SP is at it again :rolleyes:

[SOAD8789]

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.jsp?LANG=ENG&DBSELECT=PCT&SERVER_TYPE=19-10&SORT=41224460-KEY&TYPE_FIELD=256&IDB=0&IDOC=1271607&C=10&ELEMENT_SET=B&RESULT=5&TOTAL=26&START=1&DISP=25&FORM=SEP-0/HITNUM,B-ENG,DP,MC,AN,PA,ABSUM-ENG&SEARCH_IA=US2006022235&QUERY=%28DE%2fpaintball+AND+DE%2fdrop%29+
Patenting a paintball gun kit? They came up with it first, right? :eek:

Abstract:
A paintball gun kit preferably includes a plurality of non-folly assembled paintball gun components packaged for retail sale to a consumer. Instructions are preferably provided to instruct the consumer how to assemble the paintball gun components into an operational paintball gun. The paintball gun components can be packaged together or separately. The paintball gun kit can include, for example, a body, a grip, and a pneumatic assembly. Various numbers and arrangements of components are contemplated. Various styles, materials, and colors of paintball gun components can also be provided consistent with the principles of the present invention.



Found it on the 'nation. Thanks cockerpunk!

[Empyreal Rogue]

Putting a patent on the electronic frame, while a pretty low move in my opinion, at least had some legitimacy to it.

But this? I mean... Really? It's like now he's just patenting things just to have the patent, either to increase e-peen growth or simply piss off other companies. With the Orphan Bill being passed through congress I'd hate to see what the Gardner's are going to run around copywriting and patenting... It could potentially be disastrous for growth in the sport.

[robnix]

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/fetch.jsp?LANG=ENG&DBSELECT=PCT&SERVER_TYPE=19-10&SORT=41224460-KEY&TYPE_FIELD=256&IDB=0&IDOC=1271607&C=10&ELEMENT_SET=B&RESULT=5&TOTAL=26&START=1&DISP=25&FORM=SEP-0/HITNUM,B-ENG,DP,MC,AN,PA,ABSUM-ENG&SEARCH_IA=US2006022235&QUERY=%28DE%2fpaintball+AND+DE%2fdrop%29+
Patenting a paintball gun kit? They came up with it first, right? :eek:


Found it on the 'nation. Thanks cockerpunk!

Prior art would be shopping the AGD store... :rolleyes:

[Swampy]

what has this world come to?

[SOAD8789]

An interesting read, if you have the time.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2600786

[Toll]

I imagine this must be a very frustrating thing even for lawyers to deal with in that they can clearly see how dumb it is, though legally its possible and technically correct.


This patent how ever seems FAR too broad to work. It's really up there like patenting the idea of "putting things together" to the point where any one selling a peice of a frame, trigger or even barrel could be infringing on the idea of putting lead A into socket B.... I don't think that could possibly fly

[SOAD8789]

Putting a patent on the electronic frame, while a pretty low move in my opinion, at least had some legitimacy to it.

But this? I mean... Really? It's like now he's just patenting things just to have the patent, either to increase e-peen growth or simply piss off other companies. With the Orphan Bill being passed through congress I'd hate to see what the Gardner's are going to run around copywriting and patenting... It could potentially be disastrous for growth in the sport.

I just saw your location, Tool fan maybe? :headbang:

[Boy_Wonder]

Wow, The Gardner's are definitely suffering from some sort of mental illness. Maybe they're bitter at life and want to take it out on everyone else as a joke. I'm proud to say that the only piece of Smart Parts equipment that I've owned is a Progressive barrel for my Model 98 about 9 years ago. I will NEVER support that company based on what they make and the things that they've done to the sport that I love to play. It's really quite a shame.

[WingMan13]

Learn to swim... :headbang:

[Beemer]

An interesting read, if you have the time.

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2600786

Going there to read ALWAYS hurts but I love post thirteen with the link. :clap:



Huh? http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/

[trevorjk]

this makes me want to cry :cry:


Originally Posted by little al
Someone asked what would AKA be making if it was still around and SP and Larry and Eileen had not done what they did. Here is a list of things that were on the drawing board to be brought out. Many of the designs were close to being finished or were ready to be prototyped. If licensing fees were reasonable so small a family run American company could offer them, AKA might have been able to continue to make markers.

Evil-M: Many people don’t believe it was real. It was, I still have a few in my garage. This was a stacked tube marker using all the proven components from the Viking and a new LPR using a new extrusion for the body that was based off of the Merlin extrusion but even better.

Generation 3 Excal: The 2004 Excal is actually classed as generation 2. I had Gen 3 mostly ready to be prototyped when the above things happened. The electronics were moved to the grip to go trayless. There were a few other refinements.

Scenario Gun that looks very real.

Nitro system: It had a fixed output with High flow. Built in on-off and a dove tail rail machined into the body. This was on my short list of projects before all the above things happened. It would have been out about 1.5 years before another company released something similar just a while back.

New pressure Regulators that even outperformed the 2-Liter.

Generation 4 Excal: I finished this design up early this spring, yes I still enjoy designing paintball stuff. The Gen 4 is the most refined and best Excal yet. The marker contains a number of changes that would have kept this marker on top as well as brought the production cost way down. It is much smaller height and length more than any Excal or electro closed bolt marker out there. It has a new eye system, new solenoid layout. New grip layout based on the Evil-M. A custom MQ-valve to replace the venerable Tornado valve. A new LPR, new Lightining bolt and much more. I still have a few pieces of Excal extrusion, maybe this winter I’ll get a chance to make the prototype so I’ll at least be able to play with them and my little son will have one to play with when he is old enough.

Spool valve marker. Yes I had two designs that I was playing around with for spool valve marker. They would have been efficient and reliable.

Of course there would have been upgrades parts developed for other markers

Outside of paintball market I was working on a Gas piston conversion system for the M16/AR-15. I still take my prototype out some and shoot it. It works great. I was also working on other firearms related products.

I really appriacted everyone's support for the company while it was still around.

Little Al
(Aaron K. Alexander)

[Empyreal Rogue]

I just saw your location, Tool fan maybe? :headbang:

It's the title of a Bill Hicks album.

But yes, I am quite the Tool fan.

[pyrodragon]

someone just needs to thump bill on the head like the V8 commericals.

[pyrodragon]

Wow, The Gardner's are definitely suffering from some sort of mental illness. Maybe they're bitter at life and want to take it out on everyone else as a joke. I'm proud to say that the only piece of Smart Parts equipment that I've owned is a Progressive barrel for my Model 98 about 9 years ago. I will NEVER support that company based on what they make and the things that they've done to the sport that I love to play. It's really quite a shame.

only smart parts equipment i use i bought used and that's the freak barrel system. i will never buy anything new from them.

[Hook]

only smart parts equipment i use i bought used and that's the freak barrel system. i will never buy anything new from them.

I've got an old adjustable SP Max-Flo. Ditto fo me, it's the only SP product I'll ever get.

[maniacmechanic]

has anyone patented the wheel ????

[riceboi]

WTF i going give SP a new start and buy a ion for backup gun now i see this **** :cuss: :cuss:

[Mechanic79]

someone just needs to thump bill on the head like the V8 commericals.

instead of a hand they should use a MAUL!


The patent office and judicial system need to start tightening the reigns on these absurd requests.
Waste of tax payers money!

[cyberave68]

"The paintball gun kit can include, for example, a body, a grip, and a pneumatic assembly. Various numbers and arrangements of components are contemplated. Various styles, materials, and colors of paintball gun components can also be provided consistent with the principles of the present invention."



So what i get from that is ANY aftermarket parts is not able to be sold with out there permision? You will have to buy each parts seperatly???? They can kiss me where the sun dont shine, the money greedy/ power hungry BLEEP BEEP BLEEP BEEP...

Sorry for the rant but that there is just plain stupid..... It sad that they found yet another way to ruin the sport even further.... :cry:

[joelbird]

lets sink to their level. lets patent a device that has the sole purpose of holding various objects related to a paintball gun that is distributed to the public....... it consists of 4 sides, a bottom and a lid. the interior has various materials to hold the objects. all pieces would be covered under any color ever known and yet to be known and any material known to man. :tard:

[halB]

I don't think this will help SP at all. I think they just shot themselves in the foot.

[B-Pow]

Jesus tap dancing christ....

can this be considered a form of industral terrorism?

[seekandestroy78]

i think its not so much a patent on parts, but a patenet on selling a paintball gun erector set. get what im sayin?

a company cant sell a paintball gun that i have to put together myself.

thats how i see it, either way i hope billy gardener gets a d.w.i.

[Hilltop Customs]

i think its not so much a patent on parts, but a patenet on selling a paintball gun erector set. get what im sayin?

a company cant sell a paintball gun that i have to put together myself.

thats how i see it, either way i hope billy gardener gets a d.w.i.

yea I think your right. The wording of the patent leans toward a 100% complete marker that is just unassembled; nothing to do with purchasing individual parts. Its more a cost cutting measure than anything else. If they can sell unassembled guns, they dont have to pay someone to assemble them. Also since they have the patent on it, if people start buying these unassembled guns, then SP are the only ones capable of taking this price reduction step.

I really doubt a paintball gun kit would sell well, unless start offering made to order paintball guns. Having a variety of bolts/boards/bodies/regs to choose from....the consumer selects the parts they want, purchases the gun and is sent the unassembled "kit". Oh no, next they will patent the made to order paintball gun.

Either way, I dont believe parents would buy thier kids a paintball gun kit(a huge market for paintball), and I dont believe people in general would want a kit.

[maniacmechanic]

after thinking about this a little , wouldn't this open them up to lawsuits , like this :
Little Joey's dad buys a kit & "assemblies" it , screws a bottle on it , turns the air on & kabluie it explodes
It seems to me like this would be a common scenario , with people that "think" they know everything & with all the lawyers out there looking for work , it probley wouldn't take long to sue ** into bankrupcy

[B-Pow]

How soon before companies have to ad more tracking to online stores...

Say I wanted to "kit" a mag or a cocker (i.e. buy all the parts that I like and assemble it myself) said internet store would now be in violation of that patent and would be held liable.

I "kit" computers for personal use, if say....dell patented this idea for computer hardware how many lawsuits would newegg.com or tigerdirect.com have on their doorstep?

Am I going to have to buy a body from store A, bolt from store B, valve from store C, springs from store D...etc just to not pay SP if I wanted to build a mag/cocker/intimidator (all guns that can be easily kit-ed) myself?

[neppo1345]

Kinda old news...

Smart Parts did this in order to allow them to sell guns in countries with strict firearms laws...where it is oftentimes (one word or two?) illegal to sell a paintball gun in functioning form, but perfectly legal to sell it as a kit of parts one must assemble.

This in essence monopolizes their product in that country.

Another smart business move from an international standpoint.

/let the flames begin

[AGD]

If they were doing this to sell guns in other countries why bother with a US patent? Our patents are not valid in other countries.

Its not adding up...

AGD

[neppo1345]

If they were doing this to sell guns in other countries why bother with a US patent? Our patents are not valid in other countries.

Its not adding up...

AGD

But with almost all major gun manufacturers based in the U.S...

WDP and Mac Dev don't make a comparable product (to the ion) that they can market overseas.

[Hilltop Customs]

How soon before companies have to ad more tracking to online stores...

Say I wanted to "kit" a mag or a cocker (i.e. buy all the parts that I like and assemble it myself) said internet store would now be in violation of that patent and would be held liable.

I "kit" computers for personal use, if say....dell patented this idea for computer hardware how many lawsuits would newegg.com or tigerdirect.com have on their doorstep?

Am I going to have to buy a body from store A, bolt from store B, valve from store C, springs from store D...etc just to not pay SP if I wanted to build a mag/cocker/intimidator (all guns that can be easily kit-ed) myself?

you can buy all the parts you want from a single store and this patnet will have no impact. The kit will be a single UPC/box. THe kit wil be one item to purchase that has all parts included.
If somehow they tried to go after stores for selling all the parts to make a marker, it would have to be a case by case basis.....and would be way to time consuming and expensive for their benifit.

I still say its just another cost cutting measure....labor is a major determining factor in producing something. With the "kits" SP can mass produce parts, throw them in boxes and be done; whereas before they had to pay someone to assemble each marker.(ive never seen their production line, but I doubt they have invested in robots for assembly.....with the quantities produced in paintball a fully automated line is probably not worth it)

Everything SP does is to reduce cost, that way they can sell "competing" markers at lower prices and make a higher profit margin than competitors.....its business.



*edit* forgot to say the using the "kit" to get past laws is also a very valid point too....but I'm not failure with international firearms laws.

[Hilltop Customs]

If they were doing this to sell guns in other countries why bother with a US patent? Our patents are not valid in other countries.

Its not adding up...

AGD

but couldnt SP use a US patent to limit the production of single UPC kits by other US based companies. Since other US based companies can no longer produce these "kits"....SP are effectively the only company who could sell to the countries with strict firearms laws.

[Empyreal Rogue]

but couldnt SP use a US patent to limit the production of single UPC kits by other US based companies. Since other US based companies can no longer produce these "kits"....SP are effectively the only company who could sell to the countries with strict firearms laws.

I think what Tom is saying is that our US patents don't apply to other countries. Take our AO'ers in Germany for example. I'm not completely clear on the exact wording, but from my understanding paintball markers cannot be shipped into the country under any circumstances. Which is why when you ship parts to Germany they have to be labeled as sporting goods. However, even in the form of an unassembled kit they still cannot ship a "kit" into Germany. So even if SP has a patent for unassembled kits it does no good overseas. That's why MacDev and WDP were completely unaffected by SP patenting the electronic frame, which is why Cyborgs are still being produced at good prices.

But I do see what you're saying about how it limits what companies within the united states. But really, how many companies are selling their markers unassembled anyway? Maybe SP did this in order to prevent companies from being sneaky by manufacturing an electronic framed marker, but selling it completely unassembled so it doesn't violate that patent. Which would be an interesting move, but I don't know that the Gardner's are that witty. Or I could be wrong about that, it has been a while since I read the electronic frame patent.

[warbeak2099]

Look at the claims. This patent covers electronic frames sold separately from the gun.

[Empyreal Rogue]

Look at the claims. This patent covers electronic frames sold separately from the gun.

My theory meant completely unassembled electronic frames. That is, a completely bare frame with all the necessary parts included. Again I could still be completely wrong, but it would make for an interesting theory.

[skife]

does anyone remember the EVIL pIMP?

it was a "kit" gun, came with everything but the `noid.

wich you had to order from smartparts, it was a clone of the Impulse

[SR_matt]

wow even though it is legally possible i would bet most lawyers would go "you want to do what?" "ya right, im not wasting my time"

i really wonder how greedy people have to be to even waste their time thinking of what they can patent next. i guess i need to trademark breathing so everyone will have to pay me for being a live, then maybe i should trademark peeing and then i can just stand out side a bar for an hour and have enough cash to last a month.

there really needs to be a way that the legal system can dissolve a company or basically take everything away form an individual for having to many frivolous lawsuits. one day SP will come in contact with a judge that will just look at them, tell who ever is fighting SP's patent rampage that he suggests they counter sue for full ownership of the company and then rule in favor of them just so SP will crash and burn.

now if they were patenting the material and manner used to sell the kit ok, i could see that since most packaging you touch everyday is proprietary plastics and technology (i have a friend that woks in the plastics field and wow, that stuff is complicated for just a steamer pack of veggies, or a peal top)

-matt

[ThePixelGuru]

My theory meant completely unassembled electronic frames. That is, a completely bare frame with all the necessary parts included. Again I could still be completely wrong, but it would make for an interesting theory.
It appears to me that as long as the frame "kit" comprises a plurality of parts it would be covered under this patent. Note that they say "The paintball gun kit can include, for example, a body, a grip, and a pneumatic assembly." Doesn't have to be a whole marker, just a plurality of marker parts. So if you want to sell an E-Blade and include that 3-way... crap, you're sued. Or sell a Hyperframe and include an on/off, you're sued. Or, theoretically, if you sell an electronic frame and include a battery, you're sued. Bottom line here is that this patent covers selling a package of more than one part for the same marker.


If they were doing this to sell guns in other countries why bother with a US patent? Our patents are not valid in other countries.

Its not adding up...

AGD
Keep in mind these are the same brothers who insist they patented all this crap to keep the Chinese from stealing their designs, even though none of those patents apply in China and SP gave them the blueprints when they opened factories there. When the Gardner brothers are involved, it rarely adds up.

[Tao]

I doubt this will hold up since they reinvented "packaging"

"Reduction in labor costs by removing assembly from the manufacturing process allows the gun kit to be sold to consumers for a lower price than the fully-constructed marker. The paintball gun kits could be sold in partially assembled or completely disassembled forms. The paintball gun kits could further be sold in many different configurations, with different upgrade options, body styles, material components, etc., in order to meet the desires and price ranges of a wider variety of consumers."

This sounds like the marketing function of packaging to me. :rolleyes:

[devildog]

am i the only one that still likes smart parts?

[Ninjeff]

am i the only one that still likes smart parts?
:rofl:

probably.

[Hilltop Customs]

am i the only one that still likes smart parts?

You better watch your back around these parts.....













lol just playin with ya......SP is just a business, they are in it for the money....and they are taking every means to that make money they can. Some people may have some integrity while trying to make money.....but thats not SP. Its ok though, no one will have to feel bad for SP when some other undrecutting company comes and knocks them off their game.