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Lohman446
03-11-2008, 07:14 PM
As some of you know I count Randy at Colors Paintball as one of my good friends. We were having a discussion during a "fun" tournament the other day about those of us who loved the game but no longer wished to compete at a high level.

I never had the skill to play at the levels I did at. I got lucky a lot, and had incredible teams around me. That being said, today's teams require more than they used to to stay at the top. I no longer have the incliniation to run drills, practice, and work nearly constantly to maintain that edge. The teams of my friends who I used to play with (who generally no longer play on solid teams) I can put together really have no place playing in the lower brackets. That being said Sunday proved what I already knew - they also have no place playing in the higher brackets against teams who have practiced and played together on a normal and consistant basis. While I will continue acting as an emergency back-up to my teammates I have no desire to compete for a spot on the team anyways. I just want to play the game

Coach Paul Bear Bryant once said "Its not the desire to win that matters, everyone has that. Its the will to prepare to win that matters". While, I don't have that will to prepare to win anymore... I'm not sure I ever did. I don't even care about winning anymore, I want to play in an environment where I can compete.

So we have discussed replacing the rookie bracket, changing it, and making a Sportman's Division. I have been told to open the topic to discussion, and to come up with ideas on how to make it work. Now, there are no gaurentees that it will happen, but at least my friend was kind enough to tell me he would listen, and seriously consider it. So, now I ask AOs help in making it happen.

Although the rules do not state it part of the bracket would be a reduced entrance fee, coupled with the understanding there would be no prizes.

Sportsman’s Division

Preamble: It is the intent of the Sportman’s Division to give players who want to play in a tournament environment without the pressure to win a place to play. It is also to serve as a developmental environment for new players who want to learn the basics of tournament play and competition. It’s a division intended to be not about winning, but about enjoying the game in a tournament environment.

1) Teams may be a combination of rookie pre-selected teams and teams composed of randomly selected players of various experience levels.

2) Pre-selected teams (teams not selected by random draw) must meet certain criteria as outlined below:

2A) Pre-selected teams may contain players with appreciable experience in a ratio not to exceed 29%

Appreciable experience shall be defined by the tournament promoter. As a general rule any player that has placed in the Sportsman’s Division in the past, placed as a player in the lowest bracket, or competed in any level above the lowest bracket shall be considered to have appreciable experience. Further players with more than one year paintball experience shall be considered to have appreciable experience.

Example: Three person pre-selected teams may contain no players of appreciable experience. Five person teams may contain 1 player of appreciable experience. Seven player teams may contain 2 players of appreciable experience. Ten man teams may contain 2 players of appreciable experience.

2B) Pre-selected teams shall be limited to not more than 40% of the Sportsman’s Division
Example: If 8 teams are scheduled not more than 3 teams shall consist of pre-selected teams. If 10 teams are scheduled not more than 4 teams shall consist of pre-selected teams

2C) To qualify as a pre-selected team the team must constitute an entire team. That is to say a pre-selected five man team must have five players.

2D) In the event there are more pre-selected teams than slots available preference shall be given to the teams with the least experience

3) Random draw teams shall consist of teams composed of players selected by random draw either on the day of the event or prior by the tournament promoter by whatever random means is available. TEAMS MAY BE ADJUSTED PRIOR TO THE FIRST GAME IF THE TOURNAMENT PROMOTOR FEELS ANY TEAM SELECTED BY RANDOM DRAW IS COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO THE IDEA OF THE SPORTSMAN’S DIVISION.

4) No prizes of significant value shall be awarded based on a teams score or placing in the division. It is encouraged that prizes be limited to plaques or small trophies.

5) Team names shall be arbitrarily assigned by the event promoter with the intent of avoiding publicity to the team members. It is encouraged that colors, letters, or numbers be used. Exception: Tournament promoters may elect to use team names formally associated with the sport or field in tribute to those teams that have gone before us.

6) The Sportman’s Division shall be about sportsmanship. Any prizes of significant value awarded in the Sportman’s Division shall be by random draw or as sportsmanship awards decided in a manner determined by the event promoter. As a general rule prizes based on entrance fee are discouraged and should only be used as a way to award outside sponsorship prizes.

7) The event promoter may make rule adjustments to go with the spirit of sportsmanship.

8) No person shall wear clothing intended to give them a significant competitive advantage: IE loose clothing, excessive padding; clothing intentionally matched to paint color, clothing that is intended to camouflage a valid break, etc.

9) It is your responsibility to call for paint-checks, and to call yourself out on anything that would be considered an obvious hit. At the ref’s discretion an obvious hit is any hit not to the pack behind the player’s hip or to the outside of a player’s hopper. A hit that would not be considered obvious becomes obvious if, at a ref’s discretion, a player should have known about it. Do not “play until a ref calls you out”. It is the responsibility of a player to call themselves out, it is the responsibility of a referee to enforce the rules.

10) Major violation of the rules of fair-play (wiping, blatant and intentional overshooting, unsportsmanlike conduct, etc.) will result, on the first offense, in a one year ban from the Sportsman Division. Subsequent violations will result in stiffer penalties at the discretion of the event promoter.

11) It is expected that all players shall prepay an appropriate amount of time before the tournament to allow the event promoter to set up the bracket.

shives007
03-11-2008, 07:28 PM
I'm not sure such a division could be much more than a local, isolated success, I applaud the sentiment. That would absolutely be where I would play.

Shives

jade_monkey07
03-11-2008, 07:45 PM
If this were to become part of the tourney scene i would definitely take part. im not that happy about the team selection process because i have friends that i enjoy playing with. but this is WAY better then the way it is currently

Lohman446
03-12-2008, 06:38 AM
I need any ideas anyone has in making this concept better in practice

athomas
03-12-2008, 07:43 AM
A Sportsman division can be just an open division with nothing more than trophies. Have a reduced entrance cost, to reflect the lack of prizes. If there is another open division with a high prize value, teams that want to prove they are the best will be in that bracket, just because that is where the money is. Stacked teams will always play where they think they can win money. If you have a division where there is no return on the investment, then you will never have stacked teams. In that division, you will only have players that are there to have fun and realize there is a cost associated with that. Everyone wants something for nothing. Take the "something" away and you are left with the real loyal players.

Lohman446
03-12-2008, 08:13 AM
We tried that a couple years ago - reduced entrance fee open division tournaments. We found that the highly competetive teams still used it as an open practice and would blow through the lower division teams.

grEnAlEins
03-12-2008, 09:23 AM
When are you planning on starting this up? I am still at Ferris State through May and would certainly make the trip to come over and play in a tournament like this. Team AO Mafia again?

Lohman446
03-12-2008, 09:45 AM
When are you planning on starting this up? I am still at Ferris State through May and would certainly make the trip to come over and play in a tournament like this. Team AO Mafia again?


Right now I am trying to talk him into doing it at the major tournaments - however I am thinking a test run outside of the regularly scheduled tournaments might be a good idea.

May 4th is the first regularly scheduled tournament - that being said Im not sure the idea is going through.

Old School 626
03-12-2008, 09:49 AM
While I hate the idea of "not keeping score" and "we're all winners here" that is so prevalent in kids sports today I like this idea.

Perhaps one tweak that you might consider is putting age into the team make up or possibly doing it as a 40+ "Silverback" bracket .

Lohman446
03-12-2008, 10:15 AM
While I hate the idea of "not keeping score" and "we're all winners here" that is so prevalent in kids sports today I like this idea.

Perhaps one tweak that you might consider is putting age into the team make up or possibly doing it as a 40+ "Silverback" bracket .

I thought about the age requirement, However part of the constraints are that I may not just add a division and I must make a place for true rookies to play as well (as I'm basically replacing the lowest division). That, and I would not meet most age requirements :).

Im thinking of a big cup type trophy where I can add little plaques with each events winners names on them and keep it at the field. That way, in five years, one would be able to look back and see all the different people who had been on the team with the top score. Play for pride rather than prizes.

Chaos_Theory!
03-12-2008, 11:29 AM
Randy does a great job with trying to make things fair but i can still see peopel trying to exploit the division and sandbag. Admitedly i did not read your entire post if you covered that issue. Im on break at work so i dont really have the time. lol

EDIT: I read more of it and that would take a lot of work to say the least. Randy wont let me play any lower than D2 with the people i currently play with (unless i drop down a bit to play with some new tournament players) but itd be cool to see this work out for the less experienced players out there.

Randy already has a lot going on so its hard to say if this concept will see the light of day.

rabidchihauhau
03-13-2008, 06:05 PM
I wouldn't make it so complicated:

NO money, no prizes, no nothing except play.

pick the team members randomly (and if you like, do it after every round of play)

disqualify anyone who: isn't overweight, doesn't have a damaged limb, hasn't just started playing, doesn't wheeze audibly, obviously has money, hasn't been playing for more than two decades...

zondo
03-13-2008, 06:21 PM
No prizes? C'mon... how about a patch. Better than a T-shirt or ball cap you'd never wear. Just sew it on your gear bag and bring it to the next tourny. You'd walk away with something that really isn't all that extravagant.

Scott Hudnall
03-13-2008, 06:48 PM
All else aside, the REAL issue that keeps many, if not most of us away from the tournament scene today is the wiping and cheating to win at all costs attitude. Instead of calling it the "sportsman" division, or "silverback" division, how about simply calling it the "honest play" division? I've never minded getting beat by a good team that plays honestly. It's just when you see the obvious wiping, that...ahem....the ref's apparently were unable to see, that it makes your blood boil.

Make it an exclusive division - HONEST PLAYERS ONLY.

:cheers: