can't understand ballers

[rabidchihauhau]

I’ll Never Understand Paintballers

Let’s say you just ordered a new game machine from one of the big producers – an Xbox, a Nintendo or a Wii. You go to their website, haul out the credit card, punch the keyboard, reluctantly decide to part with your hard-earned dollars and click the ‘order’ button.

You get a nice email confirmation informing you that the charges have been approved and that your item will be shipped to you within a week.

The week comes and goes. You email customer service. They send you a nice email stating that there’s a temporary back-order and you’ll have your game box in two weeks time.

You wait. The date comes and goes. You decide to get in touch with customer service again – but they send you an email. The backlog is bigger than expected and you will absolutely get your game box in two months time.

You briefly decide to ask for your money back – but then decide to wait – again.

Two months go by. No game box. You call up customer service. They explain that there were some unanticipated changes to the hardware – someone measured something wrong – and they’re fixing everything. They’ll put you on a call list and keep you informed. For some stupid reason, you agree.

They call you up a few weeks later and tell you that good progress is being made – but that the plastics company making the casing hasn’t decided on what color to make the boxes, so things are going to be a little delayed.

They call you again a few weeks later and ask your opinion on whether the power port should go on the back or the side of the box. You say ‘back’.

By now, you’re wondering why – if they accepted orders, they’re still building things, still deciding colors and obviously still designing the box…

For some reason you ignore these questions. By now, almost a year has gone by and you still don’t have a game box. You’ve spoken to several other customers in the same boat and they tell you how marvelous and wonderful customer service has been, calling you up with progress reports all the time, promising to add extra features; when you start to complain, someone offers to buy out your order.

For some stupid reason, you keep on waiting, but can’t figure out why…

Neither can I. For all of the great companies in paintball, I can’t understand why players will sit still as someone takes their money, smiles at them, promises the world and then attacks the people who begin to ask questions.

You wouldn't stand for it if it was one of the companies mentioned above - why take it from a paintball company? Cause its paintball?

Stupid. The ONLY reason why this kind of thing persists in the paintball industry is BECAUSE people like you continue to believe BS promises. If someone is selling something, they should ship it in a reasonable time or send you your money back - not live off the interest...

[paintball72]

I agree :argh:

[warbeak2099]

Gee I wonder what paintball product he's talking about...

Just to be fair, I love how paintballers who don't know what they're talking about love to stir the pot with baseless conjecture and personal ego trips.

[michbich]

It's always easy to judge others when you already know the outcome isn't it? It's not that easy when you're in that situation though. I don't see the point of this thread. If that was your intention...mission accomplished.

[Papa_Smurf]

Gee I wonder what paintball product he's talking about...

Just to be fair, I love how paintballers who don't know what they're talking about love to stir the pot with baseless conjecture and personal ego trips. Carry on loser.


He doesn't even play.

[olinar]

Here is why:

You can get a gaming console just about anywhere now, If not direct from the manufacturer there are plenty of storefronts and other online services that have them readily available.

Where else can you find some one to make a production pneumag frame for an automag.

If it were any other marker that has aftermarket accesories readily available they wouldnt put up with it.

But if they are shooting a mag they know they are going to have have to wait for good thing otherwise they would switch to another marker.

[Ninjeff]

Geez, that was about as thinly veiled as they come huh? :rolleyes:

Maybe if Xboxs were made by hand by one or two people gamers would be more "understanding"

[teufelhunden]

I think what he's doing is making a large scale analogy to the small scale pattern of crap that is the pattern in which most mag dealers do "business"

[KC]

This must be an attack on logic Paintball customers, as the description of communication doesn't fit Devil Den?

If so, its a poor comparison between main, stream readily available electronics, being manufactured by some of the largest electronic companies in the world... And a one of a kind, hand built, Electro-Pneumatic frame.

Now before this post is picked apart piece by piece let me add a few shields I'm sure you will find someway of penetrating.

By mainstream? I mean 41%+ of US homes have a console
By large companies? I'm talking about Sony and Microsoft
By one a kind pneumatic frame? I'm talking about the Logic E-UMF
By picked apart piece by piece? Just. Stay. Tuned.

-Kristian

[Steelrat]

Christ, at least Coolhand's communication has been there. Take a look at Doc or Punisher...

[Chronobreak]

good anology, as im in the same situation here with a pre order.

things that are irrelevant and should have been decided long ago are taking up too much time, things that should have been decided upon and appeared to be done from a consumer standpoint.

and as far as your "gaming system", i doubt your the only one in the same position and you being a paintballer has little to nothing to do with it.

--cant say i agree with rabid as some of his views dont align with mine per say.

but when your right your right.

[Beemer]

- not live off the interest...

Hey how much interest we talking about here? :spit_take


Here it is all public for you all so I dont hear all the crap.

warbeak2099 and michbich you are WARNED. If you cant post here with some respect please dont post. I did the edit on your posts to remove the flame this time. I wont do it again. It will be removed and you will get a temp. If you have an issue you can PM me.

[p8ntball72]

I agree :argh:


Nice screen name, wanna come over and drive my car :tard:


Automag owners will always be the "suckers" of the paintball community.

1 we all think our guns are not good enough
2 we all want to keep up with the Jones
3 we have more disposable marker income because we haven't bought new guns in 10 years.
4 when anyone brings up questions, they get trolled by the suckers and mods.

The best automag owners are the don't wine about wanting something new.. because what we have is still the best. these same people also don't get fooled by the latest snake oil salesmen on the forums.

Best of luck to you suckers.

[Smoothice]

I'm surprised rabid has stayed quite as long as he has.

Stirring the pot is fun. Especially when it has to do with a product his company could/would never release.

I'll tell you this rabid. If and when all us gforce buyers get screwed I will be the first to admit you were right.

But I'm fairly certain when they are released you will just hop up on another soap box and continue to cry wolf.

What's next rabid? When do you start crying again about how they infringed on a patent that 2 other companies hold?

[punkncat]

When do you start crying again about how they infringed on a patent that 2 other companies hold?

Uh no, if you remember correctly I was the one who cried about that. He just validated it to some degree. :D

Although many will find reasons to be upset about this post....I suppose it hits close to home...I find it pretty spot on. Many paintballers just seem to have "sucker" tatooed on their forehead.
Its kind of funny really. This is a group of people who will :cuss: at the drop of a hat, but the very next person to come along with some pie in the sky promise of product and they line up, wallet in hand.

[MANN]

your comparison is completely bogus

call up this same gaming company, and tell them that you and a couple dozen more people are wanting their gaming system to be 100% custom. Each of them a different color. Each faster, lighter, user friendly then any other previous gaming system. Tell them you want something that has yet to be mass produced. Then ask them about the waiting time.

Good Luck :cheers:

The simple fact is that custom/good work is hard to find. It is even harder to find at a reasonable price. Your options are Time(give it to me quick), Price(I want it cheap), and Custom(lets get something nice). You can only pick 2.

[KC]

your comparison is completely bogus

call up this same gaming company, and tell them that you and a couple dozen more people are wanting their gaming system to be 100% custom. Each of them a different color. Each faster, lighter, user friendly then any other previous gaming system. Tell them you want something that has yet to be mass produced. Then ask them about the waiting time.

Good Luck :cheers:

The simple fact is that custom/good work is hard to find. It is even harder to find at a reasonable price. Your options are Time(give it to me quick), Price(I want it cheap), and Custom(lets get something nice). You can only pick 2.

Great post. Also, it should be said, no one holds a gun to your head and forces you to pick at all. If you dont like it, dont pick. But if you pick... dont cry about not getting to pick 3 times.

-Kristian

[Lohman446]

I was under the impression everyone knew at the beginning this was going to be a customer supported project rather than investor supported.

[Dark Side]

your comparison is completely bogus

call up this same gaming company, and tell them that you and a couple dozen more people are wanting their gaming system to be 100% custom. Each of them a different color. Each faster, lighter, user friendly then any other previous gaming system. Tell them you want something that has yet to be mass produced. Then ask them about the waiting time.

Good Luck :cheers:

The simple fact is that custom/good work is hard to find. It is even harder to find at a reasonable price. Your options are Time(give it to me quick), Price(I want it cheap), and Custom(lets get something nice). You can only pick 2.

Wonderfully said.

[MournBlade]

I had to wait 7 months for a sandisk titanium 1gb thumbdrive. When it was all said and done the company refunded 75% of the original price. I no longer preorder unless I'm certain of the release date.

[CoolHand]

This must be an attack on logic Paintball customers, as the description of communication doesn't fit Devil Den?

If so, its a poor comparison between main, stream readily available electronics, being manufactured by some of the largest electronic companies in the world... And a one of a kind, hand built, Electro-Pneumatic frame.

Now before this post is picked apart piece by piece let me add a few shields I'm sure you will find someway of penetrating.

By mainstream? I mean 41%+ of US homes have a console
By large companies? I'm talking about Sony and Microsoft
By one a kind pneumatic frame? I'm talking about the Logic E-UMF
By picked apart piece by piece? Just. Stay. Tuned.

-Kristian

I don't think he's talking about me.

1) My pre-order has been going on for much longer than a year (oh how I know that).

2) All the design and engineering on my project was done weeks before I started the pre-order, and have not changed since. All my in-house parts were manufactured and waiting on outside vendors six weeks into the project.

The big problem as far as I can see with PB pre-orderes is not that folks are thieves, but rather all the outside vendors are liars. Call and ask a board company how long it will take to get 50 boards, and they'll say something like a week or maybe two at the most. But it will actually turn out to be more like six or eight (or not at all). Same with ano. With the exception of GBA, every single ano house I've worked with has said X days turnaround, and it's always more like X weeks, or X months. NEVER on time. All that compromises the initial timeline, and is impossible to accurately predict.

Couple that up with crummy profit margins to begin with, and 99.997% of all pre-orders would be non-starters without the pre-order. The risk to return ratio is simply far too close to one (or a number less than one) for a small business to go out on that limb without deploying some sort of hazard mitigation device.

So you have two options, spend a crap load of money up front on an iffy project and maybe end up going out of business over it, or spread the risk out over yourself and the customers who really want the product.

Of course, the more sanctimonious (and least in touch with reality) amongst us will decry this as horrible unethical and just plain evil business, to which I will simply reply. Bullpies!

It's horrible and unethical if you lie about what's going on, and you try to defraud people, but when you lay it all out up front, and you tell them exactly what is going on, it is no longer a shady deal by any means. You lay out the terms clearly and they either agree and buy into the pre-order, or don't. No one is forcing them to do anything, and no one is misrepresenting what they are getting into.

What Rabid Et Al is doing is twisting the argument around to make it seem as though all pre-orders are destined to end as the Devil Mag debacle did, which is complete and utter horsecrap, and he knows it. But that doesn't serve his intentions at the moment. If there is one thing I have learned about him and a few others on this forum, it is that they very rarely say anything that is not calculated to elicit an exact response.

That all said, I am beginning to suspect that Rabid's tirades are more driven by having lived a life that fell far short of his expectations, rather than any well defined goal or reasoning. He's grumpy, and therefore the rest of the world ought to be grumpy as well.

At any rate, whether he likes it or not, I and GeForce will not go away, and I at least, will deliver what I promised, as soon as I am able to. My actions and my monetary expenditures back what I say 100%. I will lose money on my pre-order, but I will deliver what I said I would.

Rant and nay-say all you like, don't make me no nevermind.

:cheers:

[AirAssault]

I'm just glad Im here to buy the items people want to get rid of WHEN they get them..... Works for me. ;)

[Lohman446]

Couple that up with crummy profit margins to begin with, and 99.997% of all pre-orders would be non-starters without the pre-order. The risk to return ratio is simply far too close to one (or a number less than one) for a small business to go out on that limb without deploying some sort of hazard mitigation device.

So you have two options, spend a crap load of money up front on an iffy project and maybe end up going out of business over it, or spread the risk out over yourself and the customers who really want the product.

It's horrible and unethical if you lie about what's going on, and you try to defraud people, but when you lay it all out up front, and you tell them exactly what is going on, it is no longer a shady deal by any means. You lay out the terms clearly and they either agree and buy into the pre-order, or don't. No one is forcing them to do anything, and no one is misrepresenting what they are getting into.



The little I am familiar with your preorder yours is one of the VERY FEW I have ever seen done honestly and up front. As I saw it I can sum it up.

1) You told customers that it was a no go without preorders - if they wanted this project they had to preorder.
2) You told customers it would be a nasty wait with numerous pitfalls along the way that slowed things down ahead of time.
3) You stayed well ahead of the curve in communication, and told your customers up front what to expect in communication.

Most companies are not up front about it. Most companies do not allow the customers to know they alone do not have the investment capital to make it work. Most companies do not set and meet expectations as far as what should be expected communication wise. Then again, I expect if we took the time you have in communication alone and divided your profit amongst those hours we would find you are working for several people who have to have a custom product for a wage that is ridiculously low, not to mention the risk to reputation and headaches associated with the project.

The problem in general is most people (and companies) in paintball don't do this. They are new so they don't have a reputation to protect and are probably short lived in the industry. As others pointed out companies outside of paintball (I'll snag the Scandisk example) have a reputation and future sales to protect.

[RogueFactor]

If you cant post here with some respect please dont post.
LOL. That rule sounds familiar ;)


For some stupid reason, you keep on waiting, but can’t figure out why…
Yeah, I wonder when PTP is going to do that run of custom MicroMag bodies that were supposed to have been started in November/December last year. Buyers have been waiting!!!

[Chronobreak]

rogue, or the original pneuframe with specs and a pre order list. the only difference btwn ptp and gforce in that aspect is gforce accepted money for what is/was basicly a phantom project.

we can point fingers all day, but at the end one is probly pointing at nearly everyone.

I jumped on the karta body when DW released them, am i a sucker...i like to think not however that could ahve also ended up turning out ugly for various reasons.

I gotta give props to those dealers here who ahve done research and made assurances that the pre orders go as planned and everyone gets what they deserve in a timely manor.

[halB]

There's ALWAYS a difference between products that are made by machines in some godless factory in china, and a product made by the hand of a craftsman. If the threadstarter can't see that, then I hope they'll be happy with McDonald's every night. After all, THEY get the speed right.


Dangit. The threadstarter is someone I respect. There might be more to this than I thought...

[RogueFactor]

rogue, or the original pneuframe with specs and a pre order list. the only difference btwn ptp and gforce in that aspect is gforce accepted money for what is/was basicly a phantom project.
Whether money was accepted or not, delays happen. Lets not be hypocritical. I seem to recall MANY folks upset about the shipping delays of White Wolf, yet you were one of his biggest supporters.

[going_home]

LOL. That rule sounds familiar ;)
Yeah, I wonder when PTP is going to do that run of custom MicroMag bodies that were supposed to have been started in November/December last year. Buyers have been waiting!!!

Well I see your point but in the case of the PTP bodies, you need to go back and look at the thread. PTP never initiated the thing.
AO member Dend78 called them and asked them what the possibility would be to get another run of some new form of the PTP unbodied Micromags done.
He started the list thread. Tracy did come in and post in the thread a few times but I dont believe she ever promised a firm date on when the thing would go down.

So I dont think that case really applies here.

I'm pretty sure Steve was just antagonizing the G-Force customers .
Its the whole patent thing again, and in my humble opinion (even though I didnt buy one)
that, even though he has the right to do it, it wasnt helpful to PTP (if anything it harmful to PTP). And it hasnt added anything of value to AO.

Honestly, I dont know for sure what he would say, but I dont think Forest would appreciate Steves post because the antagonism is not helping Pro Team Products at all.
On the contrary. And this is coming from a PTP Micromag fan too.

:(

[Chronobreak]

i am a wwa dealer, i have an obligation to make sure any of his or my customers are happy(within reason)

i dont recall me defending him, but as i said offering to help and find the problem if there is one.

there is a pretty big difference.

its like somone saying they are unhappy wiht TMS service, while its not you(or is it) you are somewhat obligated to help and give responces where neceary which i know for a fact you have done as a question in responce to an Email from a member sent to TMS

custom work is also different thana a pre order, i dontsee the hypocracy...atleast on my end :D

--on a sidenot micromags are what got me into paintball, from the time i saw one i thought it was the most beutiful marker ever.

im not sure what else needs to be said, i think rogue questioining me simply supports rabids post and examples. :rofl:

atleast the bickering and arguing over semantics gives us something to do.

when all is said and done fingers pointed, money spent, time wasted, I still have no pneuframe :sleeping:

[jenarelJAM]

Custom projects always take longer than you think. I mean, I'm only 19 and I've seen this firsthand many times in my life. All you can do is find what you want and be prepared to wait for it. Good people will do what needs doing to get them done for you.

For instance, I just received email confirmation that jared@DC is sending my robtown valve for my viking after almost half a year since pre-order. It was originally supposed to be done about 4 months ago. But he got it done. I tip my metaphorical hat to him.

[RogueFactor]

Well I see your point but in the case of the PTP bodies, you need to go back and look at the thread. PTP never initiated the thing....
...
So I dont think that case really applies here.
Whether they initiated it or not, they got involved and there has been a delay---so it applies. The point here is the hypocrisy of the thread starter to criticize others and not himself or PTP for similarities.


i am a wwa dealer, i have an obligation to make sure any of his or my customers are happy(within reason)

i dont recall me defending him, but as i said offering to help and find the problem if there is one.
If you didnt take the order, you are not obligated to do anything. You do not openly criticize WWA for delays, but you are the first to openly criticize other companies for similarities. Dont know what you call that...but that is most certainly defending and supporting him in my book.


its like somone saying they are unhappy wiht TMS service, while its not you(or is it) you are somewhat obligated to help and give responces where neceary which i know for a fact you have done as a question in responce to an Email from a member sent to TMS
Im not obligated to defend any wrong-doing.And Id be the first to criticize any RPG dealer if I find they are incorrect. I would openly apologize for their mistakes if one was made. I would NOT defend or support any incorrect action.
So no, its not anything alike.


...i think rogue questioining me simply supports rabids post and examples. :rofl:
Agreed. They simply support the fact that you are both hypocrits. You both say one thing, and do another. You are the first to openly criticize others for delays, but not those you are associated with.

[zaqwert6]

I musta overlooked it but what date did PTP give to deliver bodies? All I could find was a reference to when they could even consider taking on the project. Just curious is all.

[going_home]

I musta overlooked it but what date did PTP give to deliver bodies? All I could find was a reference to when they could even consider taking on the project. Just curious is all.

All Tracy said was they had other obligations and they will definitely get to the new style Micromag body project as soon as possible.
So yeah, like I said, that example doesnt work at all here. Not at all.

:cool:

[BigEvil]

Hey Lasrsktr, aren't you still waiting on some chord bodies? Whatever happened with that whole thing?

[rabidchihauhau]

I don't think he's talking about me.

That all said, I am beginning to suspect that Rabid's tirades are more driven by having lived a life that fell far short of his expectations, rather than any well defined goal or reasoning. He's grumpy, and therefore the rest of the world ought to be grumpy as well.



Correct

Incorrect.

[RogueFactor]

Hey Lasrsktr, aren't you still waiting on some chord bodies? Whatever happened with that whole thing?

Yeah lasrkstr, do tell! What happened? Were you given the option of getting one early? Did you decide on your own accord to wait? Were you told this all up front? Can you cancel at any time? Have your slugs returned? Yep, thought so. :eek:

Its always nice when someone has all the facts. :D

And of course...I dont complain when there are delays from others...it would be hypocritical ;)

BTW---How long will the delay be on vbulletin? :rofl:

[Lohman446]

So the argument is becoming... because unexpected (and unannounced, Coolhand I give you a pass on this because you were so up front) are common place in the industry they are ok?

Ridiculous. If I contract something to be done by a certain date and it is not done you are in violation of contract. And yes, your verbal (and written on boards) promises can be part of that contract. The problems that occur during your for profit project are your problems and should not be so easily written off as the customers.

The fact that your suppliers do not meet your expectations is a problem between you and them, and should not be so easily written off as the customers. The fact that your suppliers constantly cause problems that you are surprised by indicates a lack of planning or control of your projects. The fact it happens over and over indicates an entirely different problem.

It is not the customers responsibility to foresee these problems if you do not tell them ahead of time that they are likely to occur.

Just because its "business as normal" does not make it right.

Edit: In only excluding CoolHand I may have been unfair. It was simply the one I recalled off hand being that up front. I know some others are as well.

[RogueFactor]

So the argument is becoming... because unexpected (and unannounced, Coolhand I give you a pass on this because you were so up front) are common place in the industry they are ok?

Ridiculous. If I contract something to be done by a certain date and it is not done you are in violation of contract. And yes, your verbal (and written on boards) promises can be part of that contract. The problems that occur during your for profit project are your problems and should not be so easily written off as the customers.

The fact that your suppliers do not meet your expectations is a problem between you and them, and should not be so easily written off as the customers. The fact that your suppliers constantly cause problems that you are surprised by indicates a lack of planning or control of your projects. The fact it happens over and over indicates an entirely different problem.

It is not the customers responsibility to foresee these problems if you do not tell them ahead of time that they are likely to occur.

Just because its "business as normal" does not make it right.

Yep, and at the end of the day, if you contract something to be done by a certain date and its not done...one option is a refund. Thats standard.

I agree with everything else youve said...the customers only responsibility is to pay.

[Lohman446]

Yep, and at the end of the day, if you contract something to be done by a certain date and its not done...one option is a refund. Thats standard.

I agree with everything else youve said...the customers only responsibility is to pay.


That much is true. Given the option of waiting longer or just getting money back many people opt for simply waiting. I guess the question is this: in many of these projects is money back an option or has the money all gone into the project and is no longer available for refund?

[RogueFactor]

I musta overlooked it but what date did PTP give to deliver bodies? All I could find was a reference to when they could even consider taking on the project. Just curious is all.
Hey RRFireblade...I mean Zaqwert6 :eek: . Good to see you around Jay, incognito nonetheless. LOL.

Yep, Tracy said theyd start the project back in November when the machines freed up. Re-read my posts...we are talking about delays. That was the original long-winded gripe that started this post. And this one has been going on since September of last year...what is that, 4 months? I dont have an issue with delays, they happen. Just the hypocrisy.


Here ya go...

9-21-07

Hi Everyone!! This is Tracy Hatcher. I wanted to set record straight.... But I can tell you that I would need at least 100 bodies sold. I would have to get a small deposit to show that yes you do want this and you are serious. Right now our machines are busy with other projects and will be tied up until the beginning of November.

9-21-07

So with that in mind it will take us a little more time, but I think that everyone will be pleased with the final results.

Tracy

9-24-07

...Yes, our machines are tied up until November, so we can't move faster. (Faster isn't always better anyway)

Tracy

3-07-08

Mudd - i havent heard anything from PTP for a bit, last i knew their contract got pushed on into feburary, so i think we are getting closer to our time

[BigEvil]

BTW---How long will the delay be on vbulletin? :rofl:

I dont know... considering that all of the members that abandoned pbl and came over I should get off my butt and get on that. Then again I have other things to do than sit in front of a PC 24hrs a day. :rofl: Admittedly my privative software cant handle it all too well, but then again what good is having awesome web software when there is no one visiting? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[punkncat]

I dont know... considering that all of the members that abandoned pbl and came over I should get off my butt and get on that. Then again I have other things to do than sit in front of a PC 24hrs a day. :rofl: Admittedly my privative software cant handle it all too well, but then again what good is having awesome web software when there is no one visiting? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:shooting:

[RRfireblade]

Hey RRFireblade...I mean Zaqwert6 :eek: . Good to see you around Jay, incognito nonetheless. LOL.




That's my brother silly boy. ;) He's here for the weekend as he often is.

[Smoothice]

I dont know... considering that all of the members that abandoned pbl and came over I should get off my butt and get on that. Then again I have other things to do than sit in front of a PC 24hrs a day. :rofl: Admittedly my privative software cant handle it all too well, but then again what good is having awesome web software when there is no one visiting? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yeah big-e - You need to get some really cool and hip video games on your site. I mean I haven't played Tetris in years. Rogue better watch out cause all the traffic those video games are going to produce might crash a server. :rofl:

I would go back to pblegion just for those really cool games if it wasn't secretly owned/operated/and moderated by roguefactor. Oh wups, did I just let out the secret? :ninja:


Hey RRFireblade...I mean Zaqwert6 :eek: . Good to see you around Jay, incognito nonetheless. LOL.



Look at the pot calling the kettle black. Should I address you as roguefactor or legionarre?

[RogueFactor]

I dont know... considering that all of the members that abandoned pbl and came over I should get off my butt and get on that. Then again I have other things to do than sit in front of a PC 24hrs a day. :rofl: Admittedly my privative software cant handle it all too well, but then again what good is having awesome web software when there is no one visiting? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Thats the best you got? You really are slippin' :spit_take

"Sorry boys"... :dance:

[Lohman446]

They didn't ever really know how to bait the hook well. And I think I have just quit caring enough to try.

[RRfireblade]

For the record I have no knowledge of any of this till my brother asked me what I knew about the PTP project , and I don't. :)

[RogueFactor]

Yeah big-e - You need to get some really cool and hip video games on your site. I mean I haven't played Tetris in years. Rogue better watch out cause all the traffic those video games are going to produce might crash a server. :rofl:

I would go back to pblegion just for those really cool games if it wasn't secretly owned/operated/and moderated by roguefactor. Oh wups, did I just let out the secret? :ninja:




Look at the pot calling the kettle black. Should I address you as roguefactor or legionarre?

LOL...shouldnt you be somewhere making more animated gifs?:spit_take

Thanks for the chuckle smooth...

[Steelrat]

This is the most juvenile crap I have seen in a while.

Yes, Rogue owns and runs PBL. If you don't like it, don't go there. And believe it or not, he is probably one of the best dealers when it comes to getting products out on time and in-spec.

Rogue, it's not necessary to play "gotcha" all the time with people.

Good grief.

[Smoothice]

LOL...shouldnt you be somewhere making more animated gifs?:spit_take



Wow. surprise surprise. No answer to my comments legionnare?

I guess you think we are all so stupid we will forget the question.

Thats a great pic btw. No wonder it is your desktop wallpaper.

[RogueFactor]

This is the most juvenile crap I have seen in a while.

Yes, Rogue owns and runs PBL. If you don't like it, don't go there. And believe it or not, he is probably one of the best dealers when it comes to getting products out on time and in-spec.

Rogue, it's not necessary to play "gotcha" all the time with people.

Good grief.

I agree, it is juvenile. I held out for as long as I can, its a new record for me.

I know its not necessary, but sometimes its fun. ;) Anything that can lighten up this thread that was meant to make G-Forces job harder is fine by me.

[Smoothice]

This is the most juvenile crap I have seen in a while.

Yes, Rogue owns and runs PBL. If you don't like it, don't go there. And believe it or not, he is probably one of the best dealers when it comes to getting products out on time and in-spec.

Rogue, it's not necessary to play "gotcha" all the time with people.

Good grief.

I have no problem with him running it. Its that fact that he openly deceived people and lied about who's site it was.

Why the smoke screen? Must be hiding something.

[RogueFactor]

Wow. surprise surprise. No answer to my comments legionnare?

I guess you think we are all so stupid we will forget the question.

Thats a great pic btw. No wonder it is your desktop wallpaper.
I dont think all are stupid, but if you are calling yourself stupid I wont argue with you :wow:


I have no problem with him running it. Its that fact that he openly deceived people and lied about who's site it was.

Why the smoke screen? Must be hiding something.

Conspiracy theories again?!?! Oh NOEZ!

Sorry dude, nobody was lied to by me.

[Steelrat]

I have no problem with him running it. Its that fact that he openly deceived people and lied about who's site it was.

Why the smoke screen? Must be hiding something.

Honestly, it's just him. He always struck me as a secretive person, and in the end, who really cares who runs it. I have an issue with some of the deletions and movement of threads that went on over there, but it's not like I haven't seen that here or PBN. Remember, it's just a place to post crap. What could he possibly be hiding that is so damned earth-shattering? IT'S A PAINTBALL FORUM.

I know some folks don't like him or PBL. Fine, don't go there. But do we keep having to go through the petty finger-pointing and name-calling everytime you guys and Rogue in up in the same thread?

[Smoothice]

Conspiracy theories again?!?! Oh NOEZ!

Sorry dude, nobody was lied to by me.

oh yeah?

You told me via AOL a couple times it wasn't your site.

Once you said you were just helping Big-e drive some traffic to his new site.

And you asked me for high res copies of my AO SoCal pics so that you could edit them for Big-E.

Its o.k if your lies run so deep you can't keep track of them any more rogu... er legionarre.

[Smoothice]

Honestly, it's just him. He always struck me as a secretive person, and in the end, who really cares who runs it. I have an issue with some of the deletions and movement of threads that went on over there, but it's not like I haven't seen that here or PBN. Remember, it's just a place to post crap. What could he possibly be hiding that is so damned earth-shattering? IT'S A PAINTBALL FORUM.

I know some folks don't like him or PBL. Fine, don't go there. But do we keep having to go through the petty finger-pointing and name-calling everytime you guys and Rogue in up in the same thread?

one day the wounds will heal :cheers:

Seriously though. I don't enjoy being lied to and used by anyone.

Do I have a problem with rogues products? NO

Do I have a problem with rogue? YES

[RogueFactor]

oh yeah?

You told me via AOL a couple times it wasn't your site.

Once you said you were just helping Big-e drive some traffic to his new site.

And you asked me for high res copies of my AO SoCal pics so that you could edit them for Big-E.

Its o.k if your lies run so deep you can't keep track of them any more rogu... er legionarre.

Youre either a liar, or have a bad memory. Is this one of those "I dont know the info" things again? I know my words, I choose them carefully. What you remember is not what was said....

And Im willing to prove you wrong, yet again. :clap: Lets put some money on this, otherwise the spanking Im about to give ya(again) isnt really worth my time.

[Smoothice]

Youre either a liar, or have a bad memory. Is this one of those "I dont know the info" things again? I know my words, I choose them carefully. What you remember is not what was said....

And Im willing to prove you wrong, yet again. :clap: Lets put some money on this, otherwise the spanking Im about to give ya(again) isnt really worth my time.

Proving me wrong publically is all the incentive you need.

So put up or shut up :nono:

I am curious how easily it will be for you to alter your chat log. I mean undercover modding and ownership of a paintball forum has probably prepared you well for this.

[Lohman446]

The whole was greater than the sum of all parts.... think about it

[Smoothice]

The whole was greater than the sum of all parts.... think about it

I'm in the middle of a second grade pissing contest and you are trying to make me think :confused: :rofl: :cheers:

[ThePixelGuru]

Well, let's get this back on track. Rabid's got a few interesting points, so let's go through them.

First, Garf is one guy. Clearly, he has the same amount of capitol to invest in the pneuframe project as, say, Microsoft.

Next, Garf did a preorder, and didn't pretend that he had a working prototype when he took preorders. Therefore, it's completely logical to assume that the pneuframe was just as complete and finished as an X-Box you could buy at GameStop.

Thirdly, just like consoles, you don't have to preorder to get the frame. Just walk into the local pro shop, I'm sure you'll see one sitting on the shelf that you can buy.

Also, consoles were a great choice to compare this to. It's not like the first release of X-Boxes had any issues, or crashed and stopped working after only a few hours of play time. That's why it's a great idea to jump in on these consoles as soon as they ignore enough problems to rush them into the stores in time for the holiday season.

But yeah, rabid is absolutely right. Ballers make no sense. Why on earth would people who are no longer involved in the industry and have no involvement with a preorder spend so much time whining about it? Sheesh.

:rolleyes:

[warbeak2099]

Why on earth would people who are no longer involved in the industry and have no involvement with a preorder spend so much time whining about it? Sheesh.


Exactly.

[tech-chan]

GOOD LORD! I have never been in such a immature thread in my life. We all know that crap happens, and the fac that Garf is being extremely cooperative and I would almost say chatty tells me that this is not a scam. Definetly poor business choices, but not enough to even big enough for me to think about making that freaking big of an anology.

To Rogue and Smooth:
Take your huge flaming ball of fury elsewhere, I love AO and will be on AO for as long as it is up, but you older members need to tone it down or take it elsewhere. I know this dos'nt belong in the freindly forum... And this is not "paintball news" either. We have all known about the problems involved in making custom peices of craftsmanship and hopefully understand that it is hard as all get out to actually get it going. Please take your war to pbn and piss off the little kiddies for me. this used to be a mature site for information and help, but you warriors are just dragging it down.

Rant ends.

[Smoothice]

To Rogue and Smooth:
Take your huge flaming ball of fury elsewhere, I love AO and will be on AO for as long as it is up, but you older members need to tone it down or take it elsewhere. I know this dos'nt belong in the freindly forum... And this is not "paintball news" either. We have all known about the problems involved in making custom peices of craftsmanship and hopefully understand that it is hard as all get out to actually get it going. Please take your war to pbn and piss off the little kiddies for me. this used to be a mature site for information and help, but you warriors are just dragging it down.

Rant ends.

Out of respect for AO and the other members of this great site I will let my rage go. This is my home and I don't want to be a contributer to its dimise. :cheers:

[tech-chan]

THank you smooth! Rogue?

[RogueFactor]

THank you smooth! Rogue?

Did you see me respond to his last post? I let it go on Page 2.

[tech-chan]

True, I just wanted comfirmation. Thank you.

[CoolHand]

It may not have been a productive thread, but damn was it an amusing one.

:ninja:

[going_home]

It may not have been a productive thread, but damn was it an amusing one.

:ninja:

He's still alive even after the hair of the dog !

:wow:

[jay8541]

I am respectfully pointing out the FACTS my thought may wander but they still are facts and my spelling can be atrocious

Originally Posted by Chronobreak
i am a wwa dealer, i have an obligation to make sure any of his or my customers are happy(within reason)

i dont recall me defending him, but as i said offering to help and find the problem if there is one.

RogueFactor

If you didnt take the order, you are not obligated to do anything. You do not openly criticize WWA for delays, but you are the first to openly criticize other companies for similarities. Dont know what you call that...but that is most certainly defending and supporting him in my book.


If you didnt take the order, you are not obligated to do anything.

This statement of yours is because you have no loyalties or consideration for any one except yourself. Also you proved that again with your cut throat back stabbing mentality towards Big Evil over on PBL.
Love the amount of traffic that has been over there on PBL since the down fall do to your methods again showing how alone you really are oops may want to stay on PBL where you are loved by all (9 members and 10 guests at any given time)
And I dont know who you are calling out for criticizing other people. Take a good look in the mirror.
And in your Book which would be eliquantly titled FACTS of unethical bussiness to cut throat SPECS you would always have the last word and minipulate everything said by others to make your self rightchess points


Rouge Factor[QUOTE]
Hey RRFireblade...I mean Zaqwert6 . Good to see you around Jay, incognito nonetheless. LOL

Hey Legionaire/ TMS I mean Rouge Not great to see you around SHAWN cut throat as always.


:clap: Again some set of go nads just picking apart at PTP you have no limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEvil
I dont know... considering that all of the members that abandoned pbl and came over I should get off my butt and get on that. Then again I have other things to do than sit in front of a PC 24hrs a day. Admittedly my privative software cant handle it all too well, but then again what good is having awesome web software when there is no one visiting?

Rogue factor

Thats the best you got? You really are slippin'

"Sorry boys"...

That is by far the best they got but again you have nothing and are nothing with out these guys here on the forums and you treat them like they are beneath you ,you are ridiculous and I have finally figured out why you will never make an AO meet and great, ( you wouldn't last without your key board and book of facts) These guys made you and they can break you as well watch your tongue you are not talking to some punk kids that will just stand for it and do nothing about .

I will make it my third part time job to see that you stay in line i will also continue to sell products here and intentionally under sell you on everything if i have to and lose money just to teach you a lesson. you really told the wrong guy to go F myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothice
Yeah big-e - You need to get some really cool and hip video games on your site. I mean I haven't played Tetris in years. Rogue better watch out cause all the traffic those video games are going to produce might crash a server.

I would go back to pblegion just for those really cool games if it wasn't secretly owned/operated/and moderated by roguefactor. Oh wups, did I just let out the secret?




Look at the pot calling the kettle black. Should I address you as roguefactor or legionarre?

RogueFactor

LOL...shouldnt you be somewhere making more animated gifs?

Thanks for the chuckle smooth...

Love how you avoid the Factual statement and add your unwitty comm everytimeent to get the last word

here is mine LOL.. shouldn't you be somewhere making up stories for where your next design came from (or who it came from originally)




Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelrat
This is the most juvenile crap I have seen in a while.

Yes, Rogue owns and runs PBL. If you don't like it, don't go there. And believe it or not, he is probably one of the best dealers when it comes to getting products out on time and in-spec.

Rogue, it's not necessary to play "gotcha" all the time with people.

Good grief.



I agree, it is juvenile. I held out for as long as I can, its a new record for me.

I know its not necessary, but sometimes its fun. Anything that can lighten up this thread that was meant to make G-Forces job harder is fine by me.


of coarse this is juvinile no doubt
You know your comments do nothing but get you into trouble Shawn
And of coarse i see that you dont care about anyone elses attempt at making a name for themselves with different product ideas. you are only in it for yourself :nono:



Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothice
I have no problem with him running it. Its that fact that he openly deceived people and lied about who's site it was.

Why the smoke screen? Must be hiding something.



Conspiracy theories again?!?! Oh NOEZ!

Sorry dude, nobody was lied to by me.


Smoothice is totally correct and try me shawn i have All the facts from the man him Self along with much more that i will not openly share because i am not like you i actually still have a little respect for yuo as a dealer and a whole lot of sympathy


Rogue factor
And Im willing to prove you wrong, yet again. Lets put some money on this, otherwise the spanking Im about to give ya(again) isnt really worth my time.


All about the $ and getting the last word that is all it is about for you have some AGD pride and not be so self centered all the time


Quote:
Originally Posted by tech-chan
THank you smooth! Rogue?


Rogue factor
Did you see me respond to his last post? I let it go on Page 2.

No cry baby
And i brought it to the third




Anxiously awaiting your reply and yes this is childish but i will continue to play this game with you untill you grow up

[tech-chan]

Oh heck. I give up. Rogue, go away. Everyone else, ignore him. His posts no longer exist in your world.

[RogueFactor]

No cry baby
And i brought it to the third


When you learn how to use rail bushings, lets talk about ethics and specs. ;)

[jay8541]

When you learn how to use rail bushings, lets talk about ethics and specs. ;)


I made a mistake offered to fix it all for free in a timely manor without just getting mad and offering a full refund just to avoid saying i messed up


and when you touch a peice of machinery you let me know


and to you that whole post of mine and this is what you have wow just wow

[nmib]

wtf is wrong with you people?

[RogueFactor]

I made a mistake offered to fix it all for free in a timely manor without just getting mad and offering a full refund just to avoid saying i messed up


and when you touch a peice of machinery you let me know


and to you
Nah, you told people they didnt need them. Ethics anyone?

[Chronobreak]

Out of respect for AO and the other members of this great site I will let my rage go. This is my home and I don't want to be a contributer to its dimise. :cheers:

agreed, there is much i would like to say and get into as the thread goes off topic.

my fear is not making a mod or a dealer angry but getting tom fed up and having him push the red button on the forum putting ALL of this fun to rest :ninja:

[BigEvil]

WOW. Who would have thought that sean would ever get the same kinda response when he posts that Rabbid does. Epic.


Hey Rabbid, PM incoming.

[jay8541]

Nah, you told people they didnt need them. Ethics anyone?



i said that because do you infact need the rail bushing to operate the gun no you do not that it hat isaid

And i aslo said that yes it should be used and that i amde a mistake how can i fix it


again you are not going to have the last word on this and ethics plays no part in my actions do to the fact i openly staed i made a mistake i was wrong, and that you should always use the bushing and that i did say which is a fact that you do not need the rail bushing to operate a mag you would know if you ever played a real game and not just on the computer

[CoolHand]

Nah, you told people they didnt need them. Ethics anyone?

You do realize that a Mag will function just fine without that rail bushing . . . . right?

It's just there to keep the frame and rail aligned should you decide to remove the valve in a field strip situation.

My loaner classic as of this moment does not have a rail bushing in it, and it functions just fine and dandy. It's a PITA to put together the first time you do it, but it's far from non-functional.

The bushing could be deleted entirely if one were to reduce the rear hole in the rail to 0.201" ID to match the front. Or, the rear screw could be replaced by a shoulder bolt of proper length and the hole in the rear of the frame enlarged to 0.250" ID.

There's always more than one way to skin a cat, it's just that some ways include more claws than others. :ninja:

EDIT: I do find it kind of humorous how you're trying to turn a case of simple technical oversight into a matter of questionable ethics.

To err is human.

To try and portray such as evil is political.

To laugh mockingly (mostly) from the sidelines is divine.

;)

[RogueFactor]

i said that because do you infact need the rail bushing to operate the gun no you do not that it hat isaid

And i aslo said that yes it should be used and that i amde a mistake how can i fix it


again you are not going to have the last word on this and ethics plays no part in my actions do to the fact i openly staed i made a mistake i was wrong, and that you should always use the bushing and that i did say which is a fact that you do not need the rail bushing to operate a mag you would know if you ever played a real game and not just on the computer
LOL, you are contradicting yourself Jay. You told people they didnt need them, but said they should be used?

Yep, thats totally ethical. :tard: . Stating that you are wrong after the fact doesnt negate the ethics of the situation. Sorry.

[BigEvil]

You do realize that a Mag will function just fine without that rail bushing . . . . right?

It's just there to keep the frame and rail aligned should you decide to remove the valve in a field strip situation.

My loaner classic as of this moment does not have a rail bushing in it, and it functions just fine and dandy. It's a PITA to put together the first time you do it, but it's far from non-functional.

The bushing could be deleted entirely if one were to reduce the rear hole in the rail to 0.201" ID to match the front. Or, the rear screw could be replaced by a shoulder bolt of proper length and the hole in the rear of the frame enlarged to 0.250" ID.

There's always more than one way to skin a cat, it's just that some ways include more claws than others. :ninja:


D'oh - the facts... they sting.

[tech-chan]

I will not be back in this thread. Rogue=Immaturity. AO=Group of friends.
It's time to cast the clown out.

[Ninjeff]

My mag has been running fine without a rail bushing.

[RogueFactor]

You do realize that a Mag will function just fine without that rail bushing . . . . right?
You do know that a mag will function just fine without the trigger frame? It doesnt mean I will sell someone marker without one and tell them it isnt needed.


It's just there to keep the frame and rail aligned should you decide to remove the valve in a field strip situation.
It is there to keep it aligned...when the gun is firing too.


The bushing could be deleted entirely if one were to reduce the rear hole in the rail to 0.201" ID to match the front. Or, the rear screw could be replaced by a shoulder bolt of proper length and the hole in the rear of the frame enlarged to 0.250" ID.
Hold up. You mean you cant delete the bushing entirely without changing the specs? The bushing is needed? I think thats what Ive been saying all along. :p

[RogueFactor]

D'oh - the facts... they sting.

LOL...too bad they arent the facts.

[BigEvil]

LOL...too bad they arent the facts.


Two people in this thread had stated that their mags work without rail bushings. Are you calling them liars?

[RogueFactor]

Two people in this thread had stated that their mags work without rail bushings. Are you calling them liars?
AGD says you need it. Are you calling them liars?

Even a broken watch is right twice a day...

[BigEvil]

AGD says you need it. Are you calling them liars?

Even a broken watch is right twice a day...


No one in this thread questioned what AGD said. I questioned if you called them liars.

A broken watch may be right twice a day, but B.S. stinks 24/7

[nmib]

AGD says you need it. Are you calling them liars?

Yes. And Tom Kaye and his specs arnt god's law. My mag works fine with out a bushing also. Jesus, Shawn the oven is hot stop it.

[Coralis]

man did this thread turn out to be a pot stirrer , with epeens no less ...... sheesh

[michbich]

One of my mags works fine without the bushing as well.

[RogueFactor]

No one in this thread questioned what AGD said. I questioned if you called them liars.

A broken watch may be right twice a day, but B.S. stinks 24/7

LOL, youre telling me! I cant count how many times you told me Jay was wrong for saying they didnt need bushings and you even made a GIF image about it. I also remember all the times you made fun of him, and the things you said about him and his wife.

Heck, I even remember when you made this to make fun of him(when you were angry at him of course!). Things Id never know had you not told me...

[going_home]

Yes. And Tom Kaye and his specs arnt god's law. My mag works fine with out a bushing also. Jesus, Shawn the oven is hot stop it.

No let it go....maybe the AO Moderation Team will tune this thread up a bit heheh .

:tard:

[Smoothice]

I would like to take a second to thank all of the after market mag suppliers.

Jay8541
Coolhand
RRfireblade
Xmagterror

Sadly everybody on that above list Roguefactor has tried to tear down.

Some how I doubt that is a coincidence. Competition is good for AO but bad for roguefactor.

[going_home]

I would like to take a second to thank all of the after market mag suppliers.

Jay8541
Coolhand
RRfireblade
Xmagterror

Sadly everybody on that above list Roguefactor has tried to tear down.

Some how I doubt that is a coincidence. Competition is good for AO but bad for roguefactor.

Wow :wow:

[RogueFactor]

I would like to take a second to thank all of the after market mag suppliers.

Jay8541
Coolhand
RRfireblade
Xmagterror

Sadly everybody on that above list Roguefactor has tried to tear down.

Some how I doubt that is a coincidence. Competition is good for AO but bad for roguefactor.

jay8541 forgot to tell you I did help him.

But you also forgot dealers I did help like Tunaman, FragTek, matteusz, and a few others I am failing to recollect at the moment.

[nmib]

jay8541 forgot to tell you I did help him.

But you also forgot dealers I did help like Tunaman, FragTek, matteusz, and a few others I am failing to recollect at the moment.

dont forget the ones with out websites.

[BigEvil]

See, the thing is that I tell Jay the same things. If his stuff was so aweful then you wouldnt be trying so hard to tear him down.


Nice pic. Its being made into a banner for Tunaball especially for Jay.. You coming out to see it in person?

ANd you convienently side stepped the question about calling all of these people liars by trying to start some trouble between my and Jay. I will let everyone else make up their minds about that.

For someone who preached to me for months about how bad AO is, and how there are so many bad apples here ruining the bunch - its funny how now the consensus is that you are the bad apple.

[jay8541]

Dude first off Scott can say whatever he wants about me see we are friends but you dont get what that means to have real friends.



And dont you ever ever talk about my wife or refference her at all again no limits



You have helped me ( realize how a business should be run)

You gave joe some specs that were comen knowledge no secrets pat yourself on the back

[BigEvil]

Dude first off Scott can say whatever he wants about me see we are friends but you dont get what that means to have real friends.




Yeah dude. I have greatly appreciated your generosity and all of your help with everything you have done for Tunaball. Its a damn shame you guys are 3 hours away. I could go for some turkish food.

(Doesnt mean im not going to keep messing with you though. ) :rofl:




Hey everyone.. I found a great site with Tetris on it. I love that game. I think when im done playing im going to go take my rail bushings out of all of my mags.

<cracks open another beer>

[RogueFactor]

dont forget the ones with out websites.

Yeah, there are brick and mortar dealers I help out too.

[Old School 626]

YOU all owe me $$$! I read this entire thread and let me just say that it's 25 minutes of my life I'll never get back!

Happy St. Patrick's day.

[nmib]

Yeah, there are brick and mortar dealers I help out too.

Seriously... who are you fooling with that comment sean besides your self. :confused:

[BigEvil]

YOU all owe me $$$! I read this entire thread and let me just say that it's 25 minutes of my life I'll never get back!

You got that right


Happy St. Patrick's day.

Yeah man. You too. Everyone have a good one. I will let you all have any last words. PEACE-OUT.

<cracks open another beer>

[halB]

It is there to keep it aligned...when the gun is firing too.


I could've SWORN that the field strip screw is the main thing keeping it all aligned. You know, since it screws into the valve. You know, since it's a mechanical connection? You know this right? Wow, I didn't know who the bad guy in this thread was, but I sure found out! And man is bashing him EEEEEASY!!!


And dont you ever ever talk about my wife or refference her at all again no limits

Let me help you out dude. This is a little fireman's trick. If you SAY something annoys you, then you've only doomed yourself to be constantly haunted by it. Punctuation helps too.

[Smoothice]

dont forget the ones with out websites.

yeah lets all ask cyberave how helpful roguefactor has been to him.

[RogueFactor]

See, the thing is that I tell Jay the same things. If his stuff was so aweful then you wouldnt be trying so hard to tear him down.


Nice pic. Its being made into a banner for Tunaball especially for Jay.. You coming out to see it in person?
LOL. Tear him down? He showed up here, probably after you spoke with him.

I laugh, I remember you told me you were only being friendly with Jay because he was donating the $1000 to Tunaball. So you had to be in his good graces. And it is awful, and its only the tip. Its interesting how the people you are now friendly with were all the ones you talked smack on. All the crap you talked on Beemer, Army, CoolHand, RRFireblade, rabidchihauhau, XmagTerror, ...this list is long. Your own teammates like HomeLandDefender. Rudz and Behemoth. And these are guys you call friends. Youve even talked smack on your own family and your wife. And you are going to preach to me? LOL.

Those you treat well depend on the way the wind is blowing on any given day.


ANd you convienently side stepped the question about calling all of these people liars by trying to start some trouble between my and Jay. I will let everyone else make up their minds about that.

For someone who preached to me for months about how bad AO is, and how there are so many bad apples here ruining the bunch - its funny how now the consensus is that you are the bad apple.

LOL. I didnt call all of these people anything. Those are words you are attempting to put in my mouth, which is why the question is ignored. And the trouble between you and Jay has been there long before you and I ever began speaking.

Nobody preached to you. The stuff said about AO was stuff you said, heck I can quote you if you like. Dont try to make it out after the fact that you had good things to say about this place...of course until afterward when you came back. :rofl:

[Smoothice]

someone please save a copy of this thread before anything happens to it. If I knew how I would.

The truth is in these pages.

[jay8541]

I could've SWORN that the field strip screw is the main thing keeping it all aligned. You know, since it screws into the valve. You know, since it's a mechanical connection? You know this right? Wow, I didn't know who the bad guy in this thread was, but I sure found out! And man is bashing him EEEEEASY!!!



Let me help you out dude. This is a little fireman's trick. If you SAY something annoys you, then you've only doomed yourself to be constantly haunted by it. Punctuation helps too.


oh man i know he does it to get me going but It does not matter do to the fact i wont stop anyways but you are 100% correct lol and anything he says would aggitate me enough to speak up

i know I can not spell and have many run on sentences lol

[RogueFactor]

Seriously... who are you fooling with that comment sean besides your self. :confused:

There is no need to fool anyone. Its the truth.

[RogueFactor]

I could've SWORN that the field strip screw is the main thing keeping it all aligned. You know, since it screws into the valve. You know, since it's a mechanical connection? You know this right? Wow, I didn't know who the bad guy in this thread was, but I sure found out! And man is bashing him EEEEEASY!!!

You mean, the bushing that keeps the field strip screw from moving?

[CoolHand]

Bwahahahahah!!!!!!!!!

Man oh man, I had an EPIC weekend at UMR during St Pat's, and now there's an EPIC free for all thread on AO that's got mud slingin' in every direction.

This is like one of those 50 guy brawls you run across sometimes and just want to wade right into (or at least I do :ninja: ).

Glad I happened to have my safety glasses on though, that mud stings if it gets in your eyes (plus I kinda look like a raccoon now :wow: ).

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

[Lohman446]

someone please save a copy of this thread before anything happens to it. If I knew how I would.

The truth is in these pages.


The truth has been on these boards, in various forms, for years now.

[nmib]

The truth has been on these boards, in various forms, for years now.

that is the first thing EVER ive read from you that i agree with. damn.. this thread is epic.

you have just earned your 7th useful post :cheers:

[michbich]

You mean, the bushing that keeps the field strip screw from moving?

As far as i know, if you have wings, it's not going anywhere.

[thomas]

This is awesome! Rabid makes a thinly veiled post complaining about pneuframes, Rogue pipes up just to spew some of his holier than thou BS and gets called on it by the masses. Classic! :D :dance:

Rogue I hope your flash game site works out, sorry you're to busy to actually get a site going that shows actual products for sale. :confused:

[going_home]

Bwahahahahah!!!!!!!!!

Man oh man, I had an EPIC weekend at UMR during St Pat's, and now there's an EPIC free for all thread on AO that's got mud slingin' in every direction.

This is like one of those 50 guy brawls you run across sometimes and just want to wade right into (or at least I do :ninja: ).

Glad I happened to have my safety glasses on though, that mud stings if it gets in your eyes (plus I kinda look like a raccoon now :wow: ).

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Who's taking bets on what time tonight this thread gets locked heheh ?

:tard:

[CoolHand]

You mean, the bushing that keeps the field strip screw from moving?

The bushing doesn't stop the field strip screw from moving.

Am I going to have to draw you a visual aid?

The valve and rail locate to one another via that great huge radius groove running the length of the rail. Bushing or no, when you clamp those two pieces together, they line up.

The frame is located to the rail by two screws, the front and the rear, and the rail bushing (to keep things lined up when the rear screw is gone during a field strip operation).

If you remove the rail bushing, the frame still locates to the rail by those two screws, in exactly the same way it did before, but it all goes pear shaped if you remove the field strip screw.

So, basically it all hinges around the fit of the field strip screw in the rear frame hole.

Q: Should you use a rail bushing?
A: Yes, it makes assembly a lot easier.

Q: Will a mag function without one?
A: Yes, it will.

Q: Would I suggest a first time mag owner ditch his rail bushing to defy "the man"?
A: No, I would not (but I still say Damn the Man!).

Q: Is saying that a mag will function without a rail bushing false?
A: No, it's not.

Q: Is saying that a mag will function without a rail bushing unethical?
A: What? No, why did you even ask that? WTF is wrong with you?

Q: Has it been a lot of fun to poke Rogue and Rabid a little bit on a stormy day in March?
A: You betcha!

Q: Will I care if I "win" or "lose" this discussion, or even get the last word?
A: Not a bit. And there is not a damned thing you can do to change that.

Bwhahahaha!

:dance: :dance: :dance:

[RogueFactor]

This is awesome! Rabid makes a thinly veiled post complaining about pneuframes, Rogue pipes up just to spew some of his holier than thou BS and gets called on it by the masses. Classic! :D :dance:

I agree. Lets hope it doesnt get locked :clap: .

[Mongoose]

Rogue....how long is it gonna be for viper pro triggers????

i've heard a couple weeks for the last four months!!!

with rogue here PBL is missing half of their existing members

[Mongoose]

I agree. Lets hope it doesnt get locked :clap: .

oh you dont have to worry.....there are no ninja mods here :ninja:

[teufelhunden]

someone please save a copy of this thread before anything happens to it. If I knew how I would.

The truth is in these pages.

PDF'd up until the post directly before this.

[halB]

You mean, the bushing that keeps the field strip screw from moving?


Do you even understand the words coming out of my computer??
///chris tucker

"but it all goes pear shaped"
That is a beautiful metaphor CoolHand. I would've said something like, "it would look like a peace sign opening up." I guess that makes me a hippy. :(

[Smoothice]

PDF'd up until the post directly before this.

:hail:

[Mongoose]

Don't be clever. You knew what you were doing trying to lump me in with Rogue. Just like you know what you are doing with your reference to "keep that a secret." Just delete your reference to me, please, and be done with it.

As a sign of goodwill i will remove your name from my post......didnt mean for you to take it the wrong way.

i understand....i wouldnt wanna be lumped in with rogue either

[punkncat]

Oh man....just WOW!!!

Rogue, I am not going to pretend that I like your methods. The last time I got into a "debate" with you on your site, posts got parsed, things re-arranged and the whole meaning of the thing changed to suit your pov.
Unfortunately for you, that is not happening here, and I think enough people have figured out the method to your bull :cuss: .

In that you really did come to my rescue in the pneu frame thread at one point, and I haven't forgotten that in spite of later events, I am going to give you a tip. Whether you take it or not is certainly your perogative.

You are making no friends this way. It seems that every time you get on your soapbox things come out that just, well I am going to stop there. The best thing I could suggest to you at this point is to stop arguing. Get back to the drawing board, back to the machinists you work with and continue to turn out what I still feel are high quality products. Leave the other cottage industries alone and allow your product, not your mouth and what you evidently think is witty to speak for you.

I am sure like so many other things I and other have said, you will find some way to pick into this and find fault. As I said before do yourself the favor and don't.

[RogueFactor]

Q: Will I care if I "win" or "lose" this discussion, or even get the last word?
A: Not a bit. And there is not a damned thing you can do to change that.

Bwhahahaha!

:dance: :dance: :dance:
I couldnt agree more!


SNIP
LOL. Who is the Kettle?

[MANN]

As for the rail bushing. This is why it would make a marker not work

The rail bushing is a spacer that will keep the valve just a little bit closer to the body. There are times when a valve is moved too far back (we are talking thousandths) that the sear is unable to trip the on/off. This is more likely in the rt/emag style on/offs due to the thin pin. AM/mm on/off pins are thick enough that the bushing is not really needed.

Saying all of that. I have a box of rail bushings, and my xmag last weekend went bushingless. :p

carry on
:cheers:

[punkncat]

LOL. Who is the Kettle?

I know, that has been your argument all along, and I agree there have been times that I started crap simply for something to do. There is a difference though. I do it for entertainment, and it can't hurt my business.

[Ninjeff]

dont forget the ones with out websites.


Yowza!

:wow:

[halB]

I do it for entertainment, and it can't hurt my business.

That right thur's what we call a "finishing" quote.

[Army]

Thanks to all for degrading this thread into an internet cesspool. Too bad some of you stayed in the shallow end....

Thread closed. Army