Level 10...?

[MoeMag]

Okay... so I have had mags for a good number of years now. I can tune them, and at one point I was actually paid to work on them... :rolleyes:

but a recent project of mine, I have come to realize...

I have no IDEA what those shims and spacers are for. I know ya swap em out, follow the automag trouble shoot flow chart and all, but how do they actually "tune" the gun?
Anyone have a link, care to explain, or whatever, what those little things do? I mean, those shims seem ridiculously small, how do they make so much difference?

I know... sounds like an uber noob question, but I really never thought about it.

Thx.

[Hilltop Customs]

the shims adjust when the hole in the side of the lvl 10 bolt passes the carrier o-ring....and in effect starts to leak.


Shim adjustments
Put a squeegee right in front of the bolt and pull the trigger. With very little clearance between the bolt and squeegee you will notice that the bolt comes forward and just stops on the squeegee. Then nothing else happens. Pulling the trigger does nothing to reset the bolt. In order to get the bolt to reset when it pinches a ball, we have to let the air out of the air chamber. The shims (5) control where in the forward stroke the air chamber starts venting. Its works a lot like the spacers in the original Mags. We left them out before so you could tell the difference between a carrier leak and a shim leak.

Remove the power tube tip (7) and drop in two shims (5). Make SURE they are sitting flat in the bottom of the power tube before you screw the power tube tip on otherwise you will bend them up. Bent shims are useless and you will have to buy more. Reassemble the valve system as before using the original main spring and new Superbolt. Now when you air up the marker it should not leak but when you do the squeegee test you will notice that the air starts venting when the Superbolt moves forward. If you keep adding shims eventually the bolt will just leak all the time. For most people two shims work just fine. If you find that when you pinch a ball the marker locks up and does not reset then add another shim.

[MoeMag]

Okay... so does the carrier adjust the diameter of the o-ring, and the shims change the front to back alignment?

Do you all put the shims between the powertube and the carrier, or between the carrier and the powertube tip?

[Hilltop Customs]

yep shims adjust the location of the carrier o-ring relative to the little hole in the bolt.....more shims creates a shorter high force stage of bolt movement, but also creates more chance for a constant leak and chuffing....less o-rings creates a longer high force stage of bolt movement(harder on paint) and a greater chance for bolt stick...bolt stick happens when the air pressure behind the bolt = the bolt spring pressure + the pressure of a ball stopping the bolt, the little hole in the bolt is used to unbalance that equation by bleeding air and allowing the bolt to reset...if that little hole isnt past the carrier o-ring the equation remains balanced and the bolt wont move forward to push the ball out of the way or back to reset....aka the bolt is stuck and you have to figure out a way to move it which is a PITA on the field.

shims go between the tip and the carrier, because when the valve is pressurized the carrier will be pushed out toward the tip of the power tube, placing them inside of the carrier wouldn't really create adjustment.

I hope that made sense, I just woke up.

[MoeMag]

thx! that was awesome.
:cheers:

[Spider-TW]

thx! that was awesome.
:cheers:
now u r xpurt

;)

If you can just keep the level 10 operation and trouble shooting straight in the face of the usual leaks and hangups you'll be ahead of a lot of people. Working on an unfamiliar marker with one, or especially something like a new pneu-frame at the same time is a challenge.

[MoeMag]

now u r xpurt

;)

If you can just keep the level 10 operation and trouble shooting straight in the face of the usual leaks and hangups you'll be ahead of a lot of people. Working on an unfamiliar marker with one, or especially something like a new pneu-frame at the same time is a challenge.


haha yeah for sure.

I always figured that the carriers were just big increments of adjustment in length, and the shims were the small in betweens.

I never thought that one would squeeze the o-ring diameter to change it. I guess it makes sense tho.

I always wondered why AGD couldnt machine something to work no matter what... but i guess its the o-ring, not AGD. Makes me feel better.

:cheers:

[Hilltop Customs]

yea the drag created by a tight fitting universal o-ring and carrier would vary highly depending on temp, humidity, lubrication and a few other things....that variability would make having a universal carrier almost impossible, also a universal one would not be as gentle on paint because it would have to be designed with the worst possible conditions in mind.


blah blah blah....

[athomas]

Buna orings have more give to them than urethane. If you use buna orings in the carrier, you can be more generic in your carrier size and still have good operation. However, the oring will wear out faster and require replacement more often.