BAD Leak after co2 got in Lv7 Valve

[Bagheera]

Well, the title says it. I nearly got the whole thing working well, then I got the mag at a bad angle while screwing in the tank, got liquid co2 in the valve, and bam, co2 venting everywhere, and after that, I have the following symptoms. FYI, I've rebuilt the whole gun a 2nd time with yet another brand new seal kit, all while following the Tom Kaye video on youtube (keep in mind, I'm no airsmith.)

Symptoms before liquid co2 fiasco;

Lawn sprinkler (fixed this)
Slower recharge rate than normal


Symptoms AFTER liquid co2 fiasco;
Very, very very slow recharge (takes 30 secs or more to recharge the valve)
Leak out of where the two main body parts meet (yes I have a new o-ring here as well.)


I'm at my wit's end. Before I put my gun in the closet 15 years ago, it worked like a dream, but now that I'm trying to rebuild it, I can't get it to work right.

By the way, I got this gun waaaaay before stars, so I don't know if I can even send it in to Automag or not without getting charged.

Thanks for any help on this!

[mostpeople]

if there are no stars, then I believe they said each no star valve had 1 star after a certain date regardless of how many times its been fixed. Therefore you should most likely have 1 more free rebuild on it - call them and run your valve serial # by them..

[questionful]

Did you grease the regulator piston? And make sure the spring pack isn't backwards. And make sure EVERY O-ring is well oiled.

[Bagheera]

Didn't grease it. What kind of grease should I use? What part is the spring pack?

What's the usual turnaround time on repairs? Sorry to sound like a newb, but as I've mentioned before, I'm no airsmith. Thanks.

[athomas]

Generally, CO2 only causes a hot shot or leaking out the front or back due to the orings freezing. After everything returns to normal, it should work ok. The only thing I can think of is that your CO2 is dirty, which would cause the orings not to seal. The mag is just a regulator with a spool valve on the front. They work as long as the orings are good.

Use light synthetic oil, not grease to lubricate your mag. The only place you use grease is on your regulator spring pack, and thats just to keep it from rusting.

Check that you didn't put something in backwards. Make sure your rail bushing is in place.

Use the diagrams listed in the tech section of Airgun.com

[questionful]

I grease my regulator piston. Centerflag says to grease their regulator pistons in their hyperflows with white lithium grease, and they're basically identical to mag regs, so I use white lithium grease on both my hyperflow and my mag's reg piston.

The springpack is the thing between the regulator piston and the velocity nut.

[athomas]

Well, grease holds dirt which causes problems with the regulator piston assemblies. Centerflag regulators are mounted on a high pressure system so they have to use grease rather than oil. You can't use oil there due to its flammability under pressure.

[Bagheera]

Is it possible I may have destroyed the regulator piston with a catastrophic liquid co2 influx?

[athomas]

No, I highly doubt you destroyed anything by overloading with CO2 liquid. The valves are designed to withstand 3000psi. CO2 becomes a gas at around 850psi in normal air temperature. The worst that could have happened is you would cause an oring to freeze. Even then, I highly doubt it would get hurt. Passing liquid could allow dirt to go where is normally wouldn't be, but that is all.

Something is out of place in the valve for your marker to be acting like it is.

[Coralis]

Symptoms AFTER liquid co2 fiasco; Very, very very slow recharge (takes 30 secs or more to recharge the valve) Leak out of where the two main body parts meet (yes I have a new o-ring here as well.)

The slow recharge rate sounds like bolt stick try taking the valve out the body and putting a couple of drops of oil down the power and move the bolt back a forth, to should move fairly freely if this ok try doing the same thing to the on/off pin. If that doesnt work check for something weird like a bent detent jamming your bolt or a rusty bolt spring binding up.

Leak where the main body parts meet ? do you mean where the valves screw together if so try oiling that oring if that doesnt help go back to old oring that didnt leak or try a wrap of teflon tape on the threads. I know this is driving you nuts but its most likely like Athomas said you got some rust or debris from the CO2 bottle that is causing your problems

If you can I would recommend switching to hpa you and your mag will be alot happier

[Bagheera]

Definitely a leak where the two halves meet. It was pretty obvious the other day when it was frosting right in between, then today after getting my tank refilled, I felt the air hissing right out of the seam. The valve wasn't charging at all, just a slow hiss, and the trigger wasn't fully set because there was no air to push the trigger back against my finger. I'll check out everything mentioned above as well, thanks for the input guys.

[paint magnet]

If it's been sitting for 15 years, you probably need to run a **** load of oil through it. I would put 10 drops of (paintball specific, like KC, Gold Cup, Autolube...) oil in the ASA and dry fire it 30 or 40 times with the barrel removed.

You can use just about any light grease on the reg piston...the AGD manual recommends axle grease. Silicone grease (available at SCUBA shops) and white lithium grease (available at automotive stores) will also work.

If you get liquid in the valve, hold the gun vertically and shoot it until it starts firing normally again. People say Mags won't work off CO2 but as long as you have some way of keeping liquid out of the valve you're fine. An in-line reg like a PPS Sideline stabilizer, a remote hose, an expansion chamber, or an anti-syphon tube will all work. Getting liquid in the valve doesn't kill the o-rings nearly as fast as you would think.

[Bagheera]

Bent Pin! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I'm going to order a new one and see if it does the trick. How fast does AGD ship?

I'm wondering if I need to get a new sear as well, just to be safe.

[athomas]

A bent pin would certainly cause problems. AGD ships fairly fast. If you want faster shipping, get in touch with Tunaman here on AO.

[paint magnet]

If you're ordering something from AGD, ask them to throw in the AutoMag video as well. It's the best tech video I've ever seen for any gun and is very thorough, if somewhat dull.

I think they used to give them out free and charge $5 for shipping. If you're already ordering something they should put it in the package for free though.

[Bagheera]

I just read that Tunaman's comp went down, and may be behind on orders, so I went ahead and ordered the pin from an Ebay retailer. If I need the sear, I'm definitely getting from Tunaman.

[Bagheera]

After massive troubleshooting, I found the problem, and boy do I feel like a moron.

Classic body on classic frame with classic sear and classic everything else = :D It shoots like a mag should :clap: :shooting:


Warp Right body on classic frame with classic sear and classic everything else = :mad: Problems as noted in previous posts. Do I need a different sear, a new frame, or what? :tard:

I've already ground this frame to accomodate the warp right, but another thing I've noticed is that the female bolt threads (the ones that go right above the trigger area of the grip frame) stick out a bit farther than the classic standard feed thread. Pictures to follow.

[Coralis]

hmmm try checking to see if your rail is warped or bent, you can do this by sticking it on a flat surface. You can rule out the ule body by putting your classic body on warp rail and see how it works then.

[Bagheera]

I just ruled out the classic body because it works on my classic rail. They can't both be warped, can they? The ULE Warp Right body is having issues, and I think it's because it's not seating properly. However, the cutaway I did on the classic rail gives the Warp Right feedneck plenty of room. I'm wondering if I have to cut away a bit on the rail, where the bolt goes through the rail into the body, to get the Warp Right body to sit a bit lower.

[Coralis]

I dont have any experience dealing with warp bodies, but saying that if it sits down on the rail flat I would think it would be ok. I know some people posted about that it was possible to screw the ball detents in too far and that it would damage the detents and cause bolt stick.

[Bagheera]

From what I can tell, when it's classic body on classic rail, the sear engages the on/off all the way. When it's warp body on classic rail (despite the cutout) the sear isn't engaging the on/off all the way, causing a bad leak and slow recharge.

[Coralis]

can you tell whats hanging up the sear from fully engaging ?

[MagModderMatt]

Sear's are almost never the sole problem, I think I know your problem.. If you are using a classic rail, valve w/a warp ULE body you may have a problem with the on/off pin length. If your sear isnt charging fully to the charge your on/off pin is not long enough with your ULE WARP Body. I dont know what on/off assembly you have but assuming you have a AM/MM on/off you have made the length from sear to on/off when charged to long
(Your on/off cant reach your sear fully)
The gun is airing up, the on/off pin just does not come out far enough to fully push your sear. I havent used my classic mag for years.. but I am guessing that is the problem.(I'm not sure if you can put spacers in the on/off) but you seem to have a pin length shortage

(your sear will RARELY be the problem) when it is, its the clevis arm.. Sear's are hardened steel, hard to break.
the lock tite on the threads is the only thing that can go wrong on sears, making the arm to long or short. they are very tough.

Try making the tip of your sear longer by sanding/cutting the top side (not where the sear hits the on/off) after sanding that till you can see a difference, make the arm a bit longer on the clevis..

that is harsh fix, but only one for your warp body, I think

everyone else pls weigh in, you may have better ideas Questionfull what do u think??[U]

[athomas]

The pim (female threaded protrusion on the bottom of the body) is probably bottoming out on the rail. The classic rails had a hole in the rail that was not quite as deep as the retro rails. This caused some newer bodies to appear to be tight but was off by just enough to cause firing issues. I actually had this issue when using a steel emag body on a classic rail. A fix for this was to grind just a bit off the bottom of the pim to allow the body to sit down tighter on the rail.

[Bagheera]

The pim (female threaded protrusion on the bottom of the body) is probably bottoming out on the rail. The classic rails had a hole in the rail that was not quite as deep as the retro rails. This caused some newer bodies to appear to be tight but was off by just enough to cause firing issues. I actually had this issue when using a steel emag body on a classic rail. A fix for this was to grind just a bit off the bottom of the pim to allow the body to sit down tighter on the rail.

Should I grind (shorten) the pim on the ULE body or should I grind and deepen the seat on the rail? I've considered doing one or the other, but I want to do the one that is most effective.

[Coralis]

it would probably be easier to grind the pim on the body

[Bagheera]

it would probably be easier to grind the pim on the body

That's what I'm thinking too.

[athomas]

Grinding the pim is the easiest solution. That's the one that I did as well. It doesn't take much. Just take a course file and make a few passes across it.

[MagModderMatt]

He's right, I just didn't think of that. "The body will fit flush if you grind it" Genious!
cant grind too far either, so perfect solution
AThomas :dance: deserves that!

I was overengineering the problem. that there is a very easy fix, I'm almost sure it will work :clap:

[MAGslinger]

That's why I always use a remote with my Mini whenever I use Co2

[Bagheera]

I just can't seem to get the warp right ULE body to mesh well with the stock rail. I've even ground down the upper sides of the rail, so it sits real flat, but nothing seems to work. I have no more slow hiss from where the sear hits the on/off, but no fast recharge like I get with the stock body on the stock rail. I get an initial good shot after gas up, but slow/no recharge with the ULE warp right.

Has anyone else had experience grinding a stock rail to fit a ULE or warp right/left body? What am I doing wrong?

[Spider-TW]

I get an initial good shot after gas up, but slow/no recharge with the ULE warp right.
It sounds like you are getting there. It sounds like the on/off pin is too long for the way it sits in the ULE body (probably a different tilt of the valve body). You can test this by putting some scrap shim material like brass under the valve and see if the recharge improves. If it does, you probably have some other fitting issue to work out.

[Bagheera]

It sounds like you are getting there. It sounds like the on/off pin is too long for the way it sits in the ULE body (probably a different tilt of the valve body). You can test this by putting some scrap shim material like brass under the valve and see if the recharge improves. If it does, you probably have some other fitting issue to work out.

In order to hold the valve up higher, but not the pin? Would something like a washer suffice for this test? Or do you mean shimming the pin, but not the valve assembly?

[athomas]

If you get some shims (ULT or level 7), put them in between the two halves of the on-off assembly. They will simulate a shorter on-off pin. If you have no shims, use shim stock and make some yourself.

Note: ULT shims are 0.005" thick and level 10 shims are 0.010" thick.

[Bagheera]

If you get some shims (ULT or level 7), put them in between the two halves of the on-off assembly. They will simulate a shorter on-off pin. If you have no shims, use shim stock and make some yourself.

Note: ULT shims are 0.005" thick and level 10 shims are 0.010" thick.


I'm on the hunt for shims. For now, I found (and am ordering) the level 10 shims from the AGD site. However, would getting a ULT or RT on/off fix my problems altogether? I know that getting either will lighten my trigger pull regardless, and this can't be a bad thing (other than firing like a moron and short-stroking the trigger pull.)

[athomas]

If I were to get a new on-off assembly, I would get the retro on-off rather than the ULT on-off. The ULT may or may not work properly in the classic.

[Spider-TW]

If you get the shims and the RT on/off, you should have the parts neeeded to compensate for a poor rail/valve/body fit. The RT pin should be the same length as the classic pin, but you can add the shims to the on/off itself to effectively shorten the pin.

[Bagheera]

Thank you so much everyone, you've all been a HUGE help! The gun fires scary accurate now, and is working perfectly, thanks! =)

Looks like this gentleman is having the same problem;

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233194