View Full Version : Sorry Tom, Mags are old tech time for us to all move along
Chronobreak
03-17-2008, 08:27 AM
I dont usualy do this but heres a link to the dreaded(by some) nation in the WDP (aps) section where a WDP certified tech is making some rather inacurate claims.
ive tried showing him the light but he doesnt seem to get it.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=45555168#post45555168
--im not saying my numbers are correct, i looked in the data thread and couldnt find the on ball pressure graphs :( so i was going from my vague memory of them.
mostpeople
03-17-2008, 08:39 AM
Wow...
BigEvil
03-17-2008, 08:43 AM
My brain hurts from some of that. Good Job Chrono. :cheers:
trevorjk
03-17-2008, 09:29 AM
man i JUST woke up and im having my AO breakfast. so therefor my brain is completely dead to the elements right now. and that thread still makes me feel stupid because of the ignorance.
/goes back to cinnamon toast crunch
txaggie08
03-17-2008, 09:36 AM
This is the same guy(the op on that thread) who informed me his G7's, no barrels and basically bone stock, where worth 450, but my 05 timmy wasn't worth more than 200$ "cuz ur gun wuz new wen DM4's wur new"(that's what he told me...quoted pretty darn closely). It's REALLY a shame such a nice pari of angels belong to such a retard..
Of course this is also the man who claims to be " too superstitious to shoot an open bolt gun playing back". Yeah...wow
punkncat
03-17-2008, 12:56 PM
Man, that dude is an airtech too?????
I had to sound off on that one. What a :cuss: !
/goes back to cinnamon toast crunch
kinda creepy we have the same morning routine.....
/goes upstairs to get another bowl.
mr doo doo
03-17-2008, 01:24 PM
argh, im becoming sick of the thread starter. he starts wayyyy too many pointless threads about mags, and never commits into buying one. in addition, causes arguments within his thread. glad to see the maggers uniting and showing what AGD is made off. :headbang:
txaggie08
03-17-2008, 02:27 PM
nm....
Shane-O-Mac
03-17-2008, 03:45 PM
Why didnt you guys just link this thread? http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34429
That shows the on ball pressure of the Emag, and others. That guy in PBN has no clue about Tom's tests and what they showed. But I am sure he would discredit them somehow............
They said that guy carried a lot of weight around pbn. Why? Just because he's a certified air tech? My boss was a certified tech for every gun, and that guy never knew SQUAT about paintball guns. He learned more running the store than he did from those courses. Anyone with a couple hundred dollars and a weekend to kill can become a certified tech.
AGDRetro
03-17-2008, 04:32 PM
Senseless dribble. The :cry: of an idiot carrys little weight with me. People whom have opinions about guns they have never owned shouldn't matter to those of us with a brain...
hockeytown
03-17-2008, 04:43 PM
Why didnt you guys just link this thread? http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34429
That shows the on ball pressure of the Emag, and others. That guy in PBN has no clue about Tom's tests and what they showed. But I am sure he would discredit them somehow............
According to that guy it would not be credible because AGD did the test, and they just want money.
PBCapo
03-17-2008, 04:50 PM
Does someone wanna fill me in on the energy losses involved in shooting a paintball. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, in an ideal world, it shouldn't matter what pressure you run your gun at, because at a lower pressure it will just take more air out, until you have an equivalent amount of energy as you would from a shorter charge of high pressure air. Is it just that the LP guns have less turbulence and what not so they use less air/are more efficient?
Hilltop Customs
03-17-2008, 05:13 PM
thats the reason the only place I go on pbn is the classifieds.
I cant believe he called paintball a "technical field", I didnt know using gas pressure to propel a ball down a tube is technical. I wish it was still open.....Id just like to ask him what great advancements have occurred in this "technical field" since 2004(as he said it). :confused:
PBCapo HP and LP wont really make a difference in single shot efficiency.....(assuming no wasted out the end of barrel)it takes the same amount of energy to propel a paintball to the same velocity no matter what your using to accelerate it.
the only REAL benifit; that i know of, to LP is being able to shoot deeper into a tank.
txaggie08
03-17-2008, 05:22 PM
Lower pressure requires a higher volume of air to generate the same amount of force on an object(is how it was explained to me).
I do wish that the mag could have eventually progressed along slightly divergent lines, one remaining as the xvalve is, and one designed to run to potential at about 500-600 psi input.
I had a friend, who is a recently graduated mechanical engineer, look at thone for me one day. I asked him if he believed it would be possible to lower the operating pressure of the gun, without significantly hurting the efficiency. The number he came up with was right around 500psi through internal modification of the basic valve design. I think he expected about 400 more shots before drop off started. He said below that and it would kill the efficiency, and start diminishing returns(loss of any snap in the trigger). He said he was pretty sure it would work, but would have to have the time to test and work on the design.
He was also highly impressed with the valve I showed him(a blue xvalve).His comments where"it's built to a standard I wouldn't expect from a paintball gun.....more like something in an aircraft". Someday he and I will have to get together and try some of the things he wanted to do, he had an idea for using a different battery and solenoid(some brand new noid he was using in one of his projects...), and maybe doing some machine work on the valve....maybe someday :D
thats the reason the only place I go on pbn is the classifieds.
I cant believe he called paintball a "technical field",
Especially since modeling compressible fluids is more of an art than a science. If we really knew what went on inside a paintball gun when it fired, if we REALLY knew it through math and what not, then Mr. Kaye never would have had to have used cameras and powder, would he?
Darn it! I was going to post but the thread was closed.
The brilliance that is PBN....
AGD
Chronobreak
03-17-2008, 07:23 PM
il open it if you really want to post :D just say the word
Pump Scout
03-17-2008, 07:41 PM
They said that guy carried a lot of weight around pbn.
Eh, not exactly. I treat everyone there the same until they prove to me they are either something spectacularly great, or someone to keep an eye on.
Darn it! I was going to post but the thread was closed.
The brilliance that is PBN....
AGD
Hi Tom! I would have let it run further, but it was derailed tremendously from the original topic.... which the original poster should have known better than to post in the first place. :tard: Like Chronobreak said, if you want to pop something in there, feel free to get in touch with either of us.
I have to agree, it's crud like that thread (among others) that give PBN a sullied name. Doing what I can to keep the place clean and "taking out the trash".
Big Dexter fan! :D
Dark Side
03-17-2008, 07:42 PM
il open it if you really want to post :D just say the word
Hell, can I ask for him? Do it!
sdlm_
03-17-2008, 07:45 PM
What amazes me was his response to the statement that 04 guns were not much different than 08 guns....... I mean we all buy into hype a bit, but my god this guy has it bad.
Makes me wonder why those Nelson action markers are not just blowing paint up since they run at such a high pressure, stupid CCI didn't they know that their markers all deform paint like crazy?!?
Seriously though, This guy is not understanding much about any of the physics that are happening. I am almost surprised he didn't hit us with that whole "Low pressure gives flatter trajectory crap".
I don't care what anyone says an old Airtech matrix with a decent board, shoots just as well as any DM8. Markers have not made much "Progress" and don't get me wrong I love Angels and I own two, but they still haven't caught up to AKA in 2003, so how are new guns that much better?
SummaryJudgement
03-17-2008, 07:52 PM
Owwwww.....
Now I can't focus on work after reading that.......huh?
:(
michbich
03-17-2008, 07:56 PM
I was expecting a quote along the lines of the famous Gardner thread. Wich one would you prefer between the 2: getting hit and trown 100 yards by a speeding truck or getting dragged 100 yards. That had to be the weakest LP/HP argument i had ever heard.
LoonWulf
03-17-2008, 08:18 PM
What amazes me was his response to the statement that 04 guns were not much different than 08 guns....... I mean we all buy into hype a bit, but my god this guy has it bad.
Makes me wonder why those Nelson action markers are not just blowing paint up since they run at such a high pressure, stupid CCI didn't they know that their markers all deform paint like crazy?!?
Seriously though, This guy is not understanding much about any of the physics that are happening. I am almost surprised he didn't hit us with that whole "Low pressure gives flatter trajectory crap".
I don't care what anyone says an old Airtech matrix with a decent board, shoots just as well as any DM8. Markers have not made much "Progress" and don't get me wrong I love Angels and I own two, but they still haven't caught up to AKA in 2003, so how are new guns that much better?
SOOO true about the matrix, and about Angels...unfortunatly the latest version of the angel is a step backwards from the G7.
Indignant
03-17-2008, 08:25 PM
Spell check, man. Don't you have Firefox?
ps. Of course guns haven't evolved a ton operation wise in the last few years. Things began to get refined and continue to do so, mostly by becoming smaller, lighter, and faster in the paintball industry. Once a design is hammered out, worked on and produced there isn't a ton of major stuff to do to the operation. The cars of today are much more refined than those of the past, but most of them do many of the same things.
Danterwhoo
03-17-2008, 09:34 PM
After reading the pbnation thread. All I have to say is there are some super smart guys and I'll feel stupid just being in the chat room and I'm graduating to be a doctor in 2 years!!!
Ninjeff
03-17-2008, 11:24 PM
I was intrigued by how offensive he seemed to find the going price for X-Mags. Apparently, there is something he failed to see.
What sells the XMags is not them being "the best gun in the world" its passion. The passion that went into the design, the upkeep, the community, etc etc. Its a classic muscle car.
Its the same reason people drop ENORMOUS sums of cash on a genuine classic say.....68 Camaro (in perfect condition) vs a new fancy pants vette. Sure sure, maybe the vette has better track times, handling, gas milage, grip, steering, air conditioning blah blah blah. But there is just something about the classics.....
Indignant
03-17-2008, 11:31 PM
people like them. there aren't a ton of them. there aren't new versions to drive down prices.
supply and demand
Beemer
03-18-2008, 12:49 AM
il open it if you really want to post :D just say the word
Thats cool, but Poppycock. Someone show that guy this thread. If he doesnt already have a screen name here[which I bet he does] tell him to get one and he can converse with us HERE on the topic at hand.
Then we can all go together and get him a bottle of Heinz. Heinz catch up. :spit_take
Indignant
03-18-2008, 12:58 AM
alright, high fives all around, AO reigns superior once more!
yeah!
Hilltop Customs
03-18-2008, 03:34 AM
Thats cool, but Poppycock. Someone show that guy this thread. If he doesnt already have a screen name here[which I bet he does] tell him to get one and he can converse with us HERE on the topic at hand.
Then we can all go together and get him a bottle of Heinz. Heinz catch up. :spit_take
But you have to consider the majority of people on this site have some clue and wont accept the bs he puts out there. He probably knows this, and wont come for this reason. But then again hes a certified airtech.....hes probably 100% correct in his mind :tard:
Chrishew09
03-18-2008, 07:01 AM
Good job guys, just more senseless dribble.
Mongoose
03-18-2008, 07:02 AM
I was intrigued by how offensive he seemed to find the going price for X-Mags. Apparently, there is something he failed to see.
What sells the XMags is not them being "the best gun in the world" its passion. The passion that went into the design, the upkeep, the community, etc etc. Its a classic muscle car.
Its the same reason people drop ENORMOUS sums of cash on a genuine classic say.....68 Camaro (in perfect condition) vs a new fancy pants vette. Sure sure, maybe the vette has better track times, handling, gas milage, grip, steering, air conditioning blah blah blah. But there is just something about the classics.....
very well said.......dont forget, the classics were built to last :cheers:
Mrturd
03-18-2008, 04:02 PM
Haha, looks as if you guys finally got to meet the "Hitler" of Swedish paintball. :clap: I have had some hefty arguments with this guy on paintball.se (Sweden’s biggest paintball forum) and it’s just impossible to "win". To make things even worse he has the help of his brother on that forum :p
This guy got in a conversation with the people who designed the Pikkadoll marker and started arguing about the board, even though the guy he talked to was an electrical engineer, he wouldn't be persuaded.
The sad thing is that too many people listen to his biased opinions because he never stops arguing.
AnthonyDStone
03-18-2008, 04:31 PM
Lower pressure requires a higher volume of air to generate the same amount of force on an object(is how it was explained to me).
I do wish that the mag could have eventually progressed along slightly divergent lines, one remaining as the xvalve is, and one designed to run to potential at about 500-600 psi input.
I had a friend, who is a recently graduated mechanical engineer, look at thone for me one day. I asked him if he believed it would be possible to lower the operating pressure of the gun, without significantly hurting the efficiency. The number he came up with was right around 500psi through internal modification of the basic valve design. I think he expected about 400 more shots before drop off started. He said below that and it would kill the efficiency, and start diminishing returns(loss of any snap in the trigger). He said he was pretty sure it would work, but would have to have the time to test and work on the design.
He was also highly impressed with the valve I showed him(a blue xvalve).His comments where"it's built to a standard I wouldn't expect from a paintball gun.....more like something in an aircraft". Someday he and I will have to get together and try some of the things he wanted to do, he had an idea for using a different battery and solenoid(some brand new noid he was using in one of his projects...), and maybe doing some machine work on the valve....maybe someday :D
Always have to consider weight of bolt,energy lost from friction or springs in the bolt cycling.HP or LP,Its all relative.
Tony :rolleyes:
SummaryJudgement
03-18-2008, 04:54 PM
I was intrigued by how offensive he seemed to find the going price for X-Mags. Apparently, there is something he failed to see.
What sells the XMags is not them being "the best gun in the world" its passion. The passion that went into the design, the upkeep, the community, etc etc. Its a classic muscle car.
Its the same reason people drop ENORMOUS sums of cash on a genuine classic say.....68 Camaro (in perfect condition) vs a new fancy pants vette. Sure sure, maybe the vette has better track times, handling, gas milage, grip, steering, air conditioning blah blah blah. But there is just something about the classics.....
Agreed!
PLUS the fact that you can't just get an X-mag. There are how many DMs , Timmies, or Egos floating around that will be worth less than half their price in less than a year? And there are only so many X-mags to go around........or Kartas, or Dallaras, or anything else rare. How many of a "one-of XXX" bodies are floating around for those markers? And how much would they cost compared to stock bodies?
I don't know, I'd stand up against a horde of "newer" markers with my X-mag, e-mags, or even my mech-LVL10'd-ULT'd-Xvalved-Dallara anytime :cheers:
I'm not saying I'd be the best player on the field, just that I wouldn't feel outgunned. There is a diference..........
:cheers:
The sad thing is that too many people listen to his biased opinions because he never stops arguing.
I never stop arguing but nobody listens to me! I guess the swedes seem trustworthy...
B-Pow
03-19-2008, 08:35 AM
I never stop arguing but nobody listens to me! I guess the swedes seem trustworthy...
Trustworthy and sexy...sweedish chicks are made of win. :D
And I have seen my girlfriend stare at pictures of maximus Lindquist in my magizines... :rolleyes:
stupid sexy sweedes... :spit_take
AltogetherAndrews
03-22-2008, 11:23 AM
I think this Färgbollen character has quite the presence on Swedish PB message boards, if I recall correctly from my time posting on those. I don't know the first thing about paintball tech so I can't say anything about that, but I can say that Swedes, especially in the paintball row, are notoriously gaga over shiny new things, and subsequently shiny "new" tech.
Haha, looks as if you guys finally got to meet the "Hitler" of Swedish paintball. :clap: I have had some hefty arguments with this guy on paintball.se (Sweden’s biggest paintball forum) and it’s just impossible to "win". To make things even worse he has the help of his brother on that forum :p
This guy got in a conversation with the people who designed the Pikkadoll marker and started arguing about the board, even though the guy he talked to was an electrical engineer, he wouldn't be persuaded.
The sad thing is that too many people listen to his biased opinions because he never stops arguing.
Ah, so you know more about him than I do then. I just saw him in virtually every thread I browsed, and assumed he was some sort of well respected character. Turns out maybe he was just well known? :)
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