Invert Mini Regulator Discussion

[trevorjk]

ok so i started a thread here, but not much along the lines of productive talk

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2609470


anywho, people say that it would be FAR to difficult and costly to produce an ON/OFF regulator with a purge for the mini.

however, when ever anyone says that it would be nearly impossible or that it would add to much room to the back of the regulator. when they say this i always point them to the centerflag dynaflow

http://cdn-www.pbreview.com/pics/dynaflow_01.jpg
http://store.centerflagproducts.com/images/product/174.jpg

as you can see from the pictures it is a very small tank regulator and it has an on/off with a purge system BEFORE the regulator part of of the reg. there for shutting air off before the air gets to the reg. so basically to make the dynaflow work great on a mini, all you would need is a low pressure spring pack for better consistency around 150-200 psi, and instead of a tank mount it would need a tank ASA. also, take the tank pressure gauge off and run your air source into the gun there, and you could plug the fill nipple port. so for the people that say it would be to difficult, theres a perfect example of how easy it can be. and this regulator compared insize with the invert mini reg is almost identical insize (from tip of reg to back of tank mount/asa)

now for people that say to get the Smart Parts ON/OFF with out purge, or the new designs with purge. your point is valid, but there IS a market for a one piece design for such a product.

so what do you better educated people here on AO think? if a company made a run of 100-200 and sold for around $125 would you buy one? think its feasible? opinions?

and no, i do not have the means or money to make a run of these, just figured an educated discussion on such a product might hopefully get some one to do something :p

[lather]

Nice but I'd rather have a user servicable rebuildable reg for the mini than an on/off.

Doesnt anyone know how to degas a marker without an on/off anymore??

Edit** If you are talking about totally replacing the stock mini reg then your idea would be a winner ***

[trevorjk]

Nice but I'd rather have a user servicable rebuildable reg for the mini than an on/off.

Doesnt anyone know how to degas a marker without an on/off anymore??

Edit** If you are talking about totally replacing the stock mini reg then your idea would be a winner ***

edit for the win ;)

[d4m4don3]

There's a slight problem with your choice of regulator. The dynaflow's pressure goes up as the tank gets empty. Pefect for a mag but if that blows past 200 psi you're gonna need a new noid.

[trevorjk]

There's a slight problem with your choice of regulator. The dynaflow's pressure goes up as the tank gets empty. Pefect for a mag but if that blows past 200 psi you're gonna need a new noid.

thats why i noted a new low pressure spring spack

[d4m4don3]

Nice idea, but centerflag had already made a solution for the mini's problem. I'm just glad I have a working 420 sv for my mini. :D Now I'm just upset that centerflags gone.

[cyrus-the-virus]

I'd prefer somthing along the lines of a macdev conquest or pushbutton legionair. The conquest is an adjustable output tank(250-600 or so) the legionair is a fixed output pressure.

Both are on/off tanks and I know the conquests purges(not sure of the legionair)

[nicad]

I do not think there is a single reg out there that can reliably put out a stable pressure with an input ranging from 4500psi to 200psi (any tank reg). Dual regulation at least divides the primary variance by a large amount.. typically by 1/50. When 10-20 psi significantly affects a markers velocity (most spool valve guns), I will take dual regs any day. :)

[cyrus-the-virus]

I do not think there is a single reg out there that can reliably put out a stable pressure with an input ranging from 4500psi to 200psi (any tank reg). Dual regulation at least divides the primary variance by a large amount.. typically by 1/50. When 10-20 psi significantly affects a markers velocity (most spool valve guns), I will take dual regs any day. :)

You still will have 2 regulators, but the second one need's an on/off in the case of the mini cus it also servs as the ASA.

[nicad]

Ah ok. I thought Trevor was trying to say build a tank reg that serves the purpose of the only reg on the Mini.

Add an on/off pushpin to a tank with the Myth reg guts and have a "normal" length preset screw in tank for the mini, with vent.

[Pizzaluvr]

I do not think there is a single reg out there that can reliably put out a stable pressure with an input ranging from 4500psi to 200psi (any tank reg). Dual regulation at least divides the primary variance by a large amount.. typically by 1/50. When 10-20 psi significantly affects a markers velocity (most spool valve guns), I will take dual regs any day. :)
The Mini isn't a spool, it's a Pressure Controlled Poppet. :p
I see where you're going, though. Why not just put an on/off in the grip frame? Put it in the left or right side for lefties or righties. Wouldn't be too hard, all you would have to do is replace the little rod that carries air through it with a ball valve of the right size and such.

[trevorjk]

The Mini isn't a spool, it's a Pressure Controlled Poppet. :p
I see where you're going, though. Why not just put an on/off in the grip frame? Put it in the left or right side for lefties or righties. Wouldn't be too hard, all you would have to do is replace the little rod that carries air through it with a ball valve of the right size and such.

well the reason i would want a on/off before the regulator is so that i can shut the air off and bleed most of the air and take 1 maybe 2 clearing shots (as is with pretty much any gun on the market) now if i were to go the route that you would suggest, the reg would still be pressurized.


Ah ok. I thought Trevor was trying to say build a tank reg that serves the purpose of the only reg on the Mini.

Add an on/off pushpin to a tank with the Myth reg guts and have a "normal" length preset screw in tank for the mini, with vent.


yes :) i was refering to the dnyaflow regulator as a means to show that it is VERY possible to have a regulator with an ON/OFF with purge BEFORE the regulator on the mini. (just turn the dynaflow into an asa regulator)

im still trying to figure out after a year and a half why no one has made a run of mini regulators with an on/off before the reg. kind of boggles my mind. but there are plenty of bolts that reduce weight by 6 grams!!!!! :rolleyes:

[nicad]

The Mini isn't a spool, it's a Pressure Controlled Poppet. :p
I see where you're going, though. Why not just put an on/off in the grip frame? Put it in the left or right side for lefties or righties. Wouldn't be too hard, all you would have to do is replace the little rod that carries air through it with a ball valve of the right size and such.
Ehh.. Lets call Simon in here and re-hash the year old debate on if the Mini is a spool or a poppet. ;) I refer to it as a spool here due to the parameter of increased pressure directly results in increased velocity. Poppets (Autotockers, spyders, etc) can be tuned where the pressure input results in a plateaued velocity increase, and can actually have an inverted effect on velocity. This due to a constant hammer/spring force pushing a valve surface area into the pressure chamber, "popping" it open. But I think we get the original point, which turns out is mute, since I mis-understood the original post. :) :)

The main need for the Mini is to be able to vent the pressure on the tank ASA threads, thus easing unscrewing of the tank and not gauling up the tank threads over time.

[cyrus-the-virus]

Ehh.. Lets call Simon in here and re-hash the year old debate on if the Mini is a spool or a poppet. ;) I refer to it as a spool here due to the parameter of increased pressure directly results in increased velocity. Poppets (Autotockers, spyders, etc) can be tuned where the pressure input results in a plateaued velocity increase, and can actually have an inverted effect on velocity. This due to a constant hammer/spring force pushing a valve surface area into the pressure chamber, "popping" it open. But I think we get the original point, which turns out is mute, since I mis-understood the original post. :) :)

The main need for the Mini is to be able to vent the pressure on the tank ASA threads, thus easing unscrewing of the tank and not gauling up the tank threads over time.

I agree that the mini is more spool than popit.

[d4m4don3]

KEE/Invert is not AGD and they won't make the gun 100% perfect right out of the box. I suspect that there's probably going to be a new version of the mini that will solve the minor problems the mini has and there's probably an on/off reg already designed by their R&D team. It'll probably be on the next iteration of the mini and it's probably why we're not seeing Invert come out with an aftermarket product. We'll see it when Invert decides to release a major new version of the mini.

[trevorjk]

whats so weak about the mini?

[d4m4don3]

whats so weak about the mini?
Don't know if you haven't noticed it, but there is an issue with the invert mini's poppet. More pointedly it leaks out of the box in some occasions. If you look at the invert forum and look at the main complaint it's the poppet leaking. Yes I know theres the rinky dink velocity adjuster fix/replace poppet if fail fix but it's at best a stop gap solution to fix the problem. It's probably the number 1 tech support question that the PBS guys get for the mini. I know a fix is coming, I've been hearing rumors and hearsays about the fix and it's not lurker27's poppet that I'm talking about it's a pretty simple fix and I'm gonna try and pump the guys at the KEE booth this weekend if there is one at HB. My mini works fine and I'm pretty sure yours works well too but I've seen more than a few mini's with leaking poppets at some of the local shops and I'm interested in what the Invert guys are going to do.

[trevorjk]

Don't know if you haven't noticed it, but there is an issue with the invert mini's poppet. More pointedly it leaks out of the box in some occasions. If you look at the invert forum and look at the main complaint it's the poppet leaking. Yes I know theres the rinky dink velocity adjuster fix/replace poppet if fail fix but it's at best a stop gap solution to fix the problem. It's probably the number 1 tech support question that the PBS guys get for the mini. I know a fix is coming, I've been hearing rumors and hearsays about the fix and it's not lurker27's poppet that I'm talking about it's a pretty simple fix and I'm gonna try and pump the guys at the KEE booth this weekend if there is one at HB. My mini works fine and I'm pretty sure yours works well too but I've seen more than a few mini's with leaking poppets at some of the local shops and I'm interested in what the Invert guys are going to do.


true, however im being naive and hoping i dont have that issue when my 2nd mini gets here :p


but back to your second post where you say you believe KEE already has one drawn up ect. why would they not release it now? there is a market for it, and it would sell. so when you go to HB also pry at them about the regs ;) and if they DO have them. pick one up and ill paypal promptly :) (within reason)

/going to bed now *yawns*

[d4m4don3]

tbut back to your second post where you say you believe KEE already has one drawn up ect. why would they not release it now? there is a market for it

Is there really a market for it? The reg works well and nobody has complained about it's consistency. The only gripe people seem to have about it is the lack of an on/off purge. Solutions are out there, the 420SV, the NDZ TSO, and the use of a low pressure tank. End Users have already found their own solution to the problem and you want KEE to release an aftermarket part that will kill sales of accessories for it's marker? They'll wait a while and put it in as a feature on the mini's successor to make the ones who have mini's now want to sell their old models for the new one. Sound familiar? It's planet eclipse's strategy and for some wierd reason they can add a minor tweak and the agg kiddies go "ZOMG thats so 3@#% I so have to have the new model!" Think about it dude, when and if they release an on/off regulator on the mini it will force a new buying trend which will confuse me to no end just like the sales of EGO's make me scratch my head and say WTF?

[Lohman446]

KEE/Invert is not AGD and they won't make the gun 100% perfect right out of the box. I suspect that there's probably going to be a new version of the mini that will solve the minor problems the mini has and there's probably an on/off reg already designed by their R&D team. It'll probably be on the next iteration of the mini and it's probably why we're not seeing Invert come out with an aftermarket product. We'll see it when Invert decides to release a major new version of the mini.

Yeh, AGD produces everything perfectly the first time.

No detent threads drilled to far in the early ULE bodies.

No superbolt fiasco.

....

AGD made good on these but still, this idea that they have so many fewer issues than others is innacurate at best.

[d4m4don3]

Yeh, AGD produces everything perfectly the first time.

No detent threads drilled to far in the early ULE bodies.

No superbolt fiasco.


I stand corrected. :hail: