The Cadlac Effect

[Maghog]

Every once in a while, someone gives me a good idea, and once in a blue moon, someone gives me a really good idea. This might be one of the top such occurrences in my life, a chance to create a seriously fun little gadget.
Let me explain.

In 2001 I invented the RT Enhancer, a neat little trigger.

Check it out here: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWaywardWarthog

This year a guy who's name was only revealed as, "Cadlac" asked me if it was possible to incorperate the Enhancer design into an E-Mag trigger, and I immediately started feeling wobbly all over.
I don't know why I never thought of it before, but when inspired, there was no stopping me. In the end, make your own judgement, but I think this thing has quite bit of potential, given the versatility
of the E-mag with the different modes. I don't have an E-mag available for testing, so it will have to wait.
For now, what do you think?
Dan@Triggernomics

Here you go:

http://www.triggernomics.us/static/Cadlac01.jpg

http://www.triggernomics.us/static/Cadlac02.jpg

[Warwitch]

Ooooo, art + function! Da Vinci would be proud. :hail:

[Toll]

Looks great and if it functions like I think it would then that's one hell of a cheater trigger ^.^

[bunny5]

Then where the hell did this go!?!??!!? lol.... i sure hope thats an e-mag... :(

http://home.gwi.net/~aidtwo/IMG_0745_1.JPG

[ThePixelGuru]

That's a great idea... I really want to see that in action now.

[BigEvil]

That's a great idea... I really want to see that in action now.

Agreed

[Maghog]

Well I want to see it in action too, but we'll have to wait. I'll be in the States for a bit towards the end of the summer, and I want to try it in my Micro E-Mag while I'm there. I just don't know if everything will work because it's been years since I've seen my stuff.
What really makes me giddy is the thought of using it in hybrid mode. It just might go nuts.

bunny-that E-Mag is my nemisis. I haven't touched it in over a year now and I fear I may never finish it simply because of its complexity. I always thought that the cocker would be my masterpiece, but the E-mag has a much more beautiful flow to it, and many more intricate parts, not to mention a few hundred more hours of work in it.
Finishing it will take at least another 300 hours of work, and the thought of that scares me.

I'm working on a different mag now, so at least I'm still going.
Later,
Dan

[Maghog]

I just thought I'd mention one more thing.
That video is pre-level ten, and there are ZERO ball breaks.
I'll admit that it had good days and bad ones, but when it ran, it ran, which for me, proves that the entire Mag design is contingient on tuning and nothing else.
Long live the RT!
Dan

[SummaryJudgement]

:wow:

[DanMan]

enlighten me on the operation of this trigger.

[maniacmechanic]

I can't believe no one has offered to try it out for you ( I've got an E Mag or 3 :D )

[NU_METAL]

enlighten me on the operation of this trigger.

thats sort of what i want to know :confused: great idea & design but,..
question ; in vid was it on mech mode / e mode or hybrid ?(mech w/pin pulled out )
and does it slam into the sear rod ? / or / did you cut it down ?
by the way ,im really diggin that battery pack ,looks as if you ran C cells (rechargable's) in series :clap:

[drg]

enlighten me on the operation of this trigger.

Looks like it basically has a floating trigger with stops and a spring that contacts the actual trigger so that you can set it to 'sweet spot' no matter how hard you mash the trigger, because it will apply a consistent pressure to the actual trigger.

[questionful]

^^Right.

Now what would be different about that on an E-mag is what I want to know.

[trevorjk]

^^Right.

Now what would be different about that on an E-mag is what I want to know.

because the e-mag trigger has the magnets the affect the hall sensor. think hybrid mode, but MUCH MUCH easier to sweet spot to maximum bps.

[Gunga]

I made something similar out of a stock E-Mag trigger about 5-6 years ago. The 'float' is somewhat adjustable. An early version would sometimes just start firing on it's own as I was walking around with the gun. Just the bounce from walking around (or a good shake) would get the trigger moving enough to activate the HES. Once it started it'd just keep on going without having to touch the trigger. :D I've adjusted it so it doesn't do the bounce-o-rama anymore. It's a nice superlight trigger with a great feel.

Never really messed around with it in hybrid. I go through enough paint as it is in straight mechanical mode, let alone E or hybrid. Shooting stupid fast gets boring. And expensive.

[trevorjk]

Gunga is alive :eek:

[Gunga]

Gunga is alive :eek:

Yeah...mostly lurk these days since most threads are the same old stuff regurgitated over and over. And over.

[trevorjk]

Yeah...mostly lurk these days since most threads are the same old stuff regurgitated over and over. And over.

sometimes you get some fun chunks :D

you should totally hit up Eryk at Sally's and we should play sometime!

[ThePixelGuru]

So where can I get a R/T enhancer? I think my R/T needs to be a little more terrifying... :argh:

It would probably end up having to be a custom job, huh? :(

[Warwitch]

It would probably end up having to be a custom job, huh? :(


Yeah, why dont you license to a shop that will make more than one! Dan is an E-tease. :cuss:

[Maghog]

I am not planning on putting any triggers into production, I just did this because it was fun. Making one the way I do is labor intensive and involved.
I've had offers to test this trigger, and I appreciate it, but I'd rather hold on to it.I can't wait to put it into my mag and see what it does.
The mag seen in the video is an original mechanical RT. The battery pack on the front is an 18 Volt Makita rechargeable that I hooked up to the Warp Feed, so it could keep up with the Enhancer.
It worked out well enough, and I scared the hell out of a bunch of people when I went to the chrono station for the first time with it.
Like Gunga said there are certain things you can do with a trigger like this to make it go wild, but it's kind of scary when your hopper is empty before you even have the chance to get another pod in your hand. You're not shooting cents per second any more, but dollars!
Dan

[ManInBlack]

Maghog, I don't suppose you'd be willing to put up some more pictures of your RT Enhancer? If you'd rather not put them into production I wouldn't mind trying to build one myself (which obviously won't be a pretty as yours). I take it it's very similar to the emag version you have posted above. Anyway, if you could post up some more info on it I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

[SN toter]

Maghog, I don't suppose you'd be willing to put up some more pictures of your RT Enhancer? If you'd rather not put them into production I wouldn't mind trying to build one myself (which obviously won't be a pretty as yours). I take it it's very similar to the emag version you have posted above. Anyway, if you could post up some more info on it I'd appreciate it. Thanks!


Agreed, I'd pay good money to get one of those in one of my RT's.

[Thotograph]

How stiffly sprung is it? Did it make the pull a bit softer? My guess would be yes. Lol looks like just about any agglet could RT a mag with the enhancer on it. Lol 18v drill battery wow thats some serious juice. What kind of input pressures did you run with it?

[Maghog]

I'd be happy to go into detail for you guys, unfortunately I can't find the write-up I did on it years ago, which would be easy to paste and post, so I'll have to stick with typing. I don't have any other pics at the moment, but I'll get around to it at some point.

Here goes:
The principle of the Enhancer is simple. The RT requires about 3-5 pounds of pressure on the trigger to actuate, and the instant return force lies somewhere between 6-8 pounds. So the first thing you need is a compression spring that has 5-6 pounds of resistance on it. Integrating a spring adjustment (just like the ones found on any blow-back mainspring design) can be very handy for fine tuning, other wise, a multitude of springs are needed to tune properly. I spent endless hours clipping springs and trying different input pressures, so beware that this is not just something you drop in and rip away on.
It needs time.
The rest of the design is really simple. The trigger pivot pin acts as a hinge for two independent pieces The back piece interacts with the sear, and the front part is attached to the trigger. By touching the trigger, you apply pressure on the spring that is settled between the two pieces. The spring has enough strength to push the sear rod back, but not enough to keep it back. The RT Valve takes care of the rest after that, and thus the fun begins. Caught between pull and push force, the back piece goes wacky while your fingers just hold the trigger in position.
In the video, you see my fingers bounce a lot. That was the case with the prototype because the design was slightly different. With the final design (which I never made a video of) it was more the other way around as I described.
Input pressure was around 1000 psi, and I definitely reccommenndd a warp feed set up with at least 12 Volts of power. With 18 Volts, like I have it set up there, the warp feed really screamed, and had no problems keeping up.

I only ever over shot one person, and he got hit about 20 times. I said I was sorry and he laughed and asked me if he could buy my RT. I said no, and I still have it in the states to this day. It is my absolute favorite gun, and I would never part with it.

I'd be happy to answer any other questions, and would love to hear about the triggers that you guys make.
Dan

[Enemy]

i dont think it will do anything in hybrid-mode from your description of the way it works in a mechanical, the reason being is that the magnet that activates the hall sensor is on the front piece, while the back part with the spring is absorbing all of the force created by the trigger rod, you may have more success moving the magnet to be connected to the sprung back piece so that it moves with the back piece and the trigger itself can remain motionless which would be more accurate to the activation process of your original design.

now on the other side you may be able to get a smoother bounce this way as the spring will absorb the harsh hit of the trigger rod and then push your finger foward with a lighter pressure making it easier to control how you sweetspot the trigger so i guess there are advantages to both designs as the other way i mentioned would be more on/off than controlable.

[ManInBlack]

Thanks for the description. I was wondering about your fingers bouncing in the video, thinking that shouldn't happen. Well, I'm off to find some metal to work on and see what I come up with. Cheers! :cheers:

[Maghog]

Actually Enemy, with the final version, your finger does still move a little bit, although not as much as seen in the video, and given the the threaded magnet on the trigger, one should be able to trigger the hall sensor three or four times in between the mechanical action.
To be honest, I don't really know what will happen when it's on the E-mag, but it's fun to wonder.

ManInBlack, let us know what happens.

Dan

[Thotograph]

Dangit, I don't make triggers. However, this makes me want to. It's so simple and yet pure genius. Then again most brilliant designs are simple in nature. I look at the best products in my line of work and the same holds true for the most part.

So I guess with the spring being equal to the pull tension it doesn't really effect the inward stroke all that much. Just softens the return. Curious was it still possible to shoot single shots, or was it mostly doubles and up?

Does the saying "necessity is the mother of invention" apply here? I think not... but it sure is cool.

[Maghog]

You can fire single shots by pulling the trigger all the way back,which puts you past the sweet spot. But it doesn't really work well if you want to try to fire multiple single shots. At some point it starts double firing.

[Thotograph]

I love getting those single shot eliminations when possible but meh...

I was just thinking a sleeper single trigger version of the enhancer would be pretty sweet. Make the agglets think twice :p

[ManInBlack]

Ok, Don't laugh at me...

















This is what I have so far...

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF0449.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF0447.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF0453.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF0454.jpg

I had to sacrifice an old double trigger and brass door hinge to create the work of art that is currently gracing your screens :rofl:

Anyway, it looks like it will be functional at least, if not pretty. Just need to get a spring mounted in there and give it a try. Comments? Suggestions?

[Maghog]

The pivot point is wrong. You now have two independent points of movement on one piece. This is similar to the way that the original prototype was, which causes the finger to bounce more.

I never mentioned it, but the final version of the Enhancer was much more sensitive, and much easier to sweetspot. It also sustained the rapid fire endlessly until you let go. In the video, you notice that I have to be more focused on the pull so it would activate. If I had the time to make a video of the final version back then, you'd see a much more impressive performance.

What you have there might work ManInBlack, but you'll discover that using the trigger pinhole in the gripframe as your hinge will give you much better results and eliminate some frustrations.
You need to drill a bit of a recess into the metal so the spring doesn't slip out during use, and I hope that your back piece is wide enough so the sear makes full contact with it.

I might be sounding nitpicky, but I'm trying to help you past some potholes that I've bumped into on the road.

Keep it up, you'll get there.
Dan

[ManInBlack]

Ok, so you're talking about 1 pivot point for both pieces using the original trigger pin hole, right?

Once I got mine on the frame I realized it would bounce a bit. I haven't addressed how to mount the spring in there yet but it's on my to-figure-out list. I may yet try to get this design to work just so I can get a little more practice in with the fabrication and whatnot.

[Maghog]

Sounds good, I'll try taking mine apart and taking some more pictures so you can see more detail.
Dan

[ManInBlack]

Maghog, what exactly is this thing I've highlighted here?

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/whatsthis.jpg

I originally thought it was a second pivot point, which is why I designed my trigger the way I did. After looking at it I can see where the real pivot point is but I can't figure out why you have what looks like a set screw there

[Looper]

I'm just guessing.

but could it be a fine tune adjustment to take the side slop out of the trigger once it is installed in the frame. And /Or to adjust the reactiveness of the RT effect by making the pivot have more friction.

[ManInBlack]

Good thinking there.

[Maghog]

No, that is a lockout screw, so you can combine the two pieces and have it function as a normal trigger.
Yet another thing I didn't mention, I'm starting to get sloppy.
While we're on "slop" I have noticed that a certain amount of wobble is a good thing for a trigger. Five tenths of a millimeter is perfect.

[ManInBlack]

Ok, so this is a little closer to what we need?
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/rtenhancer2.jpg

Original pivot point for both pieces and what should be enough room for a spring. I'll probably follow the green lines I've overlaid on the picture so it doesn't interfere with the grip screw. Thoughts anyone?

Also, where would I be able to get some aluminum stock to build this out of? couldn't find anything at the local hardware store.

[Maghog]

This is better, and basically what you are after, although you might try a design which is more comfortable for your fingers.
I will get those pictures up as soon as I can so you have more detail.
Dan

[snoopay700]

For aluminum stock, i remember looking up aluminum roundstock on google and i actually came up with a few places that had excellent prices, you might try the same, if i recall it was like 5 to 10 bucks for a meter of the roundstock i was looking at, but that was a year ago so i don't know, and i can't remember which site it was for the life of me.

[Maghog]

Aluminum is usually pretty cheap. Just find a local machinist and he'll have some.

[luke]

www.onlinemetals.com

[Coralis]

Gee i wonder what the market would be for a device like this ??

[ManInBlack]

I know everyone has been dying to see the next mangled piece of aluminum to come out of my basement :rolleyes: , so here it is:

I roughed up some general "trigger like" shapes
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1069.jpg

Between a hacksaw, files, and a dremel, this is where they're at now
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1081.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1083.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1078.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1077.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1075.jpg

Not pretty, but it seems to have the necessary movement. Once I find a couple springs to experiment with I think I'll be able to cut the intermediate piece down a bit. I'll also be tapping set screws where I need them. Thoughts?

[Rudz]

your a very determined little boy... :hail:

[ManInBlack]

Well, it ain't gonna mill itself...

[snoopay700]

Well, it ain't gonna mill itself...
Have you seen what aluminum does by itself in the bathroom? For all you know it could very well mill itself...

[warbeak2099]

Have you seen what aluminum does by itself in the bathroom? For all you know it could very well mill itself...

Lol.

I haven't been following this thread till now but man am I impressed. I can't wait to see if this can be replicated!

[Maghog]

You're getting there!
I should be shot for not posting any pictures in here as I promised, but you don't need my help anymore from the looks of it.
Keep it up!
Dan

[Temo Vryce]

ManInBlack: For taking just a little advice from Dan, that's awesome. I wish you the best of luck with this.

Maghog: Shot or not, picture would still be nice.

[kevdupuis]

Temo don't you be getting any unnatural ideas now. :eek:

My wallet was crying just watching the video.

[ManInBlack]

Well, I had a bit of a brainstorm last night and started going a different direction with this trigger idea. I wanted to come up with something that would be a single piece for greater strength at the pivot point. I haven't quite got it working yet but I think the idea here is sound.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1095.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1096b.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1097b.jpg

The problem I'm having is that the flexible metal piece permanently bends after about 5 shots. I think it's steel (it's the only thing the hardware store had :( ). Any suggestions as to what type of metal (or whatever) would work here? I'm even considering a hinged piece with a spring between. Thoughts?

[warbeak2099]

Hhhhmmm, I wonder what they use to make the tab on micro switches? That should work.

[snoopay700]

That is awesome, now you need a big set screw at the bottom so you can just hold it. :)

[Empyreal Rogue]

I see what you're trying to accomplish, but if you're trying to get the same trigger effect MagHog has, shouldn't you add a spring in there as well? The idea is to create a bounce between the trigger and trigger rod, which requires some kind of flexibility. To create that effect you'd need a strong, yet thin and light alloy metal to get it to bounce without a spring.

[ManInBlack]

That's what I'm saying. the metal I have in there worked for about 5 shots before it bent. I need something a bit more flexible and strong enough not to bend. This one was close, but I'm trying to figure out what to use next.

[secretweaponevan]

That's what I'm saying. the metal I have in there worked for about 5 shots before it bent. I need something a bit more flexible and strong enough not to bend. This one was close, but I'm trying to figure out what to use next.

Magnets?

[Maghog]

You're thinking of spring steel, the steel that they make springs out of.

It's an interesting version that you have there, and using a thick enough piece of spring steel might work. I could see some different kinds of problems happening, but it also could work well.

I can't wait to see what happens,
Dan

[blake20]

What you need is some tempered steel that would hold it's shape, or a small pc of flat stock spring steel. For a pc of tempered steel you might try steel banding material, it's cheap and readily available but hard to work with. As for spring steel good luck I have not seen any as thin as your looking for but I'm sure it's made.

[TippmannGuy]

I would try to temper it by heating the piece with a torch or heat source then cool it rapidly by placing the piece in water. You can try this and it'll cost you nothing but time. I would look to get the steel to change shade to a light orange, shade immerse it in water then test in the tigger.

Hopefully this can help you complete your project :cheers:

[Beezleboss]

you could try a piece of fiberglass, its stiff and springy, but it would probably have to be thicker than that piece of steel in the pic
or maybe some stainless

[ManInBlack]

I'll try that, thanks.

[snoopay700]

you could try a piece of fiberglass, its stiff and springy, but it would probably have to be thicker than that piece of steel in the pic
or maybe some stainless
Fiberglass would probably break. Stainless would probably bend.

[ManInBlack]

I'm going to try for some spring steel and see what I can do. I tried tempering a piece of what I have and it bends even easier.

[warbeak2099]

Magnets?

Woah that would be interesting. He'd need a magnet on the end of the sear rod and a magnet on the trigger.

[ManInBlack]

That would have to be a pretty strong magnet.

[snoopay700]

That would have to be a pretty strong magnet.
Ah, i'm sure you could do it :rofl:

Get the rare earth ones that you can't get apart if you get them stuck, or get huge ones, but i don't think magnets would work.

[TwilightG]

Woah that would be interesting. He'd need a magnet on the end of the sear rod and a magnet on the trigger.

I was thinking that he could use a magnet on the back of the trigger and a magnet on metal strip. This would be similar to putting a spring between the two and possibly help prevent the metal from bending...

Either way, they'd probably need to be pretty strong.

[Beezleboss]

Fiberglass would probably break. Stainless would probably bend.
thats what i was thinking about the fiberglass too, but id say its worth a try cuz its cheap and easy to work with, but i wouldnt go out and buy the cloth and resin if thats all i was gonna use it for, but about the stainless, i thought it was stiffer, another idea though, maybe use a piece of an old hacksaw blade, i dont think that would bend

[MAGslinger]

I wish I could get one of my trigger frames modified with that! It would be nice if you posted a how-to for that (they already have a how-to for phneumags for crying out loud). Once your done please let us all know how you did it.

[ManInBlack]

Uh, I used a hacksaw and some files? Not much to it other than that.

[ManInBlack]

I HAVE FOUND THE MOTHERLOAD!!! :clap:

So I went up to my dad's place because he has a bunch of junk in the garage and I remembered seeing some bandsaw blades there before. Turns out he had a broken one I can use for this. It's about 10 feet long and almost 1.5 inches wide! There is enough steel in my basement right now to make a couple hundred of these triggers. In any case, here's what my trigger looks like now:
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1119b.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1120b.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1122b.jpg

I actually had to thin the metal down a bit. It will now bend all to way until it touches the main part of the trigger and it comes right back, no permanent bending. It still may be too strong, but I can't test it because I have no air until friday. :(

[ManInBlack]

Woo Hoo!!!

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i121.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/DSCF1126.flv">

[snoopay700]

SWEEET!

Arr, that be a good job you did there.

[russc]

Hey, great job! Looks terrible, would look great on my junkyard RT!

[Maghog]

Very nice job Man In Black. Very nice indeed. :clap:
Dan

[ManInBlack]

Thanks guys.


Hey, great job! Looks terrible, would look great on my junkyard RT!

You're right, it looks hideous but it works. Funny thing is this is intended for my prettiest mag. :rolleyes:

I might spend some time trying to clean it up a bit, but right now I want to get paint in it and flang some downfield :shooting:

[hellbatman]

You know...thinking about it...this could actually be fairly easy with strong earth magnets...
I Googled up some magnets...found a retailer selling them in many different sizes and shapes...
http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/SearchResult-CategoryID-28.html
Just mill a little slot into your trigger frame to house the magnet...and a slot onto the back of your trigger with a bit of an epoxy and your in business!
Perhaps a pair of these (http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/detail-ID-126.html) and maybe even a set screw to adjust the amount of push via distancing of the magnets from eachother...
What do you guys think?
Should I try doodling up a little bit of a visual aid?

[Beezleboss]

You know...thinking about it...this could actually be fairly easy with strong earth magnets...
I Googled up some magnets...found a retailer selling them in many different sizes and shapes...
http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/SearchResult-CategoryID-28.html
Just mill a little slot into your trigger frame to house the magnet...and a slot onto the back of your trigger with a bit of an epoxy and your in business!
Perhaps a pair of these (http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/detail-ID-126.html) and maybe even a set screw to adjust the amount of push via distancing of the magnets from eachother...
What do you guys think?
Should I try doodling up a little bit of a visual aid?

you just described a magnetic return for a trigger, if you want to have magnets do what maninblack and maghog did with springs, youd have to put a magnet on the sear and another on the trigger, and youd probably have to make some sort of guide for the sear too, it seems alot more difficult than what they have done

[warbeak2099]

you just described a magnetic return for a trigger, if you want to have magnets do what maninblack and maghog did with springs, youd have to put a magnet on the sear and another on the trigger, and youd probably have to make some sort of guide for the sear too, it seems alot more difficult than what they have done

You wouldn't need to put a magnet on the sear rod. You have a magnet on the trigger and a magnet on a lever connected at a pivot point to the trigger.

[ManInBlack]

So you're describing the same thing MagHog has pictured on the first page but with opposing magnets instead of a spring. That sounds like it has a much better chance of working than putting a magnet on the sear. I may have to try that with the first trigger I started working on. I have a couple small rare earth magnets sticking around somewhere...

[Empyreal Rogue]

So you're describing the same thing MagHog has pictured on the first page but with opposing magnets instead of a spring. That sounds like it has a much better chance of working than putting a magnet on the sear. I may have to try that with the first trigger I started working on. I have a couple small rare earth magnets sticking around somewhere...

I sort of did something like that with my Pneumag, to help with the short stroking. It does help, but it can get kinda tricky.

[snoopay700]

I sort of did something like that with my Pneumag, to help with the short stroking. It does help, but it can get kinda tricky.
I'm doing that right now! and it cost me about 18 bucks less than getting the stuff from a dealer. Huzzah!

[Empyreal Rogue]

I'm doing that right now! and it cost me about 18 bucks less than getting the stuff from a dealer. Huzzah!

Radio shack magnets for the win. :D

[snoopay700]

Radio shack magnets for the win. :D
Yup, i need to wait 2 weeks till the big game to finish my magnet mod though.

[ThePixelGuru]

Even better, stick a rare earth magnet on the end of your trigger rod and sew another into the finger of your glove. It's a new take on an old dirty trick.

Don't let the kiddies on PBN get a hold of that one, though, or they'll be buying up all the old R/T 'mags to make some mech cheaters. :ninja:

[ManInBlack]

Now with paint and a little surprise at the end...

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i121.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/ManInBlacksAutotrigger.flv">

[TwilightG]

Sick! :wow:

:hail:

MagHog, when will you start bulk producing some of these toys?

[warbeak2099]

Holy shnikeys, I thought some of those bursts were single shots lol. That is fast as balls!

[Maghog]

Okay, I have to say that the design that ManInBlack intrigued me quite a bit, enough to make the piece that you see at the end of the video there. I am going to send it to him for him to do some testing to see if it works. I have a few pieces of steel I want to put in there first.
If ManInBlack decides he wants to offer these triggers as a product, that's up to him....it's his design.
If AO seriously wants me to make a batch of this design, I would only do it in collaboration with ManInBlack.

If at any point this thread becomes a matter of whether it's sales pitch or not and needs to be shut down or moved, please feel free to modify as is warranted.

Question is,
what does AO want?

5 ?
10?
50?

My guess is that the price for such a trigger will stay under $100.



Dan

[TwilightG]

MIB,

Using that trigger design, is it possible to easily fire a single shot? Or do you have to be really careful not to unload your hopper? :D


I'm currently dabbling with pneumags but might consider purchasing a trigger like this, esp. since I suck at walking the trigger. :rolleyes:
One of my big concerns would be having control over the trigger or some form of adjustability. I'd hate to have to put my Mag away because a field may not like the excessive display of RT-ness (and swapping triggers on the fly is no easy task)

[ManInBlack]

I'm definitely interested in working with MagHog on this. Once he's done testing his metals and sends it to me for more testing here we'll see about making a run of them. Kinda depends on how many people might want them.

Oh, and I can think of a simple mod I can make to the design to make this trigger act like a normal trigger would, so no issues there.

Speed of firing can be best modified by input pressure, so if you have an adjustable tank you should be able to control how fast you shoot.

[Heiliger Bimbam]

A Sear with a small RC-car damper could work, too.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3198/2885851660_c6ba27dd50_o.jpg

[snoopay700]

Holy shnikeys, I thought some of those bursts were single shots lol. That is fast as balls!
Yeah, same here, i was wondering what was up.

[xero28]

One of my big concerns would be having control over the trigger or some form of adjustability. I'd hate to have to put my Mag away because a field may not like the excessive display of RT-ness (and swapping triggers on the fly is no easy task)

First off, simply amazing. I've got a small bar of aluminum in my garage I was going to hack up into a trigger similar to a UMF style, but I think I'm gonna have to try one of these too. Of course I'll have to wait to get an RT valve first. :) It's in the works. Can anyone tell me where I might be able to find some "spring" metal like that without having to buy a 10' saw blade or go rummaging through MIB's dad's back yard?

As far as turning it into a one pull/one shot trigger, I suppose you could put another stop higher up on the trigger near the top of the "spring" metal that could be tightened down if and when you get to a field that doesn't want you peppering someone with 20 balls in a second :D

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1732/triggerkf0.jpg

Which also brings me to my dumb question of the day. Will this get you kicked off of most fields? Could you argue that it is purely mechanical? Again, I don't really care, I'm definitely making one. I don't usually play at regulated fields, mainly woodsball, so most of the guys I play with are already shooting with their full autos turned on. It'll be so sweet to show them what a real gun can do (with a little help of course).

[skipdogg]

Okay, I have to say that the design that ManInBlack intrigued me quite a bit, enough to make the piece that you see at the end of the video there. I am going to send it to him for him to do some testing to see if it works. I have a few pieces of steel I want to put in there first.
If ManInBlack decides he wants to offer these triggers as a product, that's up to him....it's his design.
If AO seriously wants me to make a batch of this design, I would only do it in collaboration with ManInBlack.

If at any point this thread becomes a matter of whether it's sales pitch or not and needs to be shut down or moved, please feel free to modify as is warranted.

Question is,
what does AO want?

5 ?
10?
50?

My guess is that the price for such a trigger will stay under $100.



Dan


Yes please. Me want one.

[Papa_Smurf]

Yes please. Me want one.
I'll hop in line too.

[snoopay700]

If it's cheaper than a viper pro i might, just because this is more of a show thing than an actual application, where as the viper pro is an improved legal trigger.

[ManInBlack]

First off, simply amazing. I've got a small bar of aluminum in my garage I was going to hack up into a trigger similar to a UMF style, but I think I'm gonna have to try one of these too. Of course I'll have to wait to get an RT valve first. :) It's in the works. Can anyone tell me where I might be able to find some "spring" metal like that without having to buy a 10' saw blade or go rummaging through MIB's dad's back yard?

As far as turning it into a one pull/one shot trigger, I suppose you could put another stop higher up on the trigger near the top of the "spring" metal that could be tightened down if and when you get to a field that doesn't want you peppering someone with 20 balls in a second :D

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/752/triggermw2.jpg

Which also brings me to my dumb question of the day. Will this get you kicked off of most fields? Could you argue that it is purely mechanical? Again, I don't really care, I'm definitely making one. I don't usually play at regulated fields, mainly woodsball, so most of the guys I play with are already shooting with their full autos turned on. It'll be so sweet to show them what a real gun can do (with a little help of course).

This is exactly what I was thinking to make it a one pull one shot deal.

[k.rollin]

I'd like to try something similar to MIB's design, but with a single finger trigger and frame. Thing is, would the shortened length make this mod less useful, or entirely useless?

[ManInBlack]

You'd have to play with how "bendy" the spring steel piece is. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it could be much more difficult than a double finger size trigger.

[snoopay700]

Yeah, the longer the steel piece is the easier it is to dial it in to bounce.

[Sumthinwicked]

i like single frame rollin keep me updated if it works

[ManInBlack]

I'll give it a try.

[ThePixelGuru]

Oh man, my R/T might need one of these.

Definitely interested if you guys do a run of them.

[AGDlover]

I'd build a mag for that trigger :ninja:

[warbeak2099]

I'd build a mag for that trigger :ninja:

Agreed.

[Empyreal Rogue]

If the trigger was a true blade design, yeah I'd buy one.

[ManInBlack]

Well, if anyone's interested I did some testing this afternoon to see just how fast the gun shoots with this trigger. I have the sounds files in the video below. Here are the screenshots:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/850psi.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/1000psi.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/1200psi.jpg

At 1200psi it was difficult to see from the graph where all of the shots were occurring, but I zoomed in and think I got it pretty correct. I may have to see if I can play with the recorder settings to get a better graph later. This thing sounds evil shooting that fast.

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i121.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/CrashInBlack/Paintball/triggertesting.flv">

[Maghog]

Beautiful.
Sounds like the old days.
Dan

[snoopay700]

I dunno, i couldn't see the gun in that vid, i'm calling shens. ;)

[Ruler_Mark]

If you could make this into a single trigger that fit into a carbon frame. I would want one.

[ManInBlack]

I started working on one of those but need a bit more time to get it working the way I want.

[Dirge]

Love the idea. I'm in.

[TwilightG]

:bounce: found this in my list of subscriptions...

Anything new?

[ManInBlack]

No major progress on my end. Found it's VERY difficult to get a single trigger version working.

[Maghog]

I have two blanks sitting and waiting to be messed with if anyone is interested in putting their own spring steel in and trying it out. I hadn't heard from MIB in a long time so I figured he was still testing things out. I don't have any equipment to test stuff over here so there's not much else I can do.
Still a neat idea.
Dan

[ManInBlack]

Yeah, I got a new job with REALLY long hours so that's the holdup on my end...