Is DLX Technology Group really just Smart Parts?

[Hexis]

Some evidence:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=cv940t.6.17

The Trademark for "LUXE" is registered to:
(APPLICANT) Smart Parts, Inc. CORPORATION PENNSYLVANIA 100 Station Street Latrobe PENNSYLVANIA 15661

Domain contact info:

Domain Name: LUXEPAINTBALL.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Trent, Darryl dtrent@luxepaintball.com
Luxe Paintball
DLX Technology Group
100 Station Street
Loyalhanna, PA 15661
US
7245324311

Domain Name: SMARTPARTS.COM
Administrative Contact:
Mowry, Valetta vmowry@smartparts.com
Smart Parts Inc
PO Box 3200
Latrobe, PA 15650
US
724-539-2660 fax: 724-539-5555

Technical Contact:
Buyan, Steve sbuyan@smartparts.com
Smart Parts
100 Station Street
Loyalhanna, PA 15661
US
724-532-4649

Domain Name: DLXTECHNOLOGYGROUP.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Trent, Darryl dtrent@luxepaintball.com
Luxe Paintball
DLX Technology Group
100 Station Street
Loyalhanna, PA 15661
US
7245324311

All of the real addresses are the same. The listed address in the Smart Parts corporate listing with the state of PA:
1203 SPRING STREET
LATROBE PA 15650-919
http://www.corporations.state.pa.us/corp/soskb/Corp.asp?828737


There is no DLX Technology listed in the PA corporation system:
http://www.corporations.state.pa.us/corp/soskb/csearch.asp
It's possible DLX is setup as a partnership or some non corporate format.

There is
DLX ELECTRONICS, INC. (1st filing is in 1977)
http://www.corporations.state.pa.us/corp/soskb/Filings.asp?429484

DLX ENTERPRISES, INC. (1st filing is in 1995)
http://www.corporations.state.pa.us/corp/soskb/Filings.asp?1576088

[insixdays777]

AWESOME! :hail:

Lets pull all the forum post from the net...where they say they are not the same company! Sorry I would but I am still at work!

this rules! THANKS!!!!!

[pmstc]

I thought that it was common knowledge that they were? Are they denying it? :confused:

[questionful]

How did it first come up that SP was associated with DLX? And what's the difference between Luxe and DLX? Is luxe JUST the name of the gun, because the website is "luxe paintball", typical of a brand.

[insixdays777]

Yeah they are denying it...I am looking for post right now...but easy point to make.

PBN has a seperate DLX forum thread - NOT a subforum like all the other companies. I.E.

The Dye Thread is also the Proto forum with a subforum clearly notes PROTO..because they are the same company.

Why the speical treatment for Smartparts? Looks like the exact same situation as Dye and Proto?

And this is the point...just more dishonesty...they are trying to make the consumers belive SmartParts and DLX are two seperate companies....

[Ruler_Mark]

Yeah they are denying it...I am looking for post right now...but easy point to make.

PBN has a seperate DLX forum thread - NOT a subforum like all the other companies. I.E.

The Dye Thread is also the Proto forum with a subforum clearly notes PROTO..because they are the same company.

Why the speical treatment for Smartparts? Looks like the exact same situation as Dye and Proto?

And this is the point...just more dishonesty...they are trying to make the consumers belive SmartParts and DLX are two seperate companies....


sp cuts checks.

[Hexis]

From what I'm reading they are trying to claim a separation. DLX Technology Group is supposed to be a completely new company, that created, manufacture and support the LUXE gun model.

On the surface similar to the DYE Proto setup, except Proto has never claimed to not be a part of DYE.

I just see it as more "we can do whatever we want" attitude from Smart Parts.

[robnix]

Yeah they are denying it...I am looking for post right now...but easy point to make.

PBN has a seperate DLX forum thread - NOT a subforum like all the other companies. I.E.

The Dye Thread is also the Proto forum with a subforum clearly notes PROTO..because they are the same company.

Why the speical treatment for Smartparts? Looks like the exact same situation as Dye and Proto?

And this is the point...just more dishonesty...they are trying to make the consumers belive SmartParts and DLX are two seperate companies....

It's in the DLX Sticky:

Q: Is this a Smart Parts marker?
Q: Did DLX buy this gun from SP?
Q: What's the connection between DLX and SP?
A: Luxes were designed and are manufactured by the expert manufacturing facilities at Smart Parts, but the marker is assembled, supported, and sold by the separate company called DLX Technologies. DLX Technologies is NOT a subsidiary of Smart Parts - it's a completely separate company.

[insixdays777]

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/dead-zone/45629-dlx-audrey-liar-she-s-also-infringing-my-copyright-3.html


Seans MCB post:

"I do not even know why I am backing DLX.. screw them. I am done posting on forums. You all have a good life.
__________________
-------------------------
Sean Scott
Smart Parts, INC
Sales Representative
Scenario Coordinator
sscott@smartparts.com "


Ummm.....forceful words about "another company"....spend 2 days doing coverup and PR damage control for ANOTHER? Company and then..."screw them" HAHAHA....

I would get fired from my job if I spent 2 days working for another company.....

[DevilMan]

I see it more as a way to shift the bad taste that alot of folks have for SP by starting a new company. Kind of like SP filing bankruptcy... then seeing the company DLX pop up on the radar with the same gear. Thing is, SP has tooooo much stuff out there to simply do that.

Sooooo if they maintain their stores and parts but start phasing out the markers and basically this year SP has 10 markers, DLX has 3... Next year SP has 7 models and DLX has 6, then SP has 3 and DLX has 10.... they can slowly push the stigma over out off of SP products and everyone will LOVE DLX stuff and SP will still rake in the $$$$.

Plus it's a pretty well known fact that any company starting out LOSES money for at least 1 year. Some more. If done right SP can write the loss from their DLX line off as a loss of funds so that come tax season they keep more in pocket....

I'm sure there are multiple other reasons.... but hey...

What do I know???

DM

[temps]

DLX is to Smartparts is like Invert is to Kee.. same thing.. whats the big story here?? :confused:

[lather]

Seans MCB post:

"I do not even know why I am backing DLX.. screw them. I am done posting on forums. You all have a good life.
__________________
-------------------------
Sean Scott
Smart Parts, INC
Sales Representative
Scenario Coordinator
sscott@smartparts.com "


Ummm.....forceful words about "another company"....spend 2 days doing coverup and PR damage control for ANOTHER? Company and then..."screw them" HAHAHA....

I would get fired from my job if I spent 2 days working for another company.....

Good point--why did Sean so vehemently defend a supposedly seperate company?

[Hexis]

DLX is to Smartparts is like Invert is to Kee.. same thing.. whats the big story here?? :confused:


Why do the claim otherwise?

[robnix]

Some evidence:

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=cv940t.6.17

The Trademark for "LUXE" is registered to:
(APPLICANT) Smart Parts, Inc. CORPORATION PENNSYLVANIA 100 Station Street Latrobe PENNSYLVANIA 15661

Domain contact info:

Domain Name: LUXEPAINTBALL.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Trent, Darryl dtrent@luxepaintball.com
Luxe Paintball
DLX Technology Group
100 Station Street
Loyalhanna, PA 15661
US
7245324311

Domain Name: SMARTPARTS.COM
Administrative Contact:
Mowry, Valetta vmowry@smartparts.com
Smart Parts Inc
PO Box 3200
Latrobe, PA 15650
US
724-539-2660 fax: 724-539-5555

Technical Contact:
Buyan, Steve sbuyan@smartparts.com
Smart Parts
100 Station Street
Loyalhanna, PA 15661
US
724-532-4649

Domain Name: DLXTECHNOLOGYGROUP.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Trent, Darryl dtrent@luxepaintball.com
Luxe Paintball
DLX Technology Group
100 Station Street
Loyalhanna, PA 15661
US
7245324311

All of the real addresses are the same. The listed address in the Smart Parts corporate listing with the state of PA:
1203 SPRING STREET
LATROBE PA 15650-919
http://www.corporations.state.pa.us/corp/soskb/Corp.asp?828737


There is no DLX Technology listed in the PA corporation system:
http://www.corporations.state.pa.us/corp/soskb/csearch.asp
It's possible DLX is setup as a partnership or some non corporate format.

There is
DLX ELECTRONICS, INC. (1st filing is in 1977)
http://www.corporations.state.pa.us/corp/soskb/Filings.asp?429484

DLX ENTERPRISES, INC. (1st filing is in 1995)
http://www.corporations.state.pa.us/corp/soskb/Filings.asp?1576088

And they're on the same server:

Name: smartparts.com
Address: 38.100.175.220
wsnew.sp.cm3consulting.com
Name: LUXEPAINTBALL.COM
Address: 38.100.175.223
www.cm3consulting.com

[temps]

Why do the claim otherwise?

They claim they are separate companies.. Which they probably are legally speaking.

[pmstc]

Why do the claim otherwise?
Probably to avoid the reputation that SP has gained over the years?

[Chronobreak]

whats the big deal

when i brought this up about rogue who was basicly using tms as a front and acting as if that was some other new company everyone basicly said shut up, its no big deal

:tard:

go SP, i know its sp but come on guys

[behemoth]

whats the big deal

when i brought this up about rogue who was basicly using tms as a front and acting as if that was some other new company everyone basicly said shut up, its no big deal

:tard:

go SP, i know its sp but come on guys

Everyone said shut up its not a big deal? You mean AO as a whole, or Mods, or Rouge?

He whined about **** and lies all the time. He was just as bad as the whole SP thing..

[Chronobreak]

that was the generaly consensus, though not everyone said that, a few people saw through the lies.

but most defended him.

[ThePixelGuru]

that was the generaly consensus, though not everyone said that, a few people saw through the lies.

but most defended him.
To be fair, Rogue didn't steal a picture and create a fake identity to do that, and he neglected to confirm or deny his affiliation with those sites. No stealing, no lying. I'm no fan of Rogue, but it's hardly the same.

[insixdays777]

Back to the topic......anyone wanta call SP and see if you can con one of them to "inner office" transfer the call to DLX rep? I bet they all have 2 phones on their desk... rings one SP and one rings DLX!

[Lohman446]

Its probably complex.

Does GM own Chevy? No doubt... in fact aside from a few body pieces most of the full-size trucks are fully interchangeable.

But it can get trickier

Does Ford own Mazda? Ford owns a controlling interest of Mazda and shares a lot of technology, however it is not 100% owned.

So: Does SP own DLX?

There is very little doubt there is collaboration between the two. However, unless one is a publically traded company it is highly unlikely you will ever sort out how deep it goes.

[insixdays777]

The issue again is not really who OWNs who or who IS who they say they are...

It all come down to ethics, honesty and truth. Its a HONESTY issue...all these facts are just means to an end of tragic DISHONESTY to all paintball players.

Its more than semantics...its about telling your customers one thing and the reality is completely different.

Go to those car MFG sites...they dont deny the reality of thier relationships nor go to great lenghts to make sure the customer never knows that the GMC Sierra is the same truck as the Chevy Silverado....

[insixdays777]

PBN post from SP/DLX about all the drama...

"My name is Rebecca Gamble and I also work as the customer service representative for Smart Parts, Inc. “With Rebecca’s track history and experience, I knew what Rebecca was capable of doing, and I wanted only the best person to fulfill the job of Audrey” –Darryl Trent of DLX Technology. Darryl and I have worked together for nearly 4 years. Darryl actually was the one who hired me when I first started for Smart Parts, Inc. back in 2005. My job titles have added up over the last 4 years and Darryl has come to use me as his right hand man (but, yes, I am a woman.) Darryl trusted me with assisting him with daily activities which mostly included customer service support. When Darryl moved to DLX Technology at the beginning of 2008, he asked me to do him a favor and become his customer service representative for DLX Technology. The fact that I love working with the public and enjoy the paintball community, I vowed help him in anyway that I could. So, thus, Darryl and I created the persona of Audrey. Audrey was to answer the members of PBnation.com and serve as an initial contact. Audrey will still continue her duty as the customer service representative and I will still being playing the role of Audrey. We value everyone’s opinion and have even taken into consideration player’s ideas about colors and features. This is exactly what I am here for; to answer PM’s, discuss possible color options, update members on the features, answer technical questions and offer any additional support.

Why did we choose to separate the two characters, you ask? It was just a way to make the separation between Rebecca of Smart Parts, Inc. and Audrey of DLX Technology. We also needed to create the account for when the position of Audrey is replaced with another female in the future. This makes it easier for me to differentiate the logistics of my job duties. Trust me; I answer about 200 e-mails daily, having one account would only make it more difficult for me. Plus, when Darryl does find someone that is as capable of being the face of Audrey for DLX Technology, the name will stay the same. To be honest, no one really uses their real name on on-line forums, and this situation is no different."


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA......read it....ANOTHER SP FULL TIME EMPLOYEE WORKING FOR THE "OTHER" Company DLX....must be nice getting two paychecks!

[Ratt]

Here is an interesting thought: Has either "Siegfreid or Roy" (the Gardner Bros.) made any statement about this episode? To my knowledge, neither have had anything to say (publicly, at least) about this fiasco. Hmm...interesting.... :rolleyes:

[punkncat]

snip

[ThePixelGuru]

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://silvexis.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/no-drama.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGm6sPQBlP9c04HNlabdsqD7CyF0Q
Eh, if they didn't want drama they shouldn't have stolen someone else's IP for the purpose of misleading their customers. What goes around comes around; I have no sympathy for them.

Of course, they were also doing this to hide the fact that DLX and SP are not as separate as they'd like to pretend. They brought this all down on themselves.

[insixdays777]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2766709&page=9

All post are by Smartpart’s Rebecca AKA Audrey Made on PBN…

“And we believe the person that posted that thread, because? What if he was lying also. I never got an e-mail or a phone call from him, either way. All I saw was the thread that was created. I don't sell any LUXE's so I don't need to lie to make a sale. And I did come clean about it because it really started to bother people that I said it was me. I don't want to be viewed as a lier at all. It just got out of hand how much I was trying to personify the character, Audrey. You had beef with me from a long time ago because you thought I was lying about caring so much about because a customer service rep for Smart Parts. As you can probably tell now, I really do like what I do. I am even doing it for free and even off the clock for Smart Parts.”

“I am sorry for not responding so quickly. Typically, I work from 9 to 5. I did have to take a gift to my nephew today for his birthday. I tried to skip out on it to keep up on this drama, but he wanted to set off fire works, so I really couldn't break his heart. Of course, I will answer though, as it is 9 oclock and I am again on PBNation.com. I can't be on here 24/ 7, sorry.”

“No, I didn't HAVE to do it, but I did. It really shouldn't be that big of a deal. I was just trying to act the part and the picture helped do that for me. There is a separation between DLX and Smart Parts; they are run very differently and they are not the same company. Of course I would want to make the distinction between the two. It was hard, as you can tell, because I work for Smart Parts and help Darryl with DLX CSR stuff.”

Just a Sample of Audrey post times:

07-15-2008, 02:12 PM
Replies: 1
Sd
Views: 75
Posted By DLX Audrey

07-15-2008, 02:10 PM
Replies: 2
LUXE at NPPL Buffalo
Views: 227
Posted By DLX Audrey
07-15-2008, 01:33 PM
Replies: 79
LUX market predictions
Views: 1,936
Posted By DLX Audrey

07-15-2008, 01:33 PM
Replies: 79
LUX market predictions
Views: 1,936
Posted By DLX Audrey

05-23-2008, 02:52 PM
Replies: 160
Welcome to DLX Technology
Views: 8,127
Posted By DLX Audrey

04-22-2008, 03:39 PM
Replies: 160
Welcome to DLX Technology
Views: 8,127
Posted By DLX Audrey

04-18-2008, 02:16 PM
Replies: 74
Ok, does this seriously need its own forum?
Views: 2,565
Posted By DLX Audrey

04-16-2008, 02:44 PM
Replies: 160
Welcome to DLX Technology
Views: 8,127
Posted By DLX Audrey

04-11-2008, 04:03 PM
Replies: 85
DLX Authorized Dealers
Views: 5,388
Posted By DLX Audrey


HAHAHAHAHA.... Post times clearly show that she was doing DLX Rep work during her “SP Business hours”…how can this be? Does not look like she was working off the SP clock to me…? IS EVERYTHING THESE PEOPLE SAY A LIE????

[Lohman446]

Let me ask you this.

Someone comes to me with an idea for a business that I can provide parts for. They are short on capital but make a great pitch and I have faith in them.

I lend them $$ to start the business of it and provide all parts at a profit to them.

I have a vested interest in them succeeding, even if I do not directly own them.

I am going to "lend" them expertise, and even staffing if need be for the short term to make certain there is return on my investment.

Doesn't happen in business right? Wrong... I can tell you for certain it does.

SP is not a giant (at least in the scheme of a business model), and a lot of what they do is likely based on some odd small scale business models.

[insixdays777]

Let me ask you this.

Someone comes to me with an idea for a business that I can provide parts for. They are short on capital but make a great pitch and I have faith in them.

I lend them $$ to start the business of it and provide all parts at a profit to them.

I have a vested interest in them succeeding, even if I do not directly own them.

I am going to "lend" them expertise, and even staffing if need be for the short term to make certain there is return on my investment.

Doesn't happen in business right? Wrong... I can tell you for certain it does.

SP is not a giant (at least in the scheme of a business model), and a lot of what they do is likely based on some odd small scale business models.

Sure I agree with you...all that could be....but the question is WHY cont. to LIE about it all...Same building, address and employees....why not just be honest and tell the consumer the real deal...come clean...why continue to LIE....we all know SP and DLX are the same company...the issue is that they LIE about it and want us to believe other wise....

[BigEvil]

If Smart Parts wants to even pretend to be in the process of 'repairing' their image, then crap like this debacle needs to be avoided at all cost. This just goes to show that not only are they still basically a mom and pop company, but they are not the maniacal geniuses that they think they are.

It would also seem, well to me anyhow, that they lower themselves to their audience. At some point they have to realize that there is an entire segment of the paintball market that despises them and would never purchase their products. (if they havent already)

All of this makes me wonder where Smart Parts would be right now if they had not obtained the electro patent.




http://www.bigevilonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5&d=1216307948

[ThePixelGuru]

Let me ask you this.

Someone comes to me with an idea for a business that I can provide parts for. They are short on capital but make a great pitch and I have faith in them.

I lend them $$ to start the business of it and provide all parts at a profit to them.

I have a vested interest in them succeeding, even if I do not directly own them.

I am going to "lend" them expertise, and even staffing if need be for the short term to make certain there is return on my investment.

Doesn't happen in business right? Wrong... I can tell you for certain it does.

SP is not a giant (at least in the scheme of a business model), and a lot of what they do is likely based on some odd small scale business models.
None of that's a problem - I think what people had a problem with is the fact that they stated in no uncertain terms that this wasn't the case. There never would have been a problem if they didn't lie about it. DLX wanted to distance themselves from Smart Parts, so they lied. Guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree after all.

[Lohman446]

DLX / SP needs to figure out how to control information better. They need to either decide they control the flow of information by stating "these are executive concerns and decisions that are only discussed on a management basis" or just state how it is. I will agree that trying to muddy the waters is simply not working for them.

[wyn1370]

here's another little tid bit of drama to add to the pot
Anybody else notice that she posted that the owner of the picture should have contacted them directly about the miss use of the image? Who's to say they didn't, SP is just trying to make it look like they where unfairly put in front of the firing squad. Now the fact that the owner of the image made the issue public is one reason that there was a public apology. But I also think there was some pressure other than the photographer and forum members that caused them to issue the statement, and they would not have done so otherwise. They act as if they felt obligated to do so, that's a load of cow poo.
They go on and on about how it was the actions of an individual. It took them the entire day to work up the public statement and come to the conclusion that they could pin it on a single employee and act as if the powers that control SP had nothing to do with it. This is also a load of crap. It was all a marketing ploy, it was intended to be they just where too stupid to execute it intelligently. But the "Truth" that they have issued is as fabricated as "Audrey". Who wouldn't throw a sacrificial lamb to the wolves to try and save face. I actually feel sorry for Rebecca for being that scapegoat, she does get my sympathy for that. But again who says it her that is actually posting up the responses in the apology thread. It could be any SP employee or even one of the brothers trying to make a good sob story.

anyway I'm done with this mess now. I'm happy they got called on it. I also know they(SP/DLX) did not apologize because they felt obligated to. They where forced to by more than one party.

[Hexis]

I like how She is trying to insert doubt about the photographer's post. I personally got email from him and I'm quite confident that he's the real guy.

True, the formal process is a DMCA takedown notice. I liked his approach way way better.

[pmstc]

I don't know if this helps with your investigation, but some Dynasty players (Dynasty has a pretty big contract with SP to shoot shockers) have been shooting Luxes recently. I don't see how they could get away with that if DLX was not owned by SP.

[manike]

I like how She is trying to insert doubt about the photographer's post. I personally got email from him and I'm quite confident that he's the real guy.

True, the formal process is a DMCA takedown notice. I liked his approach way way better.

He is the real guy. I verified the account details and information to check it wasn't a hoax.

[snoopay700]

I don't know if this helps with your investigation, but some Dynasty players (Dynasty has a pretty big contract with SP to shoot shockers) have been shooting Luxes recently. I don't see how they could get away with that if DLX was not owned by SP.
That seems like some concrete evidence right there.

And yeah, the guy is legit, i'm one of the people that alerted him and he linked me to his thread on PBN.

[wyn1370]

I don't know if this helps with your investigation, but some Dynasty players (Dynasty has a pretty big contract with SP to shoot shockers) have been shooting Luxes recently. I don't see how they could get away with that if DLX was not owned by SP.
DLX may not be owned by SP, but it is controlled by a common interest (probably Gardners). The only seperation of DLX and SP is the one they tell the public about. They share everything manufacturing, employees, offices, fake CS screen names. If they are going to go and lie about something as stupid as a fake CS rep, there is no reason to believe anything else they say.

[teufelhunden]

Sure I agree with you...all that could be....but the question is WHY cont. to LIE about it all...Same building, address and employees....why not just be honest and tell the consumer the real deal...come clean...why continue to LIE....we all know SP and DLX are the same company...the issue is that they LIE about it and want us to believe other wise....


Because you have no right to know, no reason to care past the point that you understand there is some level of affiliation, whatever it is. Buy the gun or don't, SP isn't going to care about your non-sale or all of AO's non-sale. The margin on the Luxe is likely huge because everything on it seems to be a tweak of something that's been used for years, so they're certainly not losing money by you not buying one.

[punkncat]

Posted this on the nation


I am going to wade in a bit here.

In the world of advertizing people get PAID to be representative of a company. If their voice is used they are compensated, if their picture/image/likeness is used they get paid for it.

You went on and STOLE this identity without permission. Used her as a false front for a personna that does not truly exist to lead on a bunch of (generally male) customers, topping it off with the I am single and flirty comments, etc. ALL in a purposeful effort " to try to fool...members of PBNation ".

You can claim otherwise all you want, but there is no question what your intent was. Otherwise why would you have done it?

Personally I would sue the crap out of your for doing what you did to an image of my wife without permission or compensation for such use as the face of your representative.
How do you think this lady would have felt walking down the street and having some kid that recognizes "her" from the avatar and statements you have been making and walks up and makes some offhanded comment. You could only imagine the possible outcomes for all involved.

The ONLY reason that you come out with this apology at all was simply because someone was smart enough to question and catch you in your lie. Otherwise it would still be going on, just like before.
I don't know if the whole responsibility falls on you, as you state, but whoever came up with this half baked idea lacks a great deal of judgement, ethics and I darn sure would not have them working for or representing me.....oh wait, it is the Gardners...nvrmnd


Have to say that after reading through this bothers me a bit more than I first thought.

[insixdays777]

Because you have no right to know, no reason to care past the point that you understand there is some level of affiliation, whatever it is. Buy the gun or don't, SP isn't going to care about your non-sale or all of AO's non-sale. The margin on the Luxe is likely huge because everything on it seems to be a tweak of something that's been used for years, so they're certainly not losing money by you not buying one.

Still not seeing the point...I agree I dont have the right to know...I would be OK with that answer from SP, BUT they chose to LIE and purposeful state SP and DLX is NOT the same company. This would not be an issue AT all if from the start SP simply said:

"Guys, DLX is our high end gun line. " or even "Guys, we arnt going to comment one way or the other about SP and DLX's releationship Please come to your own conclusions."

Not one those things did smartparts do or say. Instead They CHOSE to LIE to everyone about DLX and SP releationship...the stated DLX is a seperate and different company....

IT IS NOT ABOUT AUDREY OR REBECCA IS NOT ABOUT DLX = SmartParts....ITS A HONESTY ISSUE!

[teufelhunden]

Still not seeing the point...I agree I dont have the right to know...I would be OK with that answer from SP, BUT they chose to LIE and purposeful state SP and DLX is NOT the same company. This would not be an issue AT all if from the start SP simply said:

"Guys, DLX is our high end gun line. " or even "Guys, we arnt going to comment one way or the other about SP and DLX's releationship Please come to your own conclusions."

Not one those things did smartparts do or say. Instead They CHOSE to LIE to everyone about DLX and SP releationship...the stated DLX is a seperate and different company....

IT IS NOT ABOUT AUDREY OR REBECCA IS NOT ABOUT DLX = SmartParts....ITS A HONESTY ISSUE!


It likely is a different company; if it was me, it'd be an LLC, and if the ownership structure was to be the same as SP, I'd consider disregarding it for tax purposes. Depends on if SP is a C or S corp. Should be an S corp, but then again, it probably shouldn't be a corp at all. Regardless -- DLX most likely is, in official, technical, and real senses, a different company. Different legal agreements, EINs, etc. So they're not lying when they say that it is a different company. Separate, you really can't figure out unless you take a close look at everything (internet close looks aren't that close and don't count), and the meaning of the word could be taken as so many different things you can't really claim SP lied about it. You may define separate as sharing zero resources, SP may define separate as having separate financials and monetary structure (different bank accounts, for instance).

Hell, in my line of work you could run DLX and SP out of the same building and I'd never know unless you told me (and if I never put any thought towards it aside from what was _required_ for the job) -- that satisfies my definition of separate.

[robnix]

It likely is a different company; if it was me, it'd be an LLC, and if the ownership structure was to be the same as SP, I'd consider disregarding it for tax purposes. Depends on if SP is a C or S corp. Should be an S corp, but then again, it probably shouldn't be a corp at all. Regardless -- DLX most likely is, in official, technical, and real senses, a different company. Different legal agreements, EINs, etc. So they're not lying when they say that it is a different company. Separate, you really can't figure out unless you take a close look at everything (internet close looks aren't that close and don't count), and the meaning of the word could be taken as so many different things you can't really claim SP lied about it. You may define separate as sharing zero resources, SP may define separate as having separate financials and monetary structure (different bank accounts, for instance).

Hell, in my line of work you could run DLX and SP out of the same building and I'd never know unless you told me (and if I never put any thought towards it aside from what was _required_ for the job) -- that satisfies my definition of separate.
A company that I used to work for did real estate development, different projects were setup as their own LLC. Everything involved with each LLC was registered in the name of that LLC including domain names, trademarks, etc... specifically so any possible lawsuits didn't have an effect on other projects. We did run everything out of the same office though.

Now, IANAL, and I may have no clue what I'm talking about, but those were there the reasons I was given by ownership.

This doesn't seem to be the case with DLX, there's no DBA in the State of PA for them, and all the IP that I've seen like trademarks, domain names, even the webhosting etc... is owned and paid for by SP with their name on it. With no DBA in PA, they're not allowed to enter into any contracts using that name either.

[insixdays777]

What is the meaning of "is" is the question?....

semantics...NO excuse. SP comminicutates in a non-business law relm of paintball players. lay-man terms, normal adverage joe terms.

When you say:

"DLX Technologies is NOT a subsidiary of Smart Parts - it's a completely separate company."

That is what you mean.

What does "a completely separate company" mean to us adverage joes?

1) Not the same building/mailing address ect...
2) Not the same IP
3) Not the same servers
4) Not the same employees.
5) Not the same professional sponsered team.

I could go on but you get my point....

[teufelhunden]

A company that I used to work for did real estate development, different projects were setup as their own LLC. Everything involved with each LLC was registered in the name of that LLC including domain names, trademarks, etc... specifically so any possible lawsuits didn't have an effect on other projects. We did run everything out of the same office though.

Now, IANAL, and I may have no clue what I'm talking about, but those were there the reasons I was given by ownership.

This doesn't seem to be the case with DLX, there's no DBA in the State of PA for them, and all the IP that I've seen like trademarks, domain names, even the webhosting etc... is owned and paid for by SP with their name on it. With no DBA in PA, they're not allowed to enter into any contracts using that name either.

We'll have to see what happens. The DLX site doesn't have any of the usual footers, things like Copyright Smart Parts Inc. or Copyright DLX Technologies, LLC... whatever it would be, so we can't get any insight there. Then again, all we could do is speculate anyway, because SP wouldn't (and is not obligated to) answer any questions of this nature. I would presume that the Gardners have at least some level of understanding of what they need to do to start a new venture given that they are both attorneys by trade.



What is the meaning of "is" is the question?....

semantics...NO excuse. SP comminicutates in a non-business law relm of paintball players. lay-man terms, normal adverage joe terms.

When you say:

"DLX Technologies is NOT a subsidiary of Smart Parts - it's a completely separate company."

That is what you mean.


Uh, DLX may very well not be a sub of SP. It could be a "completely separate company" and have common ownership. A subsidiary is when Company A owns a majority interest in Company B; then Company A is the parent and company B is the sub.

It's not really a b-law issue, and it's not SP's problem if you do or do not understand what may be going on or have the education to know what it means. They are using normal, adverage [sic] joe terms-- but the same way "fair" is up for debate and interpretation, so may be "separate" -- or a slew of other words that you likely use on a daily basis.



Edit: I just looked at your profile, you work in insurance? Unless you're cleaning the floors or in your first week you are extremely well versed in double-speak and the like. How is this new to you?

[Lohman446]

I receive one paycheck and do work for three legally seperate corporations. Its not uncommon for me to act as a rep for a fourth international corporation during that time.

[robnix]

I would presume that the Gardners have at least some level of understanding of what they need to do to start a new venture given that they are both attorneys by trade.

Considering they were involved in a patent fraud lawsuit, even if they know the law I doubt they have any regard for it when it doesn't suit their purposes.

[insixdays777]

Edit: I just looked at your profile, you work in insurance? Unless you're cleaning the floors or in your first week you are extremely well versed in double-speak and the like. How is this new to you?[/QUOTE]

Its not new to me at all...again you are missing my point. I understand exactly what you are saying on the technical side of this issue. But see my last post please read it again, you missed the entire point.

Again SP audiance is Paintball players not business students.

[teufelhunden]

Its not new to me at all...again you are missing my point. I understand exactly what you are saying on the technical side of this issue. But see my last post please read it again, you missed the entire point.

Again SP audiance is Paintball players not business students.


I understand that. However, not everything can be put to the lowest common denominator especially when talking about something that can have so many layers of complexity. Saying "it's not a sub it's a separate firm" may very well be as low as they can take it for people without getting into details.

That said, it's pretty well understood in life that there will be things in life that plenty of people can't handle on their own. That's why professionals exist -- when you're sued/accused of a crime, you get a lawyer to represent yourself... except for the lowest level, like small claims (when, of course, you may choose to get a lawyer). You get an accountant for your taxes... except for the most basic returns, when you may still choose to hire an accountant. You get a doctor for your health... except when you skin your knee, but you may still choose to see a doctor. Same thing here.

When discussing a matter that is within a field that professionals exist in, it is expected that there may be topics that are beyond the grasp of many/most. Obviously, this applies to business ownership.

[Ninjeff]

i actually feel bad for rebecca. Chances are good that she didnt REALLY know what she was getting into. By that i mean, to the un experienced i doubt she could have known she was in for such a........beating.

It looks to me like her "boss" came up with the idea of creating a seperate "personality" that could be identified with the DLX brand, sort of a "james bond" cool deal. Whith the british accent, talk about tech, and looks and what-not. She was told to run with it, and did. Regardless, she did appologize, and has been taking through fire and brimstone because of it. Regarless of anything else, i really do think SHE meant it as a harmless thing. Now, whetehr her bosses thought the same.....well.....

Still, i cant imagine how angry the photographer was when he found out. Apparently the pic was of his WIFE. Jeez, id be right wizzed off. Imagine if some pbn fan boy recognized her outside in the "real world"! That lady would be in for quit the suprise.

[Hexis]

Before her explanation I was kind of figuring it was the way it appears: a CSR doing something foolish. It's the dishonesty of the whole deal that irks me. All of these half true (if at all) statements. I just don't get why Smartparts finds it so hard to be straight with their intended audience.