with the Dye Matrix (yes it was first designed in 98)

AGD needs to be seen as the Harley Davidson of paintball, a product with such history that to change it would ruin it.

AGD


I see where you are coming from AGD.
That said....I think some one asked it in an earlier post....is AGD where it wants to be? Perhaps the company is just happy with its market share and its sales.
However, if AGD wants to sell more...then I do think there are a few things that could be done.

1) You are 100% right about the patents and litigation....so its useless to even go down this alley unless for some reason the situation changes.

2) MILSIM- Here is someplace I think AGD could shine. The Mag itself is a great marker, by yesterdays and todays standards. But it lacks the ability to be "modded out" to be milsim. Milsim accessories sell well (in perspective of the paintball downturn). Tippmann has to make more off the accessories for the A5/X7/98 then in marker sales. Stocks,fake mags, barrel shrouds all that stuff....now if AGD came out with a body for the mag that makes this sort of modding easy I think you would up sales.

3) Advertise. Word of mouth just wont cut it. Mags are great....but only if you know about them. I just happened to stumble on them a year or so ago....if I had not...I would never have know Mag love.

AGD may be just happy where they are in the paintball market....and if so thats fine.
If....and only if they want to expand...I do think there are somethings they could do.

[custar]

also Automags do show up at D-Day. i know Custar is a mag fan and also on the board. so it's just word of mouth. have too kill a lot of rumors too.


Speak of the devil . . .

Automags do show up at OK D-Day and other scenario events, but AGD doesn't. Like Pyrodragon, I am a big fan of Automags and promote them intensely. I bought my son an Automag for Christmas. My D-Day unit went from having nearly zero mags in 2006 when we started up to having a large proportion of AGD's and AKA's currently. Once people are exposed to them, Automags almost always impress on their merits. However, it still bothers me that SP, Tippmann, and several others show up as vendors to the largest paintball event on the planet, but AGD doesn't. AGD definitely wants someone other than me teching their markers there.

I agree 100% with Warbeak's assessment on changes that could be made in the design of the valve, and those by Edgepaintball are interesting. However, there are other products that would greatly profit AGD and also benefit the players at the same time. Like it or not, the scenario and woodsball market is more viable than the speedball market in the immediate future. Two new body kits--one resembling an AK47 and one resembling an M4--would sell incredibly strongly. I'm not suggesting new body designs with little to no internal improvement every year or every other year. Just produce and release two new body designs that will be good to go for five years anyway. These aren't huge changes, but they would put AGD in a strong position in the strongest segment of the current market.

I am by no means the smartest or most savvy person posting in this thread--or even this post for that matter--but it is not difficult to see many ways AGD could increase sales and profits such as those above. Since AGD doesn't, I have to personally conclude AGD is satisfied with where it is. I speak only for myself, but I think a lot of people here echo the same sentiment: We are concerned that AGD is becoming (or has become) stagnant and may therefore fail. There will be a winnowing of the field in the coming months or year as the paintball market slows. If we have a full-blown recession, the winnowing may be brutal. Those of us who love mags desperately want AGD to survive if not thrive. It just seems at times that AGD is less concerned with survival than some of us fans.

AGD, if you want to make an appearance at OK D-Day, LMK. Vendor space is available. I'm just a player; I pay to play just like everyone else so I don't make any money from the event. I just want you to know there are a lot of people in the scenario community who support AGD and want to see it survive. A lot of us are also worried AGD won't.

custar

[RavishingEddie]

After looking over some very Old threads there have been many times were AGD payed attention to their customer demands and it never really worked as well. Many people like one design while others hate it and prefer something else. We all have different strokes and what might be a top seller for two weeks does not mean it will be a top seller much longer than that. AGD is very smart by giving us the most important essentials to help us come up with our own unique pieces of art.

Thank You AGD :)

[RRfireblade]

I probably shouldn't speak for Tom but oh well , I'll try and summarize it as much as possible :

Heres the AGD bottom line that most that have been around here long enough , have heard well enough times.

Tom/AGD would love to for AGD to be the biggest baddest thing again. He would love to release new products and would love to be the R&D machine they once were.

He would also love for the industry to return to the open minded , open hearted , all for the good of the sport , industry that it once was in order for any of that to happen. He feels the current state of the industry has stiffled future development of product and the current state in the legal world as it pertains to Paintball makes said things far to costly to risk.

In many regards I agree that Paintball is now a big boy business. I do feel however that there is room for the little guys to play too , to find thier own little corner of the sand box but each person/company has to make that choice for themselves when it's thier lives/family/money at risk. I don't fault him for that , especially if his heart is no longer in it.

So that leaves AGD where it is. In business for as long as it can be doing what it currently is doing , no matter how little that seems to some. If things change in the industry or AGD happens to buddy up with one of the big boys , then maybe that might change. Until then you just have to enjoy what you have and be happy to have that. :)

IMO ;)


:cheers:

[Spider-TW]

Well AGD is doing better than Hybrid or ICD.
True. We haven't seen a hybrid type post out of AGD or a 'yo mamas' mag yet. :rofl:

The Harley comparison is an interesting angle. I had a friend with one of the vintage AMF Harleys, they were like DIY motorcycles. They are much better now. As long as AGD doesn't go through some foreign ownership cycle this could work.

Except, where are the AGD leather jackets and boots? AGD/Doc Martin paintball boots. Yeah.

[WalkingTarget]

Moreover, would you want every other person you meet hauling out a Mag?

it'd be like what has been happening with Ions now. that's why everybody out there likes the DP Fusions and other, more unique markers; run-of-the-mill common place markers are not as popular anymore.

Part of what AGD markets is that special feeling you get by toting a mag to the field instead of a Tippmann, Ion or Spyder.

the best growth stragegy AGD has right now is quite simply, Us. the commutity that loves mags enough to keep improving and adding to the designs on our own (such as the pneumatic trigger mods)

If you want mags to be the big hit on the block, you're going to lose some of that special feeling you get by being a refined coinesur of paintball equipment.

Best things you can do to help AGD?

Buy AGD!

Not to mention if that new guy looking for a marker asks you about yours, reply with "the best damn marker i've ever laid hands on!"

[secretweaponevan]

Moreover, would you want every other person you meet hauling out a Mag?

it'd be like what has been happening with Ions now. that's why everybody out there likes the DP Fusions and other, more unique markers; run-of-the-mill common place markers are not as popular anymore.

Part of what AGD markets is that special feeling you get by toting a mag to the field instead of a Tippmann, Ion or Spyder.

the best growth stragegy AGD has right now is quite simply, Us. the commutity that loves mags enough to keep improving and adding to the designs on our own (such as the pneumatic trigger mods)

If you want mags to be the big hit on the block, you're going to lose some of that special feeling you get by being a refined coinesur of paintball equipment.

Best things you can do to help AGD?

Buy AGD!

Not to mention if that new guy looking for a marker asks you about yours, reply with "the best damn marker i've ever laid hands on!"

I agree.

Although, it would be cool to show up on play day and have everyone shooting mags.
One of the plus points (in my book) of the DP fusions are that they are American made. That is why I like AGD, Montneel, CCI, AKA, ATS, Sheridan/PMI, LAPCO, PPS, DP, etc. I will not shoot a marker manufactured in China. Just a plus in my book to shoot markers that provide jobs to my countrymen.

[RavishingEddie]

I agree.

Although, it would be cool to show up on play day and have everyone shooting mags.
One of the plus points (in my book) of the DP fusions are that they are American made. That is why I like AGD, Montneel, CCI, AKA, ATS, Sheridan/PMI, LAPCO, PPS, DP, etc. I will not shoot a marker manufactured in China. Just a plus in my book to shoot markers that provide jobs to my countrymen.

Agree with you there my friend. There is nothing like shooting an american made gun. I had a Warsensor pistol and that thing looked cool, but performed like poo poo.

[going_home]

Make Automag pump markers and pump kits available again.
Classic valves are all thats needed, offer powerfeed and ULE bodies.
Standard AM/MM rails. CF frames. It will sell.

When word gets out they are back everyone will have to get one.
I'm telling you its worth doing.
And its something NONE of the major companies are doing.
Perfect, another niche for AGD to fill.

When you've tried the rest, now get the best.
When they get sick of A5's, they get a Tac One.

It will be the same with AGD pumps.

:D

[Hgblues]

wow! and to think, all of this because 5 guys shootin' RT's spanked a buncha whiny All Americans with their Shocker Turbo's at Skyball one year . :clap: