Cocker for a first gun...

[rhetor22]

I'm trying to keep my freind from spending more money than he has to, all for a giant pain in the bum. This friend has never played paintball before, the only gun he has shot is my automag. He has never seen the insides of a paint gun or anything either. I wouldn't say he is a big tech/mechanical guy either. At first he was going to get a mag. I told him he really should get a model 98 or similiar gun, because he told me he wouldn't be playing for more than 3 years (college)

Then he wanted a mag because he got more money i guess, now he wants a cocker. He is determined to get one. I try to explain how horrible of a first gun an autococker is, and that it will cost a lot of money to maintain. He is going mainly on the basis of looks, and i'm afraid that will cause a problem. He won't listen to me or my friends who all scream TIPPMANN!!! at him for hours at a time. He'll be spending about $450, enough for the cocker (he wants a 2k2 blue cocker, vertical feed)and a tank(co2), mask, hopper, that sort of stuff. He could get a nice used mag with a decent nitrogen tank for less than that.

What do you guys think?

[rpm07]

The worst think anybody could do is buy a cocker for a 1st gun. Right of the bat he will want to take it apart to see how it works and that will be a mistake. I dont know where you guys live buy if you get cold weather co2 sucks even if you use a mag so first off he should get n2. Show him pics of mag all done i think you can get them to look pretty good. Tell him that cockers are me2 guns everywhere you look you see one and does he realy want that. Also sho him the support you get with AGD on their guns. I would rather see him buy a spyder for a first gun that a cocker.
Good Luck talking him out of a bad move.

[Nitroduck]

Cockers make GREAT first guns...

Of course, your friend will probabally buy a second one a week from the day he has his 1st problem and did $100 in damage to it.

Tell him IF he seriously is considering a cocker, he needs to go pick up a Cocker manual or find someone near him who knows all the stuff about a cocker.....And get him to talk to him about them.....

BTW. tell him this....

A Mag has 30parts....And you really dont need to mess with/know them....

A Cocker has somewhere near 80 parts....And you NEED to know every single part if you want to touch any part of it in an attempt to take any part of the gun apart....

I love Cockers....But getting one as a first gun is sheer stupidity.

[Magic37220]

Show him the flatline/mag package at PbGear. Then show him a zgrip. Hehe, that always works.

[[NA]WARLORD]

Hey let him buy it, then when he screws up the timing and cant play with it, you can light him up at the same time yelling "I told ya so, I told ya so", hehehe, J/K. Or wait till he goes to sleep, make tape that repeats "Tippmann" Over n Over, like a subliminal message. The only thing I can see is that he has some money, talked to somebody about a Mag, they probably used the "Cocker is a Tourney gun, Mag isnt Theory" on him, Now he's brainwashed on Autocockers,And hes trying to impress you with his new found Bull Shirt/ knowledge......... Go with him when he makes the purchase, Ask all the questions he possibly has no clue on yet, then let him make his own decision, even if he has to learn the hard way.

[Magic37220]

AWWWW! I wanted a bull shirt, i've been lookin around for onw al over the place! Hehe, jk, i know you ment to do that. :P

[deded]

have him go to www.paintballravi.com, and check out the cocker infosheet.

Look up the troubleshooting section, the one with the timing article.

Then go to www.airgun.com, and find the mag manual.

This is one of the reasons that I got a mag before a cocker. I have a cocker now, and I like it when it works... but I would have been screwed if I got it for a first gun.

[rhetor22]

thanks guys, I know the cocker isn't a BAD gun, its a great gun, but a HORRIBLE first gun especially for some one with limited rescources/technical know how. The paintball store near us just sucks. They don't know ANYTHING about guns and can't fix them for crap. I've seen the same autococker on their "to be repaired" rack for over a month. They also overcharge like they think they are part of DYE or something.

I'm probably the only one that knows much about paintguns, and i don't know that much. I've never even owned a cocker before. Well we'll see. If he gets it, he will have made a big mistake. I think he should get a tippmann (maybe one of those anod ones so it looks good) and a barrel then save the money.

The thing about a cocker is that its expensive in the first place, when parts break its expensive, and if you want to get anything new for the gun that actually does something you will have to pay a lot. with a mag you can get a retro or something, its an investment but it works wonders. With a cocker you need a new bolt a new 3way a new ram... all that stuff-> it ads up.

[bornl33t]

honestly a cocker doesn't make a very good beginner marker...
most beginners are so infatuated with the sport and the equipment that they feel the need to take things apart... Cockers are good guns but are a little iffey about how the parts work together... might not be a good idea...? But they ARE nice guns

[covadsucks]

I bought a cocker -didn't know a thing about them, but because I am an "engineer" by trade, I thought I could figure it out inside of an hour. Biggest mistake of my life. I still have that cocker, but it's been rebuilt time and time again. Once as a lowpressure monster, second time as a hotrodded color coordinated POS -now it's a bone stock cocker. Don't let him follow the path of the darkside, make him buy a Spyder, let him modify the daylights out of it and once he's done with it, then look into a cocker. Spyders have endless mods, and are cheap. Cockers are so overpriced it's not funny.

[rhetor22]

i would push for a tippmann, only because i am obsessed.

Well he now just thinks you guys are bias... well i guess he will find out when he gets it. Too bad for him i guess.

[StanBo]

I am in the same situation and have been in it before. Your friend will get the model 98. He will see someone play with a high end marker and will get the bug again.

Let him get the cocker. It will make him happy. It seems that friends do want advice but deep down inside they still want what they want.

I have stopped telling people "no". I get asked should I get a new front assembly for my cocker cause my 3-way is leaking. I tell them do what will make you happy. Get the whole front end. Get it in blue green red whatever. You don't want to hear my true opinion.

[Russ]

GET THE 'COCKER!

The gun of which you speak 2k2 blue cocker, vertical feed is a great beginner's gun. The first thing your bud will need to understand, though, is that it IS a great gun, and doesn't need to be modified, adjusted or otherwise tinkered with. Just play with it and have fun!

As his experience grows, the 'cocker will make a good platform for upgrades, BUT you gotta play with it for a while brfore you really understand what makes the gun work better vs. what looks pretty (and what others say you can't live without!)

Stock pneu's and bolt are great! The trigger frame works well, too! No need to replace 'em. Want to throw some money around? Get a Revy and nitro system. Got a lot of money to spend? Get an adjustable output nitro!

Sometimes 'Cocker's share in the same myths and misinformation as do 'Mags. Like manike says..."DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!"

[Wild_Osiris]

I finally got a cocker and although it is not my first gun I do recommend it. If he really wants it let him get it. Tell him though not to take it apart for a while. If he gets it and takes it apart the first day I am convinced he will not be able to make it work probably for a while. take it apart if there is a reason only period

[alf]

i ALSO looked at paintballravi.com...the troubleshooting manual is 26 or so pages long...my head was spinning with the terminology, and the 2-3 times that ravi said (paraphrasing) "youre screwed if this happens"...i thought, well, if no one knows how to fix this...im stuck with a 300-400 dollar paper weight...and man, will i catch crap for that...."you paid THAT much money for a gun that doesnt even shoot???"

so, i thought, if i get a gun and it breaks, i need to be able to fix it MYSELF in a few minutes between games...knew about the mag from a few years ago, and ordered one...

been happy ever since...NEVER had to sit out a game because my mag was "busted"

-alf

[InfinatyBPS]

A cocker isnt much of a good first gun but, it isn't all that bad if he dosen't mess with it. I say just let him go for the cocker. He won't need to upgrade anything cause the new 2k2 cockers are realy nice stock. I say support his decision, just tell him to make sure not to open it up till hes ready to retime, which I relized that after losing the stock timing, you can never get it back again.
And another things, cockers work just fine on Co2.

[Dealaman]

Sure Autocockers make great first guns, if you've owned other guns before. I have been paintballing a while and I don't find it extremely easy to work on Autocockers.

[liigod]

My first gun was an autococker. And i loved the thing i didnt regret it to this day. Shure e-mags are sick. but cheep mags are weak. You need inteleframes on them or some kind of aftermarket frame to make them near usuable. Yes i have owned a stock mag, i bought it after my cocker. But then i had to put a booyah on it to make it fire how i liked it. Buying an autococker as my first gun was the best purchase i ever made. autocockers are not complicated at all. All someone needs to do is explain to him how it works, if he cant figure it out that is. OR someone can tell him to not mess with it. Anyway if you want a less anti-cocker enviorment for asking for advice then go to the autococker form at paintballcity.com and post this topic in there. Good luck, i hope yer friend does buy an autococker. But anyway i hope whatever he buys works out for him. Toodaloooooo.

[[NA]WARLORD]

What constitutes a cheep Mag? Sounds like he's trying to stir some sh_t fella's.

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by [NA]WARLORD
What constitutes a cheep Mag? Sounds like he's trying to stir some sh_t fella's.

He's just complaining about the stock trigger like most people do...

[[NA]WARLORD]

I never had a problem with my Mags triggers when they were stock, first 2, but the Intelliframe is the bomb!

[Griffin]

Up

Well, I am the "idiot" that just might buy the autococker. The mag is great but I don't know, it just doesn't seem to have that oomf that makes me want to buy it. We'll see, thanks for the input.

Here is the autococker deal
http://www.actionvillage.com/010-9012-41.html


-Griffin

[rhetor22]

lets do a sound comparison to look for complexity of operation:

Automag:
Bang

Autococker:
Click, shhhhhkkktt, chck chck, pop, smack, powww, reverse click, sound of lady screaming, smack.


I just don't like how it takes a cocker twice as many parts and operations to perform the same task. :)

I don't have a problem with an autococker, but as a first gun i think it would be a horrible choice. I think it would be a horrible choice for anyone! If you've never played once before then you shouldn't go out and buy the most expensive stuff right? At least with a used mag he could sell it for the same price he bought it. A tippmann is much cheaper so its not as much of a loss, and it could still be sold.

[Griffin]

I just don't like you.

[jackass2030]

just tell him n ot to screw with it.

[SiLeNt X]

uh o look at this

<B>*POOF*</B>

[TheTramp]

Well....there goes this thread.

[RSUAVE911]

First off, Silent X take that down now!! Or I wil find out where you live and beat you senelessly. Your a jerk!!


To address the question posed: An autococker would have to be the worst FIRST gun you can possibly buy. Maintenance like you said would be a huge factor and if he does not know what he is doing, then it is going to be a horrible first experience for him. I would not even recommend a automag, I would recommend a tippman or stingray 2.

[covadsucks]

Griffin,
If you haven't already played with one for an entire day, do so before you buy your autococker. Before you buy one online, go to the local field and check it out in person, play with it some, get a feel for it. If you really want one that bad, by all means go get it. Before you do buy one, read the pros and cons carefully. Ask owners of them what the real issues are.

[bornl33t]

Originally posted by RSUAVE911
[B]First off, Silent X take that down now!! Or I wil find out where you live and beat you senelessly. Your an a@@ hole!!


personally I think it's funny that is until you realized that it's not a bad thing to be mentally handicaped. I mean by our standarts it is , but they are perfectly happy and for sure are most of the time better ppl then we are. And that pic is stating that it's bad to be retarded. So for that reason I don't agree with it.
BUT
two wrongs don't make a right and swearing and circumventing the swearfilter is something that MORE ppl will not find very agreeable. So with all due respect in the future you should be a little nice when you let ppl know that something aggrivates you. I'm sure he will be willing to take care of it when he sees it. so would you pelase take care of your mess...?

Thanks for taking to time to read my rant....I hope you see I just mean well... jsut like you meant well with your statement and am not tring to flame anyone.

Heat

[ThePatriot]

All these god damned rowdey new members....they all deserve to be beaten...posting this and circumventing the curse filter...Hell, you guys need to shape up fast and stop your little 3 year old, he did she did bull. If you dont like something respond to it in a civilized manner...

(this only pertains to this forum, in real life, well not in Fl, but in NY the only way to get the way u want it to curse them out and yell...not like that at all in florida, everyone is so damned nice)

[[NA]WARLORD]

Unless you vote there. lol

[rhetor22]

ThePatriot, I love Florida, my grandparents live there :)

I did think that was way out of line, especially with the "f" word that was in the picture so it could not be censored.

I'm not trying to start a ranting thing, i'm really just trying to save a friend some money and a lot of hassles. I just thought you guys would help to sway his opinion, or mine.

[Griffin]

Ok let's keep this thread on topic, just forget what Silent X did. About going to a local field to try out a gun, we don't really have one worth going to. if you look to the right
<-----
I live in Connecticut, that should be enough. So basically, I have to take your (biast) words for it when I am looking to buy a gun. Ok there.


-Griffin

[[NA]WARLORD]

A lot of this is based on experience from older players, who have had cockers, mags and more thru the years, but now have decided they prefer the ease/maintence and reliability of AGD products better. Also you get new players experiences from entry level markers to their new Mags, yes were biased as we know a good product when we have it, Not saying the cocker isnt good just that we prefer mags instead. If you go to a cocker forum the views will be just the opposite, what did you think would happen when you posted on an Automag site, I would go to a general forum, post same question and then base your opinion on the general concensus there. I wouldnt buy a cocker as a 1st gun, only based on my experience with friends that have them, matter of fact I wouldnt buy 1 period based on same facts, but thats only my opinion, some mat agree, i'm sure others wont, but hey thats what opinions are all about !!!!!!

[rhetor22]

I'm the one that posted!

Take a globe or an atlas, and find the biggest area of mountain or dessert wasteland you can find. Now go to the center of that area, there you find a label. This label should say "rhetor and griffin live here ->"

Hard to test out a cocker. The only one i've shot was some one who had a 2k1 standard feed. The thing sounded nice but i think something went wrong in there, it was chopping a lot of paint. He was using either marbs or allstars i think. He still had a stock barrel on there, though it was one of the nicer stock barrels i have seen. So my only experience with a cocker isn't too hot.

For the kind of painting we do i probably should have gotten a tippmann. I was just so sick of the raptor breaking down, i needed something reliable. Hell i would probably buy my mag if i never even played paintball. Its soooo pretty

[SiLeNt X]

jezz people dont any of you people ever think anything is funny....I didnt know the f word was on there other wise i would of fixed it.....just a joke...I have nothing against mentally handycaped people and I m sorry if I have offended anyone.:(

[rhetor22]

sorry, but things have been a little hectic around here lately...

[liigod]

You should really take this to another form, this is sooooo Biased its silly. Dont flame me guys, i own an f5 a cocker and a mag. So dont say i dont know what im talking about. Just take it to paintballcity.com or pbnation.com and go to forms that arent the cocker form or the mag form, ect.

[FooTemps]

But almost all forums are filled with cocker drones. Cocker Drones outnumber many owners out there...

[Bluntman]

I hate it when people post something naughty, and then when they get some **** for it they delete it. I wanna know what they said! :mad:

[Griffin]

jezz people dont any of you people ever think anything is funny....I didnt know the f word was on there other wise i would of fixed it.....just a joke...I have nothing against mentally handycaped people and I m sorry if I have offended anyone.



Handycaped? Wow man, you're a genious. Whoops sorry I'm being mean. Thanks for apoligizing. I'm not mentally handicapped, but rhetor22 is and he might have been offended. Just thought I should let you know.



-Griffin

[ThePatriot]

The F word wasnt on there..was it? I didnt see it at all on there, i saw a kid running and it said arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics, Even if you win you're still a retard

[[NA]WARLORD]

it was at the bottom, in the fine print, but it still wasnt very funny

[rhetor22]

Damn he found me out!

[SiLeNt X]

ok
1) I said sorry
2) i didnt delete the pic the mods did
3) you automag people are always so serious...ban me if you want ......if you think that was soooo bad and i didnt see the f word at the bottom.
4) does the f word offend you people that much or are you just looking for someone to flame?I hear the word about 30-40 times a day at school and the teachers dont even get offended or even care:o
5)I thought it would be a fun way to get my point across to you people who think cockers are soooo bad or mags have crappy accuracy.Its all a personal opionion so dont say people give you so much crap about my mag when you do the same thing about other guns....SOME of you people make me sick

[covadsucks]

back to the cocker chopping a lot of paint, it must've been a poorly timed cocker, bad paint, or a 9volt revvy. I've never chopped paint in mine since I started using a 12volt revvy. I can out shoot it no sweat, but it never chopped. As for the sound of the marker, yes it's very distinguished and very different from any other marker, but don't buy a marker because it sounds cool. Buy it because you know you can use it to it's fullest potential. I just traded my STO w/upgraded pnuematics and hinge trigger because I am tired of cockers. I miss it, and undoubtedly will build up another cocker, but it's only a cocker...once you get tired of it, get rid of it, play with a different marker, then when you want it back, go build another.

[[NA]WARLORD]

It wasnt that we are trying to flame you dude, it was just a subject that most people dont think is very funny, like in my case i know somone with Downs Syndrome that is a very special in my life, it was just a poor taste in jokes. But we know you didnt mean to offend us, its just that we dont appreciate humor in that manor, You never know who your gonna piss off when it comes to jokes of this nature, so in the future post wisely. Thats all, I personally accept your apology, but some may not...........

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by Russ
GET THE 'COCKER!

The gun of which you speak 2k2 blue cocker, vertical feed is a great beginner's gun. The first thing your bud will need to understand, though, is that it IS a great gun, and doesn't need to be modified, adjusted or otherwise tinkered with. Just play with it and have fun!

As his experience grows, the 'cocker will make a good platform for upgrades, BUT you gotta play with it for a while brfore you really understand what makes the gun work better vs. what looks pretty (and what others say you can't live without!)

Stock pneu's and bolt are great! The trigger frame works well, too! No need to replace 'em. Want to throw some money around? Get a Revy and nitro system. Got a lot of money to spend? Get an adjustable output nitro!

Sometimes 'Cocker's share in the same myths and misinformation as do 'Mags. Like manike says..."DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!"

What he said.

Good first gun if he doesn't monkey with it.

:)
DR

[rhetor22]

I don't think that he would, but he owns an orangatang. :)

[Griffin]

GET IT?! Monkey with it...orangatang? He's great.



-Griffin

By the way, this is the gun i'm getting probably. Is this a good deal?

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22516