To those posting items for sale with the list of "rules"

[punkncat]

There are already a set done for you HERE (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196200). Someone has already taken the time to fill you in on what is and is not allowed. Even typed it up so you don't have to question. Not only here, but the other forums you like to post on as well! I bet if you look closely they will have a post almost exactly like the one linked above.

You will notice many things in there that help you make a successful thread. Such as how unnecessary your own set of rules can be. Or how simple things such as stating a price really DO help you sell an item!

/end rant

[Madmarx]

Bravo :cheers:

[TnDeathInc]

i usually say for saLE :)

[MAGgot]

The longer their list of "rules" the less I want to buy anything from them!

[Phaelynar]

There are already a set done for you HERE (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196200). Someone has already taken the time to fill you in on what is and is not allowed. Even typed it up so you don't have to question. Not only here, but the other forums you like to post on as well! I bet if you look closely they will have a post almost exactly like the one linked above.

You will notice many things in there that help you make a successful thread. Such as how unnecessary your own set of rules can be. Or how simple things such as stating a price really DO help you sell an item!

/end rant

Maybe they don't want people offering them markers + cash for their marker when they only want cash? Maybe they don't want a particular brand or several brands of markers being offered for theirs?

They put them there as general guidelines of what people should/shouldn't offer for their product. Does the forum do that for them too? :rofl:

Not only that, but it allows the person who made the sale thread to ignore all stupid offers without coming off as rude. If it states "don't offer marker X" and someone offers marker x, the only person that looks stupid is the person that offered marker x.

It makes a lot of sense to put general guidelines in a for sale or for trade thread to avoid having it cluttered. I guess that's a very hard concept to grasp though.

:rofl: :rofl:

[Beemer]

Hmmmmm

[SCpoloRicker]

Maybe they don't want people offering them markers + cash for their marker when they only want cash? Maybe they don't want a particular brand or several brands of markers being offered for theirs?

They put them there as general guidelines of what people should/shouldn't offer for their product. Does the forum do that for them too? :rofl:

Not only that, but it allows the person who made the sale thread to ignore all stupid offers without coming off as rude. If it states "don't offer marker X" and someone offers marker x, the only person that looks stupid is the person that offered marker x.

It makes a lot of sense to put general guidelines in a for sale or for trade thread to avoid having it cluttered. I guess that's a very hard concept to grasp though.

:rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

/ :rolleyes:

[Smoothice]

I agree and disagree.

An example I agree with would be:

1. Be mature.

Well that should go without saying. The rules you linked to would cover that.


An example I don't agree with would be:

1. Trades : No ions, spyder, or other low end markers.

Well I didn't see that in the list you linked. So in order to not have to look at tons of worthless posts I think this would be a good rule.

2. Won't ship out of U.S

Why get someones hopes up who is out of the country and you won't ship to them. May as well put it out there up front.

[Hilltop Customs]

its their items for sale, its their thread they started.....I say just let them list whatever "thread rules" they want as long as it doesn't break the official rules.

If the rules actually inform the buyer of important info, then its a good thing. Now if the rules are stupid, just laugh at them and move on.(or post in their thread making fun of them and break their rules, because its not official rules and the thread starter has no means of enforcing rules)

[Beemer]

its their items for sale, its their thread they started.....I say just let them list whatever "thread rules" they want as long as it doesn't break the official rules.

If the rules actually inform the buyer of important info, then its a good thing. Now if the rules are stupid, just laugh at them and move on.(or post in their thread making fun of them and break their rules, because its not official rules and the thread starter has no means of enforcing rules)

You kid right? YOU did read THE RULES, did you not?

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196200

"If you choose to disrupt a thread with BS you are subject to a Five Day ban without notice or warning."

"We cant see it all so if you see the crap in any forum, Please use the report button and state the reason. No one will know who you are and if there is a problem it will be dealt with.

Doh :argh:

[sffudapparel]

I agree with above, nothing is wrong with saying.

No Trades please
Can ship to US48
Paypal or Money order accepted



It gets annoying when people write a whole story about how they got insanely good feedback (3 positive) and that there's absolutely no way they will ship first even if you're the President of the United States. Then they continue to say that if you do not agree to the 5 paragraph essay of rules above then get out of my thread and you're an idiot for even thinking about offering.

[Beemer]

Then they continue to say that if you do not agree to the 5 paragraph essay of rules above then get out of my thread and you're an idiot for even thinking about offering.

Yup got that covered also.

"If these rules are to hard for you to follow your thread and or post in a thread can and WILL be removed and NOT subject to any warning OR notice."

[Hilltop Customs]

I guess that was stupid of me to say. I didnt really mean to literally make fun of them or bring bs to threads, what I meant was if users are allowed to post their own rules in threads, and mods are brought in to enforce the users rules, then anyone will be able to post any just about any rule and have it be enforced....which is insane, especially considering the amt of mod time it would waste.

anyway if your going to post rules at least make them make sense and limit the number...."be mature" should be generally accepted in a buy/sale/trade thread without needing to be stated.

my bad Beemer

[Beemer]

and mods are brought in to enforce the users rules, then anyone will be able to post any just about any rule and have it be enforced....which is insane, especially considering the amt of mod time it would waste.

anyway if your going to post rules at least make them make sense and limit the number...."be mature" should be generally accepted in a buy/sale/trade thread without needing to be stated.

my bad Beemer


Its all Good. We dont enforce USER rules, just the forum rules. That is all. If a Thread OR Post gets reported it DOES get looked at. Reported posts or threads saves us time. This is AO are we not self governing. Just do it. As is stated WE cant read them all.

How many posts or replys should be in a SPAM thread??????? This will waste our time as there are MULTIPLE reports for the same thread. The answer is ONE. Its a one word post.
REPORTED but yet many members dont do it right. If you are first to post or see, simply state reported and report it. Dont report and not post it and dont post unless it is a one word post. End rant.... :cheers:

[punkncat]

Hey Beemer. It is nice to see you taking such an intrest in the thread..... :dance:

I think that any of you that are 'experienced' B/S/T trolls know exactly where I am coming from. You get these folks who have a list a mile long of criteria you are supposed to meet for the honor of doing business with them. The famous "I will not ship first" is of course obviously at the top of a long list of similar and equally un-intelligent requirements by some guy no one has heard of registered yesterday, or the equally frequent member with 10 posts that registered two years ago......

[Steelrat]

Just do what I do when I see those BST threads.

Ignore them, and move on. Screw them AND their gear.

[A-Tach-One]

Just do what I do when I see those BST threads.

Ignore them, and move on.
Exactly what I do.

[Toll]

I really don't mind the guide lines because it lets me know who/what I'm dealing with


If they are posting really stupid guide lines, maybe I'd rather not deal with them.

I am going to grab the first set I can find off the nation and we'll break'er down.

"Not bad"

"Rules:
- Don't PM me, post here
- Seems pretty valid to me, wants his thread up. I would do both if I was interested
- Trades are fine, lets see what you have
- This seems fine to me too
- No links to your threads, post your pics and offers here !!!!
-Kind of lazy, but it serves to keep it on the front page
- I will not ship first
- If I have 10x your feedback and we trade, you're shipping first. Sorry bud. "


BAD

- I Don't ship first. Esp. if its a trade. So Don't ask. Don't try
-So you're going to be hard to work with if I want to trade. The attitude makes me warry
- Paypal Preferred! you pay fees and shipping
Nope. Paypal fees are for the seller to absorb so unless you want to actually add 3% onto your pricing. By stating this it makes it look, to me, that you've got a "f--k you, pay me" attitude and thats my big gripe.
- Post here then pm me

- If you flame me, I WILL report you.

- Read the thread again.
-So right off the bat you're pretty sure that I'm a moron. Wonderful.

[Chronobreak]

good thread

it really is annoying when people post their own rules and obnoxious ones at that, even worse is when they try and get people in trouble for breaking "their" rules and not forum rules. :mad:

[Empyreal Rogue]

You realize that most people just copy-paste their sale threads from PBN, right?

[wetwrks]

You realize that most people just copy-paste their sale threads from PBN, right?

LOL I copy paste most mine from here. :cool:

[usagi_tetsu]

- I Don't ship first. Esp. if its a trade. So Don't ask. Don't try
-So you're going to be hard to work with if I want to trade. The attitude makes me warry


I always post the rule "I don't ship first", but I do admit that I rarely take in trades. I'm selling you an item, which means cash up front. I don't know how many times I've had to post this in my FS threads because some mental retread thinks that because he's got X more feedback posts than I do that I'm going to pack up whatever I'm selling, sight unseen, and send it to him and hope that he deigns to pay me when he gets it. If you pay me first and I screw you, you at least have an avenue of redress through the payment option - PayPal refunds most of the time, and if I screw you on a USPS MO, that's postal fraud and a federal crime. If I ship and you don't pay... well, let's hope the address you gave me will lead me to you, otherwise I'm SOL. So yes, the "I don't ship first" goes into effect when I sell. Don't like it? Drive on to somewhere else, private.




- Paypal Preferred! you pay fees and shipping
Nope. Paypal fees are for the seller to absorb so unless you want to actually add 3% onto your pricing. By stating this it makes it look, to me, that you've got a "f--k you, pay me" attitude and thats my big gripe.

Now, I find the fact that it's perfectly legal for PayPal to pass along the fees they are being charged by the various credit institutions (which is what part of those fees are), but illegal for us, the end users, to pass them along to our customers morally dirty. Major national corporations pass along credit card fees to us, the customers, all the time, you just don't notice it as they don't the credit card users specifically, they raise the prices for everybody. So I always phrase it this way - "Total I'm looking for is X, unless you pay with MO or check, and then I'll discount your total by Y." Look, I'm not in this for a business, but I have a business PayPal account just to be able to accept all the varieties of payments thru PP. I'm not here making money to pay bills, I'm trying to make up a little on used equipment so I can generally turn around and pick up other people's used equipment, and absorbing your preferred payment method's extra charges is not my obligation. No one asks the seller to pay the fee when you purchase a USPS money order, now do they? But, just like PP, they cost the buyer money when they sell them. So, why is PayPal different? Because it's in their contract? The logic just does not follow.

[shockman]

I hate that people demand more for using paypal. On eBay if I demand that as a seller I would be suspended, I know because I was warned once before I knew. Now I hate it.

[ThePixelGuru]

I post some rules in my thread, but not a lot and only because it's necessary. For instance, I say that I ship with delivery confirmation and that the buyer can either accept the extra cost of insurance or the risk of shipping without it. I don't want someone cheaping out on insurance and then blaming me when USPS loses it. It's never been an issue for me, but I'd like to be covered in case it happens.

Another rule I post is that I don't want offers posted in my threads but rather PMed to me. Otherwise my thread gets clogged with offers for half my asking price, and no one wants to pay my asking price because they can see all I've gotten are lowballs. Believe it or not, this is still a problem even when it's in the forum rules and bolded and bright red in my thread. Still, having the rule there allows me to quote the rule and otherwise ignore the post rather than treat it as a legitimate offer.

Some rules are legit to post, some are just annoying. I do feel that I need to post a couple rules, but I try not to make them stupid rules or waste too much time.


Now, I find the fact that it's perfectly legal for PayPal to pass along the fees they are being charged by the various credit institutions (which is what part of those fees are), but illegal for us, the end users, to pass them along to our customers morally dirty. Major national corporations pass along credit card fees to us, the customers, all the time, you just don't notice it as they don't the credit card users specifically, they raise the prices for everybody. So I always phrase it this way - "Total I'm looking for is X, unless you pay with MO or check, and then I'll discount your total by Y." Look, I'm not in this for a business, but I have a business PayPal account just to be able to accept all the varieties of payments thru PP. I'm not here making money to pay bills, I'm trying to make up a little on used equipment so I can generally turn around and pick up other people's used equipment, and absorbing your preferred payment method's extra charges is not my obligation. No one asks the seller to pay the fee when you purchase a USPS money order, now do they? But, just like PP, they cost the buyer money when they sell them. So, why is PayPal different? Because it's in their contract? The logic just does not follow.
That's not how it works at all. You claim that Paypal passes on the credit card fees as part of their price - well, pass along the Paypal fees as part of your price. If you don't want to lose money via Paypal, just add the extra buck or so to your posted price and stop violating your Paypal contract. You don't have to accept Paypal, but if you want to, you pay. I don't pass along Paypal fees to my buyers because I don't feel like waiting for money orders or checks. Hell, you can even give a discount to cash/check/money order buyers. I don't deal with people who want me to add Paypal fees because they've already proven they don't know how online trading works.

[usagi_tetsu]

That's not how it works at all. You claim that Paypal passes on the credit card fees as part of their price - well, pass along the Paypal fees as part of your price. If you don't want to lose money via Paypal, just add the extra buck or so to your posted price and stop violating your Paypal contract. You don't have to accept Paypal, but if you want to, you pay. I don't pass along Paypal fees to my buyers because I don't feel like waiting for money orders or checks. Hell, you can even give a discount to cash/check/money order buyers. I don't deal with people who want me to add Paypal fees because they've already proven they don't know how online trading works.

Thanks for repeating what I said and reinforcing my argument. Now if we can only get the rest of the internet chanting my rant, I for one will at least be happier. =D

[ThePixelGuru]

Thanks for repeating what I said and reinforcing my argument. Now if we can only get the rest of the internet chanting my rant, I for one will at least be happier. =D
Ah, I missed that part about discounting payments rather than passing on fees. Sorry I jumped on it, then, people asking the buyer for Paypal fees is kind of a pet peeve of mine as far as online trading goes.

[usagi_tetsu]

Ah, I missed that part about discounting payments rather than passing on fees. Sorry I jumped on it, then, people asking the buyer for Paypal fees is kind of a pet peeve of mine as far as online trading goes.

S'okay, I figured you were in a hurry and didn't read it fully. *shrug* Happens to the best of us.

[JesseB]

I post rules...

They make sense though. If it makes you not want to do business with me then that is perfectly fine I would rather my stuff go to someone mature than someone who is going to whine like a baby becuase someone wants to conduct a transaction in a certain way.


I mark up my guns to include paypal and shipping fees too
I dont post a price and then say oh yeah by the way you need to pay the fees and shipping and my gas money to get to the post office.
Unless paypal is from a credit card source which is a pet peeve of mine because that's an extra unaccounted for percentage.

All you gotta do is click back on your browser if you don't like someone's rules this thread is unneccesary whining.

[ThePixelGuru]

All you gotta do is click back on your browser if you don't like someone's rules this thread is unneccesary whining.
Well, some rules are a real joke. I post certain ones, but I also let out a sigh everytime I see someone with no feedback who posts "by posting here you agree to ship first i don't ship first ever!!!111one!!1!"

[blake20]

I only buy paintball gear from people on AO :headbang: So far I have had only great experiences with everyone here, regardless of what rules they put in their post. I have done paypal and MO and not a problem one. As for other forums I can't say I have had as good of an experience as here. So props to AO :clap: just my $0.02

[JesseB]

Well, some rules are a real joke. I post certain ones, but I also let out a sigh everytime I see someone with no feedback who posts "by posting here you agree to ship first i don't ship first ever!!!111one!!1!"

Buyer Beware.

I don't think I have a feedback thread... But then again I don't do as much buying and selling as most. I will let my join date and post count along with the fact that I don't have a bad feedback thread speak for my character I guess.

[Lohman446]

It depends with what attitude the rules are written. If I read "under no circumstance" I generally click out even though I have no problem shipping first.

[ThePixelGuru]

Buyer Beware.

I don't think I have a feedback thread... But then again I don't do as much buying and selling as most. I will let my join date and post count along with the fact that I don't have a bad feedback thread speak for my character I guess.
Oh, I wasn't attacking you by any means, just mentioning the kinds of rules that people tend to think are dumb. Often you get kiddies on PBN or the like who seem to think that they're more reputable than everyone else despite joining the forum yesterday.

[ikfube]

HaHa at the original poster :nono: . Who you think you are to tell me what rules I can't put in my post.

[Hook]

HaHa at the original poster :nono: . Who you think you are to tell me what rules I can't put in my post.
Oh no you didn't!

[punkncat]

Oh no you didn't!

He did.

I like this guy already. ;)

[Lohman446]

HaHa at the original poster :nono: . Who you think you are to tell me what rules I can't put in my post.


That would be a potential buyer.

Hint: I'm not some 15 year old kid who is going to have to sell off half of my stuff to buy whatever it is you have for sale. If I want what you have for sale there is a good chance you are going to have money for it today. However, if I read some stupid rule that comes off as arrogant, I'll buy it elsewhere.

[maddboy32]

HaHa at the original poster :nono: . Who you think you are to tell me what rules I can't put in my post.
maybe thats not a great post seeing that you've got less than 10 right now. ;)


anyway, my two cents on this is:
there will always be a fine line as to someone posting their own rules and abiding by the set rules. and there will always be those that didn't or don't know any better.

informing people of their incompetence to follow the rules should be done in a positive manner. no one likes to be indirectly called a retard on their own thread.

like Beemer said "We cant see it all so if you see the crap in any forum, Please use the report button and state the reason." :cheers: to that!!

remember, YOUR not a moderator, but you CAN be polite and "ask for a price" (i think the most commonly broken rule).


setting your own rules........ well i think they should be more like guidelines to help your buyer be more informed. there is no-where in the Automags.org rules saying that you can't do this. but, with that being said, you still have to abide by the "rules" no-matter what you want to put in your thread.

ok,ok my wife is knocking me off my soap box................. :)

[smoke63b]

For me it's just a couple of things that make me leave a sale thread.

1. Lording your "rules" over your potential customers is just bad business. You're asking me to support you by buying your stuff while acting like an arrogant prick. That means that as an adult I will take my cash elsewhere. Like someone above me said, I don't need to get the ok from my mom or sell all of my current guns to buy your gun. I can easily go elsewhere and customer service is worth more money to me.

2. I think we can all agree that posting a few rules would be completely ok as long as stupidity doesn't reign supreme. You post rules acting like you're the supreme commander of the paintball gear market and you can keep your stuff.


Saying stuff like; I only ship in the lower 48 or, No trades please is totally fine. Saying stuff like; I WILL NEVAR SHEP FIRST!!11!! or MY THREAD MY RULES! will just get you ignored by the folks that actually have their own money to spend...


Edited to say:

I've bought several things from AO members in my short time back into paintball over the last couple of weeks and had amazing success and dealt with great folks. I tried to just inquire about 2 or 3 things over at PBN and had downright ridiculous experiences. One kid pm'd me back with such gibberish that I couldn't even tell what it was he was trying to convey to me so I just ignored the rest of it. Another kid over there (i hope they were kids at least and not adults yikes) actually typed about a full page of HAHAHAHAH all the way down the PM because I asked him if he was selling a gun WITH a tank or just a tank by itself. I asked because the tank was easily listed for DOUBLE what it was worth used and the gun was some no name marker. Needless to say I will not even attempt to purchase anything over there at PBN. It's mind numbing to even try and read anything on that forum.

[ikfube]

to many do not read rules to ask for trades when seller say no trades in bold letters. you may not be kid but there are there. this is paintball and ages have gotten less over the years. maybe buyer is tired of saying no again and again after already said first.