Why not restart production on E-Mags and X-Mags?

[boroballer]

Now, I think we all know about the poop that went on with Smart Parts patenting the electro stuff in paintball and serving Cease and Desist letters to companies (AKA, etc) that continued to produce said markers without their permission. Well, these days, dozens of companies produce electro markers, and I'm pretty sure none of them (Spyder, DP, WGP, PMI, Bob Long, Tippmann, PE, etc) pay royalties.

That said, why not crank up the old machines and start churning out our beloved mags again. Sure, the market is small, but we've got the technology, and if we produce enough (granted, again, I'm unaware how deep the market is) then the per unit price is sure to be somewhat lower than it was a few years ago.

It's just with E-Mags and X-Mags selling for as much as they do now, and Smart Parts being seemingly inept at enforcing their patents, why not stop whining about how much we hate the Gardeners and their evil empire and start making some competition.

[MANN]

because the demand is not high enough.

[questionful]

Are you sure none of them pay royalties?? I'm no expert on the matter, but I thought WDP and DYE were the only electro-producing companies that didn't pay royalties, and that was because of some technical lawyer stuff from the start.

[snoopay700]

I tell you want, find about 100 people (i think that's what tom said it would take) and get them to pay AGD the money in advance for the emags to insure that the money gets paid to them and people don't back out, and then they might make emags again.

[Tunaman]

I'll build you 100 emags right now. Show me the money! ;) :D

[Resurection]

I'll build you 100 emags right now. Show me the money! ;) :D
Show me the email/phone logs! Call me back buddy!

[Smoothice]

I'll build you 100 emags right now. Show me the money! ;) :D
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x57/smoothice15/themoney.jpg

[Spencer]

I tell you want, find about 100 people (i think that's what tom said it would take) and get them to pay AGD the money in advance for the emags to insure that the money gets paid to them and people don't back out, and then they might make emags again.

Thats rediculous, thats not how you sell a product..

BUT I would buy one for sake of it..

[SithSteve]

Show me the email...

I second that... still waiting for a reply too.

[snoopay700]

Thats rediculous, thats not how you sell a product..

BUT I would buy one for sake of it..
Well i was being ludicrous yes, but Tom even said in a previous post that he would need 100 people or so to say that they would actually buy one, and so many would also pay in advance, mainly because otherwise it would be a loss. I could be wrong, but i'm fairly certain it was something along those lines.

[questionful]

That's not how you sell a product, that's why they're not selling it. :tard:

[Ruler_Mark]

mmmm if they would make another run of xmags im sure you could get 100 people no problem. Especially if it had a new milling pattern

[ThePixelGuru]

AGD backed out of the electro market because of Smart Parts' actions. It's my understanding that they're not willing to risk a legal fiasco to make more E/XMags.

As for the list of companies in the first post that supposedly don't pay royalties, better double check that list. I know for a fact that some of them do and some of them don't, but other companies I have no idea about. It's hard to nail down exactly which companies do pay royalties to Smart Parts, because these license agreements almost always go hand-in-hand with a gag order.

[BigEvil]

I'll build you 100 emags right now. Show me the money! ;) :D

How about one purple one? :p :D

[questionful]

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x57/smoothice15/themoney.jpg
That should cover it!

What emails are we (you) talking about?

About how much would each X-mag cost if 100 were made pre-paid? And would any changes be made? Like in the electronics and whatnot?

[Spencer]

That's not how you sell a product, that's why they're not selling it. :tard:

They should then sell the company to someone who would invest the time and money into marketing these, without the smart parts buisness style, meaning the great service of AGD but actually wanted to move forward and still be known...

[craltal]

AGD backed out of the electro market because of Smart Parts' actions. It's my understanding that they're not willing to risk a legal fiasco to make more E/XMags.


Actually they weren't profitable so the idea of discontinuing them was floating around anyway, the timing just happened to coincide and made the decision easier at least that's what Tom had posted on the issue. AGD never received a C&D order that's just rumors.

[snoopay700]

You know, all this talk about reviving the x-mag, when truthfully if we were to see another gun come from AGD i would prefer it be something new. I know they're capable of it, the market is just really bad right now. Honestly, if Tom was still invested into making a new mag or whatever, he'd make something evolutionary i think.

[OneUp]

MacDev has to and it is Aussie based. It would make sense that others also have to.


Now, I think we all know about the poop that went on with Smart Parts patenting the electro stuff in paintball and serving Cease and Desist letters to companies (AKA, etc) that continued to produce said markers without their permission. Well, these days, dozens of companies produce electro markers, and I'm pretty sure none of them (Spyder, DP, WGP, PMI, Bob Long, Tippmann, PE, etc) pay royalties.

That said, why not crank up the old machines and start churning out our beloved mags again. Sure, the market is small, but we've got the technology, and if we produce enough (granted, again, I'm unaware how deep the market is) then the per unit price is sure to be somewhat lower than it was a few years ago.

It's just with E-Mags and X-Mags selling for as much as they do now, and Smart Parts being seemingly inept at enforcing their patents, why not stop whining about how much we hate the Gardeners and their evil empire and start making some competition.

[going_home]

That should cover it!

What emails are we (you) talking about?

About how much would each X-mag cost if 100 were made pre-paid? And would any changes be made? Like in the electronics and whatnot?

Whats the price of one of those so called "special edition" Ego's ..... about $1800.00 isnt it ?
I'd say if you could line up at least 100 payments of $1800.00 for another Xmag run, that
would certainly make the "AGD powers that be" get real interested.
I'd bet theres some hard core maggers that would want more than one lol.

:rolleyes:

[Ninjeff]

You know, all this talk about reviving the x-mag, when truthfully if we were to see another gun come from AGD i would prefer it be something new. I know they're capable of it, the market is just really bad right now. Honestly, if Tom was still invested into making a new mag or whatever, he'd make something evolutionary i think.


Bingo.

As much as i LOVED my emag, there isnt a real need to make another run. You might as well buy from the used market. AGD made such a high quality marker it isnt like any of them are getting horribly worn out. I know my emag was old, but still looked brand new (dont know why i sold it :cry: )

So, honestly, there just isnt really a point to another run of them.

That all being said, a NEW E-Mag, as in, NEWLY designed would sell like mad. I gaurantee you if someone form AGD said "If 100 people pre-paid for a new E-Mag (new design) we will make them" That 100 people worth of slots would fill up so fast your head would spin. Heck, i dont even think they would have to give us a picture, or even an IDEA of what they were. I would drop money on one just by reading "Brand New Design! Get Your E-Mag slot NOW!"
Boom, im sold. Thats how much faith i have in AGD. I would trust them almost blindly to deliver something that would amaze me.

[chafnerjr]

You know, all this talk about reviving the x-mag, when truthfully if we were to see another gun come from AGD i would prefer it be something new. I know they're capable of it, the market is just really bad right now. Honestly, if Tom was still invested into making a new mag or whatever, he'd make something evolutionary i think.

Amen brother :clap: :clap:

I'd love an X, but I can get one if I just pull $$$ out of my butt from other things. Anyone here can already for a price (two up right now in B/S/T).

My only question is... how much better can it get??? We're as light as we can get without risking the integrity of the unit... Were about as fast and as accurate as they can get (barring breaking the current laws of physics)... but because there isn't any real MAJOR COMPANY support we're all forced to make our own guns... our own parts and mods... I think it fair to say that the community that the Mag has right now wouldn't be what it was if they we're cranking out new models, especially if the company was bought out and bastardized into making new versions covered in composite crap with the name like '09 Electro-Super-Mag Xtreme! Know what I mean...

Here's what I want Tom... End world hunger... until then sit back and enjoy your engineering marvel... This decades old design (OK OK depending on which valve and bolt we're talking about) still competes with the highest end markers today for a fraction of the price... Life is good fellas :dance:


P.S> Hey, Tom... just in case you do have some sort of revolutionary new design that puts everything I just said to shame... put me on the list for one :cheers:

[snoopay700]

Bingo.

As much as i LOVED my emag, there isnt a real need to make another run. You might as well buy from the used market. AGD made such a high quality marker it isnt like any of them are getting horribly worn out. I know my emag was old, but still looked brand new (dont know why i sold it :cry: )

So, honestly, there just isnt really a point to another run of them.

That all being said, a NEW E-Mag, as in, NEWLY designed would sell like mad. I gaurantee you if someone form AGD said "If 100 people pre-paid for a new E-Mag (new design) we will make them" That 100 people worth of slots would fill up so fast your head would spin. Heck, i dont even think they would have to give us a picture, or even an IDEA of what they were. I would drop money on one just by reading "Brand New Design! Get Your E-Mag slot NOW!"
Boom, im sold. Thats how much faith i have in AGD. I would trust them almost blindly to deliver something that would amaze me.
Hey hey now, i forbid them from pursuing something like this until 4 years from now when i start my career as an engineer and can afford one. :rofl:

Seriously though, i know it won't happen, but i'd love to see a new design from them.

[cockerpunk]

yeah, all those companies you listed do pay royalties.

[AGD]

Ok you guys tell me, what would be 'revolutionary" and actually producible.

DON'T ask for:

More efficiency
More accuracy
More speed
Lighter weight
Smaller size
less kick
cheap price

These have all been done and are no longer selling points.

Its certainly not clear to me what the paintball masses would consider a revolutionary product. Especially since most recent products have been trashed before they became popular. Note the eggo, HALO, the original Matrix, etc.

AGD

[mag79]

How is it that Tuna can sell a brand new emag and airgun cant? :confused:

[snoopay700]

How is it that Tuna can sell a brand new emag and airgun cant? :confused:
He's got the stuff to make it from when he bought it way back when i assume.

And Tom, the perfect gun would be the one you would build for yourself. Granted, i don't know how easy it would be to produce, but i like your whole idea of making it have no reg and be simply regulated by the dwell and such, and the chrono at the end of the barrel to make it so you could shoot almost until your tank was empty (and you could make the barrel take inserts so the problem with different barrels wouldn't be a problem) and all of your other ideas. I still would gladly buy the marker you would make for yourself, although i know that the next step that you guys would take wouldn't be cheap, and i don't know if you could produce it, but yeah, that's basically what i would want in a new mag.

Or to see the emag come back out or something, but i like the perfect one you described since it had a smaller battery, and would allow for probably the smallest marker on the market.

[Ruler_Mark]

A gun that removes the blimp all together and is still easy to load.

extremely lightweight and efficent are required now a-days to even be considered by the 'agglets'



Personally I think a gun that is mech but has the trigger of a electro would be excelent, including extra firing modes like ramp would be pretty revolutionary. Couple that with an integrated pnuematic hopper system :cheers:

[acropilot19]

A gun that removes the blimp all together and is still easy to load.



I think this is the next step in the evolution of the marker. Developing a system that is high capacity & feeds from the side or below, and that is simple and reliable. We put men on the moon, is this not attainable?
:confused:

[Beemer]

I think this is the next step in the evolution of the marker. Developing a system that is high capacity & feeds from the side or below, and that is simple and reliable. We put men on the moon, is this not attainable?
:confused:

Of course it is. It just aint on the market. Or is it?

[questionful]

Ok you guys tell me, what would be 'revolutionary" and actually producible.
Well, I don't know if this would be actually producible, but. . .
One day during one of my many boring classes I was trying to think of a way to make a valve better than the RT valve. It occurred to me that the awesomeness of the RT valve came from the order of the stages the air went through. A classic valve goes: regulator-->on/off-->DC (Dump Chamber). The RT goes: on/off-->DC-->regulator. So what occurred to me that day was that the best valve system would HAVE A REACTIVE TRIGGER and still go DC-->on/off-->regulator. I forget what my reasoning was against DC-->regulator-->on/off, but I remember I had some. Anyway, I'm pretty sure DC-->on/off-->regulator. is physically impossible, but I'm not sure. I'm no genius. It's late and I have no idea what I'm saying, but I remember I thought it was brilliant at the time (how most of my stupid ideas start out :tard: :rofl: ).

Oh and two other things that might be considered revolutionary. One, is an RT valve that is made specifically for the purpose of performance. AGD's RT valves, are too similar to classic valves, maybe for the interchangeability of parts, maybe for some other reason, I don't know. But what I was thinking is that an RT valve could be made that is pretty much a single assembly, placed inside of a dump chamber. It would be a cylinder about a centimeter in diameter, and it would go through the dump chamber in the same orientation as AGD on/off assys. It would have a spool regulator, which would wrap around the on/off. I can never explain anything, perhaps I'll scan up a sketch later. But basically it would keep the RT's on/off-->DC-->regulator, but have all the assemblies in one, in the hopes of having everything go faster, and be more compact.

The second thing is an integrated forcefeed thingy that goes in the space a warp usually occupies. Perhaps integrating hopper, warp, and gun would cut down on some of the weight, size, and appearance that scared people off. What would be awesome is if it were pneumatically powered. But that would kill efficiency. . . Anyway, I think a big push at the same old battles could be considered revolutionary. The RT valve was genius, Mr. Kaye, but you know making something that awesome was just asking for something even better.

PS
Instead of trying to make a better gun, maybe you could just include a Paintball Strategy Guide with all the guns you sell. That might make more of an impact on today's paintball.

PPS
No matter what, chuff chuff! :headbang:

[pyrodragon]

I think this is the next step in the evolution of the marker. Developing a system that is high capacity & feeds from the side or below, and that is simple and reliable. We put men on the moon, is this not attainable?
:confused:

doesn't the q-marker qualify since it feds from the bottom? don't know how u image getting rid of the blimp when u gonna fed the marker ammo.

[BigEvil]

Ok you guys tell me, what would be 'revolutionary" and actually producible.

I dont think 'new' and 'revolutionary' is needed in this case. There already is a pre-built market for something like an Xmag. How big of a market, and how many can be sold is the real question. Probably not enough to make it worth it.

If there was to be another run of say Xmag, I would think that there would need to be something different about them as opposed to the old ones. (trigger, feedneck, something to distinguish it)

My$.02

:cheers:

[questionful]

Or Just a combined body/rail, but not meant for electronics, with the interchangeable breaches and awesome milling (or no milling).

[Ruler_Mark]

doesn't the q-marker qualify since it feds from the bottom? don't know how u image getting rid of the blimp when u gonna fed the marker ammo.


Q pods are not that easy to reload very fast off the field, I'm sure some people are good but it cannot top a hopper.

[varq]

Ok you guys tell me, what would be 'revolutionary" and actually producible.

DON'T ask for:

More efficiency
More accuracy
More speed
Lighter weight
Smaller size
less kick
cheap price

These have all been done and are no longer selling points.

Its certainly not clear to me what the paintball masses would consider a revolutionary product. Especially since most recent products have been trashed before they became popular. Note the eggo, HALO, the original Matrix, etc.

AGD


Alot of good ideas.. I would like to add this: eliminate the hopper... Since we all wear pod harnesses.. how about an integrated system where you wear the 4 pods on your back but they run right to the gun... warp left or warp right... never have to reload or switch hands and your wearing the pods anyway... this alone would lighten the gun and allow you to be more efficient

[pk5]

Alot of good ideas.. I would like to add this: eliminate the hopper... Since we all wear pod harnesses.. how about an integrated system where you wear the 4 pods on your back but they run right to the gun... warp left or warp right... never have to reload or switch hands and your wearing the pods anyway... this alone would lighten the gun and allow you to be more efficient


They did that, it's called the backpack hopper with a warp. I think AGD had a prototype out and no one like it, because the hose was just too bulky.

[skife]

They did that, it's called the backpack hopper with a warp. I think AGD had a prototype out and no one like it, because the hose was just too bulky.


also, imagine diving in to a bunker and kinking the hose and getting a break inside of it.


not good at all.

[DevilMan]

Well you asked....

I'm not much on MilSim stuff. But alot of folks are. I am however pretty big on AGD stuff.

So what I think would be an awesome idea to get rolling is to make a marker that uses something like the Q pod/ Slam pod??? The ones that open when you push the lock collar down on the front of the gun under the barrel with a feed system no unlike the warp pushing the balls up into a bottom fed breach.

Devise the way to make it air powered as I'm not fond of electro stuff for wet weather play. And I still love to run things FULL MECH.

Design it so that you simply pull your pod out, push it into the front of the feed and go. There would be nothing to dump from pod to hopper and it'd all be slung underneath the gun keeping the top clear.

I can get some drawings to you as to how to morph the Warp Feed into the Q loader feed to accept the slam pods. Yes I know the Warp is electric. Figure out a gear/air system that as the bolt travels forward it catchs a cog on a wheel that turns the next ball up into breach. It'd be spring loaded so the gear tensions the spring, then when the bolt retracts opening the breach the next ball would pop into place.

If you stacked a warp feed type device in front of the trigger frame where the front grip/vert ASA would be and then had the intake to it coupled with a Q pod type mount so that the balls would feed from the pod, into the warp and up into the breach.

I think it's easy to see. It is in my head anyway....

DM

[TeamJackal37]

I bet if you make Xmag same as Mini (Invert), I believe it would sell great, since the speed starting to go back at 13-15 bps, and accuracy, Xmag, Emag already have all that. Kick? as long doesn't kick like muzzleloader, Price to me is worth every penny.They live up to their Motto, Each one of us can tell you how great these guns are.I dont think it would hurt if they make a small run of these guns, If we are willing to pay the price.

[Ninjeff]

I dont know that "revolutionary" is needed, per se'.
But something interesting would be nice. I think teh quality of AGD speaks volumes also.
It would depend on what style you play, there are options for pushing the tech of "paintball guns".
I figure there is two things you could remove, the tank, and the hopper. How, i dont know, but those two things seem like the most glaring pieces in need of modification. Then again, Tom, you've pretty much run the gamut as far as cool ideas. Warp feed to remove the hopper, or MOVE it rather, (though i would like to see something LESS bulky)
How you hold the gun? Done. Y and Z grip.
Air? Fine, AGD pioneers the HPA talk.
Reliability? Done
Fast firing? done (with rt valve)
I have to say, im hard pressed to think of much else that needs done....

Still, i would kill for a new AGD electro. Something lighter, and with out the battery box out front,

[joelbird]

how about getting rid of the air line from the outside of the gun? That would clean up the gun and make it less akward in my opinion. I run a skrink wrapped braided hose forward and back to the valve on my x.

[punkncat]

Ok you guys tell me, what would be 'revolutionary" and actually producible.

DON'T ask for:

More efficiency
More accuracy
More speed
Lighter weight
Smaller size
less kick
cheap price

These have all been done and are no longer selling points.

Its certainly not clear to me what the paintball masses would consider a revolutionary product. Especially since most recent products have been trashed before they became popular. Note the eggo, HALO, the original Matrix, etc.

AGD

Well Tom, since the mag already has very little kick, shoots as fast as it legally needs to plus some, is small, accurate and light....the ONLY thing that I can see improvment upon the current design would be more efficiency within the legendary build quality. That would be revolutionary, but would it reach out to those who aren't in the know? Without sticking your neck out to do a lot of marketing to bring it to the public eye?
All in all probably not worth the time and effort to do.

[skipdogg]

What about this - Everything Tom said (which are standard now) and a way to propel the balls WITHOUT use of HPA. Something that completely eliminates an air source, and therefore HPA tanks are no longer needed. I'm not saying something to replace HPA tanks, I mean guns no longer require some sort of tank. Imagine that, Tom brings HPA to paintball, and then takes it away too.

Also my $.02 AGD won't do anything related to replacing a hopper. Regardless of how many people suggest it. Sales of the Warp killed that idea already. Unless of course Tom was 20 years ahead of his time, which is pretty normal for him really.

[mostpeople]

An electromagnetic paintball gun :D

[rawbutter]

Ok you guys tell me, what would be 'revolutionary" and actually producible.

I don't think AGD really needs something revolutionary. It just needs better marketing.

Think about it.... Someone new comes to the market, and they look around at their local brick-and-mortar store or shop online at a place like actionvillage.com, but they never consider mags because all those places don't carry mags. Why is that? Why do they carry Angels and Ions and Tippmanns, but not mags? :confused:

There's one other thing that would help, though. A cosmetic overhaul. Let's pretend (by some miracle) that a newcomer gets pointed to AGD's website, and they find the RT-ULE Custom.... which looks like this.

http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/images/product/large/lg_368.jpg

It's not too bad. But then they pop over to actionvillage and notice the new G3.

http://www.rawbutter.com/images/paintball/G3.jpg

So, since these two guns are pretty much the same price (let's not even compare anything else), which do you think the kid's gonna pick?

But it doesn't have to be like that. With a little wheeling and dealing, AGD could give the RT-ULE a complete overhaul. What if, when newcomers went to AGD's website (or any other paintball website, for that matter), they saw this instead of the plain black RT-ULE?

http://modmymag.com/images/aomotm/2004june.jpg

Suddenly, the costmetic choice is a little tougher. :rolleyes:

I've said this before, but since Tom might actually read this thread, I'll say it again. I don't think AGD needs something revolutionary... it just needs a cosmetics overhaul, and some marketing. Imagine if the RT-ULE had these kinds of options:
- choice of Tac-One, Dallara, or Karta body
- choice of frame (Y, vert, 85%, intelliframe, etc.)
- choice of trigger (tunablade, maybe?)
- choice of color (for the whole marker.... not just the body)
- and a clamping feedneck (for good measure)

It would hurt if the whole thing were a tad lighter (I'm sure there's plenty of little places to eliminate some weight), and it would be cool if AGD could also offer e-triggers and pneu-frames as well, but that might be asking for a little too much.

[questionful]

AGD's marketing could definitely improve. I will see if I can't photoshop some CCCP posters. :)

[snoopay700]

Well, I don't know if this would be actually producible, but. . .
One day during one of my many boring classes I was trying to think of a way to make a valve better than the RT valve. It occurred to me that the awesomeness of the RT valve came from the order of the stages the air went through. A classic valve goes: regulator-->on/off-->DC (Dump Chamber). The RT goes: on/off-->DC-->regulator. So what occurred to me that day was that the best valve system would HAVE A REACTIVE TRIGGER and still go DC-->on/off-->regulator. I forget what my reasoning was against DC-->regulator-->on/off, but I remember I had some. Anyway, I'm pretty sure DC-->on/off-->regulator. is physically impossible, but I'm not sure. I'm no genius. It's late and I have no idea what I'm saying, but I remember I thought it was brilliant at the time (how most of my stupid ideas start out :tard: :rofl: ).

Oh and two other things that might be considered revolutionary. One, is an RT valve that is made specifically for the purpose of performance. AGD's RT valves, are too similar to classic valves, maybe for the interchangeability of parts, maybe for some other reason, I don't know. But what I was thinking is that an RT valve could be made that is pretty much a single assembly, placed inside of a dump chamber. It would be a cylinder about a centimeter in diameter, and it would go through the dump chamber in the same orientation as AGD on/off assys. It would have a spool regulator, which would wrap around the on/off. I can never explain anything, perhaps I'll scan up a sketch later. But basically it would keep the RT's on/off-->DC-->regulator, but have all the assemblies in one, in the hopes of having everything go faster, and be more compact.

The second thing is an integrated forcefeed thingy that goes in the space a warp usually occupies. Perhaps integrating hopper, warp, and gun would cut down on some of the weight, size, and appearance that scared people off. What would be awesome is if it were pneumatically powered. But that would kill efficiency. . . Anyway, I think a big push at the same old battles could be considered revolutionary. The RT valve was genius, Mr. Kaye, but you know making something that awesome was just asking for something even better.

PS
Instead of trying to make a better gun, maybe you could just include a Paintball Strategy Guide with all the guns you sell. That might make more of an impact on today's paintball.

PPS
No matter what, chuff chuff! :headbang:
The main problem i see with your design is it needs to go to the on/off first because that stops the air flow, otherwise the bolt would keep popping forward until the pressure in your tank got too low.

There are other things that you can do to make it smaller and more compact, but then you run into other issues. It's possible, it's just gonna be hard. I've actually got a few ideas racing through my mind, though i doubt many people that are in the market for a gun would like them (except for a few of those here).

[mag79]

So, since these two guns are pretty much the same price (let's not even compare anything else), which do you think the kid's gonna pick?

But it doesn't have to be like that. With a little wheeling and dealing, AGD could give the RT-ULE a complete overhaul. What if, when newcomers went to AGD's website (or any other paintball website, for that matter), they saw this instead of the plain black RT-ULE?

http://modmymag.com/images/aomotm/2004june.jpg

Suddenly, the costmetic choice is a little tougher. :rolleyes:

I've said this before, but since Tom might actually read this thread, I'll say it again. I don't think AGD needs something revolutionary... it just needs a cosmetics overhaul, and some marketing. Imagine if the RT-ULE had these kinds of options:
- choice of Tac-One, Dallara, or Karta body
- choice of frame (Y, vert, 85%, intelliframe, etc.)
- choice of trigger (tunablade, maybe?)
- choice of color (for the whole marker.... not just the body)
- and a clamping feedneck (for good measure)

It would hurt if the whole thing were a tad lighter (I'm sure there's plenty of little places to eliminate some weight), and it would be cool if AGD could also offer e-triggers and pneu-frames as well, but that might be asking for a little too much.

Why is it all mag lover can see that but Airgun? :tard:

[maniacmechanic]

not to be a naysayer BUT , the 1st thing I noticed in this thread was the starter & the title
A guy (?) that just bought a E Tac less than a month ago & now has it up for sale and now he's wondering why they don't build more E Mags ?????? :wow:
personally I own 10 diff Mags ; E Mags , RT Pros , a Pump Mag & other assorted Mags & a bunch of bodies and assorted parts ( just like a lot of guys )
personally I like my Mags , I like the heft & feel of a Mag , I like the aftermarket parts from guys like Rogue , Jay8451 , Luke & the other dealers , I like the fact that within a few minutes I can have a Hyperframed Karta Mag or a Karta E Mag or a E Tac , the list can go on
I like it when I go to the field on sunday & someone says ; when did you get that & I say I built it this week ( haven't seen that done with a *hocker lately)
I like the inovation that WE bring to the field , the Ego Mags , the Spyder Mags , the Pnu Mags , really with the level of intelligence around here dog gone near anything can be done
I think ( opinion ) as long as ADG keeps making the base parts we need ( sears, valves , on /off pins ect. ect. ) we Automaggots will be around & innovating thing for decades to come
Just my 2 cents

[thahouse]

Personally i would love to see more AGD products available in Canada, and more players carrying these markers. There is a small cult following for mags up here, but since there is scarce parts to get locally, most people veer from it and go with a tippy or whatnot. I would love to go to a local store, and see AGD parts/markers on the wall/display case, and be able to purchase parts in convience rather than having to wait 2-3 weeks to get my stuff from the USA. It just sucks, because i need a few pistons, and nobody sells them used, and to order from AGD, it would end up costing me almost double of retail just to get the darn thing...so i have a couple valves sitting here collecting dust.

As for markers, I personally think that AGD would be able to enter the market again and get far more people to become maggots, providing they sell markers with a cosmetic overhaul, or at least get into more advertisements instead of letting the followers convert people to mags, and such.

Granted, I know that it costs alot of money to invest in this, but i do know that alot of people would die to posess a chord/karta E-mag, devilmag or an Xmag if they ever saw one in action..

I do get a ton of people fascinated with my mags, and they do show genuine interest in these markers, but sway away from it when they find out that i get 99.9% of my parts from the states...

[dstud2000]

how about just a quality bolt on electro frame that bolts right up to any current mag and uses a 9v. Just keep it affordable and well built like the current mech frames. You can still build your own from parts, upgrade your current collection or make it option with your new purchase from agd.

[cockerpunk]

a revamp of the electronics would be good.

after next semester i should know enough about electronics to build myself a battery that puts the current setup in the emag to shame. not that the stock battery was bad, but in the last ten years, battery technology has gotten MUCH MUCH better.

with a smaller, lighter battery, that would easily cut the ULE Emag down to the current weight of guns.

[dstud2000]

forgot one thing, warp feed that does notrequire an additional hopper, that is the other thing I really want.

[Hgblues]

I've had a ULE X valved side feed mag sitting in a box for , oh, 5 years or so. Level X , ULT, intelli frame, All the latest and greatest airgun offered in a paintball gun. I played half a tournament with it, and put it back in the box. Couldnt keep up with the electro's, plain and simple. Considered the Emag, but the price and the big battery pack, and the weight kept me away from buying one.

Then, finally! I saw all the custom mods being done. Now I'm building what I see as "revolutionary" for an AGD product. ULE, Level X, warp left, X valved, ELECTRONIC operated, with a 9 volt battery inside the grip. With parts from airsoldier and scenario dreams, and all the trial and error mod pioneers that came before me, I'm hoping to end up with the gun I wanted 5 years ago, when I played 4 games and stuck it back in the box, forced to finish the tournament with a "much more qualified for tourney play" , Bushmaster!

mag's sell the agd valve, simplicity of maintenance, and unmatched reputation of a quality product. I started using a mag in '98, a warp feed in 2000, and was the poster child for the warp feed on airgun.com for several years, and I have no doubt in the quality agd produced.

So, revolutionary? The ULE, X valved, maybe lighter railed, ELECTRO PNEU, mag with electronics in the grip. And yea, I'm making the gun myself, but it won't be up to the quality standards that AGD would produce, i'm sure.

[senghing27]

It needs to be Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger

*cues music*

Heres a side question tho, isn't Mr. Kaye not in charge of AGD? I thought AGD went to the man second in charge and what not....

I say build a time machine, go back in time, and patent the electronic paintball marker....

[snoopay700]

It needs to be Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger

*cues music*

Heres a side question tho, isn't Mr. Kaye not in charge of AGD? I thought AGD went to the man second in charge and what not....

I say build a time machine, go back in time, and patent the electronic paintball marker....
He still owns the company and is still the man in charge, he's just not the president i'm pretty sure. It's something along those lines.

[mostpeople]

I don't think AGD really needs something revolutionary. It just needs better marketing.

Think about it.... Someone new comes to the market, and they look around at their local brick-and-mortar store or shop online at a place like actionvillage.com, but they never consider mags because all those places don't carry mags. Why is that? Why do they carry Angels and Ions and Tippmanns, but not mags? :confused:

There's one other thing that would help, though. A cosmetic overhaul. Let's pretend (by some miracle) that a newcomer gets pointed to AGD's website, and they find the RT-ULE Custom.... which looks like this.

http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/images/product/large/lg_368.jpg

It's not too bad. But then they pop over to actionvillage and notice the new G3.

http://www.rawbutter.com/images/paintball/G3.jpg

So, since these two guns are pretty much the same price (let's not even compare anything else), which do you think the kid's gonna pick?

But it doesn't have to be like that. With a little wheeling and dealing, AGD could give the RT-ULE a complete overhaul. What if, when newcomers went to AGD's website (or any other paintball website, for that matter), they saw this instead of the plain black RT-ULE?

http://modmymag.com/images/aomotm/2004june.jpg

Suddenly, the costmetic choice is a little tougher. :rolleyes:

I've said this before, but since Tom might actually read this thread, I'll say it again. I don't think AGD needs something revolutionary... it just needs a cosmetics overhaul, and some marketing. Imagine if the RT-ULE had these kinds of options:
- choice of Tac-One, Dallara, or Karta body
- choice of frame (Y, vert, 85%, intelliframe, etc.)
- choice of trigger (tunablade, maybe?)
- choice of color (for the whole marker.... not just the body)
- and a clamping feedneck (for good measure)

It would hurt if the whole thing were a tad lighter (I'm sure there's plenty of little places to eliminate some weight), and it would be cool if AGD could also offer e-triggers and pneu-frames as well, but that might be asking for a little too much.

Good call Rawbutter, good F'ing call

I completely agree with this, tom?

[paint magnet]

Ok you guys tell me, what would be 'revolutionary" and actually producible.

DON'T ask for:

More efficiency
More accuracy
More speed
Lighter weight
Smaller size
less kick
cheap price

These have all been done and are no longer selling points.

Its certainly not clear to me what the paintball masses would consider a revolutionary product. Especially since most recent products have been trashed before they became popular. Note the eggo, HALO, the original Matrix, etc.

AGD

I still think it speaks well of AGD engineering that the Mag, despite being nearly two decades old has always had the low recoil, minimal size, speed, and accuracy that other markers have only recently begun to approach.

As for me, I like to play paintball. Therefore, I don't like spending time fixing broken guns. My Mag always works and I get in more play time...that's revolutionary enough for me.




I think this is the next step in the evolution of the marker. Developing a system that is high capacity & feeds from the side or below, and that is simple and reliable. We put men on the moon, is this not attainable?
:confused:


Um, like the Warp Feed?

[ThePixelGuru]

Actually they weren't profitable so the idea of discontinuing them was floating around anyway, the timing just happened to coincide and made the decision easier at least that's what Tom had posted on the issue. AGD never received a C&D order that's just rumors.
I never said AGD got a C&D. I said that Smart Parts' actions played a role in AGD's decision not to continue producing E/XMags. Good to point that out, though - a lot of people think that, and it's nice to set the record straight. Wouldn't want people to hate SP for the wrong reasons, after all. :)

[acropilot19]

Um, like the Warp Feed?

Nope, the warp is big & bulky, and you still stick an old school hopper on top of it. Yer thinkin Model-T, I'm thinkin Space Shuttle.
;)
I'm talkin' a single unit that attaches to the gun, which is simple, light, and high-cap. Man-on-tha-moon, we can do this!

[snoopay700]

Nope, the warp is big & bulky, and you still stick an old school hopper on top of it. Yer thinkin Model-T, I'm thinkin Space Shuttle.
;)
I'm talkin' a single unit that attaches to the gun, which is simple, light, and high-cap. Man-on-tha-moon, we can do this!
I've been thinking about this. I mean when i went last weekend pretty much every time i got out was from a few stray shots getting my hopper just barely. However, the warp is bulky enough to keep me using the old ways.

[JesseB]

I've been saying this forever that they need more than one kind of body but everyone thinks their bodies are pieces of art and want to charge out the butt for them because it's a niche market instead of trying to reform automags they are trying to turn a profit. You are never going to solve the problem by jacking the price up higher with exspensive flashy bodies. Reasonably priced flashy body's and emag lowers in the store and maybe some different rails and you might have a good start.

[dstud2000]

If the warp didn't need the second hopper I think it would be pretty much perfect as is or atleast a step in the right direction.

[rawbutter]

You are never going to solve the problem by jacking the price up higher with expensive flashy bodies. Reasonably priced flashy body's and emag lowers in the store and maybe some different rails and you might have a good start.

If the fancy bodies were mass produced, wouldn't the price would come down a lot. Heck... before DW had to increase the price, the Dallara body/rail combo was only about $100 more than a normal ULE + rail. Is my thinking right about this? I always thought that the only reason Kartas and Dallaras were so freaking expensive is because they were/are being made one at a time.

[JesseB]

I'm pretty sure they have always been over $300 for any type of body other than the ULE hell the slugs were close to $100. Ridiculous!

How can you get a cost effective body mass produced when the materials are so exspensive.

[rawbutter]

How can you get a cost effective body mass produced when the materials are so exspensive.


The material is very expensive, no doubt about that, but stuff is always cheaper in bulk. It's the same reason why an 8-pack of batteries cost $5, but a 16-pack costs $7.50.

If someone did a 1000-unit run of Karta bodies, the price would come down a LOT. Not as low as regular ULEs, of course, but it would be a lot cheaper than $500+ per body.

[going_home]

Ok you guys tell me, what would be 'revolutionary" and actually producible.

DON'T ask for:

More efficiency
More accuracy
More speed
Lighter weight
Smaller size
less kick
cheap price

These have all been done and are no longer selling points.

Its certainly not clear to me what the paintball masses would consider a revolutionary product. Especially since most recent products have been trashed before they became popular. Note the eggo, HALO, the original Matrix, etc.

AGD

Anything can be improved, this much is true.
But I cant see anything but extremely minor things sir.
The Emag and Xmag have history proving the designs stand the test of time.
The BEST improvement would be making the X-Mod software the standard
for a new run on an AGD electro !

;)

[questionful]

I've been saying this forever that they need more than one kind of body but everyone thinks their bodies are pieces of art and want to charge out the butt for them because it's a niche market instead of trying to reform automags they are trying to turn a profit. You are never going to solve the problem by jacking the price up higher with exspensive flashy bodies. Reasonably priced flashy body's and emag lowers in the store and maybe some different rails and you might have a good start.
How much profit/time are they making?

I'm pretty sure they have always been over $300 for any type of body other than the ULE hell the slugs were close to $100. Ridiculous!

How can you get a cost effective body mass produced when the materials are so exspensive.
If you massed produced it, you wouldn't buy slugs, and even if you did they would be cheaper.

[blitzkriegboom!]

Well i slept rather fitfully last night thinking about this, what Tom said was a little disconcerting, but what i came up with was simple

Sell mech mags from the factory with killer milling
bob long sells guns with that as a selling point, why not AGD?
team up with Doc and im sure some kikass mags will come out of it
Also maybe a deal with gruntbull for some of the best annoes on the market and poof! mag sales are back again and looking more kikass than ever
:dance:
perhaps i was dreaming a little but id put $$ down to try to start a revival of some sorts..
just my $.02

[rawbutter]

perhaps i was dreaming a little but id put $$ down to try to start a revival of some sorts..
just my $.02

Yes... we should all be able to buy AGD stock before the revolution. :D

I'd just love to see mags get big again. I know a lot of people on here love mags just because they're rare (and then they get to show up at the field and have people drool on their gun), but I'd rather see AGD rise from the ashes and get the respect it deserves.

[Oregon_pb_]

simply rename the Mag with yearly lines.


Call the next one the "RT Mag 09" or "Emag 09".


The quality is already there, just needs a naming convention that will sell to the newcomers who must have the latest and greatest.

You can toss a 09 insignia on the outside if required :D

[snoopay700]

Yes... we should all be able to buy AGD stock before the revolution. :D

I'd just love to see mags get big again. I know a lot of people on here love mags just because they're rare (and then they get to show up at the field and have people drool on their gun), but I'd rather see AGD rise from the ashes and get the respect it deserves.
I'm with you, i shoot mags cause i love them, i mean having a gun that people ask about is cool, but i'd much rather see them get big again.

And oregon, better yet make it a badge that can be replaced, so that way if they have too many mags left over from one year they just pop off that badge and put them in with the new year on them.

[paint magnet]

I'm with you, i shoot mags cause i love them, i mean having a gun that people ask about is cool, but i'd much rather see them get big again.

And oregon, better yet make it a badge that can be replaced, so that way if they have too many mags left over from one year they just pop off that badge and put them in with the new year on them.


Haha, like the old Worr Games logos on the side of cockers. I agree, these days it's not always having the best product that sells guns, it's having the newest. Just mill 09 or something into the rail and call it an improvement.

Think about it:

"All-New" 2009 AGD RT Custom

-One piece lightweight high-flow anti-chop bolt (I mean it's lightweight compared to something, right?)

-Spool valve technology

-Integrated regulator

-ULE-milled microswitch-ready .45 frame (accepts Hybrid grips!)

-26 bps+ uncapped semi

-Air-actuated trigger

-Unequaled reliability

-Compact single tube design

-"VOB" -valve out back tool-less disassembly

-Unparallelled battery life

-Autococker threads, Angel feednecks and detents

-AGD Quality Products have always been endorsed by top tournament teams (like the Jacksonville Warriors)

-Smaller than a DM8, quieter than an Ego, lighter than a...(insert marker here, you get the idea).

I think it would be kind of funny to throw a bunch of wires connected to a board and a dead 9 volt in the grip frame and see how long it would take for people to actually notice. Say the safety is the on/off switch or something.

[snoopay700]

Yeah, just once they take the valve out they'll see it's not a spool valve lol, but yeah i'm sure that if you did that and put a ULT into it no one would know, although thatmight have the side effect of lowering the trust in the company, but it would still be damn funny.

[Don Carnage]

The trick is not to list what AGD does not have (electros, multion-dollar ad campaign, etc.) but what it does have. (simplicity, durability, reliability).

One of the most beautiful things about mags is the valve. It's self contained and can be dropped into any body you want in seconds. This is a huge aspect that no other gun has.

So...make bodies. Not just new ULE bodies with no difference, but go nuts with them.

Underfed rail-less body. People already like warp bodies that come in the side, why not a body that feeds from the bottom.

New Tac-One--The scenario market is huge and has been getting bigger. Tippmann is king while Mags are still revered as uber-reliable. One of the big reasons Tippman rules the scenario world is thier cosmetic upgradibility. But instead of body kits that bolt onto an existing marker, AGD can make bodies that a valve need to go into. Why not a bull-pup automag? The valve slides in through the shoulder stock. Why not make a body that can accept current aftermarket stocks? Why not promote AGD enough to get companies like SpecOps to pimp them to the masses? (Start by making more parts so they can sell more Longbows)

ULE MINIMAG---Why did people lke the minimag? Because it looked cool.

Sleek limited-run bodies---I love the phoenix and Karta Bodies. They're beautiful. Bob Long sells beautifully milled guns. Why not AGD too?


Paintballers are vain. We like nice-looking guns. We like guns that we can 'upgrade' to look nicer. That kind of versatility can be marketed.

[snoopay700]

Feeding from the bottom would require a new trigger mechanism, either pneumatic or otherwise, as the whole gun would need to be moved forward.

[punkrex]

I gave up on AGD and you guys should too.

A mag is not efficient and it is very expensive to built one as light as today's current electros. Their electronics are out dated by about a decade and they are pretty drab out of the box.

With that said, I will attest to their simplicitiy and durability. Sure they can be fast, but crazy high pressure inputs that suck even more compressed air than originally. If AGD wanted to put the money into a new design, they would've a long time ago, rather than building the same old crap for 10 years.

Flame me if you want, but I will say that mags are outdated in today's market. The market is in kids with money to spend- and they're gonna want to spend it on someting that will get them attention. They want something that the hottest pro tourny player used in world cup...Not on something that is heavy, slow, and drab out of the box. the average kid could care less about this thing lasting after a nuclear winter. They just want markers that last a year or two until the next hot marker comes out.

It irritates me that mag owners are so die hard that they cannot see past thier own barrel. They wine and complain about SP, scratch their head in confusion to why AGD is going no where. They complain some more about SP, and then scheme on how to breath life into a dead horse. It just isn't going to happen with out some major changes. If anything, AGD should've went after the woods ball scene before Tippmann cornered the market and convinced a bunch of GI Joe wanna-bees that nothing is more durable than a Tippmann--but its a bit late to for that market because Tippmans are not only pretty durable, but they are very common and readily available at your local one-stop-shopping store.


I loved my mags but I sold them for a pump and a newer electro.

[going_home]

I gave up on AGD and you guys should too.

A mag is not efficient and it is very expensive to built one as light as today's current electros. Their electronics are out dated by about a decade and they are pretty drab out of the box.

With that said, I will attest to their simplicitiy and durability. Sure they can be fast, but crazy high pressure inputs that suck even more compressed air than originally. If AGD wanted to put the money into a new design, they would've a long time ago, rather than building the same old crap for 10 years.

Flame me if you want, but I will say that mags are outdated in today's market. The market is in kids with money to spend- and they're gonna want to spend it on someting that will get them attention. They want something that the hottest pro tourny player used in world cup...Not on something that is heavy, slow, and drab out of the box. the average kid could care less about this thing lasting after a nuclear winter. They just want markers that last a year or two until the next hot marker comes out.

It irritates me that mag owners are so die hard that they cannot see past thier own barrel. They wine and complain about SP, scratch their head in confusion to why AGD is going no where. They complain some more about SP, and then scheme on how to breath life into a dead horse. It just isn't going to happen with out some major changes. If anything, AGD should've went after the woods ball scene before Tippmann cornered the market and convinced a bunch of GI Joe wanna-bees that nothing is more durable than a Tippmann--but its a bit late to for that market because Tippmans are not only pretty durable, but they are very common and readily available at your local one-stop-shopping store.


I loved my mags but I sold them for a pump and a newer electro.


Thanks for adding something meaningful to the discussion.
Now go back home, your mommy is calling and has cookies and milk for you.

:tard:

[thejere]

What do all you folks want exactly? a "revolutionary" marker? mags do one thing better than any marker i've owned our shot, they put paint down the field day after day. I have never missed a game trying to figure out which o-ring my marker is leaking from, what happened to my software, or general failure. Do we worry about AGD because everyone asks us what type of shocker that is? It ain't a fashion show ladies. Mags aren't the coolest but I really down want some little agglet in my corner.

I don't think there is anything that will change agd's position in paintball, but who cares? people who want a quality marker will make their way over to a mag and love it. I'm tired of these threads guys.

[snoopay700]

What do all you folks want exactly? a "revolutionary" marker? mags do one thing better than any marker i've owned our shot, they put paint down the field day after day. I have never missed a game trying to figure out which o-ring my marker is leaking from, what happened to my software, or general failure. Do we worry about AGD because everyone asks us what type of shocker that is? It ain't a fashion show ladies. Mags aren't the coolest but I really down want some little agglet in my corner.

I don't think there is anything that will change agd's position in paintball, but who cares? people who want a quality marker will make their way over to a mag and love it. I'm tired of these threads guys.
What i want to see from AGD is Tom's dream marker he mentioned a while back, it definitely would have been revolutionary, but then the market got all screwed up, main reason they didn't come out with something new i'm pretty sure. Tom even said there may be a chance that they start up again if the market levels out, but that it doesn't look too good.

[Don Carnage]

Feeding from the bottom would require a new trigger mechanism, either pneumatic or otherwise, as the whole gun would need to be moved forward.

Yea it would. Same goes for a bullpup design since the sear arm would need to be extended waaay forward. But since the valve design wouldnt need to change, it would be yet another body upgrade that mags would be capable of.


A mag is not efficient and it is very expensive to built one as light as today's current electros.

Have you ever checked the cost of making one of the modded-out scenario Tippmans? People will spend hundreds upon hundres of dollars on cosmetic upgrades and in the end still have a gun that shoots like an A-5.


If anything, AGD should've went after the woods ball scene before Tippmann cornered the market and convinced a bunch of GI Joe wanna-bees that nothing is more durable than a Tippmann--but its a bit late to for that market because Tippmans are not only pretty durable, but they are very common and readily available at your local one-stop-shopping store.

I'll agree that AGD has dropped the ball on the woodsball crowd. It's growing, and many of the players are older with more disposable income. However it is not too late.

Mags are still very respected in the scenario communities. However Tippmans, as I've said have more cosmetic upgrades.

AGD once ruled the tournament scene. Unless they begin producing electros again they should ignore that market and focus on the woods/scenario groups that care more for durability and reliability than they do for light weight and incredible speed.

[Ninjeff]

AGD once ruled the tournament scene. Unless they begin producing electros again they should ignore that market and focus on the woods/scenario groups that care more for durability and reliability than they do for light weight and incredible speed.


excellent point.

[Hgblues]

I just dropped a hundred bucks worth of parts into the grip of my mag and ended up with an electro mag, with all the necessary firing mods, running off a 9v battery. The gun setup weighs around 7 pounds plus the warp feed I have on it (puts it just over 8.5 lbs total), and that's with the full stock rail and X valve. That's a little less than the DM4 setup so weight isn't an issue (unless your a 10 year old kid, or just a pansy).

I think that setup witha newer agd rail and newer body styles and decent marketing would be a very popular marker.

Unless, that cant be done due to the whole legal patent garbage.

[Emert426]

Ok you guys tell me, what would be 'revolutionary" and actually producible.

DON'T ask for:

More efficiency
More accuracy
More speed
Lighter weight
Smaller size
less kick
cheap price

These have all been done and are no longer selling points.

Its certainly not clear to me what the paintball masses would consider a revolutionary product. Especially since most recent products have been trashed before they became popular. Note the eggo, HALO, the original Matrix, etc.

AGD

Same incredible AGD Quality, new look, throw in some subtle upgrades, and bingo!

I'd be on that list!

[paint magnet]

I've never understood the race to upgrade electronics and software. I've owned several electros, from Angel LCDs, LEDs, A4's, EBlades, Vikings, and EMags but never really noticed a difference in the performance of the software. I mean, as long as you have a semiauto mode and an adjustable ROF, which nearly every gun has, I don't see why you need more current software. My LCD had 24 firing modes, the A4 had several, the EMagnum board had who knows how many...I always kept it in semi because I don't feel in control of my marker when it starts ramping.

I also don't see why Mags are considered slow. A Classic-valved Mag is capable of over 15 bps without shootdown, and that's as fast as tournaments allow anyway. The RT valve is even faster, and is the fastest mechanical gun I know of. High input pressures are only needed to compensate for slow fingers, which is exactly what ramping software does through a different medium.

[steve_81]

simply rename the Mag with yearly lines.


Call the next one the "RT Mag 09" or "Emag 09".


The quality is already there, just needs a naming convention that will sell to the newcomers who must have the latest and greatest.

You can toss a 09 insignia on the outside if required :D


Seriously, that would probably work. AGD should try that and maybe do a few advertisements for the "new" line-up in pb magazines, maybe even a few appearances and i bet they would sell alot more markers.

[WatchDragon]

I have always wanted a Y-grip X-mag, if i hold onto my dream long enough, will it come true?

[snoopay700]

I have always wanted a Y-grip X-mag, if i hold onto my dream long enough, will it come true?
I've actually thought about trying to get the board and solenoid and everything and making one, so you never know. If you'll fund it, i'll do it. ;)

[JRingold]

An electromagnetic paintball gun :D

You better fill out that patent application now. :ninja:

[Texas Trigger]

Ok you guys tell me, what would be 'revolutionary" and actually producible.

DON'T ask for:

More efficiency
More accuracy
More speed
Lighter weight
Smaller size
less kick
cheap price

These have all been done and are no longer selling points.

Its certainly not clear to me what the paintball masses would consider a revolutionary product. Especially since most recent products have been trashed before they became popular. Note the eggo, HALO, the original Matrix, etc.

AGD

I have a few simple ideas...

New trigger: Let's face it, the stock E-mag trigger looks like something off an old E-Spyder. Maybe something shaped like the tunablade instead. It'd be easier to walk and look better.

New software: Needs all the goodies...Fully adjustable ROF, tourney lock, PSP 3 shot, NPPL, NXL, burst, full auto, etc. X-MOD was a wonderful advent that brought the E-mag and X-mag into the new age of paintball. Maybe we could learn a few things from it.

On/off switch: Ditch that yellow pin!

Milling and looks: E-mags aren't the most exciting looking thing around. That doesn't matter much to someone like me, but today's crowd wants something neat looking...Maybe mill the battery pack and rail, start using different grips...the current ones look ugly. I like alot of the stuff I see here: http://www.xmagworld.com/prototypes.htm

1000 mah battery: Like the ones for sale in the dealer's section...Maybe have this as an optional upgrade...

ACE: Have eyes as an optional upgrade for E-mags

These are jsut a few small things that could be done. If used alongside a more effective marketing campaign, E-mags could really take off!

[WatchDragon]

9 volt battery (beats a dead horse)
a trigger similar to CP's blade?
mill some pictures into the back of the valve so the ADD kids have something to look at?


things that exist alredy and look umm, "agg" "tight" umm, i donno what kids call it anymore?

the X-mag body looked mean enough, the way it encompassed the valve.

The electronic housing isn't the most attractive thing, maybe make it look more regulator like?
A box hanging off the front of the marker isn't appealing to most people

the Y-grip ( lose the hogue pistol grips, its not a real gun ), i personally have the "trucker girl" hybrid panels on mine. Make some grips with the lions on them or somethign along those lines.

speaking of, an electric y-frame?

I agree a lot with Texas Trigger too, and i probably reworded what he said somewhat.

----


Its certainly not clear to me what the paintball masses would consider a revolutionary product. Especially since most recent products have been trashed before they became popular. Note the eggo, HALO, the original Matrix, etc.

Sadly its a lot of making old stuff sound new, im sure you seen the Ego 08' selling points, they are trash, but people are getting wood over them.

[WatchDragon]

Also, if you build a marker when its ordered, would that work? Ya know, like an "In-n-Out" or "Jack in The Box" kinda way, we don't make it until you order it? have tom's signature engraved on it, lol, make it a work of art.

I know the woodsball people love Tac One, there are enough videos on youtube of people showing them off. less so with the e-mag.

[LinearGoose]

Why does everyone want AGD to be like everyone else. Let AGD be AGD and as far as air efficiency I get all day air at my field and every field that I have been to. Im usually back refilling my pods than air.

[WatchDragon]

Everyone else has an electro marker, all we have is woodsball mechanical markers (save the elite few that have an E / X mag), nothing wrong with that.

Show me someone in the PSP league using a mechanical mag, its just not happening.

[questionful]

In Japan, Toyota doesn't make a car until someone orders it. The Japanese people are the most efficient on the planet, until it comes to the plastic they package all their exports in.

[LinearGoose]

Everyone else has an electro marker, all we have is woodsball mechanical markers (save the elite few that have an E / X mag), nothing wrong with that.

Show me someone in the PSP league using a mechanical mag, its just not happening.
Well if you want an Emag you can get one from Tuna (http://www.tunamart.com/index.php?c=47&p=388). You dont have to use a crummy mech marker and I didnt know everyone was planning on playing in the PSP league.

[maniacmechanic]

Why does everyone want AGD to be like everyone else. Let AGD be AGD and as far as air efficiency I get all day air at my field and every field that I have been to. Im usually back refilling my pods than air.

Goose you hit the nail on the head
you know the 55 Chevy is a classic , I bet chevy could sell a million of them IF they made them again :confused: I wonder why they don't :rolleyes:

[WatchDragon]

*throws hands up in the air* well thank, i didn't know they were already made to order.

[snoopay700]

As far as different milling on the x-mag, i dig the last two designs before the very last picture on here: http://www.xmagworld.com/prototypes.htm

Granted it does make them look like everything else, but i don't hate it, and it would get more people to use them probably.

[JRingold]

AGD once ruled the tournament scene. Unless they begin producing electros again they should ignore that market and focus on the woods/scenario groups that care more for durability and reliability than they do for light weight and incredible speed.

Are you saying an X-Mag doesn't belong in the woods?

http://a792.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/78/m_ab83380fcb094acb3873fade36a9c2f7.jpg

I love it for owning tippy's and people who think it has to be mil-sim to function in a scenario game.

I still say it's about marketing and capital. No one wants to invest in a market that seems to be full of legal potential and consolidation. Public opinion will have a lot to do with anything, I'l happy to wait a few years and see what happens.

[Don Carnage]

Are you saying an X-Mag doesn't belong in the woods?

um...no. I'm not saying that at all.
I'm saying that AGD should focus it's marketing towards woods scenario players. There's lots of e-spyders, angels, e-cockers, ego, etc in the hands of woodsball players. However Tippmans are still in the hands of a gross majority of woods players. That's because Tippmans are very durable, reliable, and marketed toward them. AGD should market toward them too.

[Avianrave]

An electromagnetic paintball gun :D

I could see this working, buy it would be extremely expensive.

The batter would need to provide a high enough voltage, sufficient current, and have a large energy bank to last a while. Such a system would cost around $500 or more.

Another problem would be the solenoid or some other mass accelerator that would provide a sufficient force, efficient in converting potential energy to kinetic energy, and cycle fast enough to be useful. Such a system would probably need lots of research and resources to develop. Perhaps AGD could try to co-develop something that the army could use, which would help alleviate the development costs.

The main thing I'm wondering is, would AGD change it's name to EmGD?

[kabley]

Get me .dxf files and I'll machine a X mag tomorrow. :)

I am on a search for a Karta X Mag.

[nathanjones008]

I gave up on AGD and you guys should too.

A mag is not efficient and it is very expensive to built one as light as today's current electros. Their electronics are out dated by about a decade and they are pretty drab out of the box.

With that said, I will attest to their simplicitiy and durability. Sure they can be fast, but crazy high pressure inputs that suck even more compressed air than originally. If AGD wanted to put the money into a new design, they would've a long time ago, rather than building the same old crap for 10 years.

Flame me if you want, but I will say that mags are outdated in today's market. The market is in kids with money to spend- and they're gonna want to spend it on someting that will get them attention. They want something that the hottest pro tourny player used in world cup...Not on something that is heavy, slow, and drab out of the box. the average kid could care less about this thing lasting after a nuclear winter. They just want markers that last a year or two until the next hot marker comes out.

It irritates me that mag owners are so die hard that they cannot see past thier own barrel. They wine and complain about SP, scratch their head in confusion to why AGD is going no where. They complain some more about SP, and then scheme on how to breath life into a dead horse. It just isn't going to happen with out some major changes. If anything, AGD should've went after the woods ball scene before Tippmann cornered the market and convinced a bunch of GI Joe wanna-bees that nothing is more durable than a Tippmann--but its a bit late to for that market because Tippmans are not only pretty durable, but they are very common and readily available at your local one-stop-shopping store.


I loved my mags but I sold them for a pump and a newer electro.


I agree. With the current leadership (cool with the "status quo")of the company there will be a continuation of the same old excuses.

I sold one of my mags and purchased a rail. A very good investiment.

One year from now the company will still be doing the same thing. Nothing!

[Oregon_pb_]

Get me .dxf files and I'll machine a X mag tomorrow. :)

I am on a search for a Karta X Mag.


A xmag with a karta body would be a karta mag wouldn't it? The internals of the x and emags are the same aside from eyes, thus the only difference is the body? You remove the body and wouldn't you take away the name Xmag?

[kabley]

A xmag with a karta body would be a karta mag wouldn't it? The internals of the x and emags are the same aside from eyes, thus the only difference is the body? You remove the body and wouldn't you take away the name Xmag?

Karta Mag; Karta E Mag; Karta X Mag... However you want to name it, I want it!!!

p.s. I still want the .dxf files.

[questionful]

Karta Mag; Karta E Mag; Karta X Mag... However you want to name it, I want it!!!
An X-mag has a one-piece rail and body. A karta mag is any mag with a karta body and rail (or even just the body). If you want one, go buy one!

[kabley]

An X-mag has a one-piece rail and body. A karta mag is any mag with a karta body and rail (or even just the body). If you want one, go buy one!

I've been hitting the forums these last couple of days. I forgot how much I love Mags!! I have always wanted a X Mag; then I saw the Karta body and rail. So I figured if someone had the one I want, I'd make an offer. But I'll be damed if anyone is interested in selling one!!! Once you find the one you want, you're married to it!

[questionful]

I've been hitting the forums these last couple of days. I forgot how much I love Mags!! I have always wanted a X Mag; then I saw the Karta body and rail. So I figured if someone had the one I want, I'd make an offer. But I'll be damed if anyone is interested in selling one!!! Once you find the one you want, you're married to it!
Yep. Which is why I think more should be made! But in order for this to be profitable, the mag market needs to be bigger. So if AGD put some money into some sick advertising (I bet there are graphic designer maggots and maggots in the advertising business that would be more than willing to help), it would be easier for people/companies to make aftermarket parts for the mag.

[MoeMag]

I still want the .dxf files.

Your not the only one. I would rather have an *.Iges file tho.

:cheers:

[sffudapparel]

In my opinion, AGD needs to take a lesson from Ford. The mustang was a classic muscle car. In order to make it cheaper and more accessible to the general market, a v6 was introduced, abandoning the muscle car mentality and going with something a little more "reserved". Within years, the mustang became known as a "woman's car" and lost all prestige it used to hold.

AGD has prestige right now. They're rare machines that don't show themselves very often, but when the do, people take notice. AGD sacrificed nothing in order to make some of the finest (xmag is THE finest) guns ever made. Changing now to make money would damage their name more than it would help their pocket books.

The motto reads "because quality always shoots straight" not "quality always shoots straight unless it's our entry level marker"

[Oregon_pb_]

i've contemplated putting my Karta emag (with emax valve) up for sale a couple times but always talked myself out of it. They are just too unique to sell. I prefer shooting my mech mag over the karta emag, but none the less I must keep both. For the time being....

In the end I may sell the Karta and buy a Xmag again


As for AGD making markers again, I hope they don't. Right now I use my mag and know i'm part of a unique "group". If they became popular again it would lose the appeal it has (to me anyway) and I'd probably switch over to AKA markers 100%. Right now I'm about 40% AGD 45% AKA and 15% Cyborg as far as guns I prefer to shoot when I play. I own a multiple of each, plus tons more.

[Hilltop Customs]

the single problem with mags is they were made right the first time.....and agd didnt decieve customers by making "improvements" every year to increase sales.

[maniacmechanic]

I've been hitting the forums these last couple of days. I forgot how much I love Mags!! I have always wanted a X Mag; then I saw the Karta body and rail. So I figured if someone had the one I want, I'd make an offer. But I'll be damed if anyone is interested in selling one!!! Once you find the one you want, you're married to it!

Kartas are out there you just have to hold onto your cash & have some patience , the one's with no hole rails are selling for about 550 to 600 now since DW changed thier machining prices
X MagTerror is cutting some nice looking body rail combos now to at what I consider fair prices
As far as AGD doing something , personally I don't think it will happen , some get on this forum & cry that they want AGD to come up with new ideas & start building markers again , but look at it this way , look & see how many members are on this forum then look & see how many regular posters there are , quite a difference in that number
I've seen a lot of posts with guys talking about thier mag taking a backseat to thier new cheaper e marker , thier Mag goes in the gearbag as a back up or loaner , even a lot of the guys I consider hardcore Maggers have different markers in thier gearbar alongside thier Mags , ( now most of these are not run of the mill markers , but niche markers also )
at this point i'm still all Mag & a Phantom & and I like the company (AGD ) just the way it is , I can still get all my small parts from them & use aftermarket manufacturesfor the big stuff

[chinstrap]

I'd say the best idea presented here is that of simply producing new bodies. The mechanics work fine for the demographic that mags appeal to, so no need to change anything.

Reading through the posts, I did have one idea though:

Would it be possible to integrate a mechanical agitation system kind of like Tippmann's Cyclone, but instead of using gas from the tank/excess gas, would use the movement of the bolt releasing and/or resetting to cycle? I doubt anyone holds a patent on something like that, since it would require the automag bolt mechanics to function.

If this could be accomplished without too much of a price increase, it would be in direct competition with the RTed X-7s, and subsequently appeal to roughly the same demographic, especially if the body were like a Tac One with an integrated telescoping stock (kind of like that BT/Mini thing that's coming out) or perhaps just had the ability to take a line of different stocks made for it.

Fact is, it looks like the money is going to the woods/scenario market and AGD would really clean up, given the reliability, performance and ease of maintainance of their markers. Those are the three reasons that, whenever I think about trying something new from the electro camp, I ultimately don't.

More than anything else, I would LOVE a simple mechanical agitated loading system (not the Q-loader) to go with my simple mechanical marker.

[pito189]

Look at the difference, the 90s called they want their web design back.

http://paulchinetti.com/images/paintball/Stores.jpg

AGD doesn't need to do anything revolutionary just join the 21st century. Does anyone actually still use a single trigger on their mag? Have you ever shot one of those triggers they are awful. Just update everything it can't be that much more expensive.

edit: look at the tac, much more attractive of an offering than that minimag or pro classic.

[ZEROte]

I agree. With the current leadership (cool with the "status quo")of the company there will be a continuation of the same old excuses.

I sold one of my mags and purchased a rail. A very good investiment.

One year from now the company will still be doing the same thing. Nothing!

i third this notion. i was very loyal to agd back in the day but other things came calling and took me away.

on the flip side though. i would love to own a custom milled devil-type mag. that has a tadao board in it.

[BigEvil]

So, with all of these great ideas, griping, and critiquing, who will be the first to step up and either pay the legal fees to fight (and hopefully win) a battle with Smart Parts over electro licensing, OR, pay them the money they want for a license? Or is the general consensus that AGD just make mechs?

While you are at it, who who will pony up the investment capital needed to produce an inventory? R&D? (So forth and so on)

If there were truckloads of cash to be made in this market, the after market would be filling the gaps created by the manufacturer. As we can see with the Pneu-mag situation, and by the lack of 'modern' after market bolt on electro frames, the mag market must not be very lucrative. It's nice for the small guys who want to make parts, but you dont see companies like Empire or Hybrid running out to make parts for us anymore do we?

Quite frankly, short of anything revolutionary I am very happy with the status quo. I am thrilled to still be able to purchase replacement parts to keep all my mags up and running and hope to be able to for a long time.

And with as many people "Mag-whoring" as there are, the ones I own are guaranteed to maintain their value, while all the new stuff sells for 1/3rd its price a year after it comes out.

[Jaan]

Look at the difference, the 90s called they want their web design back.
Reality called; web sites that use all Flash suck.

[pito189]

Reality called; web sites that use all Flash suck.

Why?

[trevorjk]

Why?

because not everyone is in the 21st century with nice computer and 4mb lan lines.

i never go to those sites strictly because of the flash.

[kabley]

there are, the ones I own are guaranteed to maintain their value, while all the new stuff sells for 1/3rd its price a year after it comes out.

Do you mean if AGD came back into the scene? No likely. You know how markets work.

[questionful]

I think AGD could use a new website "look". Doesn't have to be flash, just has to look better. With better photography of the guns, too.

If AGD could figure out a way to get around the pneuframe patent, that would be awesome.

[BigEvil]

Do you mean if AGD came back into the scene? No likely. You know how markets work.

I mean since things are remaining 'status quo'.

[maniacmechanic]

So, with all of these great ideas, griping, and critiquing, who will be the first to step up and either pay the legal fees to fight (and hopefully win) a battle with Smart Parts over electro licensing, OR, pay them the money they want for a license? Or is the general consensus that AGD just make mechs?

While you are at it, who who will pony up the investment capital needed to produce an inventory? R&D? (So forth and so on)

If there were truckloads of cash to be made in this market, the after market would be filling the gaps created by the manufacturer. As we can see with the Pneu-mag situation, and by the lack of 'modern' after market bolt on electro frames, the mag market must not be very lucrative. It's nice for the small guys who want to make parts, but you dont see companies like Empire or Hybrid running out to make parts for us anymore do we?

Quite frankly, short of anything revolutionary I am very happy with the status quo. I am thrilled to still be able to purchase replacement parts to keep all my mags up and running and hope to be able to for a long time.

And with as many people "Mag-whoring" as there are, the ones I own are guaranteed to maintain their value, while all the new stuff sells for 1/3rd its price a year after it comes out.

totally in agreement with everything you said Big E especially what's in the red

Another ? Did Tom ever patent anything ? I've never seen a patent # or a patent pending thing on any of my AGD markers or parts

Really we have to look at this in the real world ; we (Automaggots) are a Very small cog in the Very large wheel of the paintball world ,I am glad we have the aftermarket suppliers that we have now & the small scale innovater's like we have here , nobody but nobody mod's any other marker like we do our pride & joys , if it was just about shootin paint we would have the flavor of the month markers , but we don't , most of us love to tinker and see what we can do , and it's not about bps anymore it's about hitting what you shoot at in 3 balls or less & shootin over the chrono with a 3 fps varaition

[BigEvil]

totally in agreement with everything you said Big E especially what's in the red

Another ? Did Tom ever patent anything ? I've never seen a patent # or a patent pending thing on any of my AGD markers or parts

Really we have to look at this in the real world ; we (Automaggots) are a Very small cog in the Very large wheel of the paintball world ,I am glad we have the aftermarket suppliers that we have now & the small scale innovater's like we have here , nobody but nobody mod's any other marker like we do our pride & joys , if it was just about shootin paint we would have the flavor of the month markers , but we don't , most of us love to tinker and see what we can do , and it's not about bps anymore it's about hitting what you shoot at in 3 balls or less & shootin over the chrono with a 3 fps varaition

Thanks, you know.. the whole 'great minds' thing :D

[GoatBoy]

OK, for starters, I haven't been keeping up lately, so some of my info might be somewhat stale. However...


Ok you guys tell me, what would be 'revolutionary" and actually producible.

...

These have all been done and are no longer selling points.

Its certainly not clear to me what the paintball masses would consider a revolutionary product. Especially since most recent products have been trashed before they became popular. Note the eggo, HALO, the original Matrix, etc.


What's "revolutionary" about the Tac-One?

This "it's has to be revolutionary" stuff is just a cheap excuse. If it had to be revolutionary, the Tac-One would never have made it out the door.

I'd settle for "improved". It would be nice to see carbon versions of the intelliframe and y-grip. I've mentioned this to other people, and they seemed all for it. I'm not sure why you can do it for the single triggers, but can't do it for these two grips. Those would come out lighter than the aluminum ones, right? I don't even need that microswitch mount. Keep the aluminum frames around as an option, but maybe pre-drill/tap the setscrew holes for the pneumatic rams.

Also, I just realized that the non-ASA tank I'm about to put on my mag has an on/off, but no bleed as far as I can tell. The mag still holds pressure past the point it will even cycle after you shut the air off. I'll have to find a bleed/purge valve (which doesn't seem likely) or use a large slide check. It might be nice to build a bleed/purge valve into rear grip screw so we can degas the marker and still work on the uppers without even removing the air system from the rest of the gun. No, I do not want to put a QD on my gun unless I absolutely have to.


See? Not revolutionary, but improvements, and by that I mean real improvements, not crap like milling or miscellaneous other aesthetic garbage.



So, with all of these great ideas, griping, and critiquing, who will be the first to step up and either pay the legal fees to fight (and hopefully win) a battle with Smart Parts over electro licensing, OR, pay them the money they want for a license? Or is the general consensus that AGD just make mechs?

While you are at it, who who will pony up the investment capital needed to produce an inventory? R&D? (So forth and so on)

Who ponied up the costs to develop the automags in the first place? Who ponied up the costs to design the RT? Or the warp? Or the ULE products? Or the Level 10? Or the ULT? Or the Intelliframe? Or the Y-Grip?

Did you personally pony any money up directly for the development of any of these products?

What about attempting a WDP side-door?



If there were truckloads of cash to be made in this market, the after market would be filling the gaps created by the manufacturer. As we can see with the Pneu-mag situation, and by the lack of 'modern' after market bolt on electro frames, the mag market must not be very lucrative. It's nice for the small guys who want to make parts, but you dont see companies like Empire or Hybrid running out to make parts for us anymore do we?

This is a logical fallacy on probably more than one level; I'm not sure which ones it technically falls under.

What did Empire ever make for the Automag?

Are the Rogue parts not doing very well?



Quite frankly, short of anything revolutionary I am very happy with the status quo. I am thrilled to still be able to purchase replacement parts to keep all my mags up and running and hope to be able to for a long time.

And with as many people "Mag-whoring" as there are, the ones I own are guaranteed to maintain their value, while all the new stuff sells for 1/3rd its price a year after it comes out.

The value of your mags are wholly contingent on the survival of AGD. The moment AGD goes under, your mags will begin approaching the value of a Kingman Hammer. Just like the value of stainless AIR regs is artificially held at ~$100 because that's what they're worth as trade-ins.

If AGD manages to stay alive by doing nothing new, I'm all for it. I'm glad that AGD is still around, and I hope they will remain forever. I'm just worried that, like that quote from Shawshank Redemption, you either "Get busy living, or get busy dying."

To pretend that there's no interest, and therefore no money, in a quality product is somewhat... off. Why bother playing paintball if you don't believe you can win? Why bother being in an industry if you don't believe you can succeed? AGD's customers seem to believe. It's too bad AGD itself doesn't believe.

[questionful]

Tom or AGD or whoever's name it's under did patent stuff. I know the warp feed is patented. Maybe more stuff, I would have patented the flatline. I'll check what else they patented later.


As for what AGD could do. Yeah, they seem to be doing just fine, and that is great and enough. I just wish more people realized how awesome they are.

Wow, when I finished typing this, I saw two or three new posts. I guess what I want AGD to do depends on how well they are doing financially. If they are doing fine, then they should keep going like they are now. If they want or need more, then they should start doing stuff, like the CF frames that's a good idea. With the pre-tapped holes, that's an excellent idea. Though it would proably be some brackets to hold nuts in place. Sounds cheap to me, and they could put it out for only a little more than single trigger CF frames cost, right? Even if they had to have a metal trigger guard for sturdiness.

[BigEvil]

OK, for starters, I haven't been keeping up lately, so some of my info might be somewhat stale. However...



What's "revolutionary" about the Tac-One?

This "it's has to be revolutionary" stuff is just a cheap excuse. If it had to be revolutionary, the Tac-One would never have made it out the door.

I'd settle for "improved". It would be nice to see carbon versions of the intelliframe and y-grip. I've mentioned this to other people, and they seemed all for it. I'm not sure why you can do it for the single triggers, but can't do it for these two grips. Those would come out lighter than the aluminum ones, right? I don't even need that microswitch mount. Keep the aluminum frames around as an option, but maybe pre-drill/tap the setscrew holes for the pneumatic rams.

Also, I just realized that the non-ASA tank I'm about to put on my mag has an on/off, but no bleed as far as I can tell. The mag still holds pressure past the point it will even cycle after you shut the air off. I'll have to find a bleed/purge valve (which doesn't seem likely) or use a large slide check. It might be nice to build a bleed/purge valve into rear grip screw so we can degas the marker and still work on the uppers without even removing the air system from the rest of the gun. No, I do not want to put a QD on my gun unless I absolutely have to.


See? Not revolutionary, but improvements, and by that I mean real improvements, not crap like milling or miscellaneous other aesthetic garbage.




Who ponied up the costs to develop the automags in the first place? Who ponied up the costs to design the RT? Or the warp? Or the ULE products? Or the Level 10? Or the ULT? Or the Intelliframe? Or the Y-Grip?

Did you personally pony any money up directly for the development of any of these products?

What about attempting a WDP side-door?




This is a logical fallacy on probably more than one level; I'm not sure which ones it technically falls under.

What did Empire ever make for the Automag?

Are the Rogue parts not doing very well?




The value of your mags are wholly contingent on the survival of AGD. The moment AGD goes under, your mags will begin approaching the value of a Kingman Hammer. Just like the value of stainless AIR regs is artificially held at ~$100 because that's what they're worth as trade-ins.

If AGD manages to stay alive by doing nothing new, I'm all for it. I'm glad that AGD is still around, and I hope they will remain forever. I'm just worried that, like that quote from Shawshank Redemption, you either "Get busy living, or get busy dying."

To pretend that there's no interest, and therefore no money, in a quality product is somewhat... off. Why bother playing paintball if you don't believe you can win? Why bother being in an industry if you don't believe you can succeed? AGD's customers seem to believe. It's too bad AGD itself doesn't believe.


Rogue is a small dealer, who does well in a niche market that few are willing to cater to. At one time, all of the major aftermarket parts makers produced aftermarket parts for AGD guns. Taso, Pro-Team, Smart Parts, Diamond Labs, ShockTech, Centerflag ect, ect.

To think that ANYONE has oodles of cash laying around to sink into inventory that will sit around for years is... well.. idunno you tell me. Just like the fact that there are still NEW parts for classic mags and emags laying around speaks volumes. Those parts were produced YEARS ago.

Also the fact that these products must be produced with high grade materials and to strict standards increase the costs tremendously. So if no one is willing to make a mountain of inventory to lower the production costs, who will be willing to pay above market retail prices? Then add in that the inventory would most likely sit around, so your return on investment would be very slow, if at all.

I deal with cheaply made goods that are imported everyday. I myself would NOT purchase inferior quality products that are made over seas and of lesser grade material. If I want that, I would buy a Shocker. However, that is just my preference. A Shocker will so the same thing a mag will do - shoot a paintball when I pull the trigger. (Well they are supposed to)

I agree that some minor things can be done to 'freshen up' some of the product line. But if the old items still sell, or, if there are still large quantities of them laying around, than it probably wont happen. Some of the specific ideas you mention are good ones, but could lead to legal issues with people who hold the patents on them. If you add a micro switch mount to a frame, then technically its now an electro frame and opens up a pandoras box of potential trouble. Sucks, but thats the way it works.

:cheers:

[maniacmechanic]

[QUOTE=GoatBoy]OK, for starters, I haven't been keeping up lately, so some of my info might be somewhat stale. However...[QUOTE]

well your right about that 4 posts in 05 , none in 06 , 3 in 07 & 6 this month
I did like what you said on 1-27-2005 though " I'd play until my mags died and I couldn't keep them running anymore (at a reasonable cost)... And then I'd quit the sport."
This was in reference to this thread , http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165232

[GoatBoy]

well your right about that 4 posts in 05 , none in 06 , 3 in 07 & 6 this month
I did like what you said on 1-27-2005 though " I'd play until my mags died and I couldn't keep them running anymore (at a reasonable cost)... And then I'd quit the sport."
This was in reference to this thread , http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165232

You know what? I still feel that way. Over this time, I've looked at other markers, in particular the Ion and the Invert Mini. Neither of them still fits what I want in a marker.

Fortunately, mags seem to last a really long time. I pulled mine off the shelf after a hiatus, ran some oil through it, and it was ready to go. Never even bothered to pull the valve off the frame. By the end of my first day back, everyone there was wearing my crappy blue paint.

I've got like 3 parts kits I managed to acquire that I've almost never bothered to open. Take a guess at what one part I've had to fish out of those parts kits; the same part I'll most likely need to replace again in the future?

[maniacmechanic]

You know what? I still feel that way. Over this time, I've looked at other markers, in particular the Ion and the Invert Mini. Neither of them still fits what I want in a marker.

Fortunately, mags seem to last a really long time. I pulled mine off the shelf after a hiatus, ran some oil through it, and it was ready to go. Never even bothered to pull the valve off the frame. By the end of my first day back, everyone there was wearing my crappy blue paint.

I've got like 3 parts kits I managed to acquire that I've almost never bothered to open. Take a guess at what one part I've had to fish out of those parts kits; the same part I'll most likely need to replace again in the future?

the bolt bumper , seems to be my most used part

[BigEvil]

the bolt bumper , seems to be my most used part


Xmod seems to have cut bumpers life spans down drastically. If you glue them down they last much longer.