Has any ever tried to make a Titanium bolt for the Automag?

[MAGslinger]

Just think of how much more gas-efficent (and faster) a RT or X-Valve would be if there were a titanium bolt you could buy for your automag? Has any ever attempted to market something like that?

[mr.mag218]

Just think of how much more gas-efficent (and faster) a RT or X-Valve would be if there were a titanium bolt you could buy for your automag? Has any ever attempted to market something like that? how would the exact same bolt design made of different material make it more gas efficiant?

[BigEvil]

The ptp lvl 7 venturi bolt was either Ti or Ti nitride plated.

The material and weight of the bolt isnt really the issue when it comes to gas mileage.

[ElPanda]

I remember reading one of TK's posts discussing why he never really made anything out of titanium, cause it was expensive, more difficult to machine, and only had benefits if you used less of it.

I remember he made a batch of valves out of Ti to see if there was any differnce (they were heavier) and they got mixed in with normal valves, so somewhere out there are Ti valves that nobody knows about, he wanted one for his collection if I recall correctly.

[snoopay700]

I remember reading one of TK's posts discussing why he never really made anything out of titanium, cause it was expensive, more difficult to machine, and only had benefits if you used less of it.

I remember he made a batch of valves out of Ti to see if there was any differnce (they were heavier) and they got mixed in with normal valves, so somewhere out there are Ti valves that nobody knows about, he wanted one for his collection if I recall correctly.
I thought they ended up weighing the same. Hmm, i'm going to have to try to find that thread and resolve this.

But yeah, as for saving weight, you're probably not going to find a lighter and stronger bolt than the level 10.

[MoeMag]

Isnt the stem inside the bolt welded in... Good luck doing that with Ti.

[ajnin]

ti eats tools.

[Raven001]

Just think of how much more gas-efficent (and faster) a RT or X-Valve would be if there were a titanium bolt you could buy for your automag? Has any ever attempted to market something like that?

Around 94-95, Venom Toxic Toys or some one like that made what was claimed to be a Ti bolt for the Mag. It certainly was light and did help the rate of fire somewhat. It was too light and it wore out really quickly from rubbing against the spring and where the sear held the bolt. Don't remember it making any difference to the amount of air used.

[michbich]

There wasn't much diference in weight between the Ti and SS valves. The reason was: Ti weighs colse to SS, but is stronger. So you would need less of Ti in weight to equal the strenght of SS. Unfortunatly, they couldn't change the size of the valve for obvious reasons so the weight were pretty close.

Here is the Ti valve thread:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=211583&highlight=titanium+valve

[egb groupie]

I wonder why no one has ever tried to do a spring kit for the Mag, similar to to what NDZ did for the Invert Mini. Worked pretty good for them...

[trevorjk]

I wonder why no one has ever tried to do a spring kit for the Mag, similar to to what NDZ did for the Invert Mini. Worked pretty good for them...

level 10

[ElPanda]

oh it was lighter not heavier :tard:

[snoopay700]

oh it was lighter not heavier :tard:
Ok, that's what i thought, i thought it was either the same or the weight savings were marginal.

[ajnin]

titanium is a lot more brittle as well.. seems in an application like a constanly moving bolt that is slamming into other parts, brittle wouldnt be so great.

[egb groupie]

level 10
I was meaning more like adjusting the actual strength of the springs, versus the lvl 10 springs which are basically all the same spring, just in various lengths. Could be interesting experimenting with the lvl 7 bolt.

[questionful]

I don't think titanium would be the best choice for a bolt. Whatever material you use, you'd probably have to use stainless steel inserts on the contact surfaces to address wear. This would be the edge that the sear catches, and depending on what material you use for the rest of the bolt, maybe a thin sleeve around the main part of the bolt. Maybe the bolt stem. But I think for a lighter bolt, the best way to go would be some sort of plastic with a stainless steel edge.


I was meaning more like adjusting the actual strength of the springs, versus the lvl 10 springs which are basically all the same spring, just in various lengths. Could be interesting experimenting with the lvl 7 bolt.

As soon as you slide the valve into the mainbody, the spring is compressed to a certain length, no matter how long it was to begin with. The result is different strength springs. If you want a spring shorter than the gold spring, just cut it down.

[Bang and Breach]

Someone should make a bolt out of dragonforce, the hardest metal known to man.

[SR_matt]

ok titanium is no lighter than steel it is just that it is stronger thus you can use less. im not sure if the difference that you could gain in that small of a space and application would me very big. you could probably tweak the efficiency a touch up and gain a slightly faster cycle but the mag can already cycle well over 20 CPS and the efficiency, well lets be honest they are like jeeps... they can go any where do any thing take almost any hit but efficient they are not

the mag inherently has the one design flaw of being thirsty when it comes to air. there are probably ways to gain a lot of efficiency using the same idea but with modifications through out, just many people do not think a lot of the changes will work or that the changes are hype.


now all that being said, if i had the cash to buy a titanium bolt i might, just to say i had a titanium bolt... then again i also would take a Ti cocker and mag body and a 24 kt gold plate body for every gun i own.

-matt

[ThePixelGuru]

I was meaning more like adjusting the actual strength of the springs, versus the lvl 10 springs which are basically all the same spring, just in various lengths. Could be interesting experimenting with the lvl 7 bolt.
Yes, but when you compress the springs to the length of the bolt's travel they all become the same length, and the only thing that's different is the actual strength of the springs. ;)

Besides, you do that on a lvl7 and all you'll get is bolt stick, that's why the lvl10 has the vent so it can actually reset. There's a reason there aren't many aftermarket internals for the 'mag. AGD shot themselves in the foot in that department because they just made everything right the first time. The motto is "because quality always shoots straight," not "because quality shoots straight after you pour a couple hundred bucks into aftermarket parts kits we just should have included in the first place."

I think there was an AGD tech who had a necklace made out of aftermarket parts he removed from people's 'mags in order to get them working again. Name escapes me, though.

[questionful]

AGD shot themselves in the foot in that department because they just made everything right the first time. The motto is "because quality always shoots straight," not "because quality shoots straight after you pour a couple hundred bucks into aftermarket parts kits we just should have included in the first place."
:clap:


I think there was an AGD tech who had a necklace made out of aftermarket parts he removed from people's 'mags in order to get them working again. Name escapes me, though.

I would LOVE to have a picture of that to put a caption on!

[Bang and Breach]

:clap:



I would LOVE to have a picture of that to put a caption on!



I think there was an AGD tech who had a necklace made out of aftermarket parts he removed from people's 'mags in order to get them working again. Name escapes me, though.

Dawn Mills owns that necklace.

[paint magnet]

Someone should make a bolt out of dragonforce, the hardest metal known to man.

Dragonforce is not that hard, just fast.

Also, titanium is not harder than steel as most believe, it just has a higher strength-to-weight ratio. It's stronger than aluminum and lighter than steel, not stronger and lighter than both.

Honestly, 90 percent of the "titanium" products on the market are just labeled that way because people have no idea about which items would benefit from its use. Take for example drill bits and hedge clippers with titanium coatings--the only real benfit would be corrosion resistance. Coating steel with titanium doesn't make it lighter or stronger. A lot of the "titanium coated" products I've seen are gold in color anyway, which just goes to show people will buy anything based on the name.

[Bang and Breach]

[QUOTE=paint magnet]Dragonforce is not that hard, just fast.

A form of humor that is marked by mocking with irony, sometimes conveyed in speech with vocal over-emphasis; An act of sarcasm

[SR_matt]

Dragonforce is not that hard, just fast.

Also, titanium is not harder than steel as most believe, it just has a higher strength-to-weight ratio. It's stronger than aluminum and lighter than steel, not stronger and lighter than both.

Honestly, 90 percent of the "titanium" products on the market are just labeled that way because people have no idea about which items would benefit from its use. Take for example drill bits and hedge clippers with titanium coatings--the only real benfit would be corrosion resistance. Coating steel with titanium doesn't make it lighter or stronger. A lot of the "titanium coated" products I've seen are gold in color anyway, which just goes to show people will buy anything based on the name.
titanium can be gold n color, just requires either electrical anodizing or if it is a form of titanium (titanium oxide is white and titanium nitrate is black, color isnt the best way to judge necessarily)

titanium holds up to some things better but is much differant than steel and the temper of the metal is a much bigger thing that just what material it is, you can have a "Steel" piece that wont hold as much as an "aluminum" piece just because of the temper/ heat treat

-matt