emag will not fire

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

Ok - I have not played in 2 years, and today tried to gas up the emag to see if it will work. Of course it does not fire (oiled every o-ring up etc). No leaks.

I can trip the solenoid mechanically (so the gun cycles), and when I press the trigger I can feel it try to work, it just doesnt seem to have the power unless the gun is not gassed up.

Have tried the following:

charged battery
replaced on/off pin with my other one.
replaced quad o-ring
replaced on/off o-ring

The solenoid can trip when not gassed up (using my finger to simulate gas pressure), but will not trip when the gun is gassed up. I turned down the velocity until the gun would not cycle mechanically, still would not fire.

The gun worked perfectly the last time I played, so it must be an age thing I'm guessing, or maybe a different o-ring to replace. I also changed my main spring to the shortest one thinking that the resistance was too high, but if it fires mechanically I dont think this could be the problem??

Any help would be appreciated. Should I try my other x-valve in the gun to see if that helps (have an RT pro, but that hasnt been gassed up in just as long...)

[secretweaponevan]

Ok - I have not played in 2 years, and today tried to gas up the emag to see if it will work. Of course it does not fire (oiled every o-ring up etc). No leaks.

I can trip the solenoid mechanically (so the gun cycles), and when I press the trigger I can feel it try to work, it just doesnt seem to have the power unless the gun is not gassed up.

Have tried the following:

charged battery
replaced on/off pin with my other one.
replaced quad o-ring
replaced on/off o-ring

The solenoid can trip when not gassed up (using my finger to simulate gas pressure), but will not trip when the gun is gassed up. I turned down the velocity until the gun would not cycle mechanically, still would not fire.

The gun worked perfectly the last time I played, so it must be an age thing I'm guessing, or maybe a different o-ring to replace. I also changed my main spring to the shortest one thinking that the resistance was too high, but if it fires mechanically I dont think this could be the problem??

Any help would be appreciated. Should I try my other x-valve in the gun to see if that helps (have an RT pro, but that hasnt been gassed up in just as long...)

E-mags use the input pressure to determine the force required to push the on/off pin up. If you have an adjustable reg on your HPA tank, turn it down to see if that helps since the input pressure determines the amount of force needed to trip the sear and the battery (especially if it is ni-cad) might not have enough juice (amperage or voltage, I don't know) to activate the solenoid with enough force to counteract the pressure (PSI) being exerted on the on/off pin. If your HPA tank's reg is creeping, that could be the cause too, I think.

I don't own an emag, I am just hypothesizing, and I'm drunk, so go figure. :)

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

I usually have the tank at ~850 psi, but just turned it down to as low as 600 psi - no change - same issue.

[Tunaman]

Odds are that the battery is shot...after sitting for 2 years... ;)

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

any way of testing this without buying a new battery? I see some newer ones are availabel in the dealers forum (or at least were...)

[MournBlade]

Using a multimeter set to 20Vdc test the voltage across the battery after a full charge. It should read 16.8V +- 1V if there is a > -2V difference there is most likely a bad cell and the battery pack needs replaced. If thats Ok then test the voltage under load. ie. with the trigger pulled. If the drop in voltage is greater than 4v-5V the pack is too weak and needs replaced.

[Tunaman]

Using a multimeter set to 20Vdc test the voltage across the battery after a full charge. It should read 16.8V +- 1V if there is a > -2V difference there is most likely a bad cell and the battery pack needs replaced. If thats Ok then test the voltage under load. ie. with the trigger pulled. If the drop in voltage is greater than 4v-5V the pack is too weak and needs replaced.
It should read almost 20 volts after a full charge.

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

will check and get back to you guys. Thanks for all the help. Gassed up my RT as well today. Added a little oil and fired without a hitch. Not even a little lvl 10 leak after over 2 years. Awesome.

BYW how do you test the battery with it attached to the gun? Where to the multimeter leads go? (This may be a dumb question

[Ruler_Mark]

you cant, you take the batt off the gun, the leads are on the top the 2 clips but be carful not to short it.

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

Ok tested the battery today (not under load yet)

It gives 19 V after full charge. This seems ok to me...any other ideas or is it still the battery?

I will bring my multimeter home and test the battery more fully later if there are other tests you want me to run (at work now). Could it be the on/off pin or quad o-ring causing this? I wouldnt think so since it cycles mechanically....

[Ruler_Mark]

since it is cycling manually it has to-do with the eletronics.

Your sear may have wiggled its way out of spec, was it moved around alot or sat in a closet?

Is this loaded with xmod software? you might want to try to up the Dwell.

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

it was stored in the case in a closet. Might have been moved to get at things behind it, but not really very much.

The solenoid wiggles a little (that is how I know it is trying to fire), but doesnt seem to move much. The sear? Cant seem to think that moves much at all - should I unscrew it from the rail and see what I can see? (Never thought to take the rail off... took off the body, but not the rail...

Remember I can get it to fire when I take the valve off and push down the sear with my finger to simulate gase pressure (if that even matters)

No xmod software. I have 3.? (AGD put it on -cant remember the number still at work)

[TeamJackal37]

Does it do anything when on "M" mode?
Is the Safety button off?
I seen it happened when the Safety switch is on.

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

I have a fireblade, so the pin is not long enough for mech mode, however I can trip it with a screw driver and it fires.

The safety is on, I'll check closer tonight and see if it is impacting anything when I take the rail off

[Ruler_Mark]

can you get your hands on a caliper?

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

probably - I'll ask the science dept head where I work. What do you want me to measure??

[Ruler_Mark]

Solenoid Plunger Rod: 3.005"

you measure from the bottum of the black thing to the top including the part that attaches to the sear.

[BigEvil]

Even batteries that 'fully charge' can be bad. I have just come across two that are shot, but still show 18+ v after a charge. They will only fire the gun a few times when they are first done charging and then thats it.

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

so I need to take the solenoid and plunger out first I guess.

Any way to check to see if the battery is bad if it is reading a full voltage? There are no other emags near me that I know that I can test it on either....

[Ruler_Mark]

so I need to take the solenoid and plunger out first I guess.

Any way to check to see if the battery is bad if it is reading a full voltage? There are no other emags near me that I know that I can test it on either....


BigEvil -- but his gun isnt fireing once on E mode.



you do not need to remove the noid, just the sear to measure that.

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

it looks like it will be difficult to find calipers - I will look harder tomorrow.

I have the multimeter now - how do I safely test the battery under load?

I have the rail and everything off now too - safety looks ok.

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

no luck on the calipers - going to call around today see if any buddies can get them at work.

I cant seem to get the plunger out anyway - it cant go up as the metal of the grip is in the way and I can t slide the whole noid out since it is attached to the sear.

Not sure how much I want to play with this as I dont want to make it worse....

Any more ideas/suggestions?

[Ruler_Mark]

if you can be without it and some money I can help you out, pm me if interested.

You gotta pull the clip off of the plunger then the whole sear will come out

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

ok completed the following today:

took the plunger out and cleaned it. Made sure the inside of the solenoid was clean, reassembled.

As per someones suggestion regarding the solenoid used, tested the solenoid and got 3.8 ohms (which according to him was ok, so solenoid didnt seem blown)

Seemed that after reassembly the solenoid pushed on my finger harder os I was hopeful. Gassed up and...nothing. Still fires in mech mode, but not emode. If I use my finger to depress the plunger a bit farther (almost firing) then press the trigger the gun fires by electronics. The solenoid just doesnt have the power to fire the gun.

Switched out the on/off with my other x-valve. Just the brass part - quad oring and on/off pin the same - still doesnt work. May try switching entire valve tomorrow and see if that helps.

I'm going to give a full overnight charge tonight and hope that it helps - any other tests with the battery to see if it is the problem? I heard putting 2 9v batteries in series and hooking them up can fire the gun - should I try this?

Any ideas will help - I'd love to send this away to get teched, but customs is a pain to send it to the states....

[Ruler_Mark]

<a href="http://www.modmymag.com/images/displayimage.php?folder=custom&imga=IMG_0283.jpg"><img src="http://www.modmymag.com/images/custom/IMG_0283.jpg" width="600"></img></a>

thats how to measure it. only you want 3.005 and I was lazy to measure it that close.

[Tunaman]

<a href="http://www.modmymag.com/images/displayimage.php?folder=custom&imga=IMG_0283.jpg"><img src="http://www.modmymag.com/images/custom/IMG_0283.jpg" width="600"></img></a>

thats how to measure it. only you want 3.005 and I was lazy to measure it that close.
I dont like the 3.8 ohms. 2.8-3 ohms is good. Make sure you disconnect the leads from the board to test it. I also like the further end of the scale for the plunger at 3.010. As the solenoids get older, you may have to lenghten the rod a little bit. ;)

[Ruler_Mark]

I dont like the 3.8 ohms. 2.8-3 ohms is good. Make sure you disconnect the leads rom the board to test it. I also like the further end of the scale for the plunger at 3.010. As the solenoids get older, you may have to lenghten the rod a little bit. ;)
this was from a gun with only 2200ish on its shot counter so its got some time

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2121/2281949611_af03dcbd00.jpg

It was at 5.004 and I screwed the plunger out to 5.010 as seen in the picture.

After overnight battery tested at 20.01 V - but the red light was still on - this mean anything? other times the light had turned green and battery read near 19V.

Changed reg seat as well - that o-ring was in pretty bad shape. Added tons of lube.

End result - seemed worse. The amount of effort the solenoid seemed to be putting force seemed less. The noid wouldnt even wiggle a bit (still fired on finger simulating air pressure)

How do I remove the solder? One of my techie friends said there was a device to do that, but he didnt have one - he has volunteered to do the soldering for me, but I need to know how to remove the solder to test the noid.

This is starting to frustrate me a little bit - I always prided myself on being able to tech any mag problem, and have been able to for a while. However non-mech issues seem to have me stumped.

[Ruler_Mark]

at what temp did it sit? how much was it used pre-sitting?

It is beginning to sound like the noid is done. You batt pack sounds fine, if the valve shoots in mech mode and you have the emag length on off pin. The only thing I would try would be to raise the dwell.

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

lets say the temp it sat at ran between 50 and 75 degrees.

Pre-sitting it was used about twice a month for about a case a month paint. Total shots >20000. Never had an issue, so its the fact it was sitting.

Can you tell me how to get the solder off so I can test the noid off the board? There is someone I can get a used noid off for 30 shipped, so I will do that if its the noid that's gone.

How can I change the dwell? I have no xmod software.

[Ruler_Mark]

lets say the temp it sat at ran between 50 and 75 degrees.

Pre-sitting it was used about twice a month for about a case a month paint. Total shots >20000. Never had an issue, so its the fact it was sitting.

Can you tell me how to get the solder off so I can test the noid off the board? There is someone I can get a used noid off for 30 shipped, so I will do that if its the noid that's gone.

How can I change the dwell? I have no xmod software.

A soldering iron will break the hardened solder thats on there right now. I got a brand new one sitting in my parts box extra I paid 39$ for it, I'd be willing to part for that + shipping. was keeping it on-hand if mine ever blew.

[Crap_Boy_Smith]

ok finally got the soldering tools necessary for removing the noid and did so (I do not think I damaged the board :)

anyway I cannot seem to get an ohmmeter reading from the noid on the multimeter setting of 200 ohms (where I was getting the high reading before)

However I can get a fluctuating reading of 1.6 up to 100 or so on 200 Mohms (the next one down from 200 ohms).

Is there anything else I should measure on the noid? Is it blown from those readings?

I am almost completely useless when it comes to electronics, so bear with my ineptitude

And thanks again for all the help. If it turns out the noid is blown I will be looking to buy that new noid from you...