Smith & Wesson M&P9

[Remington]

Just curious if anyone has had any experience with an S&W M&P in 9mm? I've been looking at the Glock 19, the S&W, and maybe Ruger's new SR9 (little hesitant on this one) and I would like to hear some opinions on any of those. So, let's hear 'em! :D

[paintballwannab]

I've shot a friend of mines, fine weapon. Easy to disassemble, good quality, my friend has had a few issues with FTF with certian HP's
I just didn't like the feel of shooting it, didn't sit in my hand well.

Glock....well its a glock, another fine weapon thats easy to disassemble and very reliable. Again though hold it to see if it feels right in your hand. They ride low in the hand which is great for shootability.

Ruger I know nothing about, sorry.


Also look into a Springfield XD, very similar to a glock but a smaller more comfy grip frame, a grip handle saftey. My favorite of all my guns.

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/10/29018592975.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic/6895201)

[punkncat]

Yes I had the pleasure of shooting a couple of XD's in both .45 and 9mm and they were both superb.

[Lohman446]

I despised Glocks until I shot one - now I have two and am transitioning one into my primary carry weapon. Looking at third as well.

With the exception of my Sig Sauer they point and shoot more naturally than anything I have shot in a long time. But thats a subjective thing of course, I recommend you try them and see what works best for you.

Handling both I liked the feel of the Glock far better than the M+P personally.

Saw an add in one of the magazines that the XD is now available with an optional thumb safety. Haven't looked for one with it. My worry about the XD is you see a lot of used ones for sale compared to Glocks, thats telling me people are not as happy with them as they expected.

[Destructo6]

I've never been impressed with any of S&W's autos. They just feel like junk and have had a very poor reputation.

Of those that you list, the Glock seems best, but, personally, I could never get used to the grip angle.

Have you considered a SIG P226? I have an old one (W. Germany era) that feel great and shoots laser beams, even though it rattles like crazy..

[Pneumagger]

Just curious if anyone has had any experience with an S&W M&P in 9mm? I've been looking at the Glock 19, the S&W, and maybe Ruger's new SR9 (little hesitant on this one) and I would like to hear some opinions on any of those. So, let's hear 'em! :D
The M&P is a good gun... it's basically the older Sigma model with a very much improved trigger and better ergonomics. Pretty much like any other glock I've ever shot as well.
I'd have to reccomend a used glock simply because they are plentiful, reliable, and going to be cheaper because of supply.

If your looking for a plasic pistol, stick to Glock, M&P, XD and Khar.
I'd pass on the Ruger. Great revolvers, great rifles. Poor autoloaders.
("Poor" isn't the word I wanted to use... but I didn't want a warning)

The Kahr's are very good quality and great pistols for concealed carry. The only downside is that they are single stack so only have about half the capacity of others... but they are darned thin and compact because of it.
The XD's are pretty good themselves. OK aftermarket and good quality. Personally, I prefer the Glocks and M&P's over the XD's because the XD's seem bulkier and feel like the bore axis sits higher over my hand.

If your willing to waste money for the sake of brand-name, the Wilson Combat ADP is a very compact choice as well.
The fixed barrel system would be very accurate and conducive to accepting small boosterless Suppressors.
Plus it's a Wilson :cool:

To compound your choice even more, I highly reccommend the original S&W Sigma SW9VE.
It's basically an M&P that looks like a glock with a 12lb trigger pull. They can be had for $200-$300 new at shows and shops. They are very reliable for plinking and self defense.
If you can live with a heavy trigger pull, nothing beats it for the price. I got the SW40VE (.40s&w) for $200 and wouldn't hesitate one second to get an SW9VE for the same price next to an MSRP Glock or XD.
The triggers aren't quite as bad as people make them sound though... I can make a <6" group @ 10 yds if I shoot slowly for accuracy. .
(Granted, I can make 2-3" groups with my 1911 and ruger mkIII)
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/jrm33/080412_182629.jpg

[Lohman446]

I have a Sigma in 40 - its not the hard trigger pull that bothers me its the LONG trigger pull - it seems longer than my J frame revolver. It is so long I find myself actually adjusting my grip as I pull and that throws my accuracy into fits.

That being said they are probably one of the better guns for the money.

The problem I have with Kahrs is the number of failures to feed that one sees (and hears reported) during the break in period. While I agree every gun you might depend on for defense should be used and practiced with (including failure to feed / fire drills) I find the number of FFF in the Kahrs alarming. My Glock has never failed to feed or fire except in self induced failures for the purpose of drills (intentionally unloaded ammo). \

S+W keeps saying whatever pistol they introduce is "the next big thing". We heard it with the Sigma for instance. I don't buy it with the M+P until I see it.

[Spider-TW]

Just curious if anyone has had any experience with an S&W M&P in 9mm? I've been looking at the Glock 19, the S&W, and maybe Ruger's new SR9 (little hesitant on this one) and I would like to hear some opinions on any of those. So, let's hear 'em! :D
The quote is for me to stay on track... :rolleyes:

I have had a Glock 17 for almost 20 years and it is still one of my favorites to shoot. I just traded a Sig P220 (.45) for a Glock 23 (compact .40, new). From that trade, I would add that a comfortable grip is not as important as a comfortable shoot (if you are looking at comfort at all). I traded the Sig because the grip angle put the pressure in the bottom of my hand instead of the web. Even with hogue grips, I couldn't keep the recoil consistent and the accuracy wasn't what I expected from a Sig or any 1911 (.45, .40 or 10mm). It's hard find someone else's gun to shoot, but if you can find a similar model with the same frame at least, I would try that.

For S&W, I've only shot the XD in .40. While the XD was more comfortable, the Glock sub-compact .40 (27) was more accurate for me. I would say it was my Glock sight trained eyeball, but my most accurate pistol is a ruger blackhawk. That was probably with +P ammo, so weigh that in.

**edit
I had a guy try to trade me a used Glock sub-compact in 10mm. It was a thought, for about a second. If you know you like 9mm's don't let anyone try to 'upgrade' you.

[Lohman446]

I've shot the G27 (40 subcompact) and found the recoil unacceptably snappy. I can't imagine the 10MM.

[Spider-TW]

I've shot the G27 (40 subcompact) and found the recoil unacceptably snappy. I can't imagine the 10MM.
Exactly. I bet that's why he still had it and not much else.

[Remington]

Thanks for all the great info guys! I think I've narrowed it down to the Glock and the S&W, with the Glock slightly ahead at the moment because it has a .22LR conversion kit available. With that being said, however, I read somewhere that the internals of the S&W are very similar to the Glock so my question is: anyone think a Glock conversion kit would work on the S&W? ;) I'm guessing no, but as I haven't seen the internals of either pistol, I honestly have no idea.

[Lohman446]

:) I know a Glock slide will fit on the old Sigma frames. No that does not answer your question.

[Pneumagger]

Thanks for all the great info guys! I think I've narrowed it down to the Glock and the S&W, with the Glock slightly ahead at the moment because it has a .22LR conversion kit available. With that being said, however, I read somewhere that the internals of the S&W are very similar to the Glock so my question is: anyone think a Glock conversion kit would work on the S&W? ;) I'm guessing no, but as I haven't seen the internals of either pistol, I honestly have no idea.

No, the barrels and barrel links links do differ enough that one cannot function the other.
I don't remember exactly, but one barrel fits in the other's slide but not visa versa.
And as Lohman mentioned, the slides do seem to fit the others' rails.
They are VERY close designs, but not interchangable.

A lil' history lesson:

Glocks are nice. Teh FBI usez teh Glockz... they must be teh shznit.
The S&W Sigmas enter the picture. People enjoy variety.
Glock sues S&W for design infringment. S&W sulks in contempt.
HS2000 lurks in the shadows.
S&W reintroduces the Sigma as the SW*VE model... the trigger pull is about 1/2" and 12lbs. People chastise variety.
Springfield imports the HS2000 from Croatia as the XD. A formidable opponent, the XD gains the people's approval.
S&W, remodels the sigma into the M&P. The problems they (purposefully) designed into the SW*VE have been removed. People commend S&W for the "new" great design. :rolleyes:
All three pistols coexist peacefully. The venerable Glock, the young and budding XD, and the redheaded step-child M&P.

IMO, go to a gun show. Get a used glock. Buy a LWD conversion barrel.
You now have a dual caliber pistol that cost less than the others and also has quadruple the aftermarket choices - not to mention the negative/evil liberal associative connotations. :cool:

[paintballwannab]

Glocks are nice. Teh FBI usez teh Glockz... they must be teh shznit.




That and Glock offers one hell of a discount to law enforcement......a discount that can't be touched by any other company. :cheers:

[SCpoloRicker]

H&K USP? I've got a full-frame 9mm, and I'm thinking of switching to the compact model. Love it, particularly the ability to switch from either lefty or righty for all the functions.

[Spider-TW]

H&K USP? I've got a full-frame 9mm, and I'm thinking of switching to the compact model. Love it, particularly the ability to switch from either lefty or righty for all the functions.
Is it accurate? I tried a .40 and couldn't do very well with it, so I asked the owner (of previously demonstrated ability) to 'show me', but he couldn't do any better. I expected better from H&K and it could have been the choice of ammo.

[SCpoloRicker]

I did not care for the .40 USP, but I'm not a fan of that round anyways. I'm not really the best person to speak to accuracy of various models.

[Lohman446]

The 40 is not a well conceived modern handgun round.

Little history lesson:

The FBI indicates it might be open to a new round

S+W gets hold of information about the Bren Ten project - a project to design a modern handgun (and ammo) from the ground up. A project that had such heralds as Jeff Cooper. However, the company folded before its concept could be brought fully to market. The 10MM is born in this concept

Influential people in the FBI have heard of this project.

S+W designs a gun from the ground up to handle this new round.

This new round far exceeds the 9MM and .45 in ballistic gelatin testing. Noone seems to note that the 9MM is hampered by the use of poor bullet choice (147 grain). These tests are fatally flawed (each gun uses only a single ammunition). Regardless the 10MM is far better in these tests in both stopping power (as defined by the FBI "experts") and accuracy than the 9MM or 45 in the situations tested.

The 10MM is an awesome round. Testing and theory puts it up there with the the obscure 41 magnum as possibly being the best "reasonable" cartridge for stopping power. Its .40 caliber and allows the use of high capacity magazines.

The FBI adopts the full power 10MM.

The FBI finds out that some of its cadets and smaller agents (many of whom have limited firearms experience) are developing bad habits in trying to tame the 10MMs recoil with full power loads

The FBI instructs its ammo manufacturers to come up with a downloaded version.

This downloaded version never sees great testing for the characteristics that made it the top load in previous testing.

S+W has an epiphany. A downloaded 10MM uses less powder. Less powder means a shorter case may actually be beneficial. S+W develops (quickly) the .40 S+W.

The 40 S+W performs comparbly to the dowloaded 10MM (of course). Comparisons to the 10MM and the 40 fail to mention they are comparing a downloaded 10 and full power loads for the 10 still far exceed the 40.

In the meantime very little advancement has been done with the 9MM.

The 40 (with questionable bullet choice) is compared to the 9MM (with questionable bullet choice). The 40 does better than the 9MM. There is still this stage where the 9MM is being made better with the horrible choice of the 147 grain bullet. Noone bothers to note that the 9MM with high quality 115 grain ammo is so close to in line with the 40 that there is virtually no difference.

The 40 is marketed as the high capacity ultimate stopping power cartridge. Those marketing it market it as the answer to those who cannot decide between a 9MM or 45. 9MM capacity with 45 stopping power. Noone seems to mention the 45 has better stopping power. NOONE points out the tremendous advantages of full power loads in the 10MM.

The 40 S+W (short and weak to 10MM fans) is born and rides its hype to popularity (don't get me wrong the 40 is a good cartridge, as good as and marginally better than the beloved 9MM).

People hype this as the modern handgun ammunition, very seldom mentioning that its simply the red headed step child of an effort (some would argue successful) to build an awesome fighting round (the 10MM).

The 40S+W is forced into platforms built for the 9MM. Without platforms built ground up for it there is no comfortable "home". There is no modern weapon built with consideration of the .40 as its own individual cartridge in the design. Its simply a modified 9MM platform.

Someone somewhere decides that a .40 cartridge can be necked down to 9MM. The 357 Sig is born. Thats another whole discussion

[Steelrat]

I just hate the .40 because the damn round is so wide, rechambering the same round a few times actually pushes is back into the case, which can easily cause a misfire. My .40 sig does this ALL THE TIME. With my 9mm sig, I could rechamber the same round over and over without any issues. The .40 is just too wide to smoothly go up the feed ramp.

If I could, I'd still be using the 9mm.

[Lohman446]

The 40 (and to some degree the 357 Sig) were answering a question that could have been answered better at the time by changes to the 9MM ammunition than by revamping entire guns. Granted the 40 was not an answer to the 9MM stopping power issues, it was an answer to the 10MM recoil issues.

When you start comparing 40, 357SIG, and 9MM using the best cartridges for each (in terms of ballistic testing) you find there is really not much difference in terms of stopping powers

Saw a Glock 20 (10MM) used today for $450. It almost came home with me :) It would have if practice ammo didn't hover around $30 a box.

The purpose of this post: Get a 9MM - ammos cheaper. Practice more :) Its worth it

[Steelrat]

Agreed. Good 9mm ammo is just as good as most .40 or .357 sig when it comes to stopping power, and 9mm practice is definately cheaper.

[Pneumagger]

Steelrat, They MAKE you use a .40?
What if you can demonstrate proficiency with a 10mm and you wanted that instead?
IMO, there should be a bracket of minimum and maximum cartridge specs and a list of approved platforms.

Personally, if I didn't have to worry about concealing something I'd weild a Para P14 with a deep stack of HST +P in the well.
Accurate, reliable, good capacity, and plenty of power on tap. The only debate there would be 185gr or 230gr :cool:

[LegumeOfTerror]

I just hate the .40 because the damn round is so wide, rechambering the same round a few times actually pushes is back into the case, which can easily cause a misfire. My .40 sig does this ALL THE TIME. With my 9mm sig, I could rechamber the same round over and over without any issues. The .40 is just too wide to smoothly go up the feed ramp.

If I could, I'd still be using the 9mm.

any round will have setback if re chambered frequently, which can lead to increased chamber pressures and damage to the firearm. its a bad idea in general to re-chamber the same round over and over, which is why whenever i empty my handgun the round that was in the chamber goes to the bottom of the magazine, where as a lot of people cycle between the top two over and over.

[Steelrat]

any round will have setback if re chambered frequently, which can lead to increased chamber pressures and damage to the firearm. its a bad idea in general to re-chamber the same round over and over, which is why whenever i empty my handgun the round that was in the chamber goes to the bottom of the magazine, where as a lot of people cycle between the top two over and over.

The point is, I can't even do it twice with the same round. That's just wrong. Obviously you aren't going to do it 20 times, but the .40 definately has issue with this.

[Lohman446]

Steelrat, They MAKE you use a .40?
What if you can demonstrate proficiency with a 10mm and you wanted that instead?
IMO, there should be a bracket of minimum and maximum cartridge specs and a list of approved platforms.

Personally, if I didn't have to worry about concealing something I'd weild a Para P14 with a deep stack of HST +P in the well.
Accurate, reliable, good capacity, and plenty of power on tap. The only debate there would be 185gr or 230gr :cool:

I'd either go with a Sig P226? in 357 Sig or a Glock 20. The 20 gives you 16 shots of hot loaded 10MM. The only question would be if I wanted a round I could double tap with or not.

Than again, if concealability is not an issue there are a few good 12 gauges and combat carbines I would pick over any pistol :) .

[LegumeOfTerror]

The point is, I can't even do it twice with the same round. That's just wrong. Obviously you aren't going to do it 20 times, but the .40 definately has issue with this.

do you have to use a particular brand of ammo? some brands set back worse than others depending on how they seat the bullet. some use a thin sealant around it that you can break with repeated chambering, and most dont recommend more than 3 feeds with any single round. JHPs are more prone to setback because they don't feed as smoothly. your the only person ive ever heard complain about this with regards to a particular caliber, and I'm pretty sure its not due to the wide bullet or .45s everywhere would unseat like mad. what brand are you using? are they all from the same lot?

[Steelrat]

do you have to use a particular brand of ammo? some brands set back worse than others depending on how they seat the bullet. some use a thin sealant around it that you can break with repeated chambering, and most dont recommend more than 3 feeds with any single round. JHPs are more prone to setback because they don't feed as smoothly. your the only person ive ever heard complain about this with regards to a particular caliber, and I'm pretty sure its not due to the wide bullet or .45s everywhere would unseat like mad. what brand are you using? are they all from the same lot?

Federal law enforcement agencies have issued bulletins in regards to this issue with .40 JHP rounds.

Trust me, I put thousands of rounds downrange every year, the .40 is FAR worse than the 9mm in this regard. It might also just be my Sig, but then again, I think Sig quality has gone right in the toilet.

[Pneumagger]

Federal law enforcement agencies have issued bulletins in regards to this issue with .40 JHP rounds.

Trust me, I put thousands of rounds downrange every year, the .40 is FAR worse than the 9mm in this regard. It might also just be my Sig, but then again, I think Sig quality has gone right in the toilet.

Odd how sigs have gone down in quality and nearly doubled in price since they started to become popular.
IMO, get a glock.


What Movie!?!



Sam Gerard: [Referring to his Glock] These things are so cool. They can shoot underwater, pour sand in them and they'll shoot. They shoot every time.
Sam Gerard: [looking at Royce's Gun] Got a back-up weapon?
John Royce: Never had the need.
Sam Gerard: Get one.
Sam Gerard: [hands back Royce's gun] Keep it in your suit unless I tell you to take it out. Get yourself a Glock and lose that nickel-plated sissy pistol.

[Spider-TW]

The 40 is not a well conceived modern handgun round.
...
Add to that;

Ammo companies now make +P and +P+ 40 cal ammo for law enforcement, which pushes the 40 back toward the standard 10mm load.

[Lohman446]

Add to that;

Ammo companies now make +P and +P+ 40 cal ammo for law enforcement, which pushes the 40 back toward the standard 10mm load.


Define the standard? The hot (original) 10MM far exceed what you can get into the 40 just because of space constraints.

The 40 can easily compete with the FBI "standard" downloaded ones. In fact thats the entire idea behind it.

Even Corbon doesn't hot load the 10MM at this point :( so calling the downloaded one standard would be correct. No purpose in shooting the downloaded ones, as the 40 S+W was designed to meet those specs in a shorter case.

Back to hyping the 357SIG as the ultimate modern handgun round (not counting that little 5.62?? thing).

[Spider-TW]

Define the standard? The standard production load pressure (SAAMI specs) for 10mm is 37,500 psi while the 40 cal is 35,000 psi. Put a +P rated load in a 40 and you are back to around 37,000 psi to 38,000 psi. Same bullet, same pressure, but the faster powder can make it shoot different. From that angle, the 40 +P can pack the same firepower, but it doesn't seem as accurate overall as the 10mm and 41 mag for the same energy.

On the other hand, Briley makes a 1911 in 40 that is very accurate and nice to shoot, but those guys don't count when you talk 'generally'.

It's all in what you shoot best. :D

[Lohman446]

http://www.bren-ten.com/website/id7.html

Some pretty interesting reading on modern handgun cartridges

[Spider-TW]

http://www.bren-ten.com/website/id7.html

Some pretty interesting reading on modern handgun cartridges
Good stuff.

Anyone try a .45 GAP? :p

[Steelrat]

Odd how sigs have gone down in quality and nearly doubled in price since they started to become popular.
IMO, get a glock.


What Movie!?!

US Marshalls.

Glocks are meh for me, I'm probably going to get an H&K P2000 SK LEM.

[Spider-TW]

US Marshalls.

Glocks are meh for me, I'm probably going to get an H&K P2000 SK LEM.
I checked out what I am remembering as an H&K P30 9mm this weekend. Other than the rear mounted hammer drop, it seemed very nice, with the 'nice' price of $985.

[Steelrat]

I checked out what I am remembering as an H&K P30 9mm this weekend. Other than the rear mounted hammer drop, it seemed very nice, with the 'nice' price of $985.

One thing H&K is NOT is cheap.

[Soopa Villain17]

Thanks for all the great info guys! I think I've narrowed it down to the Glock and the S&W, with the Glock slightly ahead at the moment because it has a .22LR conversion kit available. With that being said, however, I read somewhere that the internals of the S&W are very similar to the Glock so my question is: anyone think a Glock conversion kit would work on the S&W? ;) I'm guessing no, but as I haven't seen the internals of either pistol, I honestly have no idea.


there is also a .50 cal kit for glocks too. :shooting:

[kosmo]

Crap, youre still alive?

[Lohman446]

Lose a bet there Kosmo?

[SCpoloRicker]

3 Whly?