Ten Round Feedtube- Concept Drawing

[luke]

The real thing, 12 round RNC feed tube>
http://www.lukescustoms.com/RNC_feedtube_mod_1.JPG

What do you guys think?

This is to scale (Automag) with a 10 balls in the tube (11 with one in the breach). I added one extra ball because I don't know what kind of caps are available. If there are caps that fit OVER the tube then it could be shortened by .68".


http://www.lukescustoms.com/Page22_Picture_Host/10rdfeedtube.JPG

It would be all stainless steel conctruction, T.I.G. welded to the body like I do my other feedtube mods.


I'm moving this post comment up here so it dosen't get over looked.

Sorry guys IF I do this, it will be for SS bodies only. No threads- non removable welded to the body.

All SS bodies would be eligible, including Centerfeeds.

I will lower the tube to the surface of the body, NO problem. (I'm busy the next 3-4 days but I'll redo the drawing) I'm also going to remove the rear spacer, it really dosent need to be there and it just drives the cost up.

I will gladly look a a spring feed design if someone can turn me on to some ideas. Was the sidearm spring feed or rock-n-cock? At this point I don't see why I couldn't offer both.

For you guys that want to use a removable system that can be purchased on the market (held on by a set screw), I can redo your powerfeeds with a short tube coming straight off the body. (Like a cut down Automag feedtube, non-powerfeed) This I can offer today.

[wetwrks]

Why not do one threaded to simply screw into the ule body?

[hitech]

It looks good. Is the idea to have a spring loaded "cap" or is this a rock&load type?

[flyingpootang]

If you brought the feedtube close to the body it'll look better

[BigEvil]

If you brought the feedtube close to the body it'll look better

Agreed.

Spring loaded or rockNcock?

[luke]

hitech It looks good. Is the idea to have a spring loaded "cap" or is this a rock&load type?

What's involved in the sprinloaded cap? If it's just a matter of "space" that's no problem. That is easily adjustable. Really don't know anything about it.



flyingpootang If you brought the feedtube close to the body it'll look better

This too is no problem. I'm think about 1/16" gap between the body and tube would be nice.



wetwrks Why not do one threaded to simply screw into the ule body?

Perhaps when I'm set up with CNC machines, but for now this is for the SS bodies.

[mr doo doo]

this would definitely go great with my pistol mag! good thinking mr luke ;) :clap:

[Chronobreak]

luke, good work but as others have said

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/kartakeeper/dust-black-LP-mag.jpg

that looks alot better, and cleaner and requires no welding or permanent mods that im aware of other than the small set screwhole

[luke]

Well since there are options I won't bother, thanks for the heads up.. Moving on..

[GroovYChickeN 2.o]

honestly I would love this conversion for my mini mag body on my pump mag....

[Empyreal Rogue]

WWA still makes those tubes?

Luke I don't think anyone is trying to deterr you from releasing something, I for one would love to see something you could do. A spring loaded aluminum feed tube with a simple or even elegant design would be awesome. I would definitely start working on my PumpMag project sooner if that's the case, and I do mean that.

[mr doo doo]

Well since there are options I won't bother, thanks for the heads up.. Moving on..

i guess the people have answered mr luke... :( . do you think it would be possible to make enough threads in a SS body to hold a phantom feed? the ULE bodies get around 6-7 threads.

[Chronobreak]

luke your conversions alot better and very viable for those that have powerfeed or side feed ss bodies.

i just know i and others probly want something closer to the body

[Ninjeff]

I would love one, if its spring feed. Ive been wanting a mag pistol anyhow, and this would give me good excuse to do so.

[snoopay700]

I wouldn't mind one, i've wanted to do it with another body but i don't have the resources. Always something that appealed to me about making my mag into a sydarm (essentially).

[WingMan13]

Aww man, I have been wanting a pistol mag for some time as well. I wouldnt mind a SS body as long as its spring fed, feed tube a bit off set to the side as to sight down the barrel and just enough gap between the tubes to slide on a rail for some optics.

[chairman_mao]

I love it. I was looking for this exact same thing a couple of years ago and couldn't find anyone who would attempt it. I personally would prefer rockNcock but I would take what was offered. Will the cost be similar to your other feedtube mods? I know there will be more details in the dealer thread I'm just curious.

[luke]

Sorry guys IF I do this, it will be for SS bodies only. No threads- non removable welded to the body.

All SS bodies would be eligible, including Centerfeeds.

I will lower the tube to the surface of the body, NO problem. (I'm busy the next 3-4 days but I'll redo the drawing) I'm also going to remove the rear spacer, it really dosent need to be there and it just drives the cost up.

I will gladly look a a spring feed design if someone can turn me on to some ideas. Was the sidearm spring feed or rock-n-cock? At this point I don't see why I couldn't offer both.

For you guys that want to use a removable system that can be purchased on the market (held on by a set screw), I can redo your powerfeeds with a short tube coming straight off the body. (Like a cut down Automag feedtube, non-powerfeed) This I can offer today.

[hitech]

What's involved in the sprinloaded cap? If it's just a matter of "space" that's no problem. That is easily adjustable. Really don't know anything about it.


The AGD sidearms have a spring loaded cap. That's about all I know about them. ;)

[cerrik]

I'm looking for one to be springfed. Trying to make a pistol, and the idea of a 10 shot semiauto pistol that I have to rock to feed really bugs me.

Simply mill an "L" shaped channel along the tube that a nubbin type of device slides through. Attached to said nubbin is a plate that pushes your spring back so you can load the thing. This will also require a paintball sized hole in the tube just above the actual breach opening. Cap off both ends after placing your spring assembly inside.

Essentually this will look just like any springfed pistols magazine. Only attached to the mag.

Also, they would have to be a bit longer than originally planned to accomodate the 10 PBs planned to account for the space taken up by the spring and such. But shouldn't be a problem.

Also, could you mount it facing forward, like a pistols mag?

[luke]

The AGD sidearms have a spring loaded cap. That's about all I know about them. ;)

Can anyone provide pictures or drawings of these?

I'll do some searching as time permits, I'm just a little busy right now.

Thanks

[PumpPlayer]

The Sydarm uses an internal (welded) fillet-shaped insert to direct the balls from the feed tube into the breech.

The cap, spring and follower move front-to-rear to feed the paint against the baffle and into the breech.

The Sydarm is loaded by drawing the magazine follower forward and locking it into position using a small knob. This uncovers the feed port located in the extreme forward top section of the magazine tube. 8 rounds are loaded and the follower is unlocked and spring force drives it rearward. The follower covers the feed port as it travels.

This type of feed can be put onto other springfed magazines somewhat easily.
It's not the best example but you can see AgentSmith's here (http://z1.invisionfree.com/forums/StockClassPaintball/index.php?showtopic=21602&st=0).

I can take pictures of a Sydarm later if they're still needed.



The reason why you need to move the feed tube out and away from the body is because the Phantom-style feed gate will hit the valve, yes?

You can simply extend the feed tube so that the wider gate section is past the rear of the marker. Even us stock classers prefer a 12-13 round feed just to give you some buffer room for reloading.


I think it is a very good mod and I would be willing to have it done.
You don't, by chance, also do rail + body milling for a pump kit, do you Luke?

[mr doo doo]

personally, i think springfed is a bit over excessive. i play with my pistol mag all the time, and the paintballs always find their way down the tube and into the breach. having just a simple SS tube for balls is just find, and will keep the cost low.

Using one of those phantom feedcaps is perfect for the tube, but will have to be taped down since it isnt a 100% fit. having a 6.8" tube is probably a good enough length to attach a feedcap at the end without hitting the valve, but it is the distance between the feedtube and the body that could be a problem...unless the tube was extended more behind the valve, just like what pumpplayer said.

[Empyreal Rogue]

But there are a lot of single tube (Non-spring loaded) loaders available aftermarket. Granted there aren't any available at all for SS bodies, there's still an overall lack of spring-loaded feed tubes available aftermarket. That's why I think this will be a nice addition to Pump-Maggers.

[luke]

Using one of those phantom feedcaps is perfect for the tube, but will have to be taped down since it isnt a 100% fit. having a 6.8" tube is probably a good enough length to attach a feedcap at the end without hitting the valve, but it is the distance between the feedtube and the body that could be a problem...unless the tube was extended more behind the valve, just like what pumpplayer said.

Any pics of these?

[mr doo doo]

uh.... i guess i was just blabbering and guessing :tard:

[luke]

The Sydarm uses an internal (welded) fillet-shaped insert to direct the balls from the feed tube into the breech.

The cap, spring and follower move front-to-rear to feed the paint against the baffle and into the breech.

The Sydarm is loaded by drawing the magazine follower forward and locking it into position using a small knob. This uncovers the feed port located in the extreme forward top section of the magazine tube. 8 rounds are loaded and the follower is unlocked and spring force drives it rearward. The follower covers the feed port as it travels.

This type of feed can be put onto other springfed magazines somewhat easily.
It's not the best example but you can see AgentSmith's here (http://z1.invisionfree.com/forums/StockClassPaintball/index.php?showtopic=21602&st=0).

I can take pictures of a Sydarm later if they're still needed.

Pictures would be great. I didn't see the picture in your link.




The reason why you need to move the feed tube out and away from the body is because the Phantom-style feed gate will hit the valve, yes?

No reason really, it's just a concept drawing to get the ball rolling on the design.



You can simply extend the feed tube so that the wider gate section is past the rear of the marker. Even us stock classers prefer a 12-13 round feed just to give you some buffer room for reloading.

All that is adjustable, it dosen't matter to me, what ever you guys want.



You don't, by chance, also do rail + body milling for a pump kit, do you Luke?
No I'm not offering that milling, sorry. There are 2 problem areas in the pump slot tool path that can not be done a cleanly as I would like. There is another guy in the dealer forum that is doing them.

[luke]

uh.... i guess i was just blabbering and guessing :tard:

No, I heard you.

I did say several times I can do both. The rock-n-cock is a no brainer. All we need is a cap, can you show me a picture?

[mr doo doo]

No, I heard you.

I did say several times I can do both. The rock-n-cock is a no brainer. All we need is a cap, can you show me a picture?

you mean of the feedcap?

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/mistahchao/DSC04150.jpg

Here it is on a powerfeed:

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/mistahchao/DSC04151.jpg

but on the powerfeed, it wont hold well. if i face the feedcap downward, and make one quick down and up movement, it will fall off.

(wow, pictures are suppose to be smaller... darn photobucket :cuss: )

[ThePixelGuru]

This is a great idea, luke. I've been thinking about a pistol 'mag, but the main thing that's kept me away is that I don't want to shell out for a ULE body just to put on it. Springfed isn't a necessity, either. Anyway, I'm subscribing to this thread, looks very promising. Any guesses on price, or not at this stage? Cheers!

[luke]

you mean of the feedcap?

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/mistahchao/DSC04150.jpg

Here it is on a powerfeed:

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/mistahchao/DSC04151.jpg

but on the powerfeed, it wont hold well. if i face the feedcap downward, and make one quick down and up movement, it will fall off.

(wow, pictures are suppose to be smaller... darn photobucket :cuss: )

Pictures a perfect, thanks.

Can anyone measure a Phantom tube for me? I need to know what size tube these are intended for. I may be able to adjust the tube size to fit the cap.

[luke]

This is a great idea, luke. I've been thinking about a pistol 'mag, but the main thing that's kept me away is that I don't want to shell out for a ULE body just to put on it. Springfed isn't a necessity, either. Anyway, I'm subscribing to this thread, looks very promising. Any guesses on price, or not at this stage? Cheers!

I'm not sure about the price yet. I've priced them before and always priced them as a one-off job, which meant they were a little spendy, not over the top, but then again I never got the work.

I was just contacted again about one last week, so I got to thinking about them again. The design is changing (in my mind anyway :tard: ) which will help bring the price down. This is for the rock-n-cock, I don't have a clue about the spring feed design at this point.

If I feel this is a marketable idea I can price them with production figures and bring the price down. The biggest problem is the price of stainless steel, it VERY, VERY costly. Stainless is a little more than 6 times the cost of aluminum!

[MANN]

to give you an idea about the spring feed. Have you ever seen a "clip" for the PT Extreme pistol? That kind of idea would work wonderful with this. It would also probally not be that hard to make.

On your pic. You would use a powerfeed plug toward the front of the marker (which I am sure is what you were going to do anyway), and on the other side you would place a long grove down the feedtube. You will use that to place a spirng with a cup on the end, and the cup will have a tab that sticks outside of the feedtube and will ride along that groove. At the back of the marker you will have what will appear to be a zlock groove to hold the spring back while loading. The cup can be just a round piece of short cylinder of alum to make it easy to tap for a tab that will reach the outside of the feedtube. Of course the back of the powertube will will be blocked off to keep the spring in. I always thought a screw in plug would work best as cleaning would become a breeze.

I had this idea once upon a time, and ditched it. Somewhere I had found a place for the springs. I will try to dig up that info.

[luke]

I'm beginning to think the spring feed design would cost too much for the numbers that would sell in the AGD market, especially making them out of stainless. A simple feed tube mod to change out the powerfeed bodies to mount an aluminum tube tight to the body sounds more reasonable to me. (?)

[GroovYChickeN 2.o]

I will probably have you mod my pump mag with either design you decide to offer, however I would really like a spring feed design.

Just my $.02

[ThePixelGuru]

I'm beginning to think the spring feed design would cost too much for the numbers that would sell in the AGD market, especially making them out of stainless. A simple feed tube mod to change out the powerfeed bodies to mount an aluminum tube tight to the body sounds more reasonable to me. (?)
Sounds good. I think that the best thing that could come of this would be a good, cheap option for pistol 'mag feedtubes. I'm already keeping my eyes open for another PF body. :D

[ThePixelGuru]

Bump.

Any updates?

:shooting:

[luke]

No, I haven't really done anything with it. We need to decide what to do about the cap because it will dictate the tube length and or how far the tube sits away from the body. Really that's all that is holding the project back, besides ordering materials.

My idea was to just use a powerfeed plug as a end cap. I know they are a little hard to remove, but i figured a smaller oring would fix that. What do you guys think?

As far as the spring loaded tubes, I think it would be best just to use what is on the market and do a feed tube mod to mount it correctly.

If you have a spring tube that is held on by a set screw, I can do the feedtube mod for it anytime.

[chairman_mao]

I don't see a problem with a powerfeed plug as they normally come. They may be a wee bit difficult to remove but if I understand correctly there will not be a lot of cause to remove them. The rear of the tube will mirror what exists on Phantom feed tube, correct?

[luke]

The rear of the tube will mirror what exists on Phantom feed tube, correct?

I guess you missed my point, I was suggesting that we use a powerfeed plug instead of the Phantom cap at the rear.

[chairman_mao]

I guess you missed my point, I was suggesting that we use a powerfeed plug instead of the Phantom cap at the rear.

AHHHH. It seems to me that would be pretty annoying when in the middle of a gun battle and it came time to reload. What do I do with the p/f cap and the cap to the 10 rd tube while I try and get the balls situated? Not that it can't be worked out but I persoanlly prefer the Phantom end cap. That's not to say I couldn't do that on my own after you have done the body mod.

[RRfireblade]

I guess you missed my point, I was suggesting that we use a powerfeed plug instead of the Phantom cap at the rear.


First off , as a stock class player , great idea. Having seen your SS work I'm sure they will be a steller job.

My suggestions would only be to definately keep the feed tube tight to the body , more SC acceptable and preferable.

And definately use a Phantam 'like' feed cap , almost a must IMO.

Not sure if you got it yet but the Phantom ones fit on a .875 tube but they are plastic and have some variance.

My .02 :)

[nmib]

Luke,

I understand the cost factor for spring feeds might be to costly or time consuming but please leave the option on the table. Id rather ship my body to you and have it done then get it back and wait even longer to have it done by palmers, which inturn will be raked over the coals price wise.

maybe once the design is finished have a half and half? half stockclass have springfeed run? btw i vote for AGD style plug. lets keep'em lookin a mag. you guys that want a phantom style cap also want a ule body... well most of you. let us ss guys have some fun eh? :cheers:

[RRfireblade]

you guys that want a phantom style cap also want a ule body... well most of you. let us ss guys have some fun eh? :cheers:

Actually we just shoot more than 10 balls a game ;) you ever try and reload under fire with a plug in the end of your feedtube ?

:)

[chairman_mao]

Actually we just shoot more than 10 balls a game ;) you ever try and reload under fire with a plug in the end of your feedtube ?

:)

Agreed. While I like to think I'm a great shot but the reality is I shoot more than 10 balls in a game. I want to keep the SS body and classic mag look but I am not willing to sacrifice function for form.

[luke]

Sorry for the ignorance..

By the comments made above, I'm guessing that you reload "through" Phantam cap?

[luke]

BTW, I've pretty much decided I would make a few of the "rock n cock" tubes. I just need a cap so I can finalize the design.

[luke]

First off , as a stock class player , great idea. Having seen your SS work I'm sure they will be a steller job.

Thanks. :)


My suggestions would only be to definately keep the feed tube tight to the body , more SC acceptable and preferable.

What do you mean by "SC"?

Sorry, i don't get out much! :rolleyes:




And definately use a Phantam 'like' feed cap , almost a must IMO.Not sure if you got it yet but the Phantom ones fit on a .875 tube but they are plastic and have some variance.

Where might I get my hands on one??

[luke]

Luke,

I understand the cost factor for spring feeds might be to costly or time consuming but please leave the option on the table. Id rather ship my body to you and have it done then get it back and wait even longer to have it done by palmers, which inturn will be raked over the coals price wise.

What exactly do they offer? Link?

[Smoothice]

What do you mean by "SC"?

Sorry, i don't get out much! :rolleyes:




Stock Class

[Twistedpsyche]

I actually just aquired a mag pistol, I kind of like the way it was done. What they did was take a magazine similar to those from a Zeus pistol and weld it to the body. That way it's all spring fed.

What would be really cool is to weld up a mount that allows you to use these Zeus magazines one the Mag pistol. That would be sweet. Why design something totally new?

Just my 2 cents.

[211]

the phantom feedcap is very similar to a halo speedfeed, its just tabs of plastic that are flexible enough that you can push a 10 rnd tube into it, and when you pull out the tube the tabs bend back, blocking the tube and keeping the paint from coming out

[luke]

Thanks.

[luke]

I actually just aquired a mag pistol, I kind of like the way it was done. What they did was take a magazine similar to those from a Zeus pistol and weld it to the body. That way it's all spring fed.

What would be really cool is to weld up a mount that allows you to use these Zeus magazines one the Mag pistol. That would be sweet. Why design something totally new?

Just my 2 cents.

I did a search and found the tube you are talking about but couldn't find anything on the mount.

[nmib]

luke the Zeus mags have a pull push duel pin system thats spring loaded. they are also hideous in my opinion and only look good on the armotech/miltec pistols.

as far as the pps spring feed tubes i know its like 100 bucks for a pgp base marker(kp,pm1 ect). Maybe the cost of brass is more than ss? but that just seems outrageous too me, considering they do all brass markers and buy all that tubing in bulk. anywho, custom work is custom work and i dont want to upset the pps fan boys. :nono:

as far as the cap... i just expressed what id prefer personally. I dont have an issue with reloading. but if it came with a phantom cap... am i not going to buy it? NO! Still going to buy one.

:cheers:

edit: looking for a pic still of the zeus mag system. like i said its a pull push duel pin system on the mag and a opposing hook system on the marker it self. so.. i dont thing it would be cost effective. plus they be ugly.

[luke]

I'm not opposed to offering more than one type of service for the same mod, as long as it is something I want to do. ;)

As far as the cap, at this point I haven't really considered selling them. I generally only sell parts I make myself, with the exception of the few electrical parts I stock. Sales are not enough to allow me to buy enough stock to make it worth my effort.

The tube length and location will be determined by a suitable "loading" cap. The final design will allow the use of either. As soon as I can get a cap I'll get the project underway. If someone will direct me to a reputable shop to purchase one, I will. :cheers:

[Rudz]

Whitewolfairsmith has aluminum caps

CCI has caps too

And jay8541 may still have some delrin ones he made


Remember when you by a cap you still need the ball retainer that acts like the speed feed that sits inside the cap

So you need a cap and retainer


Good luck, I'm gonna watch this thread, I'm very intrested

[ThePixelGuru]

Bump.

Just keepin' it alive, I'd like to see this happen.

[ShotgunFacelift]

Looks promising :D

Bump

[luke]

It's going to happen. I have the materials to make 8 or 10 setups. I have a customer body in the shop right now waiting for the conversion, i just have to make the parts. I'm just more than a little behind right now. :(

The material I use is just a smig bigger than what AGD uses so the caps fit nice and tight. I'll have to find out for sure what brand was sent in and pass it along..

[chairman_mao]

I'd love to get in the first round of these. Let me know when you catch up and are ready to take my money to do the conversion.

[luke]

I'll probably post the first completed here in this thread, then start a thread in the dealer section. Once I get my customer stuff done, this project will be next on the list. It shouldn't be long. :cool:

[mr doo doo]

:clap:

[Twistedpsyche]

Just to make sure I understand..... will this be a spring feed that we can put a SC push cap on the end of? If so that is sick and I want one, once I know the price. :)

[luke]

Rock-n-Cock.

[Twistedpsyche]

Rock-n-Cock.

Aaahhh... bummer.

[luke]

If you can find a spring tube that fits the stock AGD stainless steel feed tube I can probably modify the factory tube for a nice tight fit.

[onedude36]

How convenient! i was looking to do this exact thing. I couldnt find the stainles tube, but then again i didnt really look very hard. If you can get this going, ill be in :cheers:

[luke]

UPDATE:

The first proto type gun is done! I'm very pleased with the finished product. :)

We ended up with a 12 round feed tube, I hope no one complains about that. The end cap fits nice and tight, so no tape will be needed. I got the tube as tight as possible, so a little sanding will be necessary on the bottom of the power feed plug.

Batteries are dead for the camera, I won't have any pictures up until tomorrow afternoon or evening. I'll also try and get prices up for pre orders.

I've pretty much decided at this point that it will probably be a one run deal. I will not have a minimum for pre orders; I'll just make enough to fill what was paid for in advance. The reason for the one run is because the price of stainless steel is through the roof, and there a great deal of work in these even though they look simple. I do not anticipate moving a quantity of these, but I would like to at least break even.

:cheers:

[questionful]

Could you make one for a classic RT?

[luke]

All stainless steel bodies can be modified.

[mr doo doo]

cant wait to see pictures luke! :clap:

[luke]

The real thing, 12 rd RNC feed tube>

http://www.lukescustoms.com/RNC_feedtube_mod_1.JPG

[mr doo doo]

whoa, that is what i'm talking about! very clean, very shiny, haha. nice job man!! :hail:

[luke]

Thanks. :cheers:

[EclipseClassic]

I want one. I want one. I want one.


I want one.

I want one.

I want one.

dddddddddddddrrrrrrrrrrroooooooooooooooollllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll ll

[EclipseClassic]

Springfeed? I would HAVE to have one if it was springfeed. :clap:

[luke]

I want one. I want one. I want one.


I want one.

I want one.

I want one.

dddddddddddddrrrrrrrrrrroooooooooooooooollllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll ll


I'll get the details up in the dealer forum tomorrow, tonight is fight night. ;)

[luke]

Springfeed? I would HAVE to have one if it was springfeed. :clap:


Sorry, no. Rock n Cock only..

[chairman_mao]

Look great Luke. I can't wait for the dealer thread. Will you be offering all of the normal finishes you have available as part of the price?

[luke]

Look great Luke. I can't wait for the dealer thread. Will you be offering all of the normal finishes you have available as part of the price?

Finishing prices will match the prices I have listed for my other feed tube mods. The price on the RNC tube will be seperate.

[MrBlack]

The real thing, 12 rd RNC feed tube>

http://www.lukescustoms.com/RNC_feedtube_mod_1.JPG

This is great! I want one! and I didnt mind the first run being higher off the main body.

I just scanned though half of the posts but did anyone mention of a right feed tube instead of the left sided tube?

[luke]

These tubes will fit any of AGD's stainless bodies. ;)

[luke]

Dealer thread is up. >HERE< (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230574)