I don't understand mags

[Spencer]

I have tried a few times, to understand them, but I need help, here is my problem..

Well first of all, why does NOBODY have an automag? I mean I never see them at feilds never saw one shoot in person.. But cockers are pretty common... Btw I shoot a cocker..

Only time I have ever seen a mag was when I was at a senario, me and this other guy were in the top of a castle and he was plucking people off, I was like wow how are you doing that and in a nerdy voice he says.. "its a mag" lol me and my friend joke at that all the time..

Anyways..

I tried to get into them but seem to always drift away.. I currently shoot cockers and phantoms, I have owned almost every type of marker out there, I just prefer these..

I understand how they work but this is what I don't understand..

Whats the diffrences with all the valves?

And the trigger frames?

And can you make a mag look like this
http://www.rawbutter.com/images/paintball/p-mag5.JPG

If it currently looks like this
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee156/AutoMaggerIX/Mag_1.jpg

Not that thats what I want my mag to look like, its just that all I EVER See is thoes gray body ones, and I HATE THEM but there are others out there that are sexy, so what would it take?

Also where can you find parts for these things?

[grEnAlEins]

I have tried a few times, to understand them, but I need help, here is my problem..

Well first of all, why does NOBODY have an automag? Lots of people do shoot mags, believe it or not. They are serving a niche market though. I mean I never see them at feilds never saw one shoot in person.. But cockers are pretty common... Btw I shoot a cocker..

Only time I have ever seen a mag was when I was at a senario, me and this other guy were in the top of a castle and he was plucking people off, I was like wow how are you doing that and in a nerdy voice he says.. "its a mag" lol me and my friend joke at that all the time..

Anyways..

I tried to get into them but seem to always drift away.. I currently shoot cockers and phantoms, I have owned almost every type of marker out there, I just prefer these..

I understand how they work but this is what I don't understand..

Whats the diffrences with all the valves? Basic there are two groups. Group A: Field Rental, Classic, Minimag; These are standard valves. Group B: Rt valve, Retro valve, X valve, Emag valve, Emaxx valve, etc.; these are reactive valves. Any group A valve is essentially the same as any other Group A valve. Any Group B valve is essentially the same as any Group B valve.

And the trigger frames?A trigger frame is a trigger frame. Some are single trigger, some are double trigger. The Intelliframe can hold an Intelliswitch, which can make your warp-feed or hopper feed balls with every trigger pull. Other frames are available to suit taste and comfort. There is really no major differences as far as functionality for mech frames. Emag "lowers" give electronic function to the mag. So does a "spydermag" frame. A pnuemag frame uses parts similar to those on your cocker's front block to activate the valve.

And can you make a mag look like this
http://www.rawbutter.com/images/paintball/p-mag5.JPG

If it currently looks like this
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee156/AutoMaggerIX/Mag_1.jpg
Yes. You just have to switch parts out/upgrade.
Not that thats what I want my mag to look like, its just that all I EVER See is thoes gray body ones, and I HATE THEM but there are others out there that are sexy, so what would it take?
A new mainbody, maybe rail, feedneck, etc would be what you were looking for.
Also where can you find parts for these things?You can get some of it from AGD. Also hit up Tunaman or Rogue. They should be able to help you out. Also the B/S/T is a great way to find these items.
:cheers:

[trevorjk]

I have tried a few times, to understand them, but I need help, here is my problem..

Well first of all, why does NOBODY have an automag? I mean I never see them at feilds never saw one shoot in person.. But cockers are pretty common... Btw I shoot a cocker..

Only time I have ever seen a mag was when I was at a senario, me and this other guy were in the top of a castle and he was plucking people off, I was like wow how are you doing that and in a nerdy voice he says.. "its a mag" lol me and my friend joke at that all the time..

Anyways..

I tried to get into them but seem to always drift away.. I currently shoot cockers and phantoms, I have owned almost every type of marker out there, I just prefer these..

I understand how they work but this is what I don't understand..

Whats the diffrences with all the valves? there are classic valves and rt valves. classics can easily shoot close to 20 while the rt valves can shoot closer to 40 :) with in those 2 valves are a variety of different named valves such as RT Pro, X-Valve, E-Mag Valve, Retro Valve, X-Mag Valve, Tuna Valve, ect ect... basically different name same valve (except some aluminum some steel)

And the trigger frames? we are looking at 15 years of different frames made for mags. basically you have frames for the classic rail and frames for an rt rail. basically find the one that fits you best and the one you like most

And can you make a mag look like this
http://www.rawbutter.com/images/paintball/p-mag5.JPG

If it currently looks like this
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee156/AutoMaggerIX/Mag_1.jpg

yes

Not that thats what I want my mag to look like, its just that all I EVER See is thoes gray body ones, and I HATE THEM but there are others out there that are sexy, so what would it take?

you just gotta remember that there is over 10 years of making those grey, SS bodies. and to build a mag is FAR cheaper to get one of those bodies. and the body of the gun does not hinder performance at all. (except some will argue the powerfeed vs standard vs vert feed ect)

Also where can you find parts for these things?

did i cover everything?

[PBChappy]

that classic mag looks sexy

[MAGslinger]

Classic/Minimag group is by far the most affordable and they work off Co2. I bought both an X-Valve ULE Mag and a Minimag just for:

X-Valve ULE Mag:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/2/5619320689.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7745273)

I bought it for speed to replace my POS Autococker (which was such a :cuss: POS that the only thing it was still good for was a pump conversion)

Minimag:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/4/10416572898.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/7986627)

Ah, why did I blow a total of $270 for this one? Well, I wanted an extra Mag that could *theoretically* run off both co2/HPA. I'm not done with this one, I'm gonna make this into a "sniper" themed one, put a longer barrel and 12 gram changer on it. I bought the Minimag to replace my crappy A5. I was considering buying a Smart Parts SP1 :eek: , but I had second thoughts and I wanted to contribute to the state economy (y'all know I live a 35 minute drive away from AGD.)

I'm looking to parting with my Sniper, but I gotta wait until I find out S & H prices for it. Other than that, I'm gonna be packing these two for Rambo all day scenario at fox.

[Spencer]

thanks guys...

Anyways,, I think I realized I hate mini mags and classic mags.. I think anyways.. What exactly makes them diffrent from .... the other mags... Don't know what there called..

[trevorjk]

thanks guys...

Anyways,, I think I realized I hate mini mags and classic mags.. I think anyways.. What exactly makes them diffrent from .... the other mags... Don't know what there called..

the valve.

classic style valves are slower then the newer valves by 20bps. and the newer style valve can reach close to 40bps.

but both are used primarily on mech mags.

[cyrus-the-virus]

the valve.

classic style valves are slower then the newer valves by 20bps. and the newer style valve can reach close to 40bps.

but both are used primarily on mech mags.

Classic valves peak out somewhere in the high teens.

RT Valves peak out at about 26 (with 850 PSI input) 36 I think is the record with a 3000 PSI input pressure.

[questionful]

thanks guys...

Anyways,, I think I realized I hate mini mags and classic mags.. I think anyways.. What exactly makes them diffrent from .... the other mags... Don't know what there called..

You have to understand mags don't come in "models". They're just an assembly of parts. If you were to name every permutation it would be crazy, so they are named generally. What you don't like are steel bodies, not the mag itself. You can swap your classic or mini mag's body for another body and it would still be the same mag. And the two examples you gave with the links. They're completely different mags. Everything is different. There are no identical parts except for the screws. You can start with the classic and swap one part at a time, but in the end it will be a completely different mag.

Classic mag: means pretty much any mag with a classic valve
minimag: means pretty much any mag with the minimag body, it's the steel body with the extended, slotted body (just for looks)
micromag: any mag with PTP's "micromag" body. Combined with E-mag lowers, a "micro-E"
RT mag: means pretty much any mag with any of the following valves: RT, ReTro, RTpro Emag, Emaxx,
Tac one: any mag with the "tac one" body
Karta mag: any mag with a karta body and rail.
X-mag: this one is more of a "model" type mag, but loguzzzzz put a Z-frame on one, it went by "Z-mag"
Micromag, etc.
Z-mag: any mag with a Z-frame
Y-mag: any mag with a Y-frame
whatever mag: pretty much any mag
Emaggo: a mag with an adapted ego frame, with the solenoid tripping an MPA-3 (or MSV-2, I always get the two confused. it's the piston used in pneumags)
pneumag: uses an MPA-3 and MSV-2 and an LPR of your choice to pnumatically operate the sear.
my mag: any mag owned by me

you get the idea. You basically call a mag whatever you want, based on some of it's major parts or unique characteristics.

[Spencer]

Yea I understand partially,

I mean guess its just that whenever I see a mag I like it never has a classic valve I guess, why is this? Do better looking bodies only work with the other valves?

Also what parts are needed to build a pneumag?

[Spencer]

also where can I find a list of all the valves and the diffrences..

Also whats the level of the valve mean?

[grEnAlEins]

Many of us have gone to the X valve, or other RT style valve, for performance reasons. Many of us still use classic valves too though.

All bodies and rails work with all valves--save for the classic RT valve and rail, which only work with each other, but don't worry about that.

To build a pnuemag, you need an LPR, Barbs, LP Hoses, a Ram, A 2/3 way valve. There are some good threads in "The workshop." Do a forum search and you will find all sorts of good info.

Level 7 is the "stock" bolt setup for classic style valves. Level 10 or Level X is the anti chop bolt kit, which can require some know how and time to properly tune. Level 10 now comes with the X Valve.

:cheers:

[breg]

basically mags are about as modular as a marker comes.

[questionful]

To put it simply, X-valves are better. If someone has a nice-looking mag, it's because they were willing to put a lot of money into it, and if you're going to do that, you're going to get an X-valve. Besides, one of the advantages of classic valves is that they are made of steel, so they are used on guns meant to take a beating, oldschool (plenty cool) guns, guns meant to run CO2, etc, none of which usually lend themselves to fancy aluminum parts.

as far as I know, the first production mags were already level 5. I think the first four levels were prototypes with major bugs. Then there were levels 6 and 7 shortly afterwards, then they skipped to 10 around the 2000's or so. Don't know the details. But now you can have a level X X-valve! :cheers:

[MournBlade]

Classic type valves are inexpensive and have been selling for 18 years. My Minimag valve is at least 13 years old if not older. I had to get a level 7 kit for it. X-valves and the like are more expensive thus less common. A classic valve can still rip a 12-15bps string so there is little reason to upgrade to an X-valve if you're staying mechanical.

The level 7 kit was to fix problems with level 5's and 6's
The level 10 kit prevents chopping at the cost of a shot of air.

[Ninjeff]

Think about mags like this:
You can take any valve and put it on any mag. (with one exception, but dont worry about that).

What you are after is a ULE bodied mag. Those are the ones that "look great". But all you are swapping is the body. ULE is "ultra light engineering". Basically parts made of aluminum instead of stainless steel.

What im betting is that you dont like the "flat grey" look of the blasted look of the old mag bodies. What you may not have thought of is polishing one. get a nice mirror finish and BLING! instant awesome.

Anyway, lets take my mag for example: **note, its changed since the picture, but you'll get an idea**

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h28/Ninjeff/1020071335.jpg

Thats an X-Valve (the newest valve AGD made, its just a lighter version of an RT valve)
A Red ULE Body from AGD. A Black TacOne ULE rail (what joins the frame and body together) also from AGD, a CP foregrip (self explanatory), and an RPG Chimera Frame (from Rogue Sports, a seller/dealer/manufacturer here on AO)

All these parts can be had here on AO. There are SOOOOO many combonations that sometimes its hard to wrap your head around, but as a rule of thumb, pretty much EVERY part can be swapped out for some other AGD part.

here are the various parts: **Same mag as before, just pulled apart before i sent it off to get pneumagged/ anno'd, so please ignore the colors ;) ****
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h28/Ninjeff/pnuemag/100_3333.jpg

You have the Green ULE body up top, the X-Valve and LVL 10 bolt out back, on top of a custom milled rail , on top of a Chimera Frame. All you have to do to put the ENTIRE mag back together is screw in two screws, one in the frame (to hold it to the rail/body) and one in the back of the rail (to hold the valve in)

Thats it. Takes me about 1-2 minutes (provided i can find the ONE allen wrench i need) to take apart the mag, and about 2 minutes to put it back together. Add a minute for a quick wipe down, and i can disassemble my mag clean it, and then re-assemble it in the time it takes someone to change their batteries in a Velocity.

nd the whole gun can be put together with a classic valve also. As a matter of fact, if you wanted to, you could swap two valves out of a mag while ON the field. Takes about 30 seconds.
God bless Mags and thier awesome simplicity.

[Beemer]

:dance: :eek: This Thread is Epic.

[AirAssault]

AGD and mags are dead, didn't you know that? :rolleyes:

[Spencer]

Ok, this thread is helping me alot...

So do you guys find all the parts you need in the used section? I mean I understand I need a valve, a body a trigger frame, asa, front grip or gas through...

Also do some of these valves no work with c02? I will most likely be using air but just incase, is c02 ok?

I think i want a lvl 10 bolt too..

[michbich]

You can't use CO2 with reactive valves (X, RT, Emag....). You can only use CO2 with classic valves (automag, minimag and micromag valves).

[SteelSoul]

Just get this, it has everything you want already

http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228206

[vmaxnick]

Basically, to me a mag is like a Harley, there are mags and then there are the others!
Nuff said! :headbang:

[jade_monkey07]

Just get this, it has everything you want already

http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228206

steel is right, that gun is everything youd want and 400$ is the average price for what is being sold. i had about 9 mags come through me, for friends or other AO'ers. some a little cheaper, and some more expensive. if i was in the market for one i would be picking that one up.

The seller is a respectable guy too

[Spider-TW]

Just the FAQ. (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=214736)

Section 13 is valves.

You can buy all new from Airgun Designs and others, or part one together if you pay attention to which parts you want. Be aware that the 'black sheep' of the family is the 'classic RT' which has a special rail and valve body, easily identified by the air supply line going into the rail instead of the valve. The classic RT is a niche in a niche. Some people like them a lot and there are things you can do with the gas ports, but off the shelf they have some (not complete) incompatibilities with the other mags in bodies, rails, and valve.

The older mags have a lot of stainless steel on them. They can be heavy, but they are machined and designed very well and they will hurt you if you fall on them.

You do see a lot of them at scenarios. There you don't really need (or are usually allowed) more than 15 bps. You also want consistency for a couple days and a few (or several) cases of paint straight through. Paint that you don't get much selection on, also. You don't often run into soft bunkers. Usually it's trees, logs, cinder block walls, rocks, mud, dead animals :rolleyes:

The RT Pro ULE/ULT is light and fast enough for speedball, but it usually takes a old school player to pay that much for a marker that wouldn't go much over 18 bps without using the reactive trigger or electronics. You have to accept that it shoots fast enough and the efficiency is usually good enough to shoot about as much paint as you are willing to carry on the field. Beyond that, you'll have to start the mods for higher rates. The newer players usually don't have enough confidence in the mag and themselves to go that route.

[SkinnyHare]

Anyways,, I think I realized I hate mini mags and classic mags..

I'm going to hurt you :nono:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/90/img2385gz6.jpg

my mini is teh secksay

[Spider-TW]

And can you make a mag look like this
http://www.rawbutter.com/images/paintball/p-mag5.JPG

If it currently looks like this
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee156/AutoMaggerIX/Mag_1.jpg

I was thinking those two could share the field strip screw and the sear, but no. A new sear comes with the x valve and the field strip screw from some of the old classics could be a little too long for the x valve.

You would never plan that much of a conversion. It could happen though. I have one that is halfway in between that started out more than 15 years ago.

That mag of rawbutter's is a pneumag as well, so they're pretty far apart. There's a can o' worms. :p

[Spencer]

agian thanks for all the help guys.. And exactly why can't you run c02 with thoes other markers?

Also, just came to me... How do you adjust velocity with a mag? And do you have to have an adjustable hpa tank for a mag?

[Spencer]

Also I like the looks of this one.. http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229339

Can someone tell me about it? I like the looks of it, what kind of frame is that? And this is considered what type of mag? It uses a classic valve, which I thought it was impossible for me to like a mag with a classic valve..

[Spencer]

And why is warp feed so popular with mags?

[Ruler_Mark]

adjustable HPA tanks lead to 1200psi inputs which can let you RT alot easier. IT is not required.

To adust your velocity, goto a chrono, pull the trigger but do not release, adjust accordingly, the back part of the valve screw it in to increase out to decrease. Quickly pull and hold again. repeat

[Ruler_Mark]

Also I like the looks of this one.. http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229339

Can someone tell me about it? I like the looks of it, what kind of frame is that? And this is considered what type of mag? It uses a classic valve, which I thought it was impossible for me to like a mag with a classic valve..


mounted on the gun is a intelliframe,, blue ule body,, am/mm rail. all stock parts



And why is warp feed so popular with mags?


Warps are made by agd,, mags are the #1 easiest thing to take advantage of it. We mag people usually arent afraid of being different. Warps look odd on guns but make for alot tighter playing.

[Spencer]

mounted on the gun is a intelliframe,, blue ule body,, am/mm rail. all stock parts





Warps are made by agd,, mags are the #1 easiest thing to take advantage of it. We mag people usually arent afraid of being different. Warps look odd on guns but make for alot tighter playing.

What exactly is an intelli frame?

[Ruler_Mark]

What exactly is an intelli frame?

http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/intelliframe.shtml

[Spencer]

you guys are quick and helpfull,

Whats a spydermag frame?

[trevorjk]

you guys are quick and helpfull,

Whats a spydermag frame?

any electronic spyder/spyder clone frame that has been modified to fit onto a mag.

http://www.lukescustoms.com/ guy to talk to about them if your looking to have it done

[Ninjeff]

you guys are quick and helpfull,

Whats a spydermag frame?

What ever it takes to grow the army!

:shooting: :shooting: :shooting:

[Spencer]

Do you guys think this is a good deal?

http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229339

I really don't need the tank or the warp feed, and i think i would prefer a tac body,

Should I go this way and buy this mag and upgrade the body or should I just build one from the ground up?

[Ninjeff]

Thats a freaking GREAT deal. Take it man. Just upgrade the body, and sell the old one on here! Heck you may even be able to do a trade.

[Spencer]

you guys got me to buy a mag too quick.... :clap: I have NEVER gone from not knowing a think about a marker to buying one so quick.. You guys should be sales persons..

Now its time to see how it lives up to my cockers...

Also I gotta get rid of some of that extra stuff I got with it..

[grEnAlEins]

You guys should be sales persons..
We sort of are AGD's marketing dept...

To bad they don't cut us all commission checks :rofl:

Good luck, have fun, and keep rockin the mag :shooting: :headbang: :headbang:

[Spencer]

Also, how the heck does that barrel work? I always wondered what the point of the hole is and how the barrel goes on the marker..

[Ruler_Mark]

Also, how the heck does that barrel work? I always wondered what the point of the hole is and how the barrel goes on the marker..


slide it in then twist,, thusly named twistlock. no threads takes like 2 seconds.

[rawbutter]

Have you checked out the Official Picture Thread? It will give you lots of other ideas.
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5895&page=80&pp=30

I would start at the end and go backwards, though. Some of the older picture links have been dead for a long time.

(If you haven't seen this thread already, then I apologize. I may have helped to feed a new addiction. :D )

[Spider-TW]

Also, how the heck does that barrel work? I always wondered what the point of the hole is and how the barrel goes on the marker..
The hole is where the paint enters, the twist lock barrels are a barrel and breech chamber combination. They fit in the power feed body in the picture you posted. The ULE body (actually on the marker) has autococker threads and doesn't take twist locks. The twist locks also have their own ball detent built in that is relatively trouble free.

Way back in the old days, before the invention of eyes and level 10 bolts, no one went on the field without a barrel squeegee. After a chop-type break, it's hard to get a barrel reasonably clean without taking it off. The twist lock was fast at this.

[MournBlade]

Here's a hint Rain-x your barrel. If you get a chop all you'll have to do is shoot a few more times to clear it.

[acropilot19]

adjustable HPA tanks lead to 1200psi inputs which can let you RT alot easier. IT is not required.

To adust your velocity, goto a chrono, pull the trigger but do not release, adjust accordingly, the back part of the valve screw it in to increase out to decrease. Quickly pull and hold again. repeat

:confused:
You have to hold the trigger in to adjust velocity? I never did that...
:confused:

[Spider-TW]

:confused:
You have to hold the trigger in to adjust velocity? I never did that...
:confused:
It's just on the RT-type valves so that you can check the velocity that you get at rapid fire. The RT effect dissipates quickly, so if you release the trigger and pull quickly it simulates the quick valve recharge and discharge, including the RT effect. It can be faster or slower depending on input pressure. It's on the AGD website under tech / RT chronograph procedure.

[Spencer]

so how does this reg work?
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn178/spencerfitch/p-mag5.jpg

I think thoes regs don't go up that high..

[Ruler_Mark]

so how does this reg work?
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn178/spencerfitch/p-mag5.jpg

I think thoes regs don't go up that high..


That front reg acts as a lpr, the air is routed so it is untouched by the regulator for the valve to breath, va is tapped to run a hidden lpr line to the frame

[MournBlade]

Thats a good looking sleeper.

[grEnAlEins]

Thats a good looking sleeper.
QFT. B-E-A-utifully done :shooting:

[rawbutter]

so how does this reg work?
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn178/spencerfitch/p-mag5.jpg

I think thoes regs don't go up that high..

That's mine. :D Thanks for the compliments.

I can make you one if you want. ;) I've been wanting another project for the spring. Or I can let you know how to build one yourself.

[Spencer]

I really like the look of it, and does the reg actually do anything?

Also what does sleeper mean?

[micromag-man]

Maybe sleeper is a marker that does not look too mean, but will surprise you out on the field?

[cyberave68]

Rawbutter's mag is a Pneumag. It has a few added parts to make the trigger pull super soft and able to be walked. Most people would think its mechy just by looking at it. (no batteries at all) But when you get it on the field he can rip as fast as any electro out there. The reg on the VA is what supplie's the air to the pneumatic trigg assembly that was added. Hence "pneumag"

As for "Sleeper" that means it looks normal but in actuality it has HIGH PERFORMANCE under the hood...

[Spider-TW]

That is a pneumag. Pneu's tend to shoot faster than a ULT equipped mag, especially when you look at a pneu'd classic. Part of the entertainment with pneumags is when people see the mag valve and figure you're good for about 10 bps, but actually it runs 16+ bps. Search the tech forum for 'pneumag' or just 'pneu'.

After that, they learn to spot the (sometimes ugly) LPR sticking out of a mag [!]. So, with a fair amount of additional work, you can hide the LPR in the foregrip or in the frame for a smoother look and there will be very little clue as to how much paint that mag can actually throw.

The term 'sleeper' also refers to cars that look junky or plain, but are actually hiding some serious horsepower.

[Spencer]

never heard that term used in paintball other than this forum..

Anyways I like it, so basicly the inline reg just, supplies air to the pneu part of the mag?


One more question, short stroking a cocker makes sense to me, but how do you short stroke a mag? And what exactly happens when you do this?

[Spider-TW]

never heard that term used in paintball other than this forum..

Anyways I like it, so basicly the inline reg just, supplies air to the pneu part of the mag?
Yes.


One more question, short stroking a cocker makes sense to me, but how do you short stroke a mag? And what exactly happens when you do this?
Mechanically, right after the sear catches the bolt upon return, the on/off clears the top oring and the valve starts recharging. On a classic valve, if you pull the trigger too quickly (because you never really let go of it) or keep too much tension on the trigger, the valve hasn't recharged before the sear lets the bolt free again. And you get a 'chuff' and much sadness, because you really wanted that ball fast.

The RT helps this a lot by kicking your finger back and giving itself enough time to recharge.

[nate2k191]

haha, great thread...

went from "i dont understand mags" to buying a mag within a few days...

i'm sure you'll love it. a mag is the only marker you'll ever need. i enjoy phantoms and cockers myself too though.

great people here too, right? so helpful and knowledgeable.

welcome to the mag family sir :D

[Beemer]

haha, great thread...

went from "i dont understand mags" to buying a mag within a few days...

i'm sure you'll love it. a mag is the only marker you'll ever need. i enjoy phantoms and cockers myself too though.

great people here too, right? so helpful and knowledgeable.

welcome to the mag family sir :D

Ya welcome to the World of Mags. I said this Thread was EPIC in post seventeen. :argh: