Original RT help needed

[Yudanja]

I recently bought a original RT from a local PB store. Refer to http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226761 for eye candy.

It looked in good condition and was assured it worked, I figured this gun was probably in need of a rebuild despite what they say. Regarding mags, I don't trust much of what shop owners say. I took it home and aired it up to see where we stand. It held air with no leaks, no surprise for a mag! I didn't fire it at home other than to degas it to unscrew the tank.

I took it into the store to shoot some paint through it, again with the sputtering and broke tons of balls. It would seem to fire fine and then start sputtering and eventually stop firing and the trigger would get stuck back. When it was firing, its velocity was +/- 50 or so.

The shop tech and I took apart the reg and man was it dirty. We cleaned it up a good bit and reoiled it. We still couldn't seem to get it to shoot right though, so I decided to order a rebuild kit and replace the orings. In the mean time, I thought I would step thru it and see if there was anything missing. I compared it to the RT reg blowup and it all seemed fine. Upon putting it all back together, I aired it up and it just vents air thru the barrel now. I took it back apart and somehow I lost the power tube oring. I got the kit in and put in the new oring and having the same issues. The oring seems to be a bit loose, it drops in with little resistance. It was either that, or one that was way too large for it, I seem to recall it having to be pulled out and pushed it.

Two questions: What else could be causing this? Should the power tube orinf

Disclaimer: this is my first round with any RT valve. I had a classic valved mag in the mid 90s that I stupidly sold when cash was hurting in the mid 2000's =) Damn thing was a champ, worked thru anything (except a crappy gold forgot-the-name aftermarket bolt)

[athomas]

The powertube oring will be loose fitting. The sputtering could be a result of a weak or worn bolt spring. The bolt spring is a consumable item on mags and should be replaced periodically anyway.

If you have a complete kit, replace all the orings and clean the valve, including the back where the velocity adjuster is. That way you know you are starting fresh. Don't forget to grease (not oil) the spring pack.

If the bolt still leaks heavily, you may need a shorter powertube spacer.

[Yudanja]

ah, didnt think about the power tube spacer. I did clean, but not grease the spring pack, what grease do you recommend?

I'll have to buy a power tube spacer kit i guess, or if I get lvl 10 does that take away the need for the spacers?

[questionful]

A lvl 10 kit does not need spacers.
And I don't know too much about greases, but I know centerflag uses white lithium grease on their regulators. Can't go wrong with that, so I bought some myself, more than I'll ever need for paintball applications for just $4.29. :)

[athomas]

The grease just keeps the springs from rusting and not working properly. The grease sticks better and lasts longer than oil that evaporates away. White lithium grease works well as do many others.

A level 10 kit is a nice upgrade to any mag. You won't need a spacer kit with a level 10. It comes with all parts required for any adjustments.

[Tao]

Yeah I had a bad problem with my new classic rt leaking. I just put a level 10 in it and that fixed the problem.

A spacer kit did come with my rt, but I could not get it to stop leaking...

[Yudanja]

Ok, I need to up my help thread.

I bought level 10 rather than a spacer kit. I followed the directions for level 10 starting with their default carrier. I tend to this I was only given 0, 0.5, 1, and 1.5 (I don't remember the grooves/dots).

First setup and gas up, the trigger rod get tension like normal but the gun does not fire. I started turning up the velocity and then air started to vent out of the back of the reg like a yard sprinkler. To clarify, I was turning it to the right(clockwise) for increasing the velocity I degassed and turned the velocity down and then it was back to just not wanting to fire.

I have tried all 4 carriers, pretty much the same thing. I have a on/off that bleeds air when unscrewing it, when i gas up it vents air out of the bleed hole until it is screwed in all the way then it stops. I have a gauge on the rail that reads 800psi or so input.

Thinking back, it initially leaked down the barrel badly, like full on pouring. I tried to shoot to clear it up/make a seal with the orings and it would like shoot 5 bursts. I have autolube for the orings and white lithium grease for the springs in the back.

Right now though, all 4 carriers gives tension to the trigger but it doesn't fire. turning up the velocity slowly, i can start to feel it leaking out of the back but still wont fire.

Any ideas guys, I am starting to get disappointed in this gun. Started off a nice 100 dollar deal but now its more like 200+ and still isn't working. Deal was too good to be true I guess.

[secretweaponevan]

Ok, I need to up my help thread.

I bought level 10 rather than a spacer kit. I followed the directions for level 10 starting with their default carrier. I tend to this I was only given 0, 0.5, 1, and 1.5 (I don't remember the grooves/dots).

First setup and gas up, the trigger rod get tension like normal but the gun does not fire. I started turning up the velocity and then air started to vent out of the back of the reg like a yard sprinkler. To clarify, I was turning it to the right(clockwise) for increasing the velocity I degassed and turned the velocity down and then it was back to just not wanting to fire.

I have tried all 4 carriers, pretty much the same thing. I have a on/off that bleeds air when unscrewing it, when i gas up it vents air out of the bleed hole until it is screwed in all the way then it stops. I have a gauge on the rail that reads 800psi or so input.

Thinking back, it initially leaked down the barrel badly, like full on pouring. I tried to shoot to clear it up/make a seal with the orings and it would like shoot 5 bursts. I have autolube for the orings and white lithium grease for the springs in the back.

Right now though, all 4 carriers gives tension to the trigger but it doesn't fire. turning up the velocity slowly, i can start to feel it leaking out of the back but still wont fire.

Any ideas guys, I am starting to get disappointed in this gun. Started off a nice 100 dollar deal but now its more like 200+ and still isn't working. Deal was too good to be true I guess.


You need a new reg piston. -> http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=112&categoryID=23

The new ones are set to work with the higher pressures needed by the LVL 10. You have an old one that was set for lower pressure.

Regulator Piston Assembly-Retro/RT
http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/images/product/112.jpg

Part Number: 000822

The Regulator Piston comes as an assembly that has a built in blow-off valve. Do not disassemble! Replace this part when air is venting out the back of the marker and you are shooting less than 300 FPS.

This part has been set to the stock higher pressure for the Level 10 bolt kit.
$25.

Enjoy your marker! She's beautiful!

[Yudanja]

anything else that might possibly be problematic? could it be a regulator nut, regulator springs or regulator valve pin assembly?

Just thinking, I would like to order all of it at once.

[secretweaponevan]

anything else that might possibly be problematic? could it be a regulator nut, regulator springs or regulator valve pin assembly?

Just thinking, I would like to order all of it at once.

It never hurts to have an o-ring replacement kit on hand:
http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=79&categoryID=23

And since your mag is showing her age:
Eventually springs wear out, so on the very slim chance that your Regulator Nut Assembly is coming close to bottoming out you might want to get:
http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=106&categoryID=23
&
http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=118&categoryID=23

[Yudanja]

Bumping this up as I need more help. Thanks for all the help so far, the gun is getting better. I didn't have the time to install the parts until now, still not quite working

She still isn't firing. I replaced the springs and put the new piston in today and I am happy to report there are no leaks. Problem is, there is nothing else either. I gas it up and it puts tension on the trigger but does not fire. I have turned the back cap in (clockwise) and no change, eventually it starts leaking out of the back end. It basically has all new orings, I replaced all that came a parts kit.

Any other ideas? Thanks guys

[athomas]

Now that you have new parts, you are probably getting bolt stick. Since you put the new regulator piston assembly in, you can now tune your level 10. Use the largest carrier size that doesn't leak.

[snoopay700]

Now that you have new parts, you are probably getting bolt stick. Since you put the new regulator piston assembly in, you can now tune your level 10. Use the largest carrier size that doesn't leak.
Bingo, it's probably way too small. If that doesn't work then come back, because i wouldn't know off the top of my head what the problem is, unless you didn't lube the o-ring that is in the carrier. And just so you know, as you break that o-ring in you'll have to move to smaller carriers gradually.

[Wicked_Silence]

Well here is a suggestion. Classic RT mags are air hogs, PERIOD. What is the output pressure of the reg your using on your tank. Once you install a lvl 10 kit into a classic RT, the operating pressure needed to run the gun properly increases a bit. Find someone that has an adjustable tank (A tank with an Armageddon would do wonders here) Hook the tank up and turn up the pressure to about 800 PSI input and see what happens. If nothing happens, turn it up a bit more to 850, and so on. I don't recommend going over 1000 PSI though. Figured I'd give you a cheap alternative to check before blowing money on moer parts.


My RT does the same thing we she gets low on air. I can feel the tension in the trigger, but she won't fire.

Let me know how you make out with this option.

[Yudanja]

I don't have immediate access to a adjustable tank but I have some other finding. My level X came with 4 carriers, 0/0.5/1/1.5

I tried with them all, 0 and 0.5 create the same problem, tension on the trigger but no firing. I tried the original bolt with a .225 power tube spacer (all I have) and it leaked a little until I fired, then it got stuck in reactive mode and went full auto.

I then tried carriers 1 and 1.5. 1 leaks down the barrel and erratically fires and 1.5 seems to leak and go full auto. I am going to try 1 and back the velocity out and test with holding hte trigger, I forgot to do that to test the on/off area.

Thanks for all the help, I see a light at the end of the tunnel. Cant wait to get it working and go out and play.

[Yudanja]

I was mistaken. tried them all again and 0-1 all have the same effect, tension but not firing. 1.5 causes a huge leak down the barrel. out of air now so I cant test for a bit.

Edit - I have a gauge on it and the the pressure shows just under 900.

[snoopay700]

Hmm, maybe you were too low on air? Is it a 400 psi output tank?

[Yudanja]

no, HP tank. 850 is what its supposed to be, Dye Throttle. I was at 2500psi in the tank when I started and the gauge is in 1 of the 6 air ports near the reg, so I am assuming that means the reg is getting 850ish coming into it.

[snoopay700]

no, HP tank. 850 is what its supposed to be, Dye Throttle. I was at 2500psi in the tank when I started and the gauge is in 1 of the 6 air ports near the reg, so I am assuming that means the reg is getting 850ish coming into it.
Hmm, that's really really odd... i wonder if there could be dirt in the reg or something. I'm really baffled, ugh, maybe rowing practice will help me think.

[secretweaponevan]

Take off the grips and see if manually activating the sear with a screwdriver or allen wrench will get the marker to fire. I'm thinking that someone futzed with your trigger rod and it might be too short now.

If that doesn't work, check to make sure that your on/off is assembled correctly.

Be sure to turn up the velocity, LVL 10 needs more pressure.

After that, tune your lvl 10.

[Wicked_Silence]

You don't turn up the velocity. You turn up your input pressure. Thats 2 completely unrelated things. I've seen lvl 10 bolts that were turned that need a minimum operating inout pressure of 900 PSI from the tank.