DM3/4/5/6 vs Shocker vs ??

[jdc299]

Hello all,
Now that i have sold my gun, i am looking to downgrade... but since i have not kept up on the new gun developments... the last real knowledge i have is from about 2003/2004.... and i know i liked those guns back then.

i have a 2-400 to spend (really looking for about 250-300)... and i am looking for something

RELIABILITY
ease to shoot fast (i dont play tournaments but i do play rec speed ball)
accuracy would be nice (and yeah, i know its mostly paint/barrel match)
i am used to minimal maintenance, but i dont mind much maintenance
something quiet would be nice cuz i play woodsball sometimes too!


a few things that dont matter are; weight, size, and gas efficiency


as the title says, i am eying a DM or a Shocker... (and i have a mag as backup)
what are some of the pros/cons to each... or is there some other guns i should be considering?

thanks for the help!

[pmstc]

Definitely go with the DM. Actually, go with the PM made by Proto. They are just about the same design as the DM only way cheaper. You could get a PM6 in your price range.

Matrixes do need to be lubed, similar to how mags need to be oiled. I usually take mine apart and rub some Dow 33 on the bolt every time I use it, but it doesn't need to be lubed quite that often. I'd say it's probably best to relube it every 4-5 times you play. Just to keep things fresh :p Anything that goes wrong with a matrix can be fixed with a little lube, and at worse case a replacement oring. Just buy an oring kit and you'll be good.

DMs/PMs are VERY quiet. That's basically what they are known for. They are very fast and very quiet, and have very little kick. They aren't quite as small or as light or as efficient as other guns, but you've already said that doesn't really matter to you.

You can get PM5s for under 200. I got mine for $75 and it was 'broken'. All it needed was an oring, some lube, and a new board, so that ended up being about $100 total for a PM5, which is a VERY nice marker. They just don't have very good resale since DMs/PMs have a new model each year.

[Hexis]

I second that recommendation. I have a PM5 and love it. It's replaced my EMag for any speedball play. I think the PM5 is the best deal going on a cheap but good electro right now. Reliable, Consistent and Fast, all for ~$200 used. You can also find the UL Frame for a PM5 under $100 (new), which I find to be very comfortable. It's a little larger than the latest models, other than that there is not much difference.

[punkncat]

Yeah IF you are set on going with a spooler and those are the only choices def. go with the trix over the shocker. Trixes are a bit tempermental with weather changes, keep that in mind. Hot to cold especially.

A mini is a good choice to look into. Cheap and fairly simple.

As far as reliability though, I still don't think spoolers have anything on poppit valve markers. Used Timmies, and several other of the B Long series, Angels of which I am a huge fan...just not the A1, heck even the older Ego's (see Timmy). You can pick up used Imps and B2K's for near nthing nowdays and they were certainly fast enough. A little big though.

The used market is so trashed right now, it is definately a buyers market, so there will be plenty of choices avialable.

[jdc299]

what is the major differences between the PM and the DM's? i really havent looked at the PM's... any info on differences would be good.

What type of upgrades are recommended and which ones are required for the DM/PMs??



i am NOT sold on spool valve designs, just something new to try.

I used to have a Nasty Impulse back in like 2001 or 2.. i liked it.. a bit tall.. but good..

I am just a bit concerned about getting a gun that old and its reliability/availability of parts. since i only go play 2-4 times per year... reliability is most important. thats why i love my mag

[sandfreestyle]

If you want something that is realiable and to were you dont have to spend time and money all the time fixing it, then I would stay away from any of the newer guns. Most shops don't carry parts and stuff for markers that are older then 3 years unless the factory hasn't done anything to them for a while (shockers). But I also live out in Cali where everyone whats the newest big thing. I don't know how it goes for the rest of the country.

I owned a PM6 and it was ok but I hated having to fool around with it to get it to my liking. The PMs and DMs are basically the same with some minor differences. The DMs opperate at lower pressures and have a few more little tricks but nothing that I would say accounts for the price difference.

[Hexis]

The primary difference is that the DMs have an air ON/OFF in the front under the barrel (the LPR is in the back). The PMs put the LPR under the barrel, so there is no ON/OFF and nothing other than the bolt in the back. Since there is no ON/OFF the PMs have a slightly simpler design (less to go wrong) and are slightly smaller than the same year's DM. The DMs (including and after the DM6) come with a UL frame standard (an upgrade that's avaliable for all of the PMs and the DM5). The PMs do operate at a slightly higher pressure.

[jdc299]

It seems like most so far have suggested the PM's. Are there huge differences in them by years? one that tends to be more reliable? significant increases from one year to another.. ect.

also.. in terms of upgrades, which are recommended and which ones are required for them?

[sandfreestyle]

No matter what year PM you get, you have to get a Hybrid bolt guide. OMG that made a huge difference in gas effciency and made it have less kick.

I think the 07 and newer ones have a UL frame, so that would be the best.

[pmstc]

It seems like most so far have suggested the PM's. Are there huge differences in them by years? one that tends to be more reliable? significant increases from one year to another.. ect.

also.. in terms of upgrades, which are recommended and which ones are required for them?
Not really. PMs and DMs all operate almost the same, with very small differences in pressures and stuff. The main differences between years are almost always just size/weight. A PM5 will shoot just as fast as a DM8. The DM8 is just nicer.
As for upgrades, UL frames are amazing. Get a good clamping feedneck and a nice barrel, and you'll be set. Some people like to do the top hat mod, but as that raises the pressure of the firing chamber in order to get more efficiency, there is more kick and noise so you probably wouldn't want to do that.

[neppo1345]

My Shocker has never let me down no matter the weather. I tried going back to a trix, and even bought an 07 ego...but nothing shot as consistantly, and smoothly as the Shocker.

If air consumption is of concern...don.t get s spooler.

Many people here are biased against Smart Parts, so you probably won't see many others who will admit to liking Shockers.

[B-Pow]

I've shot spoolers, and always come back to stacked tube poppit valve markers. I currently use an intimidator and am quite happy. Matinance is low, easy to troubble shoot, few spots to lube. poppit valve markers tend to have better efficiency numbers and ease of matinance, but suffer from marginally more kick and are slightly louder.

[punkncat]

My Shocker has never let me down no matter the weather. I tried going back to a trix, and even bought an 07 ego...but nothing shot as consistantly, and smoothly as the Shocker.

If air consumption is of concern...don.t get s spooler.

Many people here are biased against Smart Parts, so you probably won't see many others who will admit to liking Shockers.

To be fair, I have owned two shockers, and 05 and a Shocktech. When they were working right, they were ON. Very nice shooter.
The problem I had out of the 05 is that it insisted on being cleaned after every use or it got really inconsistant the next time I used it. Not that it was a hard thing to do, but it did require keeping orings on hand to replace the ones inevitably cut when putting it back together from time to time.
The shocktech was a bit less finiky, but had terrible bolt stick issues if I didn't use it every weekend. I learned just to reach up in it with a chopstick and pull the bolt forward before I gassed it up and it didn't have a problem.
I owned both of them together less than six weeks.

[Enemy]

i have a dm5, which i absolutely love. I owned an 03 shocker and all i got out of that gun was crap, the problem was in the stock reg which smartparts was less than helpful with. I sold it to a friend a while after i got the DM and i havent looked back. my friend put on a new reg and he is very happy with the shocker but all i saw was alot of poor designing from the chronic FSDO that plagued every shocker i saw to having to replace noids, id have to say i just dont like them.

Deff. the Dm is alot better and i dont think you will look back. though if size and wieght arent an issue than you can also look into either Dm 3s or the old matrix, hell i plan on buying Matrix #275 here shortly as something to mess around with.

[jdc299]

well, it seems like i am going to get a DM/PM depending on the deal i can find.

is there any upgrades i would want to be sure to get or is there anything that i would want to stay away from?

[jdc299]

i found someone trying to sell this gun locally and was wondering if it was a good price.

PM5 proto matrix blue to black fade, orange bolt, virtue board, clamp, hybrid grips, and freak kit with Stainless front/back. for 275.

is that a good price? keep in mind it is local, so there wont be any paypal fees, shipping fees to worry about and i will be able to have the peace of mind of not getting screwed.. lol

(i already tried talking him down.. he started at 325, and is very firm at his 275)

thoughts?

[manwe33]

i found someone trying to sell this gun locally and was wondering if it was a good price.

PM5 proto matrix blue to black fade, orange bolt, virtue board, clamp, hybrid grips, and freak kit with Stainless front/back. for 275.

is that a good price? keep in mind it is local, so there wont be any paypal fees, shipping fees to worry about and i will be able to have the peace of mind of not getting screwed.. lol

(i already tried talking him down.. he started at 325, and is very firm at his 275)

thoughts?
I would say that is about 150 bucks to high or more.
I have an PM5 and a SM5. i love both of them. U cant go wrong with either one of them.
I had a shocker and hated that thing. I was allways had problems with it.

[paint magnet]

I have an ICD Promaster I bought brand new for $139 off ActionVillage. You can find them cheaper on eBay and the forums, but I couldn't ask for more at that price range.

The gun is small, light, and fast. Maintenance is simple, the eyes work great, dual detents, etc. You might want to upgrade the reg and trigger, but if you're like me you probably have a spare inline reg lying around somewhere anyway. It's not the best on air, but it suits my needs quite well.

I don't have a lot of experience with the DM line of markers, though most who use them seem to be satisfied. If you were to go that route I woud suggest at least getting 05 or newer Dye/Proto Matrices, simply because they're a lot more efficient and parts are much easier to find.

There are a couple new markers out which have gotten excellent reviews, like the Invert Mini and all of Dangerous Power's guns. They both seem to be well-made, but have not been out long enough to prove themselves IMO.

I would steer clear of the Shockers, too many bad memories of teammate's guns going down when the 03 Shockers came out. That and I hate Smart Parts.

There are a plethora of guns in that price range ($2-400) from which you can choose, both new and used. Older Intimidators, Angels, Matrices, Bushmasters, and the like are all readily available, it's just a matter of preference.