All the AO flames.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

ok, i've been reading all the posts about postwhoring, superbolt incident, etc. everyone keeps getting on insulting everyone else for nothing. what does it do? create problems. doesn't anyone know that the best way to get someone to go away is to just ignore them. if someone is annoying you, ignore them. trust me, eventually, they'll go away.

someone comes and posts up bashing AO. everyone is quick to respond and defend they're favorite online activity to the fullest. don't get me wrong, i love agd and all my mags, but when everyone slams him, what's he going to do? he's going to retaliate. i know if someone attacks me, i'm going to defend myself. not only that, the people that come here just to deliberately attack AO and AGD, are just looking for attention. all your doing is giving them what they want.

postwhoring. there are a few people here that have had their post counts reset for their inane number of posts that have inadequate content. i'm not going to single out anyone and mention names, but everyone knows who i'm talking about. is someone that has 2000 posts in 2 months really going to affect you in any way whatsoever? is it really that hard to just skip someones 5 word post? does it really bother you that much to see someone's name on here? the answer to these questions is no, absolutely not(except maybe the third one, kinda the whole point). so what if someone spends all their free time looking at every single post of every single thread in every forum. if that's what makes them happy, screw it, let them. shouldn't having the only thing to do participating on an online paintball forum, punishment enough? i know having a life off of the computer is better than one on. just be happy you aren't one of them. obviously i don't like them posting 1 sentence posts, but they do. let them have what they consider, their fun.

things like the superbolt incident and "AGDtech jon flipped me off" thing only encourage them. how many people here know who Boneisagod is? everyone!!!! how many of you know who shartley is? probably most of you, i'd say like 70%. what has shartley given us? great insight and information on opinions and future products that AGD has coming. always backs up his opinions with proven data(his or others, nevertheless proven) and is always helpful to others where he feels he can help. not to mention he's a civil, well mannered, respectable person that will never slander anyone, even if he disagree's with them or their opinion. what did Bone do? cause a lot of heartache to people that only help all of us here and a lot of money to those same people. he cause a problem so big, that they're still feeling the repricussions from his actions. I'm sure they were counting the sails of all the emags with the superbolts instead of the bill for the re-shippment of them and refunds of purchased superbolts. why is it that someone so immature and troublesome is more well known that others that are helpful? that to me is horrible and discraceful.

in the long run, what it really boils down to is attention. a lot of these problems and problem makers are only looking for attention, and they are getting it. good or bad attention, it doesn't matter. as long as they get one or the other, they are content. i'm the youngest child, i know all about it, and i see it here. this is Tom Kaye's website. he has enough mods to watch the threads for what he deems appropriate and inappropriate behavior. if they don't do anything about it, then it must be acceptable to them and it should be to you. if they don't want someone posting the things that they post, they'll stop them. if they don't like the number of posts that they'll have, they'll delete them. if it something bothers you that much, get as people as you can to start a "petition thread" and sign it to maybe have a problem resolved. if they see a large number of people dislike something on a thread, i'm sure they'll take action. don't just waste yours and everyone else's time by just bad mouthing someone that will just create and prolong a problem. organizing and rationalizing the numbers is how you get action. one person voicing thier opinion doesn't do anything.

and lastly, shartly- i hope you didn't mind me using you. it was in good context and you fit the purpose.

thank you for reading my ramblings. just something i feel needed to be said.

[irbodden]

First off, I don't enjoy reading a post with 4 words in it, and a giant sig. on every post.

I really want to point out though, the flames on AGD are inappropriate here. There is no reason why you need to start something up here so everyone can see when all AGD will tell you is to call him. Back 6 monthes ago, this never happend, but now there is a new flame weekly. I have zero respect for the people that sign up, make one post which is a flame on who mean AGD techs were and how is gun broke. Its unneeded here.

Bah, its too early. I'll edit this one tonight.

[udtseal]

Very well said BigRagu. I have started and typed out a thread much like yours many times, then right when I was about to post it I would just cancel, cause I dident think it would make a difference anyway. But I am glad that someone took the initiative to do it. Lets hope for the best!

[MINIMAGMAN]

i like being a post whore :p

[Paintchucker]

Post Whoring does effect everyone. It takes valuable Webserver resources. Remember that when you can't post your tech support question because some chatterbox has used all the diskspace with nonsense...

[Dubstar112]

Originally posted by irbodden
First off, I don't enjoy reading a post with 4 words in it, and a giant sig. on every post.

I really want to point out though, the flames on AGD are inappropriate here. There is no reason why you need to start something up here so everyone can see when all AGD will tell you is to call him. Back 6 monthes ago, this never happend, but now there is a new flame weekly. I have zero respect for the people that sign up, make one post which is a flame on who mean AGD techs were and how is gun broke. Its unneeded here.

Bah, its too early. I'll edit this one tonight.


What really makes me mad is when somone posts thier problem on the board and refuses help.. there was a post like this today, and im not going to flame it.

What i do like to read is when someone has a problem and they post it in an orderly fashion, and ask specific questions to get help.

Hey why doesnt a mod sticky this for a few days, so before people decide to flame, they can get help?

[FooTemps]

Ok, I guess I'm just part of the problem here... I might not be serious all the time but who is? C'mon, some postwhores lighten up to mood. For instance, major post whored a couple weeks back and gave us all a good laugh. I think some people need to loosen up. I mean, with all of these tense times at AGD we're going beserk on each other without even realizing it.

[MINIMAGMAN]

i agree with footemps (not trying to postwhore now) :P

[Bad Dave]

Post whoring really bothers me, it is another form of hijacking a thread.

If you were in a paintball store and tom kaye and bud orr were talking would u walk up to them and say woot or something similar but equally stupid? I hope not.

Generally I can live with it but it really gets to me on the more technical postings discussing topics in depth, then a post whore pops up and makes some irrelevant post which breaks the flow.

I know mods have the power to delete posts and I would recommend they do this on a more regular basis (time allowing) to discourage such post whores from posting in such a way.

This does not help AGD at all, recently I have noticed that other forums have lost all respect for automags.org, there are several reasons for this. More disturbing though are some of the other comments I have seen attacking tom kaye personally, showing he has lost credibility, many regard him as the snake oil salesman nowadays. If I wanted to quote the things I have been told by employees of several companies I could stir up some trouble. Tom gives advice here in good faith and people use this info to start flaming fights on other forums, this is really not a good idea.

I believe in the products of AGD but shoot an angel, in 6-12 months when AGD have the extreme really worked out I plan on getting one.

[cphilip]

I think Bad Dave makes some very interesting and valid points here. Some of them you may not like. But this is a snap shot into another persons mind as to how this site is percieved. Take some of it to heed. You do not have to agree or disagree. But you have to admit that it exists. And then you have to look at yourself and see if youa re a part of the problem as well. You might not like what you see in the mirror. But it's there none the less. So what are we going to do about it?

[shartley]

Bad Dave
Great post.

But I would like to add that it actually goes a lot deeper than that.. unfortunately.

Serious reflection would be advised by both the AGD Management and AO Members.

‘nuff said. You either get it, or you don’t.

[HoppysMag]

Its sad that our shanagins have brought a bad name to Tom and AGD. I hope this problem can be solved quickly and quietly. I will keep up my vow Not to postwhore. And BAD DAVE Your so right. As we take care of postwhoring we must also restore AGD's reputation.

[Russ]

One other thing I've noticed is how much AO loves a "scandal"

If someone has something negative to say about experience with an AGD product, it really sets off a posting frenzy. "angry owners" thread is a classic example. 75 replies to a person who posted only ONE exaggerated story.

Folks often feel the need to defend all that is AGD, without all the facts. Brand loyalty is fine and dandy, but some get really carried away. At any rate, the internet is a volatile platform for a company to interact with it's customers. Weather good or bad, you gotta give credit to Tom for involving himself and his company in the "snake pit" which is the 'net.


Russ

[FooTemps]

I may have sparked some problems on the other forums along with a couple others. I remember that during the thermonuclear server thing that a lot of us when to pbnation's wdp forums and started flooding in one thread that someone from over here posted up.

[shartley]

See? It is ALL Foo's fault! Someone git' the rope!

;)

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by shartley
See? It is ALL Foo's fault! Someone git' the rope!

;)

YEAH! LETS PLAY HANGMAN WITH A REAL PERSON! lol... But seriously. I'm not the only person who did that... I didn't even start it. I just decided to join in.

[mattyfatty182]

For most of you, this will be a hard pill to swallow, but here it goes:

I personally think we should close down the regristration system. Why? Because most of the people who make the "attention getting" threads have recently regristered. Same with the people who just got banned for a week. Look around (on the website silly :)) and you will see that we already have a knowledgeable enough group to support AO for as long as we feel that we need. The same goes for George Bush. He is already talking about raising the budget for the "Homeland Security" group. There's a simple solution, GW, CLOSE THE BORDERS. Our country works fine today, why do we need any more illegal/legal immagrants? All of our McDonalds are staffed, and it would help lighten the load on our already strained Charities/Welfare program.

Just my ramble.

[cledford]

First point - AO does enjoy a scandal. I think what really needs to occur here is that everyone needs to step back, think for a second, then honestly answer this question: Is AO a club for 'Mag (or other AGD product owners) or is it an open forum? The consider this: Which would appeal more to non-mag (but potential) owners? Most people don't like getting involved with a group where they feel that they are on the outside and not welcome in. In some cases people come to the board under bad times, only for the whole situation to turn around and they become great members. (Take my story - which follows in this post)

I personally think the mods are saddled with a difficult task - but at the same time sometimes think they might be taking things a little more seriously then necessary. BUT, one has to know how they view the site to really understand their motivations. I will say that often I see punishments handed out in almost an elementary school fashion - with the offender being publicly hauled out, and the whole issue brought to light when had it been dealt with quietly I would have probably have never known, and been happier to have not been involved. I don't disagree with the efforts to keep things clean here - but disagree with the drama.

Second matter - I think for the forum to truly prosper, and get the message out the AGD is shooting for (educate the masses) things need to be a little more tolerant, and a little less "clubish" here. It's great that we all support Tom and his company, but really it's all just us preaching to the choir if no one else from the outside comes here. I've had people tell me that they've check out AO and like the format, and the fact that Tom posts, but then in the next sentence state that they get a sense of closed mindedness at the site - which keeps them away and on forums that they consider "open" - like WarPig or Paintball Nation.

Sometimes I get a little concerned about the responses to some of the negative posts. I realize that most are BS, but there is a fine line between controlling slander, and censorship. One of my first posts on the forum was a pretty harsh look at the Emag. (My first one didn't work upon purchase) Everything in it was true, and yeah there was some emotion as well, but hey - I felt I needed to vent after spending $1000 on something that didn't work correctly. (In fact I felt like deserved it) I had never dealt with AGD support (for a problem that is) before that point, and even though they had a great rep, I was still hopping mad at first. I had a bad run with an AA Apocalypse, AA Armageddon, Warp Feed, and then Emag all not working upon purchase. I was a little sensitive about everything, and took it out here - but did not embellish, did not exaggerate, and did not make anything up. For all of my efforts a mod deleted my post, and then deleted my post proclaiming censorship as well. That's not cool, and was almost the breaking point with me and the company. The turning point was when Tom called me personally and made everything right. I now consider myself a huge ambassador for AGD, and try to spread the good word where ever I go - even to the extent of letting people shoot MY paint, through MY Emag to show them how awesome it is.

My big point in the above rant (I can be long winded) is that an over-zealous mod almost broke what has turned out to be a great relationship between me and Airgun - before Tom or his company even had a chance to do anything about it. When I read posts like the one accusing Jon of freaking out on the phone, everyone and their brother (mods and members) jumped in on behalf of Jon and AGD, but hey - no one really knows what happened expect the dude, and Jon. Once it got all sorted out someone could have made a single post in explanation, then locked the thread. As I read all of the "supporting" posts I thought to myself "This has got to be BS, but I don't really know for sure. No one else does either - so how would this look to a non-AO member?" My conclusion was that it could look like a cover up - the guy was already being accused of being a flamer, and was being challenged for not responding - when things were only 8 hours old. Personally, I don't think any of it happened the way it was written - we all know/have dealt with Jon and couldn't believe it - but the key is how would it look to an outsider who doesn't/hasn't interacted with him? Aren't there customer service travesties everyday? If you haven't dealt with Jon before, isn't it possible to consider that everything may have went down the way it was written, and we were all covering up? To avoid such an appearance I suggest locking the flames, doing an investigation (best left to AGD staff), and then posting a single reply, then relocking.

Oh, and I don't think that in general the unwanted goings-ons are hurting the legitimacy of the board - they happen every where. It doesn't stop people from surfing any of the other 5 boards I actively monitor. I think the real threat is looking overly biased to the real people we need to bring here - those potential AGD customers still on the fence.

Finally, one last question: What do we think is Tom's motivation is for bringing us this site? Simply to create a "club" environment? Maybe, I think he cares about us more then any other vendor does about their customers, and wants to reward us for our loyality. But - I'm also fairly sure he wants to use it a vehicle to bring as many into the fold also - we need to help support him in that effort.

-Calvin Ledford

[wimag]

I usually despise seeing Foo's posts but after unfortunately reading this thread a few of his remarks were right on. Lighten up, it's a fricking website.

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by wimag
I usually despise seeing Foo's posts but after unfortunately reading this thread a few of his remarks were right on. Lighten up, it's a fricking website.

I'm sorry that you hate every one of my posts. Even the sensible ones...

[wimag]

no need to apologize. yeah that was funny, "sensible ones" woohoohoo you crack me up,needed that, thanks

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by wimag
no need to apologize. yeah that was funny, "sensible ones" woohoohoo you crack me up,needed that, thanks

Sometimes it's needed! :D

[Paintchucker]

It seems that your post count was zero'd out because of post whoring. I guess it did no good, as you are almost back to 200 in a week???

[2000Sabre]

One of the reasons I log into the AO forum each in every day is threads like this. This is a classic case of a good, civilized discussion. It'something I enjoy, especially when you can offer a different opinion without slamming someone. I think this is one of the reasons why Tom keeps AO alive at his own expense.

As far as postwhoring goes I can live with it but would prefer not to see it happen as frequently as it does here. My opinion is if you want to make a short, cute remark to someones's post, send them a PM that's what it's there for.

I also believe in something Shartley said a long time ago. If you don't have anything to add or it's already been said before there's no need to post. Sometimes lurking on the board is equally as satisfying as posting a reply. Maybe if we all excerised this just a little more AO would be a better place.

I also feel that people should take the time to read a post before they reply. Too often I see posts where some replies are totally off track or the intent or spirit of the thread been severely misunderstood. Next thing you know the thread becomes a flame war because someone said something someone didn't like. Come on guys, we're all human beings and all have different opinions. We should take the time to respect each other even though we may not agree with this persons viewpoint. I don't think our first reaction should be to insult someone. If you feel strongly about it, state your case with facts with a rebuttal or take it off line and address the person via a PM. Let's not let our emotions get the best of us.

When it comes to AGD we all know they make great products because we use them, but I also believe that they're not perfect and it's OK to critize them. I don't think Tom would respect us very much if all we did was tell him how great he was. I also don't believe the forum is the place that AGD expects to attract the majority of it's new customers. I think that battle belongs in the proshops, on the playing fields and in the industry magazines. How and when AGD choses do this is up to them, not me and you. The forum should be a place for people to supplement their knowledge of AGD products and to get advice before and after making a purchase. That should include both praise and critisim. I know I wouldn't respect the forum if it were only just a big love fest. To this end I think AO serves that purpose very well.

Congratulations AO, I think this thread shows we can conduct a conversation with some class and respect one another. Keep it up

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by Paintchucker
It seems that your post count was zero'd out because of post whoring. I guess it did no good, as you are almost back to 200 in a week???

Look, You can't always associate high post count with post whoring. I don't really postwhore anymore. I just post a lot. I probably haven't had more than 5 posts so far that were post whoring...

[magic55]

you guys really need to lighten up. Is there anyone here who hasn't argued with someone before? all flames are is when a lot of people try to voice their opionions and get very involved in it.

Whenever somebody says something, the next ten posts are saying the exact same thing until one person says something different then everyone says that. so theres something that you could work on, if someone already said it don't keep going on and on about the same darn thing.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

ok, we all love AGD. it's a great company, makes great products, and supports it's customers better than any other company in the paintball business(IMO). however, another thing i don't understand is that people defend it like it were their child. ok, i'll stick up for mags up to a certain point, but come on. it's just a paintball gun. do people just have nothing better to do besides bicker over which gun is better? so what? besides all that, it's the player, not the gun. hell, i don't even think mags are the best guns out there. they're still my favorite, but i don't think they're the best. overall, i would take a good mag over pretty much any gun. but why get all bent out of shape over some moron that's just there to cause problems? all you're doing is adding fuel to the fire and doing exactly what he wants. it just seems to me that if people would use their heads, and in some cases, were a little more mature, there would be far fewer problems if any.

[Bad Dave]

The credibility of AGD is still important to me, I feel more connected to AGD than I do to any other company even though I do not own any of their products currently.

This forum is responsible for that I feel, it seems Tom is on my level and everyone gets to share in the 'secrets' he knows and the projects he is working on. I have recently seen a small resurgence in AGD products with a new team starting out. I sold my RT to one of them and the rest are toting mags or RTs, WHY? Largely due to this website.

On the way out to a tourney a couple of weeks back me and my bud were talking bout internet sites and we both agreed that AO has the best 'community feel' of all the other sites. I find pbnation to be a bit soulless and harsh whereas AO is a much more friendly place, lets keep it that way.

The thing about postwhoring is that it denigrates the post whore, I have seen some helpful posts by Foo temps in the past but I don't think people pay attention if you postwhore. You can have a laugh or you can have credibility it seems to me. I'm not saying this forum should be grey and drab but a balance should be struck. There are some 'fun' threads and 'technical' threads, all you have to do is match the content of your post to the thread its in.

[Russ]

BadDave brings up an interesting issue...
...even though I do not own any of their products currently.

A lot of folks who have very vocal opinions about AGD, products, "brand loyalty", etc. have very few or don't even own ANY AGD products. It's easy to say how much one supports a company, it's another to actually support that company with their WALLETS!

Heck, I do!

[cphilip]

Originally posted by cledford
When I read posts like the one accusing Jon of freaking out on the phone, everyone and their brother (mods and members) jumped in on behalf of Jon and AGD, but hey - no one really knows what happened expect the dude, and Jon. Once it got all sorted out someone could have made a single post in explanation, then locked the thread. As I read all of the "supporting" posts I thought to myself "This has got to be BS, but I don't really know for sure. No one else does either - so how would this look to a non-AO member?" My conclusion was that it could look like a cover up - the guy was already being accused of being a flamer, and was being challenged for not responding - when things were only 8 hours old. Personally, I don't think any of it happened the way it was written - we all know/have dealt with Jon and couldn't believe it - but the key is how would it look to an outsider who doesn't/hasn't interacted with him? Aren't there customer service travesties everyday? If you haven't dealt with Jon before, isn't it possible to consider that everything may have went down the way it was written, and we were all covering up? To avoid such an appearance I suggest locking the flames, doing an investigation (best left to AGD staff), and then posting a single reply, then relocking.

-Calvin Ledford

Calvin, I want to take a moment and respond to your commets. I was the Mod stuck with dealing with this. For your information a lot was done behind the sceens to try and verify this guys story. In fact I spent most of two days trying to converse with him. Trying to get him to give me one little thing to work with. And in fact am still doing so. It was left open until that had all but failed in order to NOT LOOK LIKE A COVER UP! My Call. Locking the thread early on like you suggest is exactly the kind of thing you complain about. Still he refuses to give us anything to go on. So at some point I must protect the accused person from further damage. This is his job and future we are talking about here. This was a serious accusation that should not be considered trivial fodder for the boards of AO. Still I left it open for as long as I felt that I could with fair warning and a time limit. Taht was about 24 hours from the first of his post. I think that was fair. youwill notice it was monitored very carefully. No one got out of hand. I suggest you go back and read my Moderating of that thread. You are insinuating some things that are not fact.

I can tell all of you this much: The only name he has provided to us is not a registered owner of an Emag. He will not provide the serial number. When challenged with the fact that NO EMAG WAS REGISTERED TO THAT NAME. He then tells me he used the previous owners name to do it. OK so possibel so I ask for that or the serail number again. But he will not tell me that name is! Or the serial number. At some point I gotta call BS. So I am. He is still talking to me through email as of this morning but refuses to give me any info to even verify any of his story. I have offered many times to reopen the thread if he does and tell what facts I have. But at this point I HAVE NONE! His fault not mine. I am open to anything he can provide that would shed any light on this. But there at this point are to many inconsistencies and total uncooperation from him for me to do anything to give him any credibitily. I have told him repeatedly that AGD has offered to, at their expense, have the marker fixed or replaced. He responds with nothing but contemptuous statements about AGD and Tom. No facts. Nothing to work with. I am giving up. I have done all I can to help him. Marcia has too. And I surely hope that the members here are not so inclined to think like you that we would not. I work hard to try and keep things flowing and mediate these kinds of things when they come up as fairly as possible. I think most of the members know my style. You seem to not so I am explaining it to you for the future. So I hope you can see a little bit more now of what has gone on behind the scenes. It was not done in haste without thought as my reading of your comments seems to imply. it was done openly, fairly and with much effort to seek the truth. Anyone who can see cover up in what I did is unfairly looking for something that is not there.

I am sorry about what happened to you when you had your problems but I would not have done that which you describe. That is not the spirit of AO which Tom has asked us to uphold.

Respectfully submitted

cphilip of AO

[cledford]

Cphillip,

Like I said at the outset of my post -you guys have a tough job. It's easy for all of us to sit back a shoot holes in your logic later having the benefit of 20/20, and/or not knowing the whole story.

My point regarding the locking of the thread is this - in the case of an ongoing investigation it is proper. By locking the post, it hasn't been removed so the poster can't cry foul/censorship while the investigation is taking place, but at the same time in the case where there is a legitimate beef the poster also isn't vilified for posting their unhappy experience.

If I were asked for my opinion on the best way to deal with a customer service matter (or psudo as the case dictates), I'd say - Lock the thread with a explanation post to the effect "The is a serious allegation/complaint/accusation by the poster - AGD is initiating an internal investigation to determine the merit of the matter, and taking the appropriate action to resolve the issue. Once the matter is concluded a statement will be issued to all." Then let Tom, or what ever AGD employee who deals with the customer post a reply regarding the matter once it is totally resolved - or you or another mod can get a brain-dump on the situation and post on their behalf. The you guys can unlock/ continue to lock the post as your discretion determines. I think this would provide 3 key wins. First, it would cast the mods in an impartial light. Second, it wouldn't give anyone ever the hint of any type of damage control/cover up. And 3rd, even though you mods are representatives of AGD, the people there who's job it is to deal with customer service matters can do their job unencumbered.

In the Jon incident, it sounds like the whole thing (as most members speculated) was all BS. AGD (IMHO) stands or falls based on their actions and customer service (or lack there of), it's not the mods responsibility to protect that, it's their job to keep things under control so that they can protect it themselves at the appropriate time. Therefore, even though you were conducting diligent investigation on their behalf the thread became a run away, with tons of posts of all types. If a new user had logged on a read all that stuff, who knows what they might have thought. You really have to read deep into the post before it really starts looking like the guy was a bogus poster.

OK, on to your other comments.

Just my opinions - thanks for the dialog. Again, it's easy for me to sit back and make suggestions not knowing the full scope of what you guys deal with.

Oh, and just for the record - I was not complaining about the temporary locking of a post while a matter is taken care of - my issue was with the deletion of posts that are unfavorable to AGD. (unless they were outright lies)

-Calvin

[Bad Dave]

I think a lot of people on AO unwisely forget that AGD need to generate sales, ie rather than keep the minority on AO happy AGD need to sell to the majority. They need to look at sales this year, next year and in 5 years time. Why do u think the angel keeps on changing? to keep you buying.

It is a very good thing to have people on this board who do not own AGD products, they provide a balanced view which needs to be taken into account as they represent the future.

I have owned an automag and sold less than two weeks ago a z grip RT. I have owned a warp feed and a flatline, AGD have taken most of the money I have spent on kit. I now own an angel, why? single trigger electro at an affordable price thats why.

Some more background, two of my ex-teammates now play for Storm UK, AGD europes factory team, I have seen much of the extreme prior to production etc.etc. I used to play on one of the few all mag teams in the UK.

I think AGD have a winner with the extreme but I am chilled with my playing at the moment a few small tournies and walk ons here and there. Due to this I am not in the market for an extreme quite yet. I finish my degree in 18 months or so but will look into an extreme in the next 6-12 months.

[cphilip]

Fair enough Calvin. It was a shame it was posted while Tom was traveling so he could not get more involved in how he would have liked it handled. I do not think any members got totally out of hand or it would have been locked for that. I, in fact, had kind of hoped someone would do so and give me that out. Surprising isn't it? But they never did.

But I will point out as to the locking or not locking at any given time you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's a lose - lose situation as a Moderator to make that call. You may think going your way is better but someone else would complain just as loud about it if I did it your way. I did what I thought best at the time. I could be wrong and if so it was an honest mistake intended to give Angy his time to respond. At that point I could not tell if he could respond by email. When I made the decision to put a time limit into play he had not. At that point I had to leave him a way to respond but know when the end was to be in case it was a hoax. I do not think the way I handled it gave anyone any hint of cover up but no matter what I did someone would claim that. I knew that going in. It's like handling poisonous snakes here sometime. But somebody has to make a call. I was the one initaly on it so it fell to me. I did not relish it at all. I truly was on pins and needles with it the last two days. Still am. The whole thing upset me to no end. I wracked my brains trying to figure out the best course for that one. And I chose the one you see. I think it was the right way to go.

As to customer service: GO back and look at my comments. All of mine delt with AO rules. All the logic I used was to enfoce AO rulse but to keep in mind that this is a AGD owned site and anything I do could impact them so I must only operate within AO rules. AGD handled the customer service angle themselves. But I am here to enforce AO rules.

As you will see no one overruled me on it and could have. SO I assume they agreed with my handling of it. Or they were just chicken! :D In fact I wish someone had taken it off my head really. But....well... I feel I did the right thing. Sorry if some of you do not agree.

Added on edit: Oh! I forgot to tell you the most important point! Angry did indeed complain that I locked the thread too quick! He didn't like that I only gave him 24 hours from posting to respond! See?

[cledford]

Man, you are in a tough position with a difficult issue.

Whether a person agrees or doesn't with how you handled the matter, you last post shows how much you care about the forum, and how hard you tried to do the "best" thing.

My hat is off to you for all that you went through dealing with the matter.

Sorry if it seemed that I don't appreciate the job that you guys do - I was just trying to present some ideas on how things might be done a little differently. Hopefully they won't be seen as criticism, but as a different perspective.

-Calvin

[cphilip]

Actualy your post was very welcome in the end run. It helped clear the air of what I realy was going through and wanted to say. I hope you don't mind being used as the "Devils Advocate" for this.

[cledford]

Cool - I think that's one of the best reasons for the forum. Take care,

-Calvin

[cphilip]

Thanks Calvin. Your cool with me friend.